Aftermarket barrel for LEAD reloads for Glock 26?


PDA






DAL
January 4, 2003, 12:33 PM
Is there an aftermarket barrel for LEAD reloads? I was told that Federal (not the ammo maker) makes barrels for reloads, but the guy wasn't sure if it was okay to shoot lead bullets in it. Does anyone here have any experience with this subject? I just picked up a used G26 and, if it shoots as well as its reputation, I'd like to use it for IDPA and shoot it a lot.
DAL

If you enjoyed reading about "Aftermarket barrel for LEAD reloads for Glock 26?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
stans
January 4, 2003, 01:29 PM
The problem with Glocks and lead bullets is the polygonal rifling. Any barrel with conventional lands and grooves should be safe for lead bullets. Alternatively, you can shoot lead bullets in a Glock barrel, just clean the lead build up from the barrel frequently.

jc2
January 4, 2003, 07:36 PM
Actually, if you go back and read the manual that came with your G26, you will find that Glock is totally silent on the subject lead bullets. Glock has published absolultely no warnings or caustions against the use of lead bullets in their weapons (despite all the internet hoopla). Just be advised the use of lead bullets in any barrel requires a thorough cleaning afterward--and generally speaking, the higher the velocity, the tougher the cleaning job.

DAL
January 4, 2003, 11:17 PM
I'll be calling Glock to get a manual; I didn't get one with my 26.
DAL

Kahr carrier
January 4, 2003, 11:54 PM
What about a KKM barrel.:)

Schuey2002
January 5, 2003, 12:08 AM
Check out a BarSto barrel....:)

www.barsto.com

Shoney
January 5, 2003, 12:40 AM
Barrel Manufacturer Links:

Bar-Sto http://barsto.com

KKM Precision http://www.kkmprecision.com/

Fire Dragon http://www.norecoil.com

Jarvis http://www.jarvis-custom.com

Olympic Arms http://www.olyarms.com


Best, Shoney

JohnKSa
January 5, 2003, 12:49 AM
Actually, if you go back and read the manual that came with your G26, you will find that Glock is totally silent on the subject lead bullets.
jc2, how long have you had your Glock?

There are several other things you shouldn't do with your Glock that aren't listed in the manual... If you have any questions about the use of lead bullets (or any other questions about your Glock pistol) you can contact Glock, USA by phone.

As far as I know, all of the aftermarket barrels for Glocks are approved for use with lead bullets. For the record, if you have a .40 or .357 Sig, I wouldn't reload real hot with an FAC(Federal Arms Co) barrel--especially not with the heavy bullets in the .40. Nothing in the way of hard evidence--just the old you get what you pay for hunch...

dave
January 5, 2003, 03:17 AM
While it is correct that the Glock manual doesn't say anything about shooting lead rounds, several publications do speak of it. One, I think it's the Glock Annual Magazine, has had articles in every issue explaining why one should not shoot lead ammo in Glocks. The issue is also talked about on several on-line supplier sites.

If one feels them must use lead ammo, hey, it's their gun. But I choose not to.

jc2
January 5, 2003, 09:47 AM
While it is correct that the Glock manual doesn't say anything about shooting lead rounds, several publications do speak of it.
None published by Glock. The Glock Annual is a Glock publication and clearly states it does not represent the official Glock position.
The issue is also talked about on several on-line supplier sites.
So, it's an internet legend. I can post links to internet sites that "prove" Glock "kB!s" and at least one "major supplier" recommends replacement barrels for all .40 S&W Glocks. Makes you wonder if it has anything to do with profit motive, doesn't it? You can probably find internet sites that prove the moon is made of green cheese, and Elvis is alive and well in Area 51 along with internet sites that "prove" you shouldn't use lead bullets in your Glock. It's really a matter of choice--who are you going to believe? --the internet or the manual that came (or should have come) with you weapon?

The next time somebody tells you not to shoot lead bullets in your Glock (or should buy an aftermarket barrel for your Glock), as them to show exactly where Glock has published any warnings or cautions about the use of lead bullets in any official Glock publication. Believe me, if lead bullets were the problem many of these "experts" would like you to believe, the Glock manual would be full of red warnings and cautions out of self-protection if nothing else.

The fact remains that Glock does not publish any warnings, or even cautions, concerning the use lead bullets in their handguns, period. As far as I'm concerned (with the usual caveats about cleaning and good routine maintenance) that until Glock officially publishes guidance warning or cautioning against the use of lead bullets in their handguns, it is an acceptable practice (regardless of what one may read on the internet). I guess I'm stubborn, but I prefer to get my guidance from the manufacturer's published instructions rather than the internet.

