S&B squib in my CZ 75 Compact.


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Zak Smith
January 5, 2003, 03:27 PM
I was out shooting my 75 Compact last week. Ammo was factory S&B 115gr FMJ. There was a "click" but no "BANG". Ejected the round and noticed that the cartridge looked "fired", i.e. no bullet.

I then fully cleared the pistol and the barrel was obstructed. The bullet had been pushed far enough down the barrel - just in front of the chamber - so that a subsequent round would have chambered fine. Firing again would have probably meant a KB!

Solution consisted of a 5" length of wooden dowel and a hammer.

Being observant pays off.

-z

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4v50 Gary
January 5, 2003, 03:30 PM
Good for you. What was the interior of the case like? Was it relatively clean or was there some indication that some powder had been burnt? I'm wonder if it was only primer and no powder.

Zak Smith
January 5, 2003, 03:48 PM
Well, S&B ammo is really dirty anyway, but this case was extra filthly, especially on the outside -- like you see when you're shooting low-power rifle or revolver loads and the brass doesn't expand to form a seal.

I have fired empty cases with primers only before - and they are LOUD. This had no noise, and the sound of the hammer dropping was inaudible with my earplugs in. My guess is that since the barrel was completely sealed since the bullet didn't exit, all sound from the primer was squelched and could not "escape."

-z

JeepDriver
January 5, 2003, 04:32 PM
I had several S&B squibs from lot # 2402. Had on stuck in the barrel or a 92 FS. I called S&B they sent a call tag for the unused ammo and then replaced it with a new lot #. No further problems.

Come to think of it that lot had a large ammount of muzzle flash as well.

Be Safe

Matt G
January 5, 2003, 05:33 PM
Interesting.

While my personal experience with S&B rifle ammunition has been that it is excellent, I've quit depending on S&B pistol ammo, after having several FTF with 9mm out of my P11. My P11 never shows problems with other ammo; just the S&B, which seems to have harder primers. Detent noticed, but no fire.

The very first time I qualified with my P-11 as a backup gun at my P.D., I was a newly-sworn officer, and lots of the guys in my department were closely watching to see how the new guy shot. I was allowed to qualify with any factory ammo for my BUG, so I used a box of S&B. During the qual, my P11 experienced 4 failures to fire in 50 rounds!:what: My embarrassment was huge! I was red in the face! The R.O., however, publicly complimented me on my Slap-Rack-Bang drills with good qual scores and decent times. On subsequent occasions, I had other FTF with that same lot; S&B pistol ammo is now practice only, for me. However, that may have just been a bad lot, and YMMV. Wish I'd done the responsible thing, and called in the lot #, too.

jrhines
January 5, 2003, 06:13 PM
While I've seen several posts on FTF, I've not seen many on squibs, or what I was taught to call "pop-no-kick". This is one of the things that are very easily overlooked in new shooter training. A FTF is cleared without checking the barrel, and viola', much excitement. Well, I know I'm preaching to the choir, but it is good to see this thing resurface. I'm taking some newbi’s to the range next week, just one more thing on the "stuff to mention" list

J.Rhines
Seneca, MD

Zak Smith
January 5, 2003, 09:57 PM
I think I'm done shooting S&B pistol ammo too, after this case is finished up. Even without the squibs, it's just way too dirty. I already picked up a case of Dynamit-Nobel "GEKO" instead.

Who can say what's the best to do in a click-no-boom situation? I see a potential conflict here: While target shooting, you can take your time and carefully check to see the barrel is unobstructed. (You can usually see light through the breech end with the action open.) While training for self-defense (e.g. IDPA, or actual formal training), if you do this, it may get you killed in a real scenario since you won't tap-rack-bang instinctively.

Comments?

Lone_Gunman
January 5, 2003, 11:02 PM
I dont think S&B is any more dirty than any other brand.

I have never had any kind of ammo failure with S&B.

Zak Smith
January 5, 2003, 11:10 PM
With regard to "dirty" ammo:

My Glocks run "clean" on just about everything. It must be something about the timing or the design. My CZ's and my HK USP, when I had it, seemed to collect a lot more powder fouling in the action, slide, and frame... so for those, I try to choose ammo that burns cleaner.

-z

larryw
January 5, 2003, 11:19 PM
S&B is funny stuff.

Its my absolute favorite 45ACP practice factory ball ammo. Have shot tens of thousands of rounds of it with not a single problem. 45 ammo is very clean, accurate and pretty hot. Only complaint is the red primer sealer can gum up the firing pin if you don't clean the channel out (squirt of brake cleaner). Brass is awesome for reloading (wish I still had all the brass I swept down the range before I started reloading. :rolleyes: ).

9MM and 40 S&W, OTOH had been problematic. Dirty, inaccurate and inconsistant in loading. Never had a squib, but I figure I lucked out. What was funny was the brass and bullets weren't bright and shiny like their 45ACP ammo, but lightly tarnished.

Zak Smith
January 5, 2003, 11:31 PM
larryw,

A friend of mine has shot a lot of S&B .45ACP in her Kimber with no problems, too.

-z

Lochaber
January 6, 2003, 01:12 AM
I really wonder if there are some older batches still on the market or something. Myself and a bunch of friends shoot S&B stuff almost to the exclusion of everything else. Myself I've had two hard primers in my CZ75B out of about 3000 rounds. Most of the times this matches what my friends see as well. However just a few weeks ago, one of them was having a heck of a time. She had maybe %50 of two boxes fail to go boom. At first we thought it was her new P99, but we tried some of the same batch in our guns and still no boom.

I wonder if they have multiple plants or maybe something intresting like one of their loading machines failing because their problems seem to be coming in batches.

Loch

Daguerre
January 6, 2003, 01:45 AM
I've shot a couple thousand rounds of S&B .45 FMJ with no problems at all, but I've heard of problems in other calibers. Almost seems like S&B .45 FMJ is very reliable stuff, but that their smaller caliber ammo is not as "bullet-proof". :rolleyes: I think I'll avoid S&B in .40 and 9mm myself. Too scary.

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