Using Satallite Tracking to Tax Drivers in Oregon....


Justin Moore
January 2, 2003, 06:22 AM
This stuff is so weird that you CAN'T make it up:

Big Brother eyes taxes by the mile
State considers space-based technology to collect revenue

CNS News 12/31/02

Original Link:

The latest proposal by government to collect tax revenue may seem out of this world – that's because it is.

The state of Oregon is considering the use of satellite technology to charge taxes based on how much mileage you drive your car.

The Road User Fee Task Force set up by lawmakers last year plans to ask the 2003 session to authorize testing of a vehicle-mileage tax, reports the Associated Press.

Oregon was the first state back in 1919 to adopt a gas tax, and today officials expect revenues to flatten as gas mileage improves and more hybrid cars come on line.

Jim Whitty, the task force administrator, says his group is looking at a per-mile charge of up to 1.25 cents to generate funds comparable to the current gas tax.

"We also have to have a way to track mileage only within the state," Whitty told the AP. This rules out basing the fee on odometer readings, which would include out-of-state driving.

"Technology has improved to the degree that this can be done, with an electronic device," he said.

The device in each car would be linked to a Global Positioning Satellite system, or GPS, which allows pinpoint navigation by bouncing signals off satellites.

The task force hopes to organize a test of this system if lawmakers approve, checking to see if the system even works, then conducting a yearlong evaluation.

There are several options for actually collecting fees. One is to send vehicle owners a monthly bill, another is to outfit gas stations so they can read vehicle transponders and collect the tax at fueling stops.

If you think the new method would do away with the tax on fuel, think again. In assessing the new levy, drivers would get credit for gas tax already paid.

To protect drivers' privacy, using the system to track cars in real time would be illegal. New cars would be required to have the GPS technology. Owners of older cars would be allowed to take part by retrofitting them.

A final decision on the proposal is not expected to come until the 2005 legislative session at the earliest.


A 'promise' to not track people in real time is worthless IMHO. Remember that promise that the SSN wouldn't be used for identification purposes?

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January 2, 2003, 06:43 AM
Proof the econazis are no better than a bunch of robbers.

We reduce fuel consumption, thereby helping environment, and voila, there's a new tax just for driving around with your vehicle. If they want to tax you for road usage, they'll find a smarter way like taxing on the vehicle weight (which is a IMO a good way since heavier vehicles damage roads more).

And I'm sure they will not abolish the fuel tax.

El Tejon
January 2, 2003, 07:46 AM
mussi, the federal fuel tax here is for buying votes! They'll never get rid of that.:D

Help me out here guys as I know very little of technology. Are they using GPS like technology or lowjack or what?

Wouldn't people just disable their vehicles transmitters so they could not be tracked and taxed?:confused:

January 2, 2003, 07:48 AM
BIG BROTHER IS WATCHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

January 2, 2003, 08:35 AM
L1 freq: 1575.42 MHz (civilian)
L2 freq: 1227.60 MHz (military)

Build a jammer and not only will you evade the tax (claim the receiver's broken), you'll piss off everyone nearby who can't understand why their fancy vehicle navigation systems aren't working. :evil: Of course, you'll probably also get arrested by the FCC within a week :(

2nd Amendment
January 2, 2003, 09:25 AM
So, who would pay to add the equipment and all the necessary supporting widgets to my '64 Caddy? My old Jag? The '63 GMC? Will they pay for the damage this does to the vehicle value because of the modifications? Or does this become an eventual excuse to further that study the EPA(or DoD, I forget which) did several years ago that called for the elimination of vehicles over 5 years old?

As a wise man once said, SCROOM!

January 2, 2003, 09:40 AM
I'd like to see a cost analysis of such a program. Just how much revenue would they net after subtracting all the costs of the program. This sounds like a tax collection scheme that will increase the need to raise taxes to pay for the cost of tax collection scheme (now I'm dizzy).

Oh wait, maybe in lieu of raising taxes, the state will add a "GPS user fee" by which citizens will pay the state for its "services in tracking their mileage."

"No Mr. Driver, this is not a tax; this is a user fee. You are using our GPS equipment to arrive at your appropriate tax bill. It is selfish of you to balk at paying your fair share for this convenience. Indeed, if you drive less, your taxes will be very low. This service may help you pay less tax."