BTW, I have ran many Georgia Arms lead LRN bullets bullets through my G17 with no problems though I prefer the FMJ bullets just be cause I'm lazy--it's a whole lot easier cleaning up after jacketed bullets (or maybe I'm just not as paranoid about cleaning after shooting jacketed bullets as I am after shooting lead--and the price difference is minimal).

Sean Smith
January 5, 2003, 10:43 AM
Wow, that post sure sounds familiar... :rolleyes:

The alternate point of view, presented by a forensic engineer:

http://markco.gunsnet.net/glockKB.html

Of course, some people have a funny idea of what a "myth" is. :p

bigjim
January 5, 2003, 11:19 AM
There may be a grain of truth to the fact the barrel makers may have a profit motive in pushing the lead bullet issue with Glocks.

But then again Glock DARN sure has a profit motive to stay silent.

Why do you assume Glock as a seller is the honest one and anyone else trying to turn a buck is lieing to you?

There does appear to be a bubble in the number of KBs with 40 cal Glocks and reloads.

Nero Steptoe
January 5, 2003, 11:32 AM
"I guess I'm stubborn, but I prefer to get my guidance from the manufacturer's published instructions rather than the internet.."

So, would you please point out where Glock or any other manufacturer recommends the use of reloads (of any kind) in their guns?? I didn't think so. So, you don't shoot reloads in any of your guns and don't recommend that anybody ever shoot a reload of any description in any of their guns??

jc2
January 5, 2003, 01:35 PM
The alternate point of view, presented by a forensic engineer:
Yes, but it is not Glock--just another "internet expert." I mean if you want an alternate point of view on Glocks, I could just link you Dean Speir's Gun Zone site. Is MarkCO credible, but Dean Speir not? Or is it just your point of view. Again, MarkCO is not Glock, nor does speak for Glock. When Glock hires Mark and officially adopts his position then it will be Glock's position--until then it's just another internet opinion. What does the user manual say? What is Glock's official published position?
But then again Glock DARN sure has a profit motive to stay silent.
Not really--and certainly not, if lead bullets are the safety risk, the internet would have you believe. The potential for failure and injuries to failure with lead bullets (to the extent propulgated by the internet) would have forced Glock to include the warnings and cautions if they were necessary.
There does appear to be a bubble in the number of KBs with 40 cal Glocks and reloads.
There appears to be a bubble in the number of kB!s with .40 S&W Glocks with factory loads.
So, would you please point out where Glock or any other manufacturer recommends the use of reloads (of any kind) in their guns??
I don't know what your point is. We're talking about lead bullets--and a warning against their use. So far as I know all manufacture recommends against the use of reloads (at least of the "home brewed" types). Glock does recommend the use of "high quality commercially manufactured ammunition" which certainly includes ammunition manufactured by Georgia Arms and other major commercial ammunition manufacturers regardles of bullet composition.

I really fail to see what the problem is, period. Glock is simply silent on the use of lead bullets in their handgun, period. They do not publish any warnings or even cautions about the use of lead bullets in their handguns, period. What's all the fuss?

The fact remains Glock is officially silent on the use of lead bullets in their weapon. In no Glock publication is there an endorsement or a warning or a caution about using lead bullets in Glock handguns. That is a fact.

Nero Steptoe
January 5, 2003, 04:15 PM
I don't shoot lead through any of my pistols, Glocks or otherwise, but not because of anything any manufacturer recommended or warned against. I was just following up on your point about your following manufacturers' recommendations and, ergo, would have to assume then that you don't use reloads in any of your firearms. I personally do use reloads and have no fear about using them.

MarkCO is a forensic engineer and has done pretty extensive work on the effects of shooting lead through Glock barrels. Dean Speir is not a forensic engineer and, in fact, is a disingenuous habitual prevaricator.

JohnKSa
January 5, 2003, 08:33 PM
1. There are well documented instances of lead induced kBs in Glock pistols. Many are available on the internet.

2. A Forensic Engineer did a careful study of this topic and posted his analysis along with the dangerously high chamber pressure measurements resulting from his experiments with lead bullets in Glock pistols.

3. If you call Glock USA, they will inform you that they do not recommend the use of lead bullets in their pistols.

Therefore, regardless of whether or not it is stated in an "official Glock publication", it is certainly NOT a web legend.

Furthermore, the poster didn't even ask about shooting lead in his original barrel, he asked if there were aftermarket barrels which were ok to use with lead. There are and they've been listed.

BTW, jc2, you implied that you own a Glock pistol. Which Glocks do you currently own?

