Isn’t that cheating?


PDA






jptsr1
June 7, 2003, 09:53 AM
I don’t mean this in an accusatory tone, but for those of you who have a “special” gun and carry rig for IDPA, does it feel like you are cheating a bit? I'm going to be participating in my first IDPA event soon and ill be shooting my G26 out of a Royal Guard because its as close to how I carry every day as I can get (I actually carry it in a pocket holster or on my ankle). As I'm researching the boards looking for tips and tricks, I see a lot of post referring to “my IDPA rig” or “the gun I use for IDPA”. Are you supposed to shoot what you carry or what you can carry?

J

If you enjoyed reading about "Isn’t that cheating?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
Pat S
June 7, 2003, 10:31 AM
Some approach IDPA as a training exercise with their carry gear. For others it is merely a gun game like IPSC. Both can play the game, just accept the fact that the "gamers" will be posting the best scores. If you approach the stages from a tactical aspect to where the bad guy targets in the stage could shoot back you will be dreadfully slow on most stages, but tactically sound.

If you're looking for tactical exercises you won't find them in IDPA you'll have to look elsewhere. What you will get is an opportunity to refine your shooting and gun manipulation skills under a slight amount of stress.

Once you've gotten your gun handling skills up to the level you would like you might look into scenario based tactical exersises. Especially if you carry a gun for self defense. You'll probably have to seek out a training school for these.


Stay Safe, Pat S

jptsr1
June 7, 2003, 10:46 AM
Thanks Pat S

I obviously had the wrong idea about IDPA. I read an article in one of the many gun rags I get and it gave me the impression that IDPA was something different. Still sounds cool to me though so I'm gonna give it a try. Even though I get much better groups with my Sig I think I’m still gonna shoot what I carry. Odds are if it ever hits the fan the G26 is gonna be what I’m working with so the more practice the better.

J.

Delmar
June 7, 2003, 11:37 AM
jptsr1


Give it a try-it is a lot of fun-sure, there are going to be the occasional whiners, but they get theirs in the end too. Watched a guy literally throw the new mag out of his new Hi-power which kept jamming on him, and a half dozen of us asked him if we should count that as a miss, seeing as how he missed the target! Our group has young and old alike-one elderly gentleman has arthritis so bad that he cannot go double action on his M27 Smith, so he thumb cocks it for every shot. If you are a bad guy-do not let him do this! I have seen him place several shots into the same hole at 25 yards with full house reloads-just takes him a bit longer to do it. He will probably never win a match, but if the the guys who set the scenarios have any decency about them, they will set up something soon to cater to this gentleman's handicap too. Still and all, it is a great feeling to see the smile on his face.

another okie
June 7, 2003, 12:02 PM
It depends on how big and strong your competitiveness gene is.
If you want to win really bad, you'll probably shoot a Glock 34.
If you can handle a slight disadvantage to get some practice in with your carry gun, then shoot your Glock 26. I do a little of both.

Andrew Wyatt
June 7, 2003, 12:13 PM
I plan on shooting my 1911, which is the only pistol i have, and would be my carry pistol if i had a ccw.



I'm wierd, though, and my HD shotgun is also my 3-gun shotgun, my 3 gun rifle is my shtf gun, etc.

jdkelly
June 7, 2003, 08:19 PM
jptsr1,

I guess you can take what you want from IDPA. For me it's a game, if it wasn't they wouldn't keep score. I try to use the equipment I already own (some I can't), but if I have to buy equipment, I get the items that are well suited for the game(s).

Once I have what I need, I work on those things that will improve my score. Would I like to win, sure. Is that going to happen, no. My enjoyment stems from shooting, improving a bit, and the people involved in the shooting sports.

Enjoy,

jdkelly

BigG
June 7, 2003, 08:39 PM
Most of the *cough* practical *cough* types of sports, including shooting, start off with their hearts in the right place but quickly become exercises in who can bend the rules the most without breaking them. It's human nature. Think of Sammy Soza with the corked "practice" bat. That's practical baseball. Don't get caught seems to be the watchword.

Why does IPSC have $4,000 rigs that you can't hardly conceal in a briefcase? Because the rules say you can. IDPA is not far behind.

faustulus
June 8, 2003, 03:22 AM
Shooting any of the practical sports will make you a better shooter, much better than the people who just sit back at 25 yards. I know I was one of them. But the main reason to play is because it is so much fun. Some people golf, some swim, I shoot. I maintain that IDPA and IPSC are just golf with guns, bullets instead of balls. Try it I think you will be hooked. Usually everyone starts with the gun they carry then maybe move up, if they like it. Here's a secret if you are good with your IPSC race rig, chances are you are good with your carry gun. Is anyone under the impression that because Michael Schumacher drives a formula 1 Ferrari he can't drive a Civic better than 99% of the world?

