What are the non-gun self defense alternatives?


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chaim
March 26, 2003, 07:25 PM
Hmmm, you know here, most recently in a thread by new member Kaxter, and often at the old TFL you can see threads something along the lines of "I don't live in a CCW state, should I carry anyway?". It has got me thinking, you see those all the time but there aren't often threads on the alternatives.

Many of us live in non-CCW states (or at least in states that are effectively non-CCW). Some live in CCW states but may want an alternative to a gun (maybe as a backup) on occasion.

So here is the "what should I carry if I don't live in a CCW state" thread.


Now lets be realistic, try to post ideas that can actually be reasonable. If you live in a non-CCW state what do you do? If you do live in a CCW state what do you use for those times that you decide not to carry a gun? If you always carry a gun do you have any non-gun backups? If not, then this is academic, again being reasonable what are some options?

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scottgun
March 26, 2003, 07:40 PM
Run.

Even if you have a CCW, running is always good option. Removing yourself from the threat maybe easier than removing the threat.

chaim
March 26, 2003, 07:48 PM
To answer my own question, here are some of my solutions:

I am too far out of shape to rely on any martial arts type training. Plus, it seems to me that many are as applicable to self defense as is PPC or some of the pistol games. They are more sport than self defense oriented anymore. Of course there are some classes that are geared towards hand-to-hand self defense that borrow from the various martial arts and many martial arts techniques can be useful but I am not currently involved in these (though I may consider them).

Primarily I do rely on tools:
-I carry a 3" Kershaw folder that is spring assisted for opening (you start the process but it is very fast due to spring assistance, it is legally not considered a switchblade). It cost about $40 at Bass Pro Shops.

-I sometimes also carry a multi-tool that, while not meant for SD use, could if needed be pressed into service (the knife on it is short but sharp). Cost $5-20.

-Sometimes I carry pepper spray (I have two dispensers- one that fits in a pocket and has a nice little key chain on the end, the other has a belt clip and is very comfortable there and holds more than the pocket spray). I used to carry pepper spray all the time but I've lately been a bit remiss. Costs, usually around $10-15.

-I work in the schools so I can't always carry something (all weapons are illegal on school grounds here). However, it is possible to at least have something useful in the car that is dual use (a screwdriver, stout umbrella and a hammer are my most likely options). Costs, vary greatly (my nice and very stout umbrella was about $40-50, the screwdriver and hammer are only a few bucks).

-I recently bought a machete (about 3' long) as a camping tool that it seems to me could come in handy as a backup for home defense (thus I've started keeping it by my bed) and it comes in a nice scabbard (I guess being a tool it is a sheath) to protect the blade so I suppose it could also be kept in a car for defense against an attacker when you leave or are going to your car. Best off it only cost a few bucks (about $7 or 8).

-I am considering a camp axe or hatchet (a short 6" long backpacking axe may be ideal) to keep in my car to protect against carjacking. Costs, $15-30.

-I have a 4D cell Maglite in my car that could easily double as a weapon should I need it and have access to it (probably better for use as a HD backup). Cost, I don't remember but I think they are around $15-30.

Those are my options. I can think of many other possibilities- walking sticks, expanding batons, even hairspray in a woman's purse. What do you guys use? What would you use? What are you thinking about using?

spacemanspiff
March 26, 2003, 08:26 PM
911 dial-a-prayer? :eek:

Drizzt
March 26, 2003, 08:41 PM
Are you allowed to carry an Asp?

No, not the snake. Although that would be quite a deterrent.

megatronrules
March 26, 2003, 08:53 PM
Asp work nice. Running is my option though I cant run far.:(
There are martial arts and other forms of "unarmed" self defense. My brother has done Aikido and some other thing i cant spell or remember :D He can hurt someone very bad very fast if the are close enough to him. The problem is it takes daily practice and years to become good enough in any art to use it unders stress. Years dont help us now.
A small folding knife like a Spiderco Delica is a great choice. They are legal about everywhere. Pepper spray is another option to consider. There is one called Freeze. I think thats the name of it. I dont know if its available to the public. Corrections Officers here use it. I hear its nasty stuff. Good luck and lets hope you never need any of it :)

Hkmp5sd
March 26, 2003, 09:00 PM
Another vote for the ASP.

