That damnfool Colorado SB-34


PDA






230RN
May 3, 2007, 11:27 PM
The time is just right to send Colorado Governor Bill Ritter a request to veto SB 34.

Among other things, SB 34 would not allow reciprocity for permits obtained by non-residents of other states.

Example of one thing that can happen: You live in Louisiana, but have a Florida non-resident. Your Louisiana license expires, so you're carrying concealed on your Florida ticket. You decide to visit Colorado.

Nope. Your Florida non-resident will no longer cut it here in Colorado.

One of the problems is that Coloradans do not realize that this law may well affect them in the future, if other states start pulling their reciprocity with Colorado.

But most importantly, if Ritter signs this Bill in Colorado, other states may take it as a go-ahead signal to pass the same kind of law... perhaps in your state, too!

Please go to this thread to look over the situation:

http://www.packing.org/community/general/thread/?thread=22993

Let's sandbag him on this one,ladies and gentlemen!

(And please don't spell it "governer." It's "governor" with an "o". I make that mistake all the time.)

---------------
GOVERNOR RITTER CONTACT POINTS:

E-mail: Governor.ritter@state.co.us He wants a Colorado address to write back to. Two options: tell him you are out of state but that the law will affect you anyhow, or write a hard-copy letter. Or fax or call him.

Mail
Bill Ritter, Governor
136 State Capitol
Denver, CO 80203-1792

Phone
(303) 866-2471

Fax
(303) 866-2003

===============

My fax to Ritter... expand on it, get creative:

FAX NUMBER (303) 866-2003

Dear Governor Ritter,

I urge you to veto Senate Bill 34. I do not think it is in the best interests of the people of Colorado.

In addtion, a limitation on the permitted concealed carry of weapons by out-of-state residents, however legally obtained, is nothing but thinly disguised attack on the legitimate and legal firearms rights of people throughout the United States.

If you view the analogy with Driver's Licenses as analogous to this bill, I think you will agree that it probably violates the full faith and credit clause of the US Constitution.

I would also like you to re-examine this legislation in the light of some of the latest federal Court Decisions, as well as the US Attorney General's opinion that bearing arms is an individual right.

I think that the pendulum is swinging toward a recognition of the ordinary citizens' right to self defense, and I think your signature on this bill would run counter to this "sea change" in the peoples' views on this matter.

Thank you,

T.A.T
POB 1234567
Denver CO
80200

If you enjoyed reading about "That damnfool Colorado SB-34" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
Jimmie
May 4, 2007, 01:20 AM
The OP was pretty much right. If you have a non-resident CHL from anywhere (i.e. you live in Illinios but have a Florida non-resident CHL), you will not be able to carry in Colorado. You will have to prove your residency by having a picture ID from that state WITH an address in that state on said ID.

This is not about moving there and getting a CO license. It's about visitors using their non-resident license. The only people allowed to carry in CO would be those that reside in the state wherein their CHL was issued.

http://www.leg.state.co.us/CLICS/CLICS2007A/csl.nsf/fsbillcont3/2FF2281D159DF18087257251007C51CE?Open&file=034_enr.pdf

Personally I have a resident license from a state with Colorado reciprocity, so it wouldn't affect me. But if I move somewhere that will not give me a CHL, I will get a Florida non-resident so that I can still at least carry in some places. I'd be SOL in Colorado.

18-12-213. Reciprocity. (1) A permit to carry a concealed handgun or a concealed weapon that is issued by a state that recognizes the validity of permits issued pursuant to this part 2 shall be valid in this state in all respects as a permit issued pursuant to this part 2 IF THE PERMIT IS ISSUED TO A PERSON WHO IS:

(b) (I) A RESIDENT OF THE STATE THAT ISSUED THE PERMIT, AS DEMONSTRATED BY THE ADDRESS STATED ON A VALID PICTURE IDENTIFICATION THAT IS ISSUED BY THE STATE THAT ISSUED THE PERMIT AND IS CARRIED BY THE PERMIT HOLDER...

