BUTTERFLY KNIVES who makes a good one?


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Jedi_7.62
March 15, 2003, 08:27 PM
Several years ago I had a butterfly that I really liked but over the years I have lost it. I would be interested in getting a new one again but I can't find one for sale that isn't a POS.

I'm uneasy about ordering on line since I can't physically inspect the knife but if the company was reputable enough I may consider.

Any suggestions???

Thanks,

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Kevlarman
March 15, 2003, 09:23 PM
Benchmade! :D

Good luck finding one for cheap though.

45R
March 16, 2003, 01:41 AM
Benchmade makes an awesome balisong as well as Microtechs Tachyon

Spark
March 16, 2003, 02:30 AM
Tachyon is gone bro - Microtech discontinued it about 5 months ago. It's been replaced by the Dragonfly.

The question is, do you want a toy, or a solid flipper? Do you want a weapon, or an art piece? A collectible, or everyday piece.

Personally, the SWAT Butterfly's were my favorite, but they have been disocntinued and are hard to come by these days. Darrel Ralph makes some Venturi's that are great, but are quite pricey. I haven't played with the 29Knives models, but I've heard lots of good things about them.

The Dragonfly isn't bad, and certainly isn't expensive, but my suggestion is going to be to wait for the upcoming Benchmade 42SS with stainless steel handles. Nice and hefty, and comfortable to flip.

Oh, and if you feel like making your own, check out the KnifeKit's Typhoon.

IRONFIST
March 16, 2003, 06:40 AM
Benchmade for me as well, please. I have used and abused mine for years. It is so old and worn out its really a disgrace, but man is it buttery smooth. I keep saying i'm gonna pony up the cash and get another but it always gets put off till tomorrow.

Michael in Sandy, OR

El Tejon
March 16, 2003, 08:16 AM
Uhhh, why don't you go to the "Indy 1500 Gun & Knife Show" at the fairgrounds on the 38th Street this weekend???

45R
March 16, 2003, 12:43 PM
Ironfist-
If you send it back to Benchmade, they will recondition your balisong for you. I've sent back knives to be reconditioned and they have come back in NIB condition. :D

Spark-
I had no idea that MT cancelled the Tachyon!!!:what: Thats a wonderful blade! Its too bad. I'm going to have to find one!

gryphon
March 16, 2003, 07:51 PM
Benchmade.

Jedi_7.62
March 16, 2003, 10:41 PM
I've checked out a few benchmades they have a great rep of course, however they are a bit pricey for me. ($100 + )

I'm looking for every day use/ back up weapon.

$50 or so is more the range I had in mind.
Is this hoping for too much?

45R
March 16, 2003, 11:04 PM
If I was going to use a balisong as an EDC, I would buy top of the line. The cheap ones fall apart too fast.

hso
March 16, 2003, 11:17 PM
From U.S. manufactured knives you can start with Microtech, go to Benchmade, and from there to Bear to get to your price.

Of course you could build your own! http://knifekits.com/store/s-pages/kk_store_1mainframe.htm?kk_products_folderkits_main.htm~smain

Jedi_7.62
March 17, 2003, 11:37 PM
Are the knives from BEAR any good?

I found a damascus for about $50.

This is a whole lot cheaper than benchmade or microtech $100- $170.

Makes me wonder if it is any good or is it descent and the others are just that magnificent.

I'd rather stick w/ my Spyderco than spend $50 on a POS.

brownie0486
March 18, 2003, 08:50 AM
I have never seen a reason to ever consider carrying a balisong/butterfly knife.

Even the high end types are too slow to draw and get into the ready. If you need to access a knife defensively you need it in your hand and available for use NOW.

Anything that requires me to make several movements before the blade is available to defend is taking too much time. Fine motor skills are out the window most likely and the fingers manipulating the handles and securing the handles with the lock will probably not be optimum.

There has been a fascination with these types of knives ever since Westside Story appeared on the big screen. Perhaps back then they were actually preferred as most knives were not capable of being locked open but with todays array of Tacticool folders one can certainly make a better choice of a defensive tool.

Others will respond that they can get them into play quite quickly and I'm sure thats the case with practice. They still require too much manipulation once accessed to be dependable when the pucker factor reaches the 9-10 range and you need to rely on gross motor skills to get you out of the mess you find yourself in.

"take it out [ access it ]; unlock the handles with your finger/fingers; flick the wrist exposing the blade while the handles are manipulated back together; lock the handles; and then you are ready to use your knife"?

All this can be done in a short amount of time by practiced individuals. Take into account the pucker factor and things can fall apart quite rapidly. Miss the unlocking of the handles [ fumble it ], get jammed up where you can't flick the handles apart [ distance/time ] and you have not helped yourself save your *** by your decision to carry it in the first place.

