My Review of the Remington PSS


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LevelHead
December 29, 2002, 10:11 PM
Check it out - I welcome any and all comments.

LevelHead's PSS Review (http://www.gad.net/Shooting/LevelHead/PSS/)

Thanks,

LevelHead

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cratz2
December 29, 2002, 10:22 PM
I certainly can't disagree with your comments as they are your findings and your opinion. But the comments about your trigger finger falling too far away from the grip can not be directed at Remington... only at yourself. You surely tried the gun in the shop and made the decision to buy it anyway.

I've found mine (in 223) to be as accurate as any of my other rifles. I used the factory stock and am quite happy with it. I do find that I keep my thumb on the right side of the grip as opposed to wraping it around the grip. My trigger was very good out of the box. Best I've ever seen on a Remington in the past 7 or 8 years. I do think the $700-$720 seems a bit high but I was willing to pay it as were many others. For the fit and finish, I can't really say mine was good but there weren't nearly as many dings through the finish as were on yours.

Good for posting the review. It is always a good thing to hear negative commends and findings in addition to the people that are overly happy with their purchase.

Wakal
December 29, 2002, 10:25 PM
Well worded with very nice pictures...I'm amazed at how far the 700's have fallen! Did you contact Remington about your wonderful experience with what is purported to be their flagship rifle?




Alex

J Scott
December 29, 2002, 10:32 PM
LevelHead,

Your initial quality or lack thereof appears to be quite common with Remington these days...however, my 2 are extremely accurate.

I have a 700VS and a LTR. Cosmetically speaking mine were fine.
But both did require a trip to the gunsmith to get them to their peak performance. (Trigger, Bed and Crown).

Anyway, good luck with your project and keep us posted.

J Scott

Gewehr98
December 29, 2002, 10:54 PM
The several 700 PSS rifles I've handled and shot, including the one I bought, haven't had the problems yours did.
Same goes for the 700 LTR.


Then again, I didn't buy a 700 PSS just to slap it into a McMillan tactical stock. That's the wrong approach. You should've bought the 700 VS, or 700 VLS, if you were just going to get rid of the stock, and save yourself the scratch. Why? One of the most poorly-kept secrets in the precision rifle world: They're all the same barreled action. Honest. Take a 700 Varmint, slap it into an H-S Precision Police stock, and you have a 700PSS. That, and matte bluing as opposed to parkerizing, are the ONLY difference. Well, that and a hundred dollars or so.

Now, the big question - Once the cosmetics pissed you off, how did it shoot?

If you have a 700 PSS, and I do, see rifle below, then you should have no problem generating cold-bore groups like the one below the rifle. Even if it does have a nicked finish, or missing paint on a stock that wasn't going to stay on the gun anyway.
:rolleyes:

http://mauser98.com/700PSScap.jpg

http://mauser98.com/pssgroup.JPG

PUMC_TomG
December 29, 2002, 11:50 PM
Gewehr98...

you are right across the causeway from me... just thought I'd say hey...

Is the KSC range open to the general public still??? I haven't tried to attend post Sept. 11... didn't know if they'd be cracking down on firearms up there or not seeing as it is soo close to a "target" or what have you.

We should shoot before I go back to school...

Anyway, howdy ho neighbor!:)

Soap
December 30, 2002, 12:13 AM
The reason why you are having troubles with the trigger reach is because you are holding the rifle in an odd manner.

The problems with my recently manufactured 700P:

-The stock is slightly misaligned as the barrel lies slightly to the left in the stock. This is evidenced by the fact that the gap in the stock's barrel channel is greater on the right side. Suprisingly, this hasn't led to an adverse effect on accuracy...yet.

-The floorplate is poo-poo. The pin that holds the floorplate onto the magazine/triggerguard is very loose.

That said, the accuracy and feel of the rifle is excellent. I can't wait to do some summer varmint hunting with this rig.

762x51
December 30, 2002, 09:38 AM
Not a very good "review". All you did was open the box and report what you saw. What about how it shoots?

craigz
December 30, 2002, 10:50 AM
Mag release? I thought they didn't make the 700P with a detachable mag anymore?

cola8d8
December 30, 2002, 11:44 AM
Are you going to sell the factory PSS stock when the new one comes?

Watch-Six
December 30, 2002, 01:53 PM
Sorry you are not pleased with your PSS. I have owned two and they both were excellent rifles. However, both of them were purchased a few years ago. I still have one in 223, and I only sold my 308 to finance a custom rifle. I would not have chosen to put more money into it without actually shooting it. Maybe you did try it out. How did it shoot? I hope that you like it better with the McMillan stock. Best. Watch-Six

cratz2
December 30, 2002, 04:41 PM
Originally posted by cola8d8
Are you going to sell the factory PSS stock when the new one comes?