Tim Burke
June 8, 2003, 09:13 AM
Some of us compete with one gun, and carry a similar gun. When one of the guns finally breaks something, chances are it's the gun with a lot of rounds through it, not the carry gun.
Carry gun gets fired for function testing and cleaning periodically. Occasionally I'll shoot a match with a carry gun.

mattburkett.com
June 9, 2003, 03:24 PM
"Here's a secret if you are good with your IPSC race rig, chances are you are good with your carry gun."

Great statement! People that can shoot, can shoot anything. You won't find a highlevel IPSC open shooter that can't shoot a limited or IDPA gun.

Remember that if there is a clock and a scoresheet, it is a game. Please do not think that IDPA is tactical or can be approached that way. It is a test of shooting skills from concealment under pressure and can be a heck of a lot of fun. It will help develop your shooting skills and your carry equipment if you choose to use it. If you want to develop your "tactical" skills, go to an FOF class and learn what happens when people are actually shooting back.

Take care,

Correia
June 9, 2003, 03:56 PM
I use a full size 1911 for my CCW. So HA! :D

Seriously though. No game can ever be 100% realistic, but since I can't afford to go to Thunder ranch 12 times a year, and the local police frown upon getting in gunfights for practice, IDPA is the next best thing.

It is far better practice than informal plinking. There is a level of pressure, and best of all there is no do over and there is no ignoring your bad shots or errors. Formal competition forces you to see your weaknesses.

If I had to get into a gunfight, and I could choose my opponent from either A. a serious IDPA or IPSC competitor, or B. a regular gun guy/joe plinker. I would pick B every time. :)

Jeeper
June 9, 2003, 07:29 PM
Anything with a timer is a game. It will imensly improve your gun handling though. I shoot a Para p-14 in IDPA and I carry a P-13. Basically the same thing.

The competitive shooters (Like Matt Burkett) are the best gun handlers around. They can pick up ANYTHING and shoot it well.

Andrew Wyatt
June 9, 2003, 08:38 PM
damn. i guess that class i took last week was a game, since they timed us on parts of it.

Dr.Who
June 10, 2003, 12:02 AM
Gee, does that mean that if I'm in a class and to recieve credit i must be there 8 hours or so... That is a game as well??? It's timed... or if I punch in a time clock for work then punch out for lunch or break... That work is a game? (this maybe more true than you think) Being born starts the clock, death stops the clock... Life must be a game...

I know what you mean, just play'n the devil....:banghead:

Enjoy...

jptsr1
June 12, 2003, 12:52 PM
"Is anyone under the impression that because Michael Schumacher drives a formula 1 Ferrari he can't drive a Civic better than 99% of the world?"


faustulus-
No that is not the impression I am under at all. but are you under the impression that if Mr. Schumacher takes the civic you mentioned and adds pro-stock tires, a sport suspension and a nitrous oxide injection system that he would not gain an additional advantage above and beyond what his skill as a driver alone would have provided?

J.

faustulus
June 13, 2003, 01:07 AM
jptsr1

No that is not the impression I am under at all. but are you under the impression that if Mr. Schumacher takes the civic you mentioned and adds pro-stock tires, a sport suspension and a nitrous oxide injection system that he would not gain an additional advantage above and beyond what his skill as a driver alone would have provided?

I am willing to bet that most other drivers could have all that stuff done to a civic and Shuey could have a stock and he would still win.
My point is skill matters more than equipment. Almost everyone I know thinks IPSC is more of an equipment race. Funny, my friend was winning IPSC matches with his stock taurus, before he bought his SV. Many times people are comparing what the grandmasters are doing, you know when you get to grand master level then worry about it.
People lose to faster shooters then blame their equipment more times than the equipment cost them a win. Of course there is no rule that says you con't shoot just about anything in IPSC. IDPA on the other hand...