AFTER you answer that question, perhaps you could let us in on your motive--why you would encourage a Glock owner to engage in a practice which is widely accepted to be dangerous.

4v50 Gary
January 5, 2003, 08:38 PM
Prudence mandates using lead only with caution or better yet, not at all. I myself do not want to be the test example that everyone else reads about.

jc2
January 5, 2003, 09:39 PM
A Forensic Engineer did a careful study of this topic and posted his analysis along with the dangerously high chamber pressure measurements resulting from his experiments with lead bullets in Glock pistols.
He is not an employee of Glock, and he does not speak for Glock. Have you seen his CV? Have you checked his references? Regardless, he is entitled to his opinions--just remember they are his opinions and not Glock's position.
If you call Glock USA, they will inform you that they do not recommend the use of lead bullets in their pistols.
There is a big difference between "not recommend" and issuing warnings and cautions in the manual. There is a big difference between "not recommend" and something being, as you state later in your post, "dangerous." If someone asked me, I would probably recommend against the use of lead bullets in any barrel or weapon because they are messy, hard to clean up afterward and the usual health and environmental hazards associated with lead--to me, for the price difference is not worth the hassle.
Therefore, regardless of whether or not it is stated in an "official Glock publication", it is certainly NOT a web legend.
Give me a reference in an official Glock publication warning against the use of lead bullets in Glock handguns. If you cannot, the "lead bullets in Glocks causes kabooms" is a web legend. "If it not written down on a piece paper with four corners--it didn't happen.
Furthermore, the poster didn't even ask about shooting lead in his original barrel, he asked if there were aftermarket barrels which were ok to use with lead. There are and they've been listed.
Correct, and I suggested he read the manual that came with his handgun and see what the manufacturer of the original barrel had to say about lead bullets. The point remains that Glocks is officially silent about the use of lead bullets in their barrels. Why should he go out and buy a new after-market barrel if the maker of his OEM barrel does warn or caution against the use of lead bullets?
why you would encourage a Glock owner to engage in a practice which is widely accepted to be dangerous.
You have just a couple of facts wrong. I did not encourage the use of lead bullets, as you previously stated, he had already made up his mind to use lead bullets. I merely pointed that his manual does not have any warnings or cautions against the use of lead bullets in his OEM barrel. If the "practice" is "widely accepted to be dangerous," as you apparently believe, why doesn't the manufacturer state so in the manual. They issue warnings and cautions as basic as use the right calibre ammunition and hearing protection. Why doesn't the manufacturere warn against what you describe as a "dangerous practice?" As near as I can tell, the whole "lead bullets are dangerous in Glocks" is a totally undocumented internet legend.

Unless someone can come up with an official, published warning by Glock, Inc. warning or cautioning against the use of lead bullets in their OEM barrels, I'm out of here. Believe what you want, but Glock is officially silent.

JohnKSa
January 5, 2003, 09:52 PM
Actually you have a couple of facts wrong.

1. He didn't ask about using lead bullets in the Glock barrel. Nor did he say that he intended to use lead bullets in the Glock barrel. His questions about lead use were directed toward the FAC barrel and aftermarket barrels.

2. I didn't say anything about Glock's "official position" or "official publications, I merely pointed out that your assertion that it was an "internet legend" was false. As is your illogical and somewhat odd (not to mention grammatically incorrect) assertion "If it not written down on a piece paper with four corners--it didn't happen." Clearly many things have happened that aren't written down on a piece of paper.

And lastly, you weren't to respond to the question about your motives for endorsing the use of lead in Glock pistols until you answered the question about which Glocks you currently own. Is there some reason you don't want to answer that question?

RON in PA
January 6, 2003, 12:50 AM
Glock does not say anything about lead bullets in their manual. Glock also says to only use factory ammo. To the best of my knowledge there are no factory loads with lead bullets in the calibers Glock chambers its pistols for.

I avoid the whole problem, when I reload for my Glock pistols I use plated bullets from Ranier or Berrys. No problems and there doesn't seem to be any fouling.

Suggestion: Save your money and use the Glock barrel.

JohnKSa
January 6, 2003, 09:26 PM
Ron,

Actually there are factory lead loads available in 10mm and .40S&W.

And, interestingly enough, the worst case of leading I've ever seen was in a Beretta 92FS I used to own. I bought a batch of ammo that turned out to be copper plated, not copper jacketed. After just a magazine full, the rifling was so full of lead that the barrel looked like a smoothbore.

I've never used the two brands you recommend, but it sounds like they may be much higher quality. I guess all that to say that not all plated bullets are created equal.