"Um, but the user fee alone is more than my old tax, and when you add my new tax, I'm paying more overall even if I never drive."

"Yes, but your tax is lower. Isn't that worth paying for?"

January 2, 2003, 09:48 AM

Time to finish up on that project motorcycle...You know, the old Harley, Kawasaki, Triumph, Indian, etc tucked away in the back of the garage.......:neener:

January 2, 2003, 12:14 PM
I said it before in many a post and I'll say it again, it is geting very Orwellian isn't it?:fire: :cuss:

January 2, 2003, 02:06 PM
Tinfoil over the antenna.

Oleg Volk
January 2, 2003, 02:22 PM
I expect high incidence of breakage among the devices. If they become part of the ignition, then I expect many car sales from border dealerships inthe next state. Americans are inventive about such things.

Gray Peterson
January 2, 2003, 03:00 PM
This will never pass. A large majority of car drivers are in the Portland area, and they'll buy cars just across the river. There will be massive civil disobedience over this. If they try to charge by mile, they would have to charge non-residents, and that would violate several ICC rules as well.

January 2, 2003, 03:14 PM
"Orwellian" Yep

Everyone scoffs at the elderly with the older vehicles,whom shakes heads at 'new fangled stuff", drop jaws and glare at the news. That old Buck didn't get old by becoming prey. History lessons --focus on LESSONS

January 2, 2003, 03:27 PM
To protect drivers' privacy, using the system to track cars in real time would be illegal. :rolleyes:

Mike Irwin
January 2, 2003, 04:17 PM
12,000 miles a year, at 1.25 cents per mile is $150 per year.

OK,new taxes of $150 a year stink, no matter how you raise them.

But there's already a mechanism in place to collect these taxes...

It's called the frigging gas tax.

Just raise it.

That's a use fee pure and simple, and you're also collecting it on out of staters, which is always considered to be a good thing.

I guarantee you if they pass something THIS assnine there will be a LOT of cars that never leave the garage.

Well, the satellite transponder won't leave the garage...

Navy joe
January 2, 2003, 05:38 PM
Thank you Mike, it's hilarious they come up with some James Bond stuff when a novel concept exists. The more gas you buy, the more you must be using the roads! Imagine that. It's a use fee, I hate taxes, like that. I agree that fossil fuel use must be reduced, sometimes even the leftist eco-weenies are right.

Today the price of gas is way lower than it's historical value. 15-30 cents per gallon was common throughout the 30s-50s, in today's money gas should be 3-4 bucks a gallon. I figure that's a lil excessive given increased supply efficiency, but still it's funny to hear people drinking $4 a gallon water, buying $4 milk, whining about the price of gas.

Last I was in France gas was 5 francs per litre. Hmm, 5 frogs to the dollar at that time, 4 liters in a gallon nearabouts and wow! We won't have cheap gas forever, it's time to stop treating that idea as a political sacred cow and try to be less dependent. Some of the gas tax should support alternative energy investment, usable technologies such as hybrid, fuel cell, and others exist. Of course the eco-weenies don't like me because while we're busy building fuel efficient vehicles, solar and wind power we should also be drilling(safely) on the ANWR and building more nuclear power operations.

Another novel low-tech concept exists too. It's called a freakin' toll booth people, no satellite required, makes a job for somebody that might otherwise be on welfare too.

January 2, 2003, 06:01 PM
Seeing how abysmal government services are, I used to think government was stupid. Then I stopped to think how much of our money now goes to them, how much of our lives are now controlled by them. They're not stupid; I simply misunderstood their true purpose. If anyone is stupid, it's US for allowing them to gain so much power over us. We're the ones who are stupid!

I guarantee you that if (when) they implement something like this, it will be designed so that if you disable the transponder, you've also disabled the ignition or vehicle computer. AND the vehicle will probably transmit a signal that the device is non-operational, and any cop you pass will know if you're taxing yourself or not.

Sure a few hackers will find a way to defeat this. But 98% of us suckers will just pay.

They're much smarter than we are. Come on, admit it.


