Stance: What do you use, what do you think is better?


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natedog
January 7, 2003, 10:30 PM
What stance do you think is better? Why? What do you use? I used to like icoseles. But when I was at the range the other day, shooting a rented Glock 17, I was shooting craptastically. Then a range master came up and introduced me to the wonderful world of weaver. My groups immediatly shrank.

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10-Ring
January 8, 2003, 12:30 AM
I like a good 2 handed icosoles(sp?) stance. I get more consistent results.

Logistar
January 8, 2003, 12:36 AM
I have just switched from the Isoceles to the Weaver but haven't shot enough to be sure.

I am positive that my accuracy is roughly the same using either. The reason I switched is to try and increase my speed on my second shot. It APPEARS that the Weaver will help control muzzle flip a bit better than the Isoceles.

As I understand it, I should be "pushing down on the gun with my strong hand and pushing up on it with my weak hand" as I shoot. :confused:

Logistar

Longbow
January 8, 2003, 01:31 AM
I find the Isoceles to be more stable, especially in rapid fire. The arms being slightly bent acts like a shock absorber. The shock is evenly/better dispersed IMHO.

WhoKnowsWho
January 8, 2003, 01:43 AM
I always read of how Isoceles is more natural but whenever I go to the range and point quickly, I default to Weaver, so that's what I usually use. I have been trying to use Iso more often, when I notice.

sm
January 8, 2003, 01:53 AM
Weaver

tbeb
January 8, 2003, 03:33 AM
I use the isoceles because I am right handed, left eye dominant, and shoot with one eye closed.

New_comer
January 8, 2003, 04:46 AM
I thought I was using a modified weaver, but it turned out as "Stressfire Isoceles" developed by Massad Ayoob.

http://www.midwesttraininggroup.com/images/Tips3/isosceles1.jpg

Check here: http://www.midwesttraininggroup.com/take_a_stand.htm

Hkmp5sd
January 8, 2003, 04:49 AM
Weaver because it's the one I shoot best with.

Kahr carrier
January 8, 2003, 07:12 AM
DITTO -WEAVER.:evil:

Captain Bligh
January 8, 2003, 07:48 AM
Weaver here. Weaver feel so natural to me while Isocoles feels forced and unnatural.

I can't really say I shoot better with one than the other though.

RJ

HeadCleaver
January 8, 2003, 11:20 AM
Weaver because it comes natural to me and its what I practice with.

Shawn Dodson
January 8, 2003, 11:48 AM
What's better depends on the situation, in my opinion.

I believe one should be proficient with Weaver, Mod Weaver, Isosceles, and one-handed (strong and weak) . This permits smooth transition from one to the other, depending on the situation.

Tamara
January 8, 2003, 12:14 PM
Okay, who voted for "Gangsta Grip"? :D

Soap
January 8, 2003, 12:17 PM
I can't shoot in an isoceles very well with a gun that is in a major caliber shooting full power loads. With a .22 its just fine, but with the 1911 my results are not as spectacular. Interestingly enough, I just read somewhere about this phenomenon. I think it was in a Cooper column but I'm not sure.

Chaz
January 8, 2003, 12:23 PM
Weaver for me, trained that way so it's automatic.

Although... Gangsta Grip sounds might comfy!

Mike Irwin
January 8, 2003, 12:37 PM
My toes...

s&w 24
January 8, 2003, 12:50 PM
I,m right handed and left eye dominant so I end up using the modified chapman stance, firearm in right hand supported by left
pistol SLIGHTLY tipped to the left maybe 5 degrees elbows slightly bent and feet shoulder width apart left foot forward half a step knees slightly bent.(confused or in a pretzel yet)

Will Fennell
January 8, 2003, 01:18 PM
Whatever stnce I can assume behind cover....