Tommy Gunn
March 26, 2003, 09:22 PM
Go to the pawnshops and look for a blackjack or asp. Knives are good too.

pax
March 26, 2003, 09:28 PM
Excellent questions, and good answers all around.

See the forum titled, "Non Firearms Weapons"? That's where this goes, so I'll move it down there for you. :)

pax

To err is human but to really foul up requires a computer. -- Paul Erlich

CWL
March 26, 2003, 09:36 PM
Most conventional carries:

Blade
Pepperspray
Surefire/Maglight

Dogs are good.

Try plastic Kerambit by Kelly Worden

Sjambok

Japanese Bokken (faster than baseball bat & better contact surface -probably not legal)

Entrenching tool in trunk of car. This is easier to employ than a knife, has heft and will do more damage than a knife. Multiple surfaces and can be used to defend/block and keep distance better than a knife. Also can destroy a dog. -little known favorite weapon of WWII.

brownie0486
March 26, 2003, 09:49 PM
Ashtray, Handset of phone, Phone itself, Rock, Stick, Chair, curtain rod, steel toe'd shoe, shoelaces, socks filled with dirt/and or rocks, belt, belt buckle [ depends on the buckle as to how effective you can be ], lamp, stapler, carjack, tire iron, broom, steel or wooden ruler, coffee mug, bandana, handkerchief, and certainly not the last in a long list but the most important of all which is your mind.

With your wits about you at all times you have "weapons of opportunity" or "unconventional weapons" to choose from.

You are never without the means to defend yourself if you have prepared yourself for the possibles. If you haven't practiced and adhered to the "colors of awareness" you will likely get spanked.

Brownie

kannonfyre
March 26, 2003, 10:18 PM
No civilian may carry a gun in my country so I'm always stuck with hand weapons and the like. This being the case, I carry with the threat level in mind.

If discretion is needed or I don't expect violence then I'd carry
pepper foam and a tactical folder/kubotan.

If I'm going through a rough part of town then I'd pack a telescopic baton and OC spray.

Lastly, If I'm heading through the shanty towns/slums or going through lawless areas then a can of pepper foam and a fixed blade fighting knife is in order.

Of course, training cannot be neglected. Go for a pepper spray course if you can find it and then take kali or arnis/escrima lessons to gain a foundation is weaponscraft for blades/sticks.

Wilhelm
March 26, 2003, 10:29 PM
I train 2 days a week Brazilian Jiu Jitsu 2-3 days a week Muay Thai. Now that being said if confronted with more then one opponent or an opponent with a weapon I would rather leave then rely on my H2H. There for I carry on my person a Spyderco Police model in my pocket and a 3' chain that goes to my wallet. While I have been forbidden from brining my knife to certain establishments I have very very rarley been disallowed my wallet chain. I am a contractor so I carry a 120z framing hammer in my truck if needed. From time to time I carry my pistol (usually a 9000S). Unless confronted by a Kali guru I feel my chain is just fine for any non firearm situation I may encounter on the street.




Wilhelm

Jack19
March 27, 2003, 07:44 AM
Fox Pepper Spray..the best on the market....gives you a distance alternative...
http://www.selfdefenseproducts.com/images/pepper/spraymain1.jpg

Surefire with a TID....blinding light and pain all rolled into one...
http://www.gggaz.com/images/tid.jpg

280PLUS
March 27, 2003, 08:39 AM
whats an asp?

for what it's worth,,,

a big set of keys on a long keychain upside the head, I have an oversized safety pin for a keychain, I stood right in front of a state trooper one time holding this in my hand while he's asking if I have weapons and I'm saying no. Only later did I remember that yes in fact, that pin is a weapon and he didn't pick up on it. I had no intentions of harming him so the point was essentially non- existent, but if I was somebody else who was not such a nice guy,,,

a thumb in an eye

punch in the adams apple

a hard forward/upward palm in the nose is one of the most effective and easiest to achieve

the groin is too easy to miss

after all of the above, run lik h***

basic self defense for the average ones

m

D.W. Drang
March 28, 2003, 02:27 PM
In general, the reply is that what you carry for defense if, for some reason, you can't carry a concealed firearm depends on where you are: What's legal? In some places it's ilegal for citizens to carry OC spray! In WA it is illegal to carry a knife "for the purpose of fighting", which is kinda ambiguous...

