Need help from older NYPD copper re:holster


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mike45
February 17, 2007, 11:25 AM
A short while ago I bought what I think is an old style open top NYPD holster. I had heard about them years ago from a retired NY sergeant.

Just need to know about the draw. The sergeant said it was the original "security holster" with the leather retainer sewn inside. Did the officers have to work with it a lot for a smooth draw? It seems like it requires a twisting action along with shoving your thumb inside between the gun and the holster interrior.

I also thought I remember a pen or pencil holder sewn into the outside of the holster.

I'd appreciate any information.

Mike

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GRIZ22
February 17, 2007, 11:47 AM
I don't think there was ever any intention of a "smooth draw" with these holsters. They were intended to provide retention with any kind of draw a secondary consideration. They were easier to draw with when the operator had practiced several hundred times and the holster was well broken in but never anything one could call a smooth draw.

wcwhitey
February 17, 2007, 11:55 AM
You put your trigger finger along side the cylinder while grabbing he gun. This will push the extra leather away from the cylinder and the gun will draw freely. Sounds complicated but works very well, may take a little getting used too. The extra leather grabs the cylinder and keeps it in the holster. Your finger becomes the wedge to push it asside. Once the gun starts to come out you finger is free to place on the trigger if need be. I have found that using both the trigger finger and the middle finger will work better if it is a new and stiff holster. Nice swivel by the way. The swivel makes riding in a car easier, swivel it right into your lap. LOL Bill



P.S. I have seen over the years pen and pencil sets (not authorized) and older versions of the holster you have that hold six cartridges at the belt. Mostly the pen holders were worn on the belt in a separate holder. No longer so, no they go in the shirt pocket.

mike45
February 17, 2007, 11:44 PM
Thanks for the info guys. I'm fascinated by the NYPD. Should have gone there in the 70's before I had Wife, Kids, House, Job here in Ohio.

RustyShackelford
February 18, 2007, 03:13 AM
I think the NYPD used a company called JayPee or Jay something for duty gear/holsters. I'd look around at some of the NYC area film/TV prop houses or maybe check the NYPD's police museum or public affairs office.

Rusty S

GRIZ22
February 18, 2007, 03:32 AM
I think the NYPD used a company called JayPee or Jay something for duty gear/holsters.

The company's name is Jay Pee. Don't know if they are still in business. The quality was okay and I think their main attraction to the city was they were cheap. The leather wasn't the best and everything was single stitched as I recall. It would give reasonable service but no where near the quality of De Santis, Bianchi, Safariland or one of the other quality manufacturers. I still have a few pieces of Jay Pee leather around, most of it given to me when guys could afford something better.

wcwhitey
February 18, 2007, 09:42 AM
You are correct. JayPee is one of the bigger ones, Cobra Gunskin was one for a while as well. There are many knockoffs around. However, I would rather have JayPee back as apposed to Safariland. Have been using their level III holster and mag pouch since 93 and I am on my second set. Cracks, splits, just simulated plastic junk. I still have my JayPee swivel sitting in my locker with an old NY1 Model 64 (the last of the revolvers) and it is in great shape. All my concealment holstes are Bianchi, they are a New York Company and have always given attention to the needs of NYPD members. In case you guys are wondering you finally outed me. Bill


Mike, if you would have came in the 70's you would have worked for sure. If you need any further help with the holster shoot me a message.

mike45
February 18, 2007, 10:59 AM
Thanks Whitey.

This is a Jay Pee holster. Quality is not too bad. I would prefer it to the Jordan holster I was issued when I started. The gun fell out of mine on a few occasions when running or wrestling.

I only work part time now and qualify with the issued Glock 19 and a Safariland plastic and fake leather holster. Since our department requires us to qualify with an off duty gun I may use this holster with the pencil barrel mod. 10 to see if I can raise the eyebrows of the younger guys and gals (some, who have never shot a revolver!)

mike

OH25shooter
February 18, 2007, 01:22 PM
Mike,

Those old style holsters are ancient compared to the issued equipment today. I agree, they are fascinating to own and inspect. My first issued holster in 1971 was the departmental flap/swivel holster. Carried the S&W M10. Was nice getting in and out of the cruiser with the swivel. But, retention and drawing the weapon was hampered. The flap did however, keep your gun clean and dry.

mtncat
February 18, 2007, 01:35 PM
Have one similar to that only it has 6 loops on the top for ammo and then they BIG thing. It is a "security holster" Weapon is held in the holster by a little spring loaded clip that latches to the trigger guard. To remove the weapon you insert your trigger finger in the trigger guard, press the clip and pull weapon:eek:

MTS Cop
February 18, 2007, 05:55 PM
A lot of the older guys I work with hated those holsters. They used to carry the gun "unlocked" so they could actually draw it in time. JayPee is junk as far as I'm concerned. When I first came out people gave me some JayPee stuff and I've never used it, I probably threw most of it out. And I too hate that plastic and fake leather Safariland holster. Mine is practically new and I'm already wondering how long it wil last.

