500gr 45-70 loads


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Northwest Cajun
January 6, 2003, 10:37 PM
Hi Guys,
I just picked up a bunch of 500gr hard cast bullets for my 45-70. The powders I have on hand are Reloader #7 and Varget. I'd like to push them 1300-1500 fps out of my guide gun. Do any of you have a starting point? I cant find any data online.

Thanks
Cajun

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Bruce H
January 7, 2003, 07:22 AM
Speer 13 shows a cowboy action 500 grain load for Varget.

41gr.----1337 start load.
45gr.----1446 max load.

Also shows a Rx7 load

28gr.-----1169 start load.
32gr.-----1259 max load.

These are for a Trapdoor rifle.

Northwest Cajun
January 7, 2003, 01:22 PM
Bruce,
THANKS
What does it say for 300 gr HP's with the same powders?

Is there different data for warmer loads that are faster than cowboy action but slower than Ruger #1/ bolt action loads?

With the two powders I have on hand,I think with the 500 gr bullet all you need to do is seat the base of the bullet on the powder. I'm not adventerous enough to mess around with compressed loads.

Cajun

Paul "Fitz" Jones
January 16, 2003, 01:27 PM
I recently sold my last California Saeco 344 grain bullet mold and I had a series of bullet weights made up to 400 grains maximum because I disagreed with the 500 grain "Sore Shoulder Syndrome" and traditional "500 grain Recoil Flinch" inherent from the invention of the 45-70-500 to shoot buffalo and Indians.

I have had a trapdoor Springfield and 1895 Marlins and have always mentioned to prospective 45/70 bullet mold customers that my Hornaday 3rd edition states that a 350 grain bullet will take any North American Animal including moose and bear with up to 53 grains of IMR 3031. My hundreds of customers agreed that my recommended target load of 48 grains was the most accurate and they won in target competition with it. Now the main purpose of a bullet and load is accuracy for target competition and to bring some supper home so I feel there is no need for the physical punishment of the beginning and still currently sold 500 grain "Macho" bullet molds.

Gewehr98
January 17, 2003, 07:54 PM
If somebody wants to shoot a 500gr .45/70 load, why not let them?

Haven't gone over 450gr myself, in my Ruger #1S. But I won't deny a person the right to try something heavier. I run 405's, usually. ;)

Northwest Cajun
January 17, 2003, 11:07 PM
Paul,
As a matter of fact I just wanted to see how they shot.
Here is what I found out; With the bullet setting on the powder( not compressed) I got just under 1600fps with RE#7 and just over 1300 fps with a slightly compressed load of Varget.
Both loads were not that bad to shoot over the chrono or off hand, in fact , I've pushed 405's @ 2000fps that kicks LOTS MORE! :what:
I feel that the leading of the barrel is more of a hassle if I push them that fast. I'll stick to jacketed thank you.
I got about 60 rounds left of the 500 grain bullets. I'll be more than happy to make a deal with somebody.

Let me know

Cajun

Gewehr98
January 19, 2003, 12:15 AM
If not for my Ruger #1, for a friend with a Sharps Creedmoor. Are they leading the barrel that badly?

Bruce H
January 19, 2003, 03:32 AM
I'm currently loading 330gr. hollow point, 475gr. postel gas check, and 535 postel. Also play with 405 cast and jacketed. Rx7. IMR3031, IMR4895, Acurate 2015BR, and Acurate XMP5744. All shoot well but some are dirtier than others if this bothers. I don't try to drive them at warp speeds. In a 45/70 there will be very little difference between getting there now verses right now.:D I shoot them out of a Pedersoli Sharps replica, a NEF, and a BFR. Much fun.

Northwest Cajun
January 19, 2003, 02:41 PM
Since I have only shot lead bullets once in my guide gun, I can tell you it does take longer to get clean than with jacketed. I'm not sure "how Bad" it was just more than jacketed.
I'll stick to my plated 350 and my Rem 300HP's and 405's

Cajun

grijim
January 25, 2003, 03:17 PM
SIR:
iI have been shooting the 1895 for 20 yrs. with 405 gr. flat nose ammo.The reason for that is because the 500 gr.which I believe still comes only in rnd. nose exept for the 552gr. cast bullet form Lyman.
Yhe speed of that one with a gas check is maxed at 1215F.P.S.

My point also being that years ago again a wise old reloader told me the reason you use only flat nose in a magazine of a leaver is becausethe heavy recoil can set off a round in the magazine with a rnd. nose load.

Grijim

DELUX6969
October 9, 2005, 05:05 PM
I use IMR4198 in my NEF. For Hornady 300 grn. JHP, I hook up with 52 grns. of IMR 4198 & for my Lyman 535 grn.- .459 diam. lead bullets, I use 32 grn. of IMR4198. I have an extremly low powder residuale left in the barrel. Both are very fun to shoot. My son took his first deer last year with the 300 grn. last year at fourteen years old. I guess the thump from the big bore is a sickness he inherited from me, he loves it too..............