I was wondering the same thing but didn't want to ask... ;)

Gewehr98
December 30, 2002, 05:51 PM
And put it on a 700 Varmint. Chipped paint or not. :D

TomG, yes, they really cranked up security at KARS Park. So much so, that I am no longer a rangemaster there effective on New Year's Day. Only KSC and NASA badged people will be allowed to have park passes from that day on. Everybody else will have to be sponsored onto the facility. :(

s64woody
December 30, 2002, 06:14 PM
One of the misconceptions here, and at other sites, concerning the pss vice the vss. There is a difference between the two. When you buy a pss you get a 1-12 twist barrel. A vss has a 1-10 twist barrel I believe. My pss has the 1-12, but if I could do it again I would get the vss, because the 1-10 is better for heavier bullets. I suspect that when observers say they are the same barrelled action, they mean visually.

Gewehr98
December 30, 2002, 06:19 PM
I started my comparison between the two .308 rifles back in 1997. The ones I worked with both had the same twist rate. Remington confirmed their little "secret" in a phone call, they were the same barreled actions. This has been reconfirmed on such places as snipercountry.com, etc.

Don't forget, for a while there the 700 PSS did use a 5R barrel, so it's possible something different did get screwed into the 700 receiver.

s64woody
December 30, 2002, 06:36 PM
Gewehr98: I can only wish that it had a 5r.....in my best dreams. got zero history on what was done in the past with twist rates in the pss. mine is 1-12, as well as one other that I deal with. Most current info that I have is that the vm't stuff from remington used 1-10 at this point. When they became different, if they were the same, I do not know.

s64woody
December 30, 2002, 06:42 PM
Gewehr98: also forgot to mention that I have been following the info from snipercountry, and was startled to find that some of it was off the mark. I suspect that the reason is a change recently, as I tend to accept data from a lot of the lurkers there. A high end gunsmith that works on Pss tactical stuff in the Puget Sound area recently told me that he has never seen anything other than 1-12 barrels on a PSS. Why they put this twist rate on the PSS, and the quicker twist rate on a rifle expecting to shoot lighter bullets in it's mission is beyond me out

762x51
December 30, 2002, 07:28 PM
Current twist on the 700VS and 700P are 1-12. I have a 1999 700P that is a 1-12. I believe only the early model 700PSS had a 1-10.

LevelHead
December 30, 2002, 08:36 PM
Thanks all for your input.

The PSS Stock is already sold. That's partly how I'm funding the McMillan.

As for buying a VSS I knew the option was there and just opted for the PSS. LCCDI - you know how it goes. I guess I'm guilty of getting PSS fever.

As for my finger position - good catch. I don't hold a rifle that way normally - that position is a result of me holding the rifle while trying to take a picture at the same time. :) In regards to me holding it in the store - you're right I could have declined it but knew I was going to swap the stock. I got damn near $200 for the stock so I'm not all that upset about it anymore. I still maintain that the grip is uncomfortable, and yes I know this is a personal preference.

My plan at this point is to enjoy getting this rifle up to snuff. If in the end I like it I'll keep it. If not I'll sell the end result and put that money towards a Sako.

Hey it's all fun as long as it's firearms related. I'm hoping this gun really shoots.

Like I said at this point I'm over my problems with the appearance of the gun. Once I get the McMillan mounted and the Mark IV on there I'm going to have a blast shooting some groups. I love buying stuff so for now I enjoy buying parts.

LevelHead

Nando Aqui
December 30, 2002, 09:53 PM
Sorry about your experiences - I bought mine in August 2002 and it does not even sound like the same rifle as yours. I liked mine as it came right out of the box, and it looked... well, like new every where - no blemishes!

To my 700 PSS I added a Versa-Pod bipod (don't like the springs of others) and a Simmons Aetec 3.8-12X44 WA AO IR scope.

With Portuguese surplus it will shoot about 1-1/4 MOA 4-shot groups ...just for comparison's sake (*).

With Black Hills Moly Coated 168gr it will consistently shoot 3/4 MOA 4-shot groups from the bipod with no other support. [This is at least three holes touching, and the fourth almost touching, at worse.] One of the bench-rest experts (he really is one) at the range says I would get 1/2 MOA if I were to add a support at the back.

(*) My HK91 will shoot 2 MOA with the port ammo and my DSA SA58 about 1-1/2 MOA, all from their bipods. But these two rifles do only a tad better with the Black Hills ammo; they like the Portuguese alright (and so do I: $2.50 vs $15 / 20). On the other hand, the 700 PSS definitely does better with the Black Hills.

Hey - - shoot yours, you may like it after all.

Good luck and safe shooting!

Alex

cratz2
December 30, 2002, 10:07 PM
Well, I am completely happy with my PSS, I admit that there were several dings. Silver visible on the action just in front of the bolt, on the front most portion of the side of the bolt, just in front of the safety. And finish imperfections on the top of the barrel in two or three places.

Doesn't bother me really. But as I said on another thread commenting on my new $350 Howa, it's a shame that my $350 gun came out in 100% condition while the $680 gun was in about 97% out of the box. And I watched the dealer cut the box open and it was never handled in the shop prior to shop owner and me.

s64woody
December 31, 2002, 04:19 PM
Gewehr98: Yep, a little research and I find that the Remington web site claims that the vam't and the BDL both have the same 1-12 twist rate, but the website does not mention the PSS. The only mention of a different rate is as an option on the 40X. Hmmm!
woody

cola8d8
December 31, 2002, 04:41 PM
you can get the info at www.remingtonle.com

Gewehr98
December 31, 2002, 09:25 PM
Knew that info was somewhere out there.