BigG
June 13, 2003, 07:13 AM
It's very typical for people to try to use equipment to fix problems that should be addressed thru training. That way they don't have to blame themselves. Sensitive egos in these new age guys. :o It wasn''t me. It was this :cuss: firearm! Bsides I can't shoot worth a damn with iron sights. Oh yeah, and I HATE recoil. :uhoh:

El Rojo
June 13, 2003, 10:07 AM
I tend to look at it as practice. If I use my Glock 27, 870P , and my M1A at a three gun match, I might be at a disadvantage. I will just see how good I can do with what I have. What I have is all that I got, so no need to worry about anything else. Be good with what you have and be confident in your own skills. For those guys that beat you, make them your friends and not your enemies. :D

Correia
June 13, 2003, 12:07 PM
On the flip side of a coin, winning a local match with basic stock equipment is the best feeling in the world. :)

Whooping the pants off of the cocky guy with a ported 24 inch barrel, 12 shot, red dot sighted 1100 with your stock 18 inch, bead sighted, 6+1, 870 riot gun has got to be the single coolest thing you can do. :D

Skunkabilly
June 13, 2003, 12:30 PM
Since I suck, I usually win by watching the Para mags crap up (if my buddies don't have time to clean them between stages), and my buddie's +2 Glock extension blow out from under his magazine (not the manufacturer's fault, it's the wrong caliber, but it fits and he doesn't care since it's just a game)...and hopefully someone will make a bad batch of reloads. Skunky win!

I'm usually the only guy shooting .308 at 3-gun. Turns out those manly .45 men that tease me for shooting 9mm only shoot .223s :D

.223 on steel at 100 = dink.
.308 on steel at 100 = *BING!!*

E357
June 13, 2003, 03:28 PM
I'm not all that impressed by the "great" IPSC or IDPA shooters especially when they use the tricked-out race guns and "plan-out" just how many steps it takes to get from firing position 1 to position 2, etc. I've always considered a man in a modified weaver or isosceles stance as just a "bigger target". Remember there may actually be two BGs shooting back.

Most of the guns games I've been to have deteriorated (in my opinion). I guess that's just human nature. We've tried "carry only", "revolver only", "iron sights only", "snubby 100 yards only", "hand cannon only" shoots. The only thing that actually kept most people coming back is when they can score higher. Don't even get me started on the Cowboys matches.

Elliot

Jeeper
June 13, 2003, 05:08 PM
E357,

You are kind of hitting 2 points. The "game" of IPSC or IDPA is just that. In order to win you will plan your steps and shots like a golfer or basketball player would. No difference. The guns that are used are designed to be optimal for each set of rules.

I GUARANTEE that the top shooters can outshoot anyone with ANY gun.

One of the best USPSA shooters named Dave Sevigny uses a completely stock glock(17 I think in IDPA and 35 in USPSA IIRC). Nothing changed. It is their skill that is impressive. The game has nothing to do with it.

jptsr1
June 13, 2003, 07:47 PM
WOW! Thanks for all the responses, this thread has been enlightening. I probably should have started it with “aren’t you cheating yourself” instead of “isn’t that cheating”. Frankly I don’t give a rats rear if Joey Sixguns can shoot the privates off a fly at 100yards. My old man has always said “the only reason for a grown man to dwell on the accomplishments of others is so that he might in some way improve himself.”

I’m looking for fun, practice and to meet some people who have similar interest (that being firearms). It sounds like all of the games you guys have mentioned will provide what I’m looking for. I’m gonna go to my first IDPA match next weekend at Rivana in Charlottesville just to get a taste. I plan on signing up for one up at the NRA range in Fairfax shortly after that.

Thanks again Fellas

J.

Navy joe
June 13, 2003, 08:44 PM
Agreed, it's cheating yourself of life experience, not the game. I shot another club level IDPA last night. The club usually does not mandate a cover garment for non-classifier matches. One other person wore cover as prep for heading off to some big matches.

My match prep started at home. I almost put on running shoes, but then I stopped myself and put on the leather dress shoes I had been wearing. I got to the range and downloaded my G17 at the car then went inside. I replaced the very hi-cap mags of GDHP in my carrier with 10rds of range ammo and them went and shot. I purposefully did not walk through the one stage that had room clearing and blind targets from the start position.

All in all I got a good look at my walked in off the street carry methods. I even shot ok considering it was my second IDPA match and I hung 9 penalty points on one stage for thinking about those goofy reloads and forgetting to do all that silly strong/ weak hand only strings. :rolleyes: oops...

I don't know what to think of my draw. From concealment I put a centered hit on a 12yd target in 2.09. I was conscious of a pause looking fer that front sight.

I did see many others shooting their carry stuff too, but there are plenty with IDPA only guns and loads.