Warning-- These loads may not be right for your type of gun but work great in mine.

stoky
October 10, 2005, 09:21 AM
I've been shooting a heavy target model Pedersoli Sharps in a "Rifles of the West" match. The rules limit us to cast bullets. I'm not winning, but this is what I think I have learned.
This rifle likes 500gr. bullets better than 405gr. bullets. I'm told that this is because of the unusually fast twist of this barrel for this cartridge.
I'm getting better groups and much less leading from .458" bullets than .459" bullets.
I've tried 2400 with a 28ga shotgun wad, Varget, and I have recently worked up a load of 34gr. of IMR4198 with a 500gr. .458" bullet, which gives a muzzle velocity of just under 1500fps. This rifle is so big and heavy that the recoil is not too bad and the groups have several rounds in a big ragged hole at 200yds when I do my part..
I hope to win this some day, but I've noticed that most of the folks that are winning have switched to .38-55s.

DELUX6969
October 10, 2005, 11:55 AM
I don't do the match's. I strictly hunt but love to reload and hit the range to find the most dependable and accurate loads for my rifles. I just got my barrel back from the gunsmith last week. I had the 45-70 ported with his High-Effeincy Porting. While he had the barrel, he suprised me by doing a Micro Lap & Polish Bore Treatment. I had it ported to try and get better control of my groups. Now that he did this plus the Micro Lap & Polish, I have started reloading a new batch today of the 300 JHP & 535 Lead with the IMR4198. I am starting the 300 JHP @ 50 grns. & the 535 leads @ 30grns. Because there will be a lot less friction in the bore, I thought I'd back off and start working my way up to a good spot. I may find I get better results from lowering my loads to somewere less than the 50 & 30 starting point because the changes made to the barrel. Don't know yet, but I will have "HAPPY THUMPING" going on this week.

Heck, I hope I have not messed up the best and funnist rifle I've have ever owned by working it's barrel( I own 22LR's,204 Ruger,223's,30-06, 280 Rem., & shotguns).

tc300mag1
October 10, 2005, 12:14 PM
i tell ya them 500 Grainers are Thumpers ill ry to dig up my load data on them later havent loaded them in a few years

mohican
October 27, 2005, 03:32 PM
SIR:
iI have been shooting the 1895 for 20 yrs. with 405 gr. flat nose ammo.The reason for that is because the 500 gr.which I believe still comes only in rnd. nose exept for the 552gr. cast bullet form Lyman.
Yhe speed of that one with a gas check is maxed at 1215F.P.S.

My point also being that years ago again a wise old reloader told me the reason you use only flat nose in a magazine of a leaver is becausethe heavy recoil can set off a round in the magazine with a rnd. nose load.

Grijim

Spitzers (pointed) bullets are not supposed to be safe in a tubular magazine , but the majority of jackets bullets factory loaded for tubular magazines are round nose, or round /flat. I've never experienced a round nose bullet setting off another round in a tubular magazine due to recoil.

IMO, flat points make better hunting loads than round nose bullets because they tend to "punch" or cut a larger hole than a round nose does, even without expanding. This is similar to a full wadcutter leaving a cleaner, full diameter hole in a paper target than a round nose does. Also, when you talk about 45-70 bullets, shotgun slugs, and the like, they often have as large holes in game as 30 cal bullet do if they expand.

DELUX6969
November 12, 2005, 11:57 AM
WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The results from having my 45-70 Custom Ported & the Bore Micro Lap Treatment by my gunsmith: Don Lewis (918-366-2945) Indian Territory Arms Production, Email: itapcustomguns@peoplepc.com ..... out of Bixby, Oklahoma.

Before taking the NEF 45-70 barrel to him, the best loads I worked up over a 4 1/2 year span (from 535grn lead's & down & other jacketed bullets) were using 300grn JHP with 53grns IMR4198 with the best avgs 3 shot group @ 100yds was 1 1/4".

Now my 3 shot avg is a consistent 1/2" group from center of bullet hole to center of bullet hole @ 100yrds, my best so far is 3/8ths" from center to center..........To be noted that I used only sandbags and no mechanical gun vise etc.... The loads that did the best were 300grn JHP Hornady with
50grns of IMR4198..Cronographed @ 2184 fps avg..MY DISCLAIMER-My loads are considered "HOT", these loads I have done, I did myself and work for my gun--BUT MAY NOT BE SAFE IN YOURS----Always use cation in working up loads, start low and inspect and note every little change in each case each and every time you fire a shot.

DELUX6969
November 12, 2005, 12:11 PM
Results from the gun range

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The results from having my 45-70 Custom Ported & the Bore Micro Lap Treatment by my gunsmith: Don Lewis (918-366-2945) Indian Territory Arms Production, Email: itapcustomguns@peoplepc.com ..... out of Bixby, Oklahoma.

Before taking the NEF 45-70 barrel to him, the best loads I worked up over a 4 1/2 year span (from 535grn lead's & down & other jacketed bullets) were using 300grn JHP with 53grns IMR4198 with the best avgs 3 shot group @ 100yds was 1 1/4".

Now my 3 shot avg is a consistent 1/2" group from center of bullet hole to center of bullet hole @ 100yrds, my best so far is 3/8ths" from center to center..........To be noted that I used only sandbags and no mechanical gun vise etc.... The loads that did the best were 300grn JHP Hornady with
50grns of IMR4198....MY DISCLAIMER-My loads are considered "HOT", these loads I have done, I did myself and work for my gun--BUT MAY NOT BE SAFE IN YOURS----Always use cation in working up loads, start low and inspect and note every little change in each case each and every time you fire a shot.

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