That Remington Law Enforcement website says the 700 LTR and 700 Police both run 1-12" twist in their .308 Winchester guns.

Which is basically what Big Green told me years ago when I did my own unofficial comparison between the 700 Varmint and 700 PSS.

BusMaster007
December 31, 2002, 11:13 PM
My 700 Police in .308 was perfect right out of the box.
I did change the stock to a Hogue, which was intended from the get-go. I have the original stock for future use. Everything else is all Remington and fine as it is. Accurate, reliable, just what I wanted.
Have fun making yours what you want it to be.

TargetShooter2
January 1, 2003, 12:55 AM
Greetings

LevelHead

I can agree on the Sako rifles , very nice on fit & finish and they shoot just as good as they look, On the Remmy's i have had one out of the five that i have owned that was alittle banged up from the box but it shot under a inch though , most of my rifles that i keep end up getting a cammo paint job then a scratch/chip doesnt mean nothing to me then , maybe in time i will paint the Sako

TS2


http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid31/p8c157d253b047d9053683eb81c3c42cf/fd49767e.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid42/pfbf0edddfd349537d4d12fc2e3f708bf/fcee0d4f.jpg

s64woody
January 1, 2003, 02:35 AM
Gewehr98: My PSS has been a learning experience from day one. Probably spent over 1000 rounds trying to get the performance out of it that I have heard was possible. To date 168 gr. MK or heavier will not stabilize at ranges over about 100 yards. The group size just blows up. Tried 155 palmas and the thing loves them. Oh well, just have to accept lighter bullets, I suppose. Other than that item it is one lovely piece of work. I suppose it is a work in progress. woody

s64woody
January 1, 2003, 02:39 AM
targetshooter2:

Nice looking piece. I noticed the rings, what are they? They definitely look Marine proof. I think I want something similar. woody

LevelHead
January 1, 2003, 11:29 AM
I may be speaking out of turn but they look like Badger Ordnance Max and Max 50 rings. The Max rings are exactly what I want for my PSS.

-LevelHead-

Skullboy
January 1, 2003, 01:02 PM
I bought one of the First edition 700PSS-DMs, back in 1996.Mine came out of the box in 100% condition(from what I here now, that was pretty lucky).
Once I broke it in and found a couple of good loads, it will consistenly shoot 1/2" MOA (Thats when I'm doing my parts).The best it has shot is a 5 round group that could be covered by a quarter, at 300 meters, dead center V-Bull, at our 1996 Sniper Championships.The only things I've done to mine is some trigger work, a Tactical bolt handle,and swap the stock for the AICS I kit.
http://www.printroom.com/_vti_bin/ViewImage.dll?userid=Skullboy&album_id=121643&image_id=0&param=45542
http://www.printroom.com/_vti_bin/ViewImage.dll?userid=Skullboy&album_id=121643&image_id=2&param=32657
http://www.printroom.com/_vti_bin/ViewImage.dll?userid=Skullboy&album_id=121643&image_id=4&param=93143

SKBY.

Gewehr98
January 1, 2003, 01:53 PM
My PSS does great with them. 168gr MatchKings don't group as tightly, I need to experiment more with their loading to see if I can get them to settle down.

Something I did find that shoots remarkably well in my 700 PSS is those 148gr FN-FAL FMJBT bullets one buys bulk from places like Wideners. I sort them by weight on a digital scale, then moly-lube them in my tumbler before loading. I haven't shot them past 500 yards, but they will, surprise, surprise, stay inside 1/2 MOA all the way out that far.

Funny thing is, I just bought a bunch of them to fire in my Beretta BM-59. On a whim I fired some of my BM-59 handloads in both my M14NM and 700 PSS, not expecting much in the way of accuracy. Was I ever wrong!

Robby from Long Island
January 1, 2003, 02:28 PM
Bought my 700PSS ten years ago. It came NIB in perfect condition.

The only thing I had done to improve it was have the trigger re-worked by a competent gunsmith. As I bought mine in .223, it makes an excellent varmint rifle.

Safe shooting.

LevelHead
January 1, 2003, 06:34 PM
Skullboy - sweet case! You do that yourself?

Skullboy
January 1, 2003, 06:48 PM
LevelHead, Yup, custom cut it myself.Replaced the original foam with 2 black one inch thick Ensolite foam sheets contact cemented together.Laid the rifle in the center, and placed all the accessories around it and traced their outlines and cut away.Had to be careful not to cut through the second layer when cutting out the accessories.Was originally cut for the PSS stock, so I had to re-cut and patch up the foam to fit the A.I. stock and mags.I find the ensolite foam way better for doing this type of modifaction as it holds its shape better,its easier to cut, and stronger(doesn't tear as easy) as the origina foam.


Thx. SKBY.

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