Bought an Ishapore Enfield 2A


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cratz2
January 4, 2003, 03:38 PM
Went browsing at the local shop that always has a large supply of surplus rifles to check out. They had three Enfields, none had rear peep sights (which is one of the reasons I was looking for an Enfield) and an Ishapore. These things are really pretty dang nice. Metal looks about 90% except for the receiver bridge which is maybe 50%. Wood looks great but the area where the butplate should screw in is cracked on the bottom so the plate doesn't stay on very well.

Haven't had a chance to shoot it as I've only owned it for about an hour and just finished getting her cleaned up... Man I love Enfields!

So... could of questions. First, if I want a scope mount, which Mk rifle mount would work? And second, where is a place to look for things like a replacement buttplate and/or rear sight parts?

Thanks for your help, guys. I'll post pics shortly but have to attend a wedding.:rolleyes: Some people are very inconsiderate of proud new rifle owners. :D

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Uncle Ethan
January 4, 2003, 04:23 PM
Is your Ishapore a .308 or .303? Is it a SMLE No1-MKIII?

PATH
January 4, 2003, 05:12 PM
I believe the Ishapores are all .308. Would somebody please verify?

Gewehr98
January 4, 2003, 06:00 PM
Basically carbon copies of the NoIMkIII SMLE guns during the days when the "Sun Never Set on the British Empire".

Some British-made SMLE's were FTR'd (arsenal rebuilt) in Ishapore, and their markings will be found on the rifles.

Indian-made .303 SMLE's came from Ishapore. Every now and then they crop up.

Lithgow of Australia made a carbon-copy of the WWI British NoIMkIII* SMLE. They had considered making the No4Mk1 version, but went instead with the older design. They omitted the stacking swivel when the gun was produced for Aussie issue during WWII. In the last year or so, Lithgow has once again tooled up to make brand-new NoIMkIII* SMLE rifles, this time as a collector's rifle.

Origin of the Ishapore 2A Lee-Enfield: Once the 7.62mm NATO round was in place, the Indians went with the SMLE action, albeit using a stronger steel, to come up with the 2A rifle, chambered in 7.62mm NATO. The bolt's extractor was changed, and the box magazine was redesigned to accomodate the shorter, less-tapered rimless round. They also adopted the FN-FAL in 7.62mm NATO.

BTW, scope mounts for the NoIMkIII* SMLE rifle WILL NOT work on the Ishapore 2A, the receiver geometry is just that much too different. When you order a no-gunsmithing mount from B-Square, make sure it says Ishapore 2A on the description.

Lone Star
January 5, 2003, 07:26 AM
For those who don't know, that FTR mark on some SMLE's means, "Factory Thorough Repair".


Lone Star

cratz2
January 5, 2003, 10:38 AM
Thanks for the replies guys. Good to have more info on my newest toy. :)

cratz2
January 5, 2003, 08:54 PM
A couple of pics of my new baby.

http://photos.imageevent.com/cratz2/guns//Enfield1.jpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/cratz2/guns//Enfield2.jpg

Robus
March 31, 2007, 12:00 AM
Judging by the aluminum butt plate it looks like you got an Ishapore SMLE 2A or 2A1, both chambered for 7.62 NATO. I own a 1966 2A1. Nice rifle. There has been a lot of discussion over whether or not it's a good idea to use commercial .308. I wouldn't do it. As far as I know, only two commercial .308 rounds have been tested and found to produce lower pressure than the NATO round, and can be considered safe. Those are the Federal Low Recoil .308 Power Shock and the Remington 125 grain Core-lokt PSP Managed Recoil .308. You can find these tests by poking around the 2A section on Surplusrifle.com. Midway is selling some surplus Winchester 7.62 NATO spec ammunition right now, boxer primed, non-corrosive. It's a little pricy but once you have the brass you're set.

To answer somebody's question, not all Ishapores were chambered in .308. Back in the colonial period, Rifle Factory Ishapore produced regular .303 SMLEs. It was after independence that the Indian factory switched to the NATO round.

Enjoy your rifle. It looks like a nice one. You can find butt stocks for them, pretty cheap. As far as I know, it's no different from any SMLE. I just wish I could find a backsight leaf spring for mine.

nwilliams
March 31, 2007, 12:27 AM
Congrats on the new rifle.

Enfields are great shooters I really love mine, although the one I have now is a Brit. I had an Ishapore a few years ago but sold it, it was chambered in .308 and to play it safe I never shot anything but 7.62 Nato through it.

The only scope mount that will work on yours (as far as I know) is the No.1 MKIII & Ishapore .308 Scope Mount, you can find them here:

http://www.gunaccessories.com/MilitaryScopeMounts/Enfield/index.asp

As for replacement I would try Brownells and Numrich, you should be able to track down anyting you need fairly easily, you could even try ebay.

http://www.brownells.com/

http://www.e-gunparts.com/

Jeremy2171
March 31, 2007, 03:32 AM
My 2A is 7.62 and 1965 dated.