Get a good folder and leave the "flash" to play and not your serious defensive needs.

Brownie

Spark
March 18, 2003, 11:23 PM
Same can be said about any firearm you carry. It's all a matter of practice practice practise.

Granted *I* wouldn't carry one for self defense, but I have enough practice that if I was going to need to use one in a hurry, I could get it open mighty quick. Nothing is 100% foolproof - not even my Emerson Commander, or a Spyderco Military - not even a fixed blade. There's always the murphy factor.

Kevin

brownie0486
March 19, 2003, 09:41 AM
A firearm would not need to have all the hand motion once presentation was complete to get into action.

Emerson commanders --not impressed lately with their QC and the wave is a crutch used by those who refuse to take the time to develop presentation skills with their chosen defensive folding knife. As a caveat, the wave is a solution for some who may be partially disabled and not capable of the manual dexterity needed to deploy the folder rapidly.

Spark stated "Nothing is 100% foolproof ". Thats why I state the less steps to access and deploy the folder under stress and time constraints the less can be left to chance and mistakes/bobbles in the attempt to deploy same.

Any of the comabt folders I have on me can be accessed/deployed instantly upon touching the closed folder on my pocket. The blade opens the instant the folder clears the pocket with the "Brownie Pop" I developed 10 years ago andMaster at Arms Keeting named upon seeing the technique.

Those who have trained with me and been trained by myself learn the technique quickly and then no longer need the thumb studs, spyderholes, opening disks etc.

Some of the folders have had those items removed from the blade as they actually slow the presentation of the folder by catching material on the way out of the pocket [ except the spyderholed knives of course ].

Brownie

Spark
March 20, 2003, 09:33 PM
And in a nutshell, what is this technique?

Soap
March 20, 2003, 09:42 PM
Brownie,

You've really peaked my curiousity as well. I've had trouble getting a regular folder in action faster (or more reliably) than the Wave. BTW- Don't worry about it, next time I'm in Boston we'll have to do lunch. If my next visit is going to be after my graduation in 5/04, do you do any private training sessions?

Jedi,

Most of the knives in your price range will literally fall apart.

Bruz
March 20, 2003, 11:57 PM
I do not know anything about this knife or company, but this was on the Bladeforums site... www.wowinc.com/boss-9.htm


"Brownie Pop" I developed 10 years ago

I think this is the second time I have seen you mention this, but have not seen a reply when asked what it is. Is it a secret or only taught to paying customers? Either way I think you have got many peoples interest, if you could enlighten us it would be appreciated...

brownie0486
March 21, 2003, 02:24 PM
Bruz spark, and Daniel Flory:

The technique works with most folders with some practice. Some knives do not lend themselves to it well at all, blade weight being a small factor in performing the "Brownie Pop".

It has to be shown to understand the nuances of how to get the blade to open upon leaving the pocket. I developed the technique over a decade ago [ necessity is the mother of all invention ].

Dan, next time you are in my area give me a heads up and we'll connect. Even if I don't have a class running then I can show you the "Brownie Pop" and a few good defensive moves with a blade[ the wall ].

I have one student now who has been training with me since last summer quite regularly with the knives, sticks, and unarmed stuff.

Once he had the "Brownie Pop" down he no longer needed the wave on his Emerson and switched knives. The "Pop" is faster and more sure as it does not rely on catching the wave at the back of the pocket on the draw stroke.

Most everyone who takes the defensive knife classes goes to the "Pop". Some can't seem to get it and it usually means they have a problem with an elbow or shoulder. There is no wrist action to deploy the knife from the pocket as some may be guessing.

To answer Bruz, I do show friends as well as students the "Pop". The only people in front of me to see it explaned are students and a few close friends.

Perhaps the student I have mentioned will chime in here after reading the thread and verify the technique is THE way to go.

Brownie

Bruz
March 21, 2003, 09:46 PM
verify the technique is THE way to go.

I believe you it is the way to go, I just want to know what it is! Inquiring minds and all...hopefully your student will chime in and at least give a brief step by step on what it involves. Doubt anyone can master it that way but at least I'll have a few fingers left to do the POP that I am losing trying to figure out a different way to open my knife! (That is if you need fingers to do the POP!). :scrutiny:

Spark
March 22, 2003, 12:34 AM
So is it magic, or what? It sounds a lot like the old fashioned inertial opening where you flick your wrist and the knife opens itself through centrifugal force.

If you are saying that:
The technique works with most folders with some practice. Some knives do not lend themselves to it well at all, blade weight being a small factor in performing the "Brownie Pop"., then it certainly sounds like you are now backpedalling on your original Any of the comabt folders I have on me can be accessed/deployed instantly upon touching the closed folder on my pocket. The blade opens the instant the folder clears the pocket with the "Brownie Pop" I developed 10 years ago andMaster at Arms Keeting named upon seeing the technique.