I'm not all that impressed by the "great" IPSC or IDPA shooters especially when they use the tricked-out race guns and "plan-out" just how many steps it takes to get from firing position 1 to position 2, etc. I've always considered a man in a modified weaver or isosceles stance as just a "bigger target". Remember there may actually be two BGs shooting back.

The really good ones would impress you with a 5 shot snubbie. That racegun did not jump out of a magic lake or get pulled from a stone and bestow some magical shooting ability on them. They practice :what: and they are good.

The stances. First off, most everyone will assume some sort of modified isosceles under stress. Second it is very fast, stable and natural pointing. You cannot shoot at that bigger target if you were shot already by the fast fella using it. Second, a bladed stance offers plenty of vitals in it's own right and is really less than ideal if in body armor. Third, who needs a stance when you are running for cover?

Edit: Just to corrupt the new guy. http://vamdsection.org/ IPSC near you at NVPS, Black Creek, Fredricksburg, North Mountain etc... Also check out the IDPA at Cavalier and Black Creek.

E357
June 14, 2003, 01:27 AM
Oh! I'm not questioning the ability of the top game shooters - or any shooters for that matter - I just don't find the games much different than regular Target Practice. People behave and shoot very differently in combat. I DO like watching when the top shooters use real stock autos and revolvers. But even the "factory" shooters gun's are not the same guns that you or I can just walk in and buy.

The various Force on Force type exercises are much realistic and even more so when you put down $20 or $100 side bets and have precise scoring. Then NOBODY stands up in a weaver stance. The outcome of most combat is part skill, luck and lots of firepower.

I think I'm ranting because an IDPA match safety officer removed me from a match because I had my pinky finger inside the trigger guard of my revolver. The fact that the cylinder was not in the gun at the time made little difference to him. He said at the top of his voice about six times - "no fingers in the trigger guard!"

Elliot

OF
June 15, 2003, 11:40 AM
It seems to me that alot of the friction and complaining about these sports (and I've shot a total of one IPSC and one IDPA match at this point so I have a fairly fresh perspective) is generated by people comparing them to combat training and being disappointed. Either wishing the game was more like training, or wishing it wasn't and people would leave them alone and let them shoot the game they want to shoot.

Welcome to planet earth.

As far as I can see IPSC and IDPA are no more combat training than the Olympic javelin throw is African tribal warfare training.

You can't change that. It's, like was said above, human nature. Training is training and games are games. What you get out of the training is up to you and you alone, what you get out of the game is up to you and you alone. What is the major hangup about 'combat training'? If you want to shoot IDPA to polish your toolbox skills, then shoot your carry rig. The minute you start complaining about being beat on the scoreboard by the guy with the IDPA-only rig who spins to his gun side you just blew it. If you're there to polish your skills, what do you care what the other guy's score is?

If you are there to practice skills, ignore the clock and the scores. But the clock and the scores are there for people who want to play the game with clocks and scores competing against the other guy. You don't compete against the other guy by voluntarily foregoing advantages for yourself that the other guy may very well take. That's competition. In competiton you play to win. That's why they call it competition. When you aren't playing to win, they call it practice...stick a teacher in there and it's 'training'.

What the problem is with this I cannot for the life of me understand.

- Gabe

PS: Welcome to THR Matt! Great book by the way.

mattburkett.com
June 16, 2003, 04:39 PM
Gabe,
Thanks for the welcome! Great post BTW.

Here is the funny thing about this whole thread. Peoples egos. Some wannabe's that think their tactical get beat by someone just shooting the game and then they complain that the guy didn't do it with real gear! The problem isn't the guy playing the game and having fun. Its the people that suck at shooting in the first place and can't admit it and don't want to do anything about it. They are the ones that bitch and complain.

Just like every other sport, people that train, practice, and work at it, WIN no matter what the gun or gear is. I can do a .70 draw from a $20 Uncle Mikes holster with a stock glock at 10 yards. Does that mean its fun? No, shooting with that equipment sucks but I can do it.

I have worked with all sorts of mil, LE, and civ's around the world. Guess what? Fast shooting is fast shooting! When you learn how to hit the other guy, the rest is a lot easier. Most people that are allegedly "tactical" and talk about "what happens in real life" are full of it, have never had a gunfight, suck at shooting and can't even hit a target under stress or just standing there! If they would use the sports as a training aid (to learn how to shoot, move, shoot on the move, and handle stress) and then apply whatever tactics they are important for their real life situation, they will do exceedingly well when the SHTF.