My only point of disagreement with 280PLUS is that "Run like H***" should be the first option, if available.

Soap
March 28, 2003, 03:42 PM
Brownie's post says volumes about killer instinct. I would never want to fight a guy that suggests using a bandana to put the hurt on an attacker! :D

If I had my options though, I would carry a 21" ASP and two knives or just three knives. As for the knives, I would get rid of the Kershaw assisted opener. Its a good knife but do you want to worry about getting to that tiny safety when someone is on top of you?

Plus I would be in shape enough that I could run relatively long distances in a short amount of time. Far too many people have all this cool gear but they can't even sprint 200 yards without having a coronary.

ruger357
March 28, 2003, 03:51 PM
Jack19
Where did you get the TID for the E2E?

Soap
March 28, 2003, 03:58 PM
ruger357-

Here's just two places where you can get one:

http://www.gggaz.com/products/tid.php

http://www.onestopknifeshop.com/store/ggg-tactical-impact-device.html

brownie0486
March 28, 2003, 04:27 PM
A big bandana snapped like a locker room towel to the face, eyes, neck seems to grab the attention of most people.

Remember how we snapped each other in the showers, and how much it hurt? Could put an eye out asap and the accuracy wasn't something we had to train on, it was a few snaps and you had it down.

Now, take that same bandana and sew a small ball bearing into one of the corners. Carry the bandana folded over between your belt and pants. Looks cool in some sections of the country and it you go to snapping that thing on someone it will break bones in the face, pluck an eye out, and as a last resort there are tehcniques to trap incoming limbs to redirect their energy and turn their a#$ around.

A few quarters, anything with a little weight can be sewn into the corner of the bandana and it all works the same way.

If you know how to use one as a defensive tool they are subtle and draw no attention whatsoever until you start cranking people.

Brownie

MrAcheson
March 28, 2003, 04:56 PM
Buy and wear shoes you can run in. Get in good enough shape to run well. What is the first rule in a gunfight? Bring a gun. If that isn't possible, then do your damnedest not to get in that fight through awareness and active avoidence.

Outside of contact range (and even within it depending on the individuals involved) a firearm trumps everything. Most thugs carry handguns and don't train so they cant shoot well. Open up the distance and keep it open. Your best self defense tools are likely to be your head and your feet.

Bonker
March 28, 2003, 05:58 PM
Avoid danger in the first place. Your brain is the greatest weapon in any arsenal!

Flee! Run! Second best weapon is you can do it, although statistics favor a gun over running.

As far a real weapons, the best one is the one that you feel comfortable with and the one that you will actually have with you when the poop hits the fan.
For example, a baseball bat is awesome, but completely useless if you don't carry it due to it's size.

My opinion is that any weapon I use besides a gun has the purpose of putting distance between me and my attacker so I can either flee or get to a gun.

brownie0486
March 28, 2003, 06:25 PM
You can run but you will likely die tired.

Getting shot in the back is not an alternative for me. Others mileage may vary.

Distance is key, of course, but if the distance is within their range to begin with you stand the risk of getting shot in the back as well.

I'd rather die trying to take him with me than get poked in the back. Training can negate some of their advantage. Trusting their marksmanship is bad is a great leap of faith.

I'd rather leave my fate more in my hands than others. And then you have the times when threatened where you have no place to run as well.
If that were your only plan of defense you would have no defense at all.

Unconventional weapons are around us contiuously.
Learn to recognize those items as such and the odds are not as drastically weighed against you.

Brownie

Kaxter
July 22, 2003, 11:36 PM
Wow, its been 2 months but im going to reply anyways:)

I carry an Emerson Specwar with me at all times. I was mad at myself when I first bought it because this specwar is not "waved" but I am now quite happy because brownie0486 thought me how to "brownie pop" the knife. I can get it open as fast as the waved ones. This is all I carry, and because OTB vetoed the CCW bill, I think I will be carrying it for a long time.

only1asterisk
July 23, 2003, 02:41 AM
I interpreted the thread starter as asking: "What can I carry to help me defend myself besides a gun?" When hauling @$$ is not an option:

1. Nothing

Defense Options

Bare Hands/Feet- Omnipresent (hopefully). Works well for some people, works better with some training. Less effective when the attacker is bigger, stronger, more skillful, better trained or is armed. Good likelihood of getting injured if facing armed attacker.