January 2, 2003, 06:25 PM
Its true that we have Special Ed. legislators here in Oregon. This is just another of the brain trust's thoughts, like the idea to put a roof on the freeway through Portland or to move the freeway over 100 yards to the left so they can have a new park on the Willamette River. Think what this will do to UPS, Taxi's, any delivery service. In case you did not get the drift of why this is a good idea here it is...New cars are getting so efficient that the State of Oregon is losing money on gasoline taxes and this is the way to bring the revenue back up. Also, the State of Oregon's Department of Transportation with its 1.7 billion dollar budget has not spent a dime on new road construction in years and now says it needs more money.

January 2, 2003, 06:36 PM
I agree, I was alluding to the fact a lot of the older persons -just don't participate in some sci-fi , Orwelian ideals...until no choice...but protest best can. Here in my state (homestate of Klinton) we have such bad mgt of roads and taxes. Thought for years tolls be a good idea. Political machine here more worried about pockets than using tases effectivley. Oh during an election year throw a bone for votes. No wonder we rank at or near the bottom of most lists.

January 2, 2003, 07:27 PM
While on the subject of tracking systems and cars... how many drivers are aware that since the late 1990's, most cars and trucks manufactured in North America have been fitted with a "black box"? It's part of the vehicle's standard computer systems, and can be "tapped" to see how fast the vehicle was going / had been going before and during a collision. It's theoretically possible to build an interface so that a cop could stop you for speeding and read out, from your own car's computer, the speed you were doing! I hate Big Brother's baneful influence... :fire:

January 2, 2003, 07:32 PM
Is there something strange in the water out west?

January 2, 2003, 07:48 PM
Is there something strange in the water out west?

Just along the coast.

January 2, 2003, 07:55 PM
I bet Big Brother hates "points plugs and condensers" :D

January 2, 2003, 08:37 PM
I WAS gonna retire to my property in so. coastal Oregon, but if they keep up the crap they been pulling for last couple years it's looking like it'll be another Kali. or worse! I guess this is what happens when red diaper doper babies grow up and go to state legislature.:fire:

January 3, 2003, 02:15 AM
"points plugs and condensers"
1983 models and before, correct?

January 3, 2003, 02:37 AM
'bout then.

with all this tracking and Orwellian tactics, there are those whom say all this computer generated stuff could be knocked out of commisson with electro magnetic low altitude bombs. Short theory is one everyone has become dependent on cars, planes, pc's...Someone wanting power could cripple by disabling.

Older stuff not dependent-- not affected.

January 3, 2003, 02:46 AM
In regards to "big brother hating points and condensors" ;he really hates diesels with mechanical fuel injection. No emp is gonna stop one of those babies only a direct hit with cannon!Just a random thought on govt high tech crap.:fire:

January 3, 2003, 03:06 AM
I think were on the same page, grab another gear...

Navy joe
January 3, 2003, 04:20 AM
he really hates diesels with mechanical fuel injection

...and an air starter. :D

2nd Amendment
January 3, 2003, 11:01 AM
If memory serves GM left points and condensors after '75. Ford after '76. Chrysler was even earlier, with that abomination that used to hang off all their air cleaner housings. All these vehicles are old enough now that parts can be annoying to find and most people lack the time and knowledge to mess with them. Well, most people don't have a clue or care anyway.

I always try to keep at least one old timer sitting around. I enjoy them but there's also the chance they may someday fill a need. I still wonder, though, how long before autos past a certain age or lacking certain on board computer systems are banned from public roads, or flat out banned from ownership at all.

January 3, 2003, 06:23 PM
Owners of older cars would be allowed to take part by retrofitting them.

"Allowed to take part".. ? Does this mean there is someone out there who WANTS to be tracked by a satellite? Or is this just their way of saying "we're gonna put it in your old car whether you like it or not".. :rolleyes:

Ahh, anyway, my '72 Chevy scoffs at anything computerized. (Well, ok, got rid of the points, but.. :p )

Oregon is a wierd state. You've got the coastal and eastern areas which are populated mostly by farmers, and are very pro-gun. Then you've got the central valley, which is a bastion of liberal thought. The liberals just outnumber us.. :eek:

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