The people that can, DO. The people that can't, COMPLAIN.

Wow, I kinda feel like Dennis Miller on a rant right now.

:evil:

Andrew Wyatt
June 16, 2003, 04:45 PM
eeh.


I'm mostly down on "untactical" stage design.

how many times are you going to need to shoot a 2X4 in half to save your life? (actual 3gun match stage), or transition from a fully working rifle to a fully working pistol and back multiple times, or mow down 30 targets with naught but a pistol?

Correia
June 16, 2003, 05:21 PM
Matt, couldn't agree more. I started a thread over in general discussion a few months ago about why don't shooters compete. It was about 5 pages long if I recall correctly. The biggest excuse was always something about how it wasn't realistic or "tactical" enough.

Got news for them, I was watching Discovery channel Sunday morning. They were showing Navy SEALs firearms training. Guess what they were doing? :) Running from improvised position, to improvised position, and shooting a 200 yard steel target. With an instructor with (gasp!) a PACT timer right behind them. :D My gosh that looks a lot like a 3 gun stage to me!

Andy, realism in stage design is fun. For a couple of stages. Then it gets dull. Seriously. Next year I'm the match director for our local 3 gun. That means I need to design about 50 stages. Sure, I could keep them all totally realistic, but you know what, shooting the one bad guy at 7 yards over and over again is going to get boring.

Take shotgun stages for example. If every shotgun stage consisted of 1-3 bad guys. 1-5 total rounds fired, I'm not going to have anybody come back to the next match. You have to balance realism with fun. The shooters are my customers, and my job is to satisfy my customers.

I know you are a big proponent of the WC3gun, I love it myself, but out of your stages last year there are several that could be described as unrealistic. Doesn't mean that they weren't super challenging and fun though.

And that is what it is all about. Fun. But the more fun you have, and the more work you put in, the better shooter you are going to become. Even when it is for real, the guy who shoots competitively and loves it is going to be a better shooter.

mattburkett.com
June 16, 2003, 09:44 PM
Correia,

Yes, I know how they train. :)

Andrew posted: I'm mostly down on "untactical" stage design.

how many times are you going to need to shoot a 2X4 in half to save your life? (actual 3gun match stage), or transition from a fully working rifle to a fully working pistol and back multiple times, or mow down 30 targets with naught but a pistol?

Well, I don't know about the 2x4 thing. Haven't seen that myself. A match is a test of skills. Transition drills are good things to work on tactically. So what if you do multiples in a stage, you do multiples in tactical training to get good at them right? As for the mowing down 30 targets, did you ever see Black Hawk Down? BTW there were transitions too!

:D

Andrew Wyatt
June 16, 2003, 10:11 PM
I realize that transitioning to pistol is a good skill to have, but I can't think of a situation where i'd sling my fully working rifle and use my pistol, unless it was frawling into a tunnel or something, then holster my pistol and use the rifle again, then sling my rifle and draw my pistol again. Basically, what i'm saying is that IDPA and the tactical rifle matches that some people around here put on and certain 3-gun matches aren't as "goofy" as some other forms of competition.


Larry: which stages are you referring to?

Correia
June 17, 2003, 11:28 AM
Andy,

FBI walk. You would never fire into a huge crowd of innocents with multiple badguys in real life.

The one with all of the 200 yard targets, hit the target, bang the gong, hit the target. That was just a drill. As was the skirmish line walk.

Now those were very fun stages. They were challenging and they were a good test of skills. Good practice/training and fun stages are not mutually exclusive.

Steve Smith
June 17, 2003, 11:49 AM
You guys should have a stage where you run AWAY from the targets with your pistol over your shoulder pointing toward the targets. You fire as you run away and scream like a little girl. Any hits on the targets and you win.

You could call it the Steve Smith stage.

TrapperReady
June 17, 2003, 12:36 PM
Steve - That's a good one. I'm sure there are many others that could be more "real-life".

Perhaps a convenience-store stage, where you play Apu. You have to empty your pistol at two targets (one at contact distance, the other 5 feet away) as you dive to the floor behind the counter. You get extra points (from company management) if you don't hit the cash register or the Slushie machine.

Andrew Wyatt
June 17, 2003, 01:29 PM
FBI walk. You would never fire into a huge crowd of innocents with multiple badguys in real life.

Well, I would If it were necessary to save my life.