Good shooting,

John

jc2
January 7, 2003, 05:42 AM
Glock does not say "to only use factory ammo." They do say to use "high quality commercially manufactured ammunition" which certainly includes ammunition manufactured by Georgia Arms and other major commercial ammunition manufacturers regardles of bullet composition.

FWIW, I believe Beretta, unlike Glock, actually warns against the use of lead bullets in its weapons.

TreeSquid
January 7, 2003, 12:14 PM
Considering Glock's irresponsibility about notifying owners of the frame rail issues, I really wouldn't be the slightest bit surprised if they completely ignored the lead bullets + polygonal rifling issue, even if they knew it was dangerous. It just seems to be a company without the stones to admit that there's anything wrong with Glock Perfection (TM). They make a good product, but they're unscrupulous.

JohnKSa
January 8, 2003, 12:02 AM
Unless someone can come up with an official, published warning by Glock, Inc. warning or cautioning against the use of lead bullets in their OEM barrels, I'm out of here.
jc2,

Hard to take you seriously when you don't post the truth.

RE: Beretta's lead policy--of course you are right since I told you that myself. However, the manual I got with my original 92FS over 10 years ago (the one mentioned in the story above) didn't have that warning. My current 92 series Beretta, purchased last year, came with a manual which does include a recommendation against the use of lead bullets and a stern caution to NEVER shoot jacketed bullets through a barrel which may have any traces of lead fouling until it has been thoroughly cleaned.

Considering Glock's irresponsibility about notifying owners of the frame rail issues
TreeSquid,
The way they handled it is common practice. Honda had a seatbelt recall (I would consider that a safety issue!) and the only notification I got was when I took the car to the dealer for an oil change. If I didn't get my service from the dealer, I figure I still wouldn't know about it.

Furthermore the failure rate on the "affected" Glocks is very low (in spite of all the internet hubbub, I've read of fewer than 10 actual cases of breakage)--most gun makers wish they could get their failure rate that low on their non-defective products.

AND, to top it off, Glock's testing indicates that the gun should continue to operate for up to 4,000 rounds. Since the breakage is easily detectable during a normal cleaning, and the average shooter rarely shoots 4,000 round in a self-defense confrontation or at a typical range visit, this should pretty much be a non-issue when you consider that Glock will fix the problem for free if it crops up (and in many--possibly all eventually--cases even if it doesn't).

And, Glock doesn't ignore the lead issue. It's quite well-known, it's been printed time and time again in various publications (maybe not OFFICIAL Glock pubs) and, if you still have confusion on the issue, Glock will set you straight if you give them a call.

Don't get too worked up over jc2's posts. His hobby is posting on misleading/controversial topics about Glock and Glock products. I'll bet if you did a little research you would find that most of his posts are about Glocks--which is all the more interesting when you find that he doesn't own a Glock and claims that he never intends to own one. He just enjoys stirring things up a bit and Glock seems to be one of his two or three favorite topics.

Good shooting,

John

jc2
January 8, 2003, 06:56 AM
he doesn't own a Glock and claims that he never intends to own one.
Actually, I currently own G19 and have owned several Glocks. I've shot lead bullets in Glocks with zero problems. I even sort of like Glocks for the most part. I'm seriously contemplating a G20 purchase at this time.

john -

"Hard to take you seriously when you don't post the truth." --or don't even know the facts.

There's nothing controversial about the current subject. Glock's manual is absolutely silent concerning the use of lead bullets the weapon, period. It is not an issue with them--or at least not a serious enough issue to merit the publication of a caution or warning. Anybody with a Glock manual can check the accuracy of that statement.

I'd say the only person being controversial is the one who insists on posting his totally undocumented statements that lead bullets are dangerous in Glocks (and hence, Glock is negligent by failing to publish the appropriate warnings and/or cautions--the logical conclusion if your unsupported allegations were factual).

Master Blaster
January 8, 2003, 09:15 AM
My two cents:

I own 1 glock a g26.

I have fired lead bullets through it.

Here is my experience:

Commercial soft swaged bullets, fouled the barrel in about 20 rounds, the worst lead fouling I have ever seen. a ring of lead 1/4 up the barrel, and another ring of lead almost at the muzzle.
The ring of lead completely obscured the rifling. I stopped shooting and cleaned the gun. I threw the commercial reloads away. If I had fired jacketed after these bullets I have no doubt the gun would have blown up.:uhoh:

I then tried berry's plated bullets, they left a small amount of copper fouling in the barrel, it was not too hard to remove.

Next I tried brinnell hardness 18 lead hardcast bullets, wich were properly sized and lubricated. I fired about 100 rounds checking the barrel every 15 or so for fouling. After the full 100 there were traces, very small traces of lead in the barrel near the chamber, they were easy to clean out.