(2) FOR PURPOSES OF THIS SECTION, A "VALID PICTURE IDENTIFICATION" MEANS A DRIVER'S LICENSE OR A STATE IDENTIFICATION ISSUED IN LIEU OF A DRIVER'S LICENSE.

230RN
May 4, 2007, 01:49 AM
Jimmie:

This is not about moving there and getting a CO license. It's about visitors using their non-resident license. The only people allowed to carry in CO would be those that reside in the state wherein their CHL was issued.

Thank you, Jimmy. Once more, the people of Colorado should be very concerned even though it sounds fairly benign and doesn't affect them.

But it does, for the reasons noted in the OP:

One of the problems is that Coloradans do not realize that this law may well affect them in the future, if other states start pulling their reciprocity with Colorado.

But most importantly, if Ritter signs this Bill in Colorado, other states may take it as a go-ahead signal to pass the same kind of law... perhaps in your state, too!

As another personal concern which might be more general, I was toying with the idea of getting a Utah non-resident license just in case I lost my wallet or something.

Or, perhaps I forget to renew my Colorado one. (I note there's an expiration reminder system for just this on PDO.) Or, even more likely, I apply for renewal but the process is delayed to beyond the expiration date.

In any of those cases, I (or maybe even you) would be out of luck if this bill passes.

So, see Coloradans? This bill can affect you. It's not just about nonresidents!

That's why you should care about it.

They're trying to slip this through on the theory that Coloradans would not care about not recognizing non-resident out-of-state licenses.

But you should.

jlbraun
May 4, 2007, 02:12 AM
I have heard that the reason for this asinine law was a guy tried to get a Colorado permit, got denied for a paperwork error, then went and got either a FL or UT permit (story varies), and sends a photocopy to the CO sherriff's dept. that denied him with a letter along the "neener-neener, you stupid jerks!"

xpun8
May 4, 2007, 02:30 AM
correct me if I'm wrong then...
I have a WA and non-res FL CPL, while visiting I was legally carrying. CO doesn't have reciprocity with WA, however they do with FL. Supposing the governor doesn't veto...I'd be breaking the law?

That blows as nearly all my family lives there now.

jlbraun
May 4, 2007, 02:34 AM
@xpun

No, you'd be fine carrying with those licenses if you were just visiting. If you were a legal resident of CO and didn't have a CO permit, then you'd have a problem.

CO's permit is the most expensive in the nation - I think they just want more people paying the $150... :mad:

wdlsguy
May 4, 2007, 03:53 PM
I have a WA and non-res FL CPL, while visiting I was legally carrying. CO doesn't have reciprocity with WA
Correct.

however they do with FL.
Correct.

Supposing the governor doesn't veto...I'd be breaking the law?
Correct. Colorado has reciprocity with Florida, but if SB 34 becomes law, only Florida residents will be able to carry in Colorado on a Florida license.

Justin
May 4, 2007, 03:59 PM
Moving to the activism forum.

We need to make our voice heard on this.

mountainclmbr
May 6, 2007, 08:54 PM
Who voted for these anti-freedom clowns?

Geister
May 6, 2007, 09:45 PM
Someone on this board said recently that there is a such thing as a Florida part-time driver's license. I wonder if someone has a driver's license from X state and a part-time Florida driver's license, I wonder if he would still be able to carry a non-resident Florida permit in Colorado.

joe4702
May 6, 2007, 09:59 PM
Probably all the dolts who moved from CA -> CO to escape the anti-freedom clown politicans they elected here.

Jimmie
May 6, 2007, 11:20 PM
No, you'd be fine carrying with those licenses if you were just visiting. If you were a legal resident of CO and didn't have a CO permit, then you'd have a problem.
Incorrect. This IS about having a non-resident license.

xpun8, read the text for yourself... There is no mention of being a Colorado resident - this is about visitors. Of course Colorado residents that had been using a Florida non-resident license will also get schwacked and will have to have and exclusively use a Colorado-issued CHL.