Environmental/Improvised Weapons: What you can get your hands on at the time; People have used all kinds of things, briefcases, firewood, golf clubs, bottles, chain, crowbars, you name it. Some of these things work fine for clobbering people, but are still dependent on size and strength to be truly effective. You are also leaning on luck (the item lying around when you need it; the attacker giving you the chance to grab it). Good likelihood of getting injured if facing armed attacker.

2. Knife

Disregarding possible legal issues, the knife is a easy weapon to carry always have on your person. It is much more effective than bare hands, and can be a very effective escape tool vs. unarmed attackers. Less dependent on strength than bare hands. Training is vital for effectiveness (less instinctive than bare hands). Require close proximity with the attacker (opposite of the goal of getting away). Good likelihood of getting injured if facing armed attacker.

3. Kuboton, mini-flashlight, self defense "tools",

All the detractors of a knife with reduced effectiveness. Are legal in some places that guns/knives are not. Not bashing them, the Kuboton wrist lock is a personal favorite of mine, but that is more of a control technique.

4. Electric stun guns, pepper spray

Useful escape devices. Independent of physical strength. Gives new meaning to spay and pray. Effectiveness varies. Maybe difficult/expensive to get quality equipment (some LE only) Taser and pepper spay extend the useful range a few feet. Training still required.

5. Batons, saps, larger flashlights, similar.

Batons and saps have legal issues is some places. IMHO better than all the above assuming some upper body strength and training.

5a. Tools, sporting goods.

Baseball bats, hockey sticks, golf clubs, tire irons, etc. Low key and bellow most peoples radar (in the proper environment).


All the above are inferior to a good handgun, but useful in some situations.


David

sm
July 23, 2003, 03:14 AM
Good Ideas So Far.

Its not legal for me to carry an ASP here.

Aside from SA and Distance, and many ideas/suggestions mentioned above...

I'm rarely seen without a ceramic coffee cup or glass container of tea, or soda, I just refill with water when original contents are empty people are just used to seeing me with one. Another habit, I don't drink, but my freinds that do "never" finish one...always seems to be at least one glass container near my plate...its never allowed to be removed.

I have an expired heavy gauge thick plastic parking lot card, about the size of a credit card. It must have 'rubbed itself' against a whetstone...it is very sharp , sometimes it finds its way out of my wallet and into my shirt pocket, back pocket, or a jacket pocket, depends on weather and dress.

I've had to spend some time in the hosptial , no CCW allowed, I have the above and usually a magazine...rolled tight...for when I head out to smoke.

I do know an antenna snatched off a vehicle comes in handy...the officer whom took report found the vehicle owner and presented my payment for replacement with apology.

Been working crosswords, still like sharp wood pencils...for some reason. Though I carry at least one real 'good' ballpoint.

Just those normal everyday things I'm used to being seen with and always handy...

Stay Low
July 27, 2003, 10:25 PM
280plus.......ASP=expandable baton.

abaddon
July 31, 2003, 02:44 AM
D.W. Drang,

Where does it say that carrying a knife "for fighting purposes" is illegal? I have looked all over the R.C.W. and found little or no mention of knives.

Jeff

NeveraVictimAgain
July 13, 2004, 08:35 PM
What's a TID? How much do those fancy flashlights cost? Can I buy Fox brand pepper spray through the mail?

THANKS!

Model520Fan
July 26, 2004, 03:03 AM
"What are the non-gun self defense alternatives? "

Just to keep things in perspective, let's not forget that one non-gun alternative is dying. Another is extended hospitalization, and emergence without all your present abilities and blessings.

If you have a gun, you might want to consider keeping it with you.

"If you live in a non-CCW state what do you do?"

I can't tell you what to do, but I can tell you what I did. When I lived in DC, I carried a gun all but one or two days of the four and half years I lived there.