Chris Rhines
January 8, 2003, 01:27 PM
I use my own stance, and it works pretty well for me. This is the method I use(d) to develop it:

- Unload your gun and stash the ammo in your safety can. Make triple-sure that your gun is unloaded. Holster your gun the way you normally carry it.
- Put up a target some reasonable distance away.
- Face the target. Look at the spot you want to shoot.
- Close your eyes.
- Draw and try to index on the target. Keep your eyes closed until your gun is out and pointed.
- Open your eyes. Are the sights aligned? No? Shift your grip around until they are, then try again. Shift your feet around until the sights line up with the target.
- Keep practicing until you can draw with your eyes closed from any position, open your eyes, and see the sights aligned on your target.

It takes some practice (it took me about three months of dry-practice before I started to see results) but it will pay off.

Brian Enos discusses this in much more detail in Practical Shooting; Beyond Fundamentals. Take a look!

- Chris

Plan-B
January 8, 2003, 01:34 PM
I had no idea that each stance even had a name until after I had been shooting for a few months. I naturally used Weaver from day one because it was more comfortable to me. It's what I use 95% of the time now. When I shoot my Walther P22 though, I split 50/50 between Weaver and Gangsta. Believe it or not I can actually hit paper using Gangsta. :what:

4v50 Gary
January 8, 2003, 03:13 PM
Since I love revolver shooting, I prefer Isoceles. I don't think it's necessarily better than the Weaver though and both have their application & advantages.

triggertime
January 8, 2003, 03:51 PM
I shoot from a modern/dynamic isoceles stance with both thumbs high and pointing towards the target.

Why do I think its better? Because the Weaver stance is dated and requires an upright bladed posture that negatively effects your ability to shoot while moving laterally.

In addition to that, the Weaver stance falls apart under stress and is only marginally effective in affording you the ability to shoot 'major' handgun calibers fast and accurately.

Of course, YMMV. But hey, you asked. :neener:

sanchezero
January 8, 2003, 04:03 PM
Gangsta baby!!! Extreme Pimp Power!!!

:neener:

CTgunteacher
January 8, 2003, 06:12 PM
I recently converted to Modern Isosceles after shooting almost exclusively from Weaver since 1989. I find better recoil control with MI than with Weaver, when I use the techniques described in the Enos book and Plaxco's "Shooting From Within." Gun pops up, watch front sight lift, gun pops back down into same spot, fire again.

I actually find this faster and easier than fighting the recoil in Weaver, and I shoot a 1911-pattern .45. Controlling the gun in MI is more a function of the grip than the stance, so the body and foot positioning can be more relaxed. I see very few top-level competition shooters using Weaver anymore, even in the limited/stock divisions and IDPA, where compensated guns are disallowed.

I also note that former Weaver stalwart Gabe Suarez has changed over the years to what he calls a "fighting posture" that seems very loosely Weaver-based. He wrote a pretty good article about it in one of his newsletters a few months back.

All that said, I dispute the proposition that Weaver crumbles under stress. Graduates of Gunsite, Chuck Taylor, John Farnam, presumably Thunder Ranch, and others have shot very successfully from Weaver under defensive conditions. I do agree that Ayoob's severely stiff and rigid "Stressfire" Isosceles probably holds up better under stress when used by non-dedicated personnel, but I'm not sure we can make sweeping assumptions about stance based on the reactions of the ill-trained or non-practiced.

Logistar, the Weaver is an isometric stance that relies on forward-and-back muscular pressure to stabilize the pistol. However, if you use the stance correctly, you don't need to consciously push and pull. Just tuck your weak elbow as far under the gun as you can get it, so it points directly at the ground. This will automatically create the isometric tension that Weaver shooters use to control recoil. If your weak elbow sticks out like a chicken wing, you lose most of the benefits of the stance.

Mike

sonoranjack
January 8, 2003, 09:09 PM
Back in the 80s during armed security guard school I was taught to shoot a revolver w/ the icoseles stance, point aim. I modififed that to aim using the sights. I keeped that stance until about a 2 years ago. 1 day on the range 1 of the employees asked me if I was on the potty? He told me not to use the potty stance & showed my the weaver. Then I took the ranges intermedeate shooting course. The weaver stance was taught. The icosesles stance feels awkward & I shoot at the midsection. The weaver feels more natural & I hit COM.

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