The one with all of the 200 yard targets, hit the target, bang the gong, hit the target. That was just a drill. As was the skirmish line walk.


drills that reenforce skills you need to save your life aren't untactical. you'll notice that the RO's make everyone seek cover, and generally behave in a way that won't get them killed on the street.

I hate matches where 1. the ro's don't say "take cover!" or "woa, you've overshot the shoot area!" and instead just give penalties without saying anything. 2. matches where the stage design is counter to my training.


Hell, i'd even shoot IPSC if i could find a club that had decent stage design.

OF
June 17, 2003, 01:54 PM
Matt said:If they would use the sports as a training aid (to learn how to shoot, move, shoot on the move, and handle stress) and then apply whatever tactics they are important for their real life situation, they will do exceedingly well when the SHTF.I think this is a major point. Drawing your gun from concealment is a toolbox skill. Reloading your gun is a toolbox skill. Shooting weak hand around a barricade is a toolbox skill. These skills are universally adaptable and can be plugged into any situation as needed. Add the ability to think fast and problem solve under stress and you have the start of a good tactical foundation.

- Gabe

PS: My wife is going to buy me your 4 DVD set for our wedding anniversary, Matt. :) Some guys want ties...

Jeeper
June 17, 2003, 04:34 PM
Gabe

You will love the videos. They are really well done. #4 has a bunch of cool shootin on it also.

faustulus
June 17, 2003, 06:02 PM
I don't really care if the stage design reflects real life or an alien attack. Just give me some cardboard and pump up the rounds. I play to have fun. I work to get better at handling my gun and hitting what I aim at, but I don't get too caught up in the 'tacticalness' of the whole affair. I let the tacticibillies (no offense skunk) worry about how it would work 'in real life.'

OF
June 17, 2003, 09:12 PM
You will love the videos.I'm way psyched. I've only just started practical shooting in the last couple months and I feel like a crack addict looking for his next fix.

If I don't get to a match soon I'm going to start knocking over liquor stores and selling the gold out of my teeth.

- Gabe

mattburkett.com
June 18, 2003, 12:18 AM
"You could call it the Steve Smith stage."
Okay, that one almost had me puking! hehehehe

BTW I think tacticibillies is way to much of a long word for the description of such characters. Maybe we should have a new name game thread.
Personal favorites include:
tactibillies
TMF's = tactical moth(umm well you can figure the rest out.)
TMB's = tactical master bate(umm you get to figure this one out too!)

Then of course my all time favorite:
Wannabes - which can be seen running in droves at gunshows! Fascinating viewing!
But THEN we have the acryonym GSG equalling Gun Show Geek.

Gabe, we have a fix ready for ya!! :)


Okay, back to the thread. Shooting is shooting. The more you do the better you can be if you approach it right. Keep an open mind and analyze everything. Keep whats useful for you and discard what isn't. If your not open to new information you have stopped learning and most likely you suck. :scrutiny: hehehe sorry for that one!

BTW if anyone here ever has any shooting issues they want to chat about, give me a call sometime. 480-949-1553

Take care,

jptsr1
June 18, 2003, 01:17 AM
"You guys should have a stage where you run AWAY from the targets with your pistol over your shoulder pointing toward the targets. You fire as you run away and scream like a little girl. Any hits on the targets and you win.

You could call it the Steve Smith stage."
_____________________________________________

Now that’s funny!! A stage named after me wouldn’t even include any shots being fired. You would just cower behind a simulated bed with a shotgun and a pistol pointed toward a door while your wife hid behind you dialing 911 on a fake phone. Anyway, the IDPA ‘03 Commonwealth Cups are this weekend here in Charlottesville, so I guess I’ll finally be able to see the game for myself and be able to make my own decision on how to play.

J.

mattburkett.com
June 18, 2003, 10:50 AM
"I guess I’ll finally be able to see the game for myself and be able to make my own decision on how to play."

;) Thats the way it is supposed to be. Good luck and I hope you enjoy yourself!

Glamdring
July 4, 2003, 03:46 AM
What is the shortest range you shoot targets at in IDPA?

Owen
July 4, 2003, 09:42 AM
Glamdring...contact

Sunray
July 6, 2003, 12:32 AM
jptsr1, it's not even close to an accusation. It's a perfectly good and reasonable question. Shooting is fun. Shooting any of the shooting games is fun. Go have fun and don't worry about whether or not your kit is good enough. It's what you have. Go play with your high priced, big, kid, toy and enjoy doing so.
And Steve Smith is the name of the Canadian guy who is Red Green.

If you enjoyed reading about "Isn’t that cheating?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!