If you fear the police more than you fear criminals, how do you tell the difference?

nomadboi
July 27, 2004, 03:53 PM
I'm not going to claim expertise, but I'd advise against carrying a knife for defense unless you know what you're doing with it- meaning real training. One of the more sobering things in my martial arts class was just seeing what someone can do to you with your own knife if you're not trained.

JShirley
July 27, 2004, 05:43 PM
Lots of things make good defensive tools...usually all around you.

A full water bottle carries a hell of a wallop, and is legal and welcome anywhere except where they sell drinks. One could also (depending on cap type) spray water in attacker's eyes, then follow up with something else, like the steel toes of your safety shoes...

Attitude and awareness are the most important parts to staying safe. Awareness will keep you away from danger, or give you the most warning if you cannot reasonably avoid. Attitude will carry you through.

Never give up!

Despite what some have said, running is just about the last option one should choose, because you have then placed the fray squarely into the physical challenge arena. If he's healthier/lucker than you, running just saps your strength to defend yourself.

If possible, one should avoid without ever having to devolve to running, and any running should be very short-range: that little burst of speed to make the bus pulling out, or dashing across the street *just* before that long line of traffic whizzes by, effectively halting pursuit for minutes.
John

ceestand
August 12, 2004, 01:10 AM
I'm told heavy electrical cable, aka "Mungo" makes for a decent weapon. I usually carry a knife, but security in NYC seems to be doubling everyday. So I'm heading down to the hardware store. There are plenty of electrical or plumbing related items that could be used effectively.

BTW, in NY (and maybe elsewhere) between weapons possesion and menacing type crimes, expect to be charged with a crime if you use anything other than your bare hands to fight someone. If you use an ice cream cone to hit someone, you can be found guilty of weapons possesion - for the ice cream cone.

:banghead:

Boats
August 12, 2004, 11:07 AM
When I lived in Hawai'i and CCW was all but impossible, I carried an old Buck 110. Today I would carry the knife I EDC everyday--A BM 806D2 Axis.

I disagree about the need for anything more than rudimentary training and retention practice with a knife for three primary reasons:

1. If you actually stick someone in a self defense situation, 15 years of escrima can and will be likely used against you in a grand jury proceeding, especially if the attacker dies or is grieviously wounded.

2. The odds are exceedingly long that you are going to randomly face a Jet Li wannabe that knows what he is doing, and who furthermore has the courage to actually face the possible punishment of getting inside your circle.

3. Most katas and such generally breakdown in the face of the "Folsom rush" and are more like dancing routines with knives than of any actual combat utility against a determined foe who is not out to spar with you in the proper form. How can I say this? I studied FMA weapons disciplines for more than five years. There is some value in them, but not as much as is generally credited to them.

Anecdotal yes, but the one time I had to pull that Buck when unexpectedly cornered and facing three on one odds, the light catching the opened blade was enough to end the encounter. I am against black blades to this day for that reason and have removed the coatings from any of my tac folder blades. In my mind the knife has primarily a deterrent value, as even the bold are daunted by the prospect of getting stabbed for their efforts, an advantage which is wasted if your blade is ninjafied into invisibility. I think you want your knife to be seen, especially since you are not likely to be infiltrating enemy positions with it clenched in your teeth ill-affording the chance to have its glint betray you.:scrutiny:

PBIR
August 12, 2004, 11:26 AM
There are a wide range of non-firearm weapons to choose from, depending upon the laws of the land in your area. A few things I would offer:

1) As already mentioned, un-arsing the area should always be choice A. Some have assumed the attacker will have a gun, but that rarely the case.

2) Choose whatever legal weapon will give you the greatest standoff range possible (aka USMC rules on gunfighting "Your goal should be to kill your enemy from as far away as possible" - although you don't need to kill, you just need to disable long enough to evac). Once you have choosen that weapon, practice, practice,practice,repeat. If you are not practicing or performing maintainence on that equipment, keep it as legally hidden as possible unless attacked.

Pulling a knife/asp/flashlight/spray with no idea on how to effectively use it is a recipe for trouble. You will likely elevate the hostility level of the attacker, and there is a good chance that thug has more experience in street brawls than you. Don't let movies fool you into believing they can all be taken down without working a sweat. I'm not saying brandishing a knife/asp/flashlight/spray can't have a deterrence factor, but I am saying you better be prepared to have your bluff called quick fast and in a hurry.