I will next try some 20 brinnell bullets from PENN, I suspect that they will leave no fouling.

20 brinnell is about the same hardness as a copper jacket.

Why shoot lead? They are required at my club, due to a zoning restriction, placed upon us by New Castle County dating to an expansion of the club building in 1992, forbidding, Jacketed rounds and other "armour piercing cop killer bullets" :fire:

Handy
January 8, 2003, 12:56 PM
I didn't bother reading this whole thing, but I'll say what has probably been previously said:

Since its a 9mm, and 9mm can be had for $5 a box, why bother shooting lead?

I can see reloading for 9mm to acheive greater accuracy, but lead is notoriously less accurate in 9mm. And bulk jacketed bullets for reloading 9mm are also dirt cheap.

Why not avoid the hassle of bulging a barrel and shoot cheap, accurate factory loads? I like S&B.

DAL
January 8, 2003, 02:28 PM
Wow! I didn't think my little question would cause such a controversy. Maybe shooting lead isn't worth the hassle after all (but, damn, I can get 115 gr. lead bullets for $30/k), but even if I shoot FMJ bullets, I still want to reload. Which aftermarket barrel, if any, has a fully supported chamber so I don't have a kB problem?

BTW, there is a sticker inside the box of my G26 that reads "WARNING!! DO NOT USE RELOADED OR REMANUFACTURED AMMUNITION!" I still have approx. 1500 rounds of 9mm factory reloads I use for my CZ75, but now I'm wondering if I should use them in my Glock.
DAL

Master Blaster
January 8, 2003, 04:30 PM
Based on my experience, factory reloads usually use cheap soft swaged lead bullets, dark grey in color, can be scratched with a fingernail.

Save those for your CZ. Shoot 20 in your glock and check the barrel after every 10. (remove all ammo and dissassemble gun first).

I prefer the Berry's plateds myself.

Handy
January 8, 2003, 07:48 PM
DAL,

FMJ for reloading will only cost $45/K or less. Spend the money.

Also, you're confusing too completely seperate problems with Glocks. Unsupported chambers can lead to case head failures, known as KaBooms. These don't seem to happen in 9mm pistols.

Lead is a different problem in the Glock due to the rifling profile, a variation on polygonal known to Glock as "cyclonic". Compared to land and groove rifling, cyclonic rifling tends to strip lead off the bullets and eventually obstructs the barrel. Then a bullet gets stuck and the barrel bulges. This is the lead danger. Chamber support has nothing to do with it.

All Glock aftermarket barrels will safely fire lead since they are all land and groove. I don't understand spending $120 to buy a barrel instead of spending an extra $10 or $15 per thousand on good jacketed reloading components. It would take 10,000 rounds just to break even!

TooTaxed
January 8, 2003, 10:27 PM
"Stans" is correct...Glock polygonal rifling is designed only for jacketed bullets and will lead up like crazy! If you want to shoot lead, get any aftermarket barrel with cut rifling.

JohnKSa
January 8, 2003, 11:18 PM
Actually, I currently own G19
Hmmm... :confused:

Can't decide if you are saying this because you think no one knows who you are, or if you really did get a G19 after saying repeatedly that you would never own a Glock again.

If you think your identity is in question, it's not. You're posting under a very similar username, debating the same topics, using the same jc-logic and even using exactly the same wording and in some cases the same (somewhat unusual) grammatical & spelling mistakes/oddities as at TFL.

If you got a Glock after swearing you never would again, then I have two things to say.

1. Welcome back to the world of Glock owners. :D
2. It's hard to take you seriously when you don't post the truth--you do remember posting that you didn't have a Glock and would never own another Glock don't you?

DAL
January 9, 2003, 12:00 AM
Man, I keep confusing things with this subject!
Okay, let me see if I have this straight. For lead bullets, a cut-rifled barrel is needed, correct? But what if I use FMJ bullets, reload them in used brass, and then use the factory Glock barrel--will there be a kB problem with this?

BTW, the factory reloads I have on hand, but which I haven't used yet, contain FMJ bullets. Will these be okay to use in the factory Glock barrel?
DAL :confused:

Handy
January 9, 2003, 01:04 AM
Generalization: 9mm pistols do not kaBoom.

Your Glock is 9mm. No worries.

TooTaxed
January 9, 2003, 11:17 PM
DAL, the FMJ bullets are what the factory glock barrel is designed for. Shoot 'em and have fun!

If you enjoyed reading about "Aftermarket barrel for LEAD reloads for Glock 26?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!