18-12-213. Reciprocity. (1) A permit to carry a concealed handgun or a concealed weapon that is issued by a state that recognizes the validity of permits issued pursuant to this part 2 shall be valid in this state in all respects as a permit issued pursuant to this part 2 IF THE PERMIT IS ISSUED TO A PERSON WHO IS:

(b) (I) A RESIDENT OF THE STATE THAT ISSUED THE PERMIT, AS DEMONSTRATED BY THE ADDRESS STATED ON A VALID PICTURE IDENTIFICATION THAT IS ISSUED BY THE STATE THAT ISSUED THE PERMIT AND IS CARRIED BY THE PERMIT HOLDER...

(2) FOR PURPOSES OF THIS SECTION, A "VALID PICTURE IDENTIFICATION" MEANS A DRIVER'S LICENSE OR A STATE IDENTIFICATION ISSUED IN LIEU OF A DRIVER'S LICENSE.

If you're not a resident of the state that issued the CHL, no carrying in CO. Florida and Utah non-resident licenses will NO LONGER BE VALID.

The bill summary says this:

Clarifies that a person cannot use a permit to carry a concealed handgun that is issued by another state if the person does not reside in the issuing state.

Jimmie
May 6, 2007, 11:22 PM
Someone on this board said recently that there is a such thing as a Florida part-time driver's license. I wonder if someone has a driver's license from X state and a part-time Florida driver's license, I wonder if he would still be able to carry a non-resident Florida permit in Colorado.
Only if you have a Florida address on said driver's license.

WeedWhacker
May 7, 2007, 04:03 AM
Damn. I take it by the map on handgunlaw.us that this POS bill was signed into law?

If so, I'm very likely going to cancel a vacation there, seeing as they apparently don't care about my right to provide for my own well-being in their uppity state...

glockman19
May 7, 2007, 01:35 PM
As of May 7, 2007 Gov. Ritter HAS NOT signed into law SB-34

If you have not already contacted his office plesase do...and be extremely polite. We may have a chance to see this one slip through the cracks.

xpun8
May 7, 2007, 04:07 PM
But FL issues non-resident, CO does not. If you are from a state that does not have reciprocity with CO you can not carry, period.

Justin
May 7, 2007, 04:39 PM
THIS IS NOT THE PLACE TO DEBATE WHETHER THIS IS A GOOD LAW, WHETHER OR NOT YOU LIKE COLORADO, OR WHETHER THIS IS WORTH BOTHERING WITH.

IF YOU WANT TO DO THAT, GO TO LEGAL & POLITICAL. THIS FORUM EXISTS AS A VENUE FOR THOSE WHO WISH TO ACTUALLY TAKE ACTION RATHER THAN JUST COMPLAINING ABOUT THINGS ON THE INTERNET.

IF YOUR POST IS NOT RELATED TO PROTESTING THIS LEGISLATION, DON'T POST HERE!

Get this: the activism forum is shockingly enough, a place to organize and encourage ACTIVISM. I should not need to point this out.

WeedWhacker
May 7, 2007, 04:45 PM
Another FAXed letter:

Governor Ritter,

I am writing to ask you not to sign Senate Bill 34, as the bill will deny many visitors to Colorado the ability to take responsible steps for their own safety and well-being, as well as the same for their families.

While it is true that I am not a resident of Colorado, I do often travel into and through your beautiful state. As I am a trained, practiced, non-resident concealed firearms permit holder from a neighboring state, I am currently able to provide for the safety of myself as well as my family and other fellow travelers without fear of running afoul of the law. SB-34 would change that with the stroke of a pen and force a very unpleasant choice upon myself and those other Colorado visitors like me.

Once again, I implore you to let SB-34 die so that peaceable folk such as myself and others like me can feel welcome and safe in the great state of Colorado.