3) I don't think a hatchet in the car is going to be very effective for preventing car-jacking...

mhdishere
August 13, 2004, 11:18 AM
I guy I used to hang out with worked on oil barges and tugboats, he had steel-toes sneakers (Reboks, IIRC). Anyone that gave him trouble got a hard kick in the shin or knee.

Zackmeister
August 13, 2004, 01:07 PM
Does anyone whether an ASP is legal to carry in Texas? Thanks.

JShirley
August 13, 2004, 06:56 PM
Relying on deterrent value of any weapon is foolhardy and dangerous.

It's about like trusting pain to stop an adversary. Sure, it may- but structural, electrical, or hydraulic failure is the only guaranteed way to stop.

Pray you never have to use a knife if defense, but if you do, and your adversary knows you have a knife before it's in play, you have screwed up mightily. Laying flowers on your grave may do you honor, but living would be more to your credit.

John

Boats
August 14, 2004, 03:30 AM
No one said anything about relying on deterrent value, but to say that such has no value would be equally wrong in the other direction. There is a lot to be said for the attack avoided through deterrence over the repulsion of an attack already joined because the aggressor(s) "mistakenly" thought you unarmed.

The deterrent value of a kinfe against obviously unarmed but numerically superior numbers is a good thing.

The deterrent value of a knife in the face of a gun is almost nil.

In short, the circumstances and common sense dictate whether deterrence should be tried. Deterrence should never be relied upon. I like having the option.

Baba Louie
August 14, 2004, 11:28 AM
My Dad was a little guy who always wore a cowboy belt with a big shiny buckle and suspenders. In his misguided youth days he was known to raise a little heck after having quaffed down a rootbeer or two (or so the family story goes) and (again according to family legend... I asked my Uncles) more than once actually used said belt/buckle combination to keep other rootbeer quaffing hellions at bay whilst he effected escape.
He also enjoyed drinking liquid that came in long necked brown bottles as well. My Uncles also told me of his ability to use glass beverage containers (more than likely rootbeer bottles... again) with broken off bottoms to good effect... tho' it was always to effect escape.
Later on in life he found my Mother, God and quit drinking so much rootbeer, all three of which seemed to keep him from needing to effect escape from sticky rootbeer quaffing situations.
Anyway, I got his cowboy belts after he died. Several of them have had rawhide lacing placed to augment the snaps which hold the buckles in place. Must be the Boy Scout in him, being prepared and all that, or else he worried about the buckles becoming loose and falling off after becoming "unsnapped" ;)
He had quite a collection of big brass and other metal belt buckles he'd made.
As for the suspenders, Mom told me that as a poor, misguided youth, he always had to wear his older brother's hand-me-down pants and one time, while effecting escape from the local rootbeer hall, with cowboy belt in hand, his oversized britches kinda slowed him down as they sagged, so he went to the extra insurance of the suspenders.

tyme
August 15, 2004, 03:16 AM
This isn't an ideal weapon, but I like the magnesium firestarter blocks you can get at most camping supply stores. Relatively small, but those edges would hurt, and if you ever need a fire, a Mg block makes it easy provided you have a knife.

But I guess if you have a knife, that's a better weapon than the Mg block. Maybe one in each hand...

sekdar
August 23, 2004, 01:32 AM
IMO a knife is absolutely essential in the extreme cases when an adversary is much larger than you or is under chemical influence. i'm of the belief that your opponent should not know you have a knife until he feels it in him.

other good things include steel-toed boots and pepper spray concealed as common items.

brownie is right, though. use anything available to you. a briefcase, chair, long wooden branch, or even a heavy mug to your assailant's face could be used to thwart an attack.

JShirley
August 23, 2004, 09:30 AM
IMO a knife is absolutely essential in the extreme cases when an adversary is much larger than you or is under chemical influence. i'm of the belief that your opponent should not know you have a knife until he feels it in him.

Welcome to THR. I disagree strongly with your first idea, and strongly endorse your second.