What works for "you" probably won't work for everyone else. If you can't even explain it in simple terms or a general concept, how foolproof can it be?

I'm eagerly looking forward to learning this new technique.

brownie0486
March 22, 2003, 08:25 AM
Spark,
I specifically stated the technique used no wrist action. There is centifugal force in the reverse.
Now that should get a few thinking.

I said any of the combat foldrs I have on me work. Thats because they do. I choose folders naturally that have the requirements in the design. The distinction here is I have been handed some cheaper folders that didn't work over the years due to pivot tention directly related to materials used in it's construction.

I said it worked with most folders. Mine all work just fine as thats one of the criteria in my decision process when purchasing/carrying a tactical folder.

If it didn't work for anyone else about 400 people would not be able to perform the "pop" who have been through the training classes, seen it, and then been able to reproduce it on their knives from the pocket.

I can explain it verbally but you would not be able to understand the nuances and physical aspects. If I tried to explain it and you could not perform it I think I wouold be hearing back from you that it didn't work.

Bruz: It requires initially pinching the knife with two fingers [ the index and thumb ] when being drawn until it clears the pocket.

If you want verification the "pop" works, I'll see if I can get my buddy [ and student ] to chime in here just to verify the validity of the technique.
I'm not sure how that will verify anything over a computer other than someone else has seen it, learned it and uses it but then I have already mentioned that.

BTW--Flipping/flicking the knife open is dangerous in close as a good defensive person can stop the attack by trapping the hand and thereby stop the opening of your blade.

Brownie

Bruz
March 22, 2003, 01:31 PM
Brownie, I assure you I believe it works which is why I am beating this potentially dead equine...



It requires initially pinching the knife with two fingers [ the index and thumb ] when being drawn until it clears the pocket.

Progress...does one grasp the blade or the scales? Is the blade pointed up or down prior to the POP? :confused:



There is centifugal force in the reverse.

Hmmm, the opposite of centrifugal force would be a compression? Can one compress the blade into the frame and have it POP out? :scrutiny:


If you would prefer not having this on the forum I would appreciate a e-mail...once I get subject in my little mind I can not get it out until the "problem" is solved! :banghead:

brownie0486
March 22, 2003, 02:01 PM
Check your PM Bruz

Brownie

Bruz
March 22, 2003, 03:21 PM
Brownie...POP! :what:

brownie0486
March 22, 2003, 05:07 PM
Got it down?
Brownie

Drjones
March 22, 2003, 06:19 PM
Ooooooookay folks, back ON topic:

Jedi:

Seriously man, just save a little longer, or just bite the bullet and spend the money for a Benchmade balisong or better.

Honestly, BM is basically the cheapest QUALITY balisong you will find.

ANYTHING less expensive than a BM is basically a POS.

PERIOD.

I was going to chime in on BM's earlier, but others replied first.

I speak up now because I don't want you to waste your money.

You seem like a guy who can appreciate quality.

As such, you should not buy a balisong less expensive than a BM.

I have a BM 42s, and it is a great knife all the way around.

Also in that price range is the SWAT bali, which is supposed to be quite a sweet knife.

And of course, you can spend far more than just the $100 or so for a BM, and get a Darrel Ralph or something.

Anyhow, again, I just want to stress that unless you want a cheap piece of metal that is shaped like a balisong, GET A BENCHMADE.


Drjones

cold
March 22, 2003, 08:41 PM
Here I am! I'm the 'student' Brownie is refering to. I've worked (trained) with Brownie on and off since last summer and have learned some really good shtuff. This guy is the real deal and not someone full of BS. The knives are great, but sticks are more fun. :cool: But I digress...

The POP: Brownie showing me how he presented his defensive folder by drawing really fast with the blade SNAPPING to the locked position. I mean a really hard lock, the kind that gets your attention. I said that's neat, I have a waved Mini Commander, watch this. He was still faster. Correct me if I'm wrong, but with the waved knife, I had to draw the knife to rear to execute the wave, then move forward for the presentation. Then I picked up a MOD Hornet and practiced the pop. Everyone says I can present the Hornet faster with a pop, than the Mini Commander with the wave. Here's why: The wave is two motions, to the rear, then forward to come to point. The pop is one motion forward and stop at point. There is no wrist flick, snap, or roll.

I'm not going to go into details of the method. If Brownie wants, he can share his knowledge as he is the instructor, for I am only the 'student'. All I can say is it is fast without relying on waves, studs, wheels, or holes. It works going forward to point, or moving back as in a retention position.

Mike

PS: I think further discussion deserves it's own thread.

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