Dienekes
February 19, 2007, 10:07 PM
I acquired a bag full (about 10) of them a while back, condition ranging from pretty good to so-so. I am still grateful that I was never issued such a POS in my day.

Anyone wanting one for a curio and relic can PM me. Give me a zip code and you can have one for nominal S&H. As worthless as they are I can't quite bring myself to trash them...

wcwhitey
February 19, 2007, 10:46 PM
I acquired a bag full (about 10) of them a while back, condition ranging from pretty good to so-so. I am still grateful that I was never issued such a POS in my day.

I have never heard of a fellow MOS being hurt because he could not get to his gun in time due to the lock. It is true that everyone was aware of the holsters short comings and unlocking the revolver prior to a car stop or percieved threat was and is (a few still out there) common. For most I imagine it only took a few hours in front of the mirror to get smooth with it. The complicated motions of the Safariland was difficult at first too, lightning fast now.

footpost
November 15, 2008, 05:35 PM
The name of the holster you show in your picture is a Jay-Pee holster that NYPD had with their own special holster design. This model by Jay-Pee had a heavy leather strip sewn inside the holster pouch that acted on the revolver cylinder to keep the gun secure from snatch attempts. This information was gathered from Gunblast.com. This holster was designed for a Colt or S & W .38 revolver 4" BBL 6-shot.

pbearperry
November 15, 2008, 05:45 PM
NYPD has always been different regarding to leather for duty.They like that loose,floppy,go every which way while you are running type of leather.I think it's a cult thing.

Ron James
November 15, 2008, 05:55 PM
Most police officers are not gun people, In fact most of the old timers did not even clean their gun, but rather spayed them down with WD-40 prior to roll call. And yes, that did cause problems when the gun went click instead of bang. As stated, a fast draw had less priority than security. To most officers a holster was only something to carry their gun in. A nice handy thing to have, nothing more.

Elmer
November 17, 2008, 03:08 AM
All my concealment holstes are Bianchi, they are a New York Company and have always given attention to the needs of NYPD members.

Bianchi? New York company?

Not hardly.....

Started in California when John was making them in his garage while he was a Monrovia cop.... later opened his factory in Temecula.....

Unfortunately, John hasn't owned it for a quite a few years, and the conglomerate that owns them now has been shifting production to Mexico......

:barf:

wcwhitey
November 17, 2008, 09:58 AM
Elmer, should have read DeSantis, but thanks for the 8 month old correction. Anyway I will move on!

Japle
November 17, 2008, 10:39 AM
As I recall, the holsters issued in the '50s (and maybe later) were made of cheap skirting leather and sewn with cotton thread. At first, they were so tight that you could barely get the gun in and drawing was a two-handed feat. After the holster had been through a few rainy patrol shifts, it got so loose the gun would fall out if you ran after a perp.

The really funny one was the "clamshell" holster that popped open when you pushed a button. Once the kids on your beat figured out the trick, you spent a lot of time picking your gun up off the sidewalk. One of the actors on "Adam 12" carried his gun in one. There was a scene where he drew his weapon and the got into a foot pursuit. The open holster flapped around like crazy and he could hardly run at all. Very funny scene.

Amazjohn2
August 18, 2010, 05:01 AM
I have read some of the instructions that people have placed in an answer to someone from Ohio's inquiry. Initially the holster has a very thick lip in the inside closest to to your body. This lip engages the revolver's cylinder.
To free the weapon you have to use your left hand to hold the holster in place, initially push down, then while holding the stock push away from your body, this will cause a gap between the retention lip and the weapon, get your thumb in to maintain the spacing and pull out the weapon. It requires practice. By the way, initially your thumb will get raw around the cuticle. To avoid this discomfort, go to a stationary store they sell a rubber finger tip that aids banking tellers in counting currency, this will protect your cuticle kind of like a glove for just your thumb.

If you do it with practice, you will get fast at it.

Amazjohn2
August 18, 2010, 05:12 AM
The Jay Pee Swivel Holster was not a bad holster. Just as cumbersome as it was for us to draw from, the average perp didn't even want to try to take our weapon. The reason the holster had a swivel was so that gravity always kept the weapon point toward the ground. I remember one of our guys shot someone while the weapon was holstered. It must have been like a Wild Bill Hickcock shot. For the record, we always ran with our hand on the weapon...it seemed to make us ready at the end of the chase.

Amazjohn2
August 18, 2010, 05:18 AM
That sounds like second or third generation. I remember that the NYS Troopers used that holster with the bandolero top. That holster, if memeory serves me well used to point back at 30 degrees to the ground and always leaned away from the body. The State Troopers were fast with it though. I guess you have to be when you have no partner.

Sam1911
August 18, 2010, 08:20 AM
Three year old thread, ressurected twice now.

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