John

MP5
August 30, 2004, 04:34 PM
Not sure if this was mentioned: house/car keys. Almost everyone carries those whenever they're out of the house. I imagine that jabbing an assailant in the eye or throat with one as a last resort could cause some serious damage. Fortunately, I've never had to test that theory. Swiss-Tech even makes a little key-sized multi-tool that includes a blade, the Utili-Key UST.

Re: pepper spray/mace, I've seen it used more than a few times in those various Cops-style shows. Some guys double over from it, others more or less shrug it off for one reason or another. I carry Mace, but I put a lot more faith in awareness and avoidance.

Lt. G
August 30, 2004, 07:22 PM
I don't know about conceled carry, but a can of wasp spray,(sprays at least 10 feet and with some PSI to it) sprayed into an attackers face is an economical detterent. You can claim you are allergic to wasp/bee stings and your prescription for your Epi pen ran out.

And always like Brownie says don't ever stop fighting/attacking. Use anything you can.

Brian Williams
August 30, 2004, 09:54 PM
A Good Hickory cane is a great SD weapon.

GEM
September 12, 2004, 04:49 PM
Came to this thread a little late but:

1. Several folks offer H2H classes that teach techniques that don't take years of cosmic training and might just get you that escape you need. You don't need to train for a Bruce Lee match. It is good to know how get loose.

2. Similarly, there are intro knife classes that do the same. It's not to do a stand your ground knife fight but to escape and flee, deter if need be.

3. Getting into some shape, isn't that hard. Walking and light weight lifting is something anyone can do.

I started lifting in my early fifties and now can bench a respectable amount several times and similarly curl quite a bit.

carpettbaggerr
September 12, 2004, 07:14 PM
lmost everyone carries those whenever they're out of the house. I imagine that jabbing an assailant in the eye or throat with one as a last resort could cause some serious damage. I know a guy who has a fist-sized wad of keys on a chain like a trucker's wallet. 2 pounds of keys swung hard on a heavy chain will ruin your day [and your face]. :uhoh:

dogngun
September 16, 2004, 09:33 PM
Chiam :

A lot of good ideas here, let me put up my .02.

Awareness, and an alert attitude are No. 1 to me, no matter if you have a weapon or not, along with physical conditioning above the couch potato level .

I have carried a knife of some sort since I was in cub scouts in the 1950's, and I have legally carried a handgun for 8 years.Never had to use either, but have come close.

The weapon that comes easiest to hand may be the one that saves your life, but you need to be aware of the threat, and physically and mentally prepared to use that weapon.

Good luck.

Mark

HiWayMan
September 20, 2004, 11:53 AM
To take something from our Brit neighbors across the pond. A high quality umbrella about 3' long with a stout metal walking tip and a curled handle makes a very effective deterent. It can be swung like a club, used for traps, and with a bit of training as a thrusting sword, all while remaining perfectly legal. Since the increase in street crime in the UK many prominent citizens have been "rediscovering" the lost art of fencing. Having done a fair bit of it in college myself I can say that it also makes for a damn fine workout. As far as I'm concerned this makes quite a formidable weapon when applied with the correct attitude. And besides, you don't have to fake a limp as with a sword cane, and the weather men rarely if ever get the forecast right.

carpettbaggerr
September 20, 2004, 05:02 PM
http://www.gutterfighting.org/Umbrella.html :D

Fit guy under 50 carrying a cane would make me look twice. An umbrella? Hmmm. Didn't know it was supposed to rain. :)

confinedbythecurtain
September 21, 2004, 06:02 PM
I would go with the Asp or the blackjack. I would think that one would hesitate to stab an attacker, they might be quicker to cave his head in with an asp or a blackjack. Just my opinion...

komo
November 25, 2006, 08:04 PM
There are two 5th-grade boys. One is very small, wimpy, etc. The other is almost a head taller, muscular, "hard as a rock", even works out, and so on. They are friends. When they wrestle, the bigger one always wins. When they put on boxing gloves and sparred, the bigger one almost knocked out the smaller one. The question is, can it be said with 100% certainty that somehow the smaller kid could find a way to physically hurt the bigger kid? And how?

Snowdiver
November 27, 2006, 01:07 AM
Diversion!