My Ishy No1Mk3 is .303 and 1986 dated...I think '89 was the last year they made any.

skypirate7
March 31, 2007, 05:49 AM
My Enfield 2A is 1964 dated. The bore condition is EXCELLENT, and that seems to be pretty typical for these Indian surplus rifles. It's a sweet shooter.

4fingermick
March 31, 2007, 08:33 AM
Blunt object! If yo are worried about the strength, I'd worry about NATO F4, that stuff is hot. My mate has one and it is truely awful, but he loves it and has put several cases of mil sup through it. He bought three cases with 800 odd rounds in each (I think) when he bought the gun some years ago and he asked recently if I would reload some for him. He hasn't got back to me yet, so he must be getting through it.

Gehwer, Lithgow is the town in the Central West of NSW where the Small Arms Factory is located. It is no longer operated by the Goverment and calls itself ADI (Australian Defence Industries). A long history of quality arms manafacture and an excellent small arms museum. I live in the next town and used to shoot on the range behind the factory frequently. I have just moved back home and retired, I must get the belly on the mound there again. The ADI powders, which is sold in the States under the HOdgson label is made in a sister factory in the next state.

If anyone is coming to Australia, let me know and I will take you there and get you into the reserve armooury upstairs (closed to the public, it's like Aladdin's cave for shooters :). The Australian Army Infanty Centre Museum is a couple or three hours drive from there, also a good day out!

lee n. field
March 31, 2007, 10:28 AM
Is your Ishapore a .308 or .303? Is it a SMLE No1-MKIII?

The 2A is chambered for 7.62x51.

Robus
March 31, 2007, 03:54 PM
My Ishy No1Mk3 is .303 and 1986 dated...I think '89 was the last year they made any.

Jeremy, are you sure about that date? This is the first I've ever heard of Ishapore producing .303 SMLEs after the 1950s. My understanding is that they went entirely to the Nato round in the early 1960s and continued with that until they stopped manufacturing those rifles some time in the 1970s.

Could you post a picture of the markings on the right side of the buttstock socket?

Robus
April 4, 2007, 05:16 AM
As it turns out Ishapore did make a run of .303 SMLEs after they discontinued the 7.62 Nato 2A1 in 1970. They continued until with the .303about 1974 when they stopped making Enfields forever, far as I know.

skypirate7
April 4, 2007, 12:00 PM
If you have a 1986 Enfield, the guys at www.surplusrifle.com DEFINITELY want to know about it. Take some pics and show them. They're dedicated to the history of milsurps and they have been trying to verify that India produced Enfields in the 80's.

MrDig
April 4, 2007, 01:11 PM
Judging from the aluminum Buttplate? The Magazine configuration was the tell that the pic is of a 2 or 2A.
Sorry the butt plate is not a serious means of ID.

Robus
April 4, 2007, 03:28 PM
You're right. I was just commenting on the general look of the gun, including the aluminum buttplate and the square 12 round magazine, both hallmarks of a 2A/2A1. The real proof is what's stamped on the receiver and barrel.

Cortland
April 4, 2007, 05:12 PM
I bought an Enfield 2A recently, too. Cosmetically it was a real mess when it arrived. I've since re-parkerized it and it turned out to be a sharp looking rifle. I've only fired enough to say that it groups reasonably well.

Click to embiggen:
http://www.vbrpc.org/enfield1t.jpg (http://www.vbrpc.org/enfield1.jpg)

http://www.vbrpc.org/enfield2t.jpg (http://www.vbrpc.org/enfield2.jpg)

DMK
April 4, 2007, 07:00 PM
That looks nice Cortland. Did you repark it yourself, or send it out?

Cortland
April 4, 2007, 07:01 PM
That is my own work. Parkerizing is very easy to do, but it is equipment intensive.

Robus
April 5, 2007, 01:31 AM
Very nice, Courtland. Very nice indeed. I just polished off the gunk and removed the black paint and reblued.

How long did it take you to clean it up?

I have to tell you, I love my .303 Lee Enfields but these Ishy 2A/2A1s have a mojo of their own that I'm starting to appreciate. I'm tempted to buy another while AIM still has them relatively cheap.

Sunray
April 5, 2007, 02:17 AM
"...re-parkerized..." They were never parkerized. Not that it matters.
"...had considered making the No4Mk1..." Nope. The Aussies decided that the No. 1 worked just fine so why spend the money.

Atla
May 2, 2008, 05:35 PM
http://www.surplusrifle.com/shooting/oddshot2/index.asp

An article on the myth of .308 Indian Enfields 'KB'ing'.

It can handle a .308 round just fine and dandy. And was DESIGNED to do so.

Buy one, shoot it, enjoy it. It's a good deal for a detachable box mag .308 rifle.

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
May 2, 2008, 05:54 PM
Not exactly. Don't rely on anything that that article says. It refers to a cartridge called

.308 NATO Since there IS NO such animal, the whole article is entirely unreliable.

The rifle was most certainly DESIGNED for the 7.62x51mm round. You can shoot the hotter .308 winchester at your own peril. It will probably work without issue, but it wasn't designed for that.

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