XXXXX
Las Vegas, Nevada

tanksoldier
May 7, 2007, 05:35 PM
My email to Gov Ritter:

Governor,

I'm writing to urge you to veto SB-34.

There is no reason not to accept a Concealed Weapon License from another state, where the the license holder is a resident of the issuing state or not.

Everyone goes through the same background checks, resident and non-resident alike.

The Constitution requires interstate recognition of such things as driver's licenses, marriage licenses and divorce decrees. As far as I know Colorado does not have a statute limiting who may be issued a driver's license in another state... or decreeing that such a license will not be recognized by Colorado if it does not meet Colorado's standards for issuance. I suspect that such a decree would be slapped down as unconstitutional. Why then do so for concealed weapon permits?

It seems clear that the historical American self-reliance is reasserting itself, both for traditional and practical reasons. You have an executive protection detail, but the rest of us cannot carry law enforcement officers around in our pockets. Why make it any more difficult than it already is for law-abiding citizens to defend themselves?

Sincerely,

name removed
location removed, CO

tanksoldier

xpun8
May 7, 2007, 05:47 PM
Email sent urging veto of SB34

WeedWhacker
May 7, 2007, 07:29 PM
I'm sure FAXes, even from free services, are more weighty than email. Here are a few such services:

http://www.link4pc.com/metrofax/
https://www.efax.com/en/efax/twa/signupFree?rqcp=2
http://faxzero.com/
http://www.tpc.int/no-coverage.html

wdlsguy
May 11, 2007, 04:25 PM
SB-34 went to Governor Ritter for his signature on 5/8. It's time to light up the governor's phone line!

http://www.colorado.gov/governor/contact.html

bb21
May 11, 2007, 04:58 PM
I just got done writing Gov. Ritter, this is not my first letter to our politicians concerning SB 34. I did make the point that the bill essentially throws out the concept of reciprocity for many or most CCW holders. I for one live in CO. and have a Utah Permit which without help will only be good outside of my home state. Please everyone write a quick email.
Thanks!

yhtomit
May 11, 2007, 05:48 PM
Yes, paper (even faxed) is better, but I'm late getting out the door as it is, so this is what I sent by email:

Governor Ritter:

I'm not a Colorado resident, but I have happily visited Colorado many times for the excellent skiiing, and to visit friends. I've also frequently driven through the state by choice when traveling cross country, because it's so scenic.

I ask you to consider the effect of SB-34 on people like me; currently, visitors to Colorado with out-of-state concealed weapons carry permits (including people who live in Pennsylvania, as I currently do, with Florida concealed carry permits) are permitted by Colorado law to carry concealed. Since my Pennsylvania concealed permit is not reciprocally recognized by Colorado, I would be disappointed by a decision to sign this bill, because it would make Colorado less attractive to me as a traveler.

As I'm sure you know, concealed carry holders are one of the most law-abiding demographic groups you could imagine -- we have all passed background checks of various kinds, and typically train more often than do most police officers. Concealed-carry permit holders tend to be intelligent, cautious, worldly people -- the kind you want visiting your state. It makes sense for states to recognize each other's permits reciprocally, as long as each state is satisfied that the other has done a reasonable job of ensuring that permits are issued to responsible citizens. If a Florda resident's permit is recognized in Colorado, doesn't it make sense to take advantage of the same state's standards when it issues a permit to the resident of another state? Precisely such cross-state recognition is perhaps the most common reason that widely-recognized state permits are sought by those who live elsewhere.

Thank you for your time in reading this; please leave this bill unsigned.

Respectfully,

[my name]
Philadelphia, PA

aaron77
May 15, 2007, 10:18 AM
Does anyone have an update re: this legislation? :confused:

Jimmie
May 15, 2007, 10:23 AM
Summarized History for Bill Number SB07-034
(The date the bill passed to the committee of the whole reflects the date the bill passed out of committee.)