LanEvo`
November 27, 2006, 11:18 AM
A big bandana snapped like a locker room towel to the face, eyes, neck seems to grab the attention of most people...Now, take that same bandana and sew a small ball bearing into one of the corners...if you go to snapping that thing on someone it will break bones in the face, pluck an eye outWhat you're describing sounds an awful lot like "slung shot." And slung shot are specifically disallowed in just about all jurisdictions. Could get you into some serious legal trouble.

hso
November 27, 2006, 12:26 PM
komo,

Welcome to THR!

When facing greater size/weight/strength opponents, speed, skill and thinking are all that is left to you.

The smaller boy could train to be faster or train to develop skills needed to balance out the larger boy's advantages. He could work on techniques needed to use the other boys weight against him. Techniques for avoiding the larger boy getting a solid controlling grip.

The smaller boy could find ways to outthink the larger one. Make friends, establish common goals or find ways to confuse him or take on the role of the agressor. He could decide to become more ruthless and take the fight to a more dangerous level by attacking more fragile parts of the larger boy.

He could decide to use tools to counter the greater strength and weight of the other boy.

All this can fail if the larger boy isn't easily outthought or if the larger boy is also quick or if the larger boy just get's lucky and his advantages all line up at the right time against the smaller boy.

10-Ring
November 28, 2006, 10:28 PM
My first thoughts were: pepper spray, pocket knife, kabutan, karambit, ASP, blackjack and Taser. I'm sure there are others, but these should be enough to keep you busy & well protected for a while ;)

Korbin
November 28, 2006, 11:53 PM
Depending on the situation, I think a good bluff can turn the tide before it gets violent. I've used it a couple of times, but once a friend and I were walking down a lonely street 2 in the A.M. in Toronto and some guy started following us and yelling stuff at us. There was NOBODY else around. I spun around and started yelling in my loudest, deepest voice at him and waving my arms. By yelling I mean foam spewing from mouth, giant-vein-in-the-forehead yelling. :cuss: And quickly walking toward him. He turned around and briskley walked the other way. No harm done.

And by bluff, I do mean bluff. If he didn't get scared I would have been SOL. lol I'm a wimp.

walking arsenal
November 29, 2006, 12:37 AM
A Good Hickory cane is a great SD weapon.

Brian makes a good point.

Theres been a lot of complicated suggestions.

My favorite is a good old fashioned stick. I have a few that i bought, found, whatever. I couple of those red oak dowels from home depot, one rides in my car next to my seat and another comes with when i go for walks around town. It goes with the gun and knife.

Folks have been clubbing the snot out of eachother since the beginning of time. No reason it wouldnt work now.

.02

up_onus
November 29, 2006, 12:59 AM
well, if your REALLY concerned about defense...
First off, start getting in shape...and why not getting in shape doin a martial art????
Secondly, EBAY you can find tear gas, 35 bucks a can.
Third, for night I would get a http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=217912&highlight=flashlight+bear, this can blind an attacker for your "chance" to use a) the flashlight your holding b)martial arts c)RUNNING AWAY. c) The tear gas you purchased.
Fourth, IT IS ABSOLUTELY RIDICULOUS TO USE A KNIFE IF YOU DONT KNOW HOW, again this takes TRAINING TO BECOME GOOD,

STOP BEING LAZY -- if your worried about your "well being" dont think there is an easy way out. Like everything else in life there is a right way and every other way and the right way may be hardER.

walking arsenal
November 29, 2006, 01:04 AM
Wow. :uhoh:

usmccpl
November 29, 2006, 09:17 PM
A roll of coins that fits your hand good.I watched a 5 year old KO a full grown man with a roll of dimes in his hand.Also I have never been any where that it was illegal to carry money.




one shot one kill

walking arsenal
November 29, 2006, 10:06 PM
I bet theres a good story there. Care to tell?

hso
November 29, 2006, 11:15 PM
Welcome to THR, Korbin!

Rachen
November 30, 2006, 03:28 PM
was a soldier in the Chinese Communist 8th Army during the Anti-Japanese War. They had nothing but swords and spears in 1938, yet they managed to slaughter an entire Japanese division at Pingxingguan.

When it comes to non gun self defense, I would use my Wushu training I learned as a kid, a pair of sharpened chopsticks that can be lethal within 10 yards.

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