01/10/2007 Introduced In Senate - Assigned to Judiciary
01/29/2007 Senate Committee on Judiciary Pass Amended to Senate Committee of the Whole
02/16/2007 Senate Second Reading Laid Over to 02/20/2007
02/20/2007 Senate Second Reading Special Order - Passed with Amendments
02/21/2007 Senate Third Reading Laid Over Daily
02/22/2007 Senate Third Reading Laid Over Daily
02/23/2007 Introduced In House - Assigned to Judiciary
02/23/2007 Senate Third Reading Passed
03/20/2007 House Committee on Judiciary Pass Unamended to House Committee of the Whole
03/23/2007 House Second Reading Laid Over
03/26/2007 House Second Reading Special Order - Passed
03/27/2007 House Third Reading Laid Over
03/28/2007 House Third Reading Passed
05/08/2007 Signed by the President of the Senate
05/08/2007 Signed by the Speaker of the House
05/08/2007 Sent to the Governor

This information is prepared as an informational service only and should not be relied upon as an official record of action taken by the Colorado General Assembly.

Taurus 617 CCW
May 15, 2007, 10:38 AM
I already sent him an email. I will be bringing a copy of this thread to school where the rest of the gunsmithing students can take a look at it.

wdlsguy
May 15, 2007, 12:54 PM
Gov. Ritter signed 26 bills into law on the 14th. SB-34 wasn't one of them. Keep those calls, emails, faxes and letters coming!

aaron77
May 17, 2007, 11:23 PM
Preliminary report by local news states that Ritter signed this bill.....ggrrrrrrrrr

aaron77
May 17, 2007, 11:28 PM
It's official....(from Channel 9 website)


Ritter signs concealed weapons law
posted by: Jeffrey Wolf , Web Producer

created: 5/17/2007 7:23:02 PM

DENVER (AP) - Gov. Bill Ritter signed 16 bills on Thursday, including one barring Colorado residents from obtaining concealed weapons permits from other states.

Out-of-state visitors will be allowed to use permits issued by their home states, and not a third state, under the law (Senate Bill 34).

House Majority Leader Alice Madden (D-Boulder) said she sponsored the bill because she was concerned people denied permits in Colorado could get them elsewhere.

Dudley Brown, spokesman for Rocky Mountain Gun Owners, said the bill could prevent some people who travel from defending themselves and their families when they are in Colorado.

Colorado permit holders must apply in person and undergo a background check. The permit costs $152.50 and lasts for five years.

Other new laws include one that will streamline procedures for notifying owners of mineral interests about planned surface development and will regulate negotiations of surface use agreements. Another requires treatment for firefighters with cancers that could be related to their jobs.

Ritter still has about 200 bills to sign before a June 4 deadline


(Copyright 2007. The Associated Press. All rights reserved.)

gyp_c2
May 19, 2007, 10:00 AM
...and the one maintaining CCW permit holders on the criminal database...according to RMGO website...
http://www.rmgo.org/alerts/2007-billwatch.shtml

...databases...fah...http://emoticons4u.com/smoking/rauch06.gif

Geister
May 19, 2007, 05:24 PM
House Majority Leader Alice Madden (D-Boulder) said she sponsored the bill because she was concerned people denied permits in Colorado could get them elsewhere.

Oh, and there's a huge problem with Utah and Florida permit holders? Is there some sort of bloodbath going on that I don't know about?

Oh well, I'd rather visit Arizona, Utah, and Wyoming than Colorado.

langenc
May 19, 2007, 07:34 PM
Denver and some of those areas are highly anti.

glockman19
May 19, 2007, 08:38 PM
Needless to say I'm disappointed in teh bill and it's signing. Loks like my FL & UT licenses will no longer be honored. Sad because I'm a California Resident an It's neraly impossible to get a CCW in Los Angelse, Therefore NO ability to carry in CO.

Hopefully someone will have the sense to allow a Colorado non-resident license without having to come to the state.

That would solve alot of problems for people liek me who live in NO ISSUE areas.

If you enjoyed reading about "That damnfool Colorado SB-34" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!