Winchester Ranger 9mm 127 gr. +P+


PDA






Jaegermeister
January 7, 2003, 11:59 PM
If one can find and obtain the above-mentioned load, is this the current best of the 9mm crop? If so, please tell me of its record on the street.

I think this is the repackaged "Black Talon" of the 1990s that drew media scorn.

How does it compare to the Cor-Bon loads in 115 and 125? gr. and the 124 gr. Gold Dot +p?

I have a Ruger P-95, so hot loads are no problem.

Thanks

If you enjoyed reading about "Winchester Ranger 9mm 127 gr. +P+" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
Fed168
January 8, 2003, 12:11 AM
I don't know any data on its performance. I would suggest not making it a steady diet in your Ruger, or really any handgun. It's a good way to accelerate wear and tear, and I don't think you really gain anything.
I do have experience with 124 +P Gold Dots. I found them to be combat accurate and easy to control out of a BHP and a 92F.

PCRCCW
January 8, 2003, 09:28 AM
Currently, the +P+ Ranger is the hottie rnd on the 9mm bandwagon. Its faster than the Corbon 124 JHP and is
very hard to find...expensive when you do. It would be highly worth finding some to play with...accuracy check, chrono etc....
Hell if you find some....Let me know and Ill get some too.....

With no Chrono data...Ill tell you another smoker if you can find them.....Federal "tactical" 9mm.....124 JHP's. Its law enf. only ammo just like the Ranger and given its comparison to other +P/+P+ 124's...Id say its right up there with the Ranger........
Very very accurate with moderate recoil......ok. lots of recoil...:D
Shoot well

Sean Smith
January 8, 2003, 10:27 AM
If you shop around, you can sometimes get 50 round boxes of it for the same price (or even LESS) than normal self defense ammo. I think I paid $15/50 back when I had a 9mm. OTOH, some people try to rip you off because it is "magic" ammo or something.

I shot a box of it through a SIG P210 and a CZ-75B. The stuff was accurate, low flash and HOT. If you can find a good price on it, it is worth getting.

ojibweindian
January 8, 2003, 12:12 PM
The P95 was tested with over 20K rounds of +P ammo without any accelerated wear and tear. The only reason I wouldn't feed tons of Ranger +P+ through my P95 is the expense of the ammuntion.

9mmepiphany
January 8, 2003, 06:29 PM
i'm lucky enough to have this issued to me by my department...i'm shooting it through my sig 226 and hk p-7

i was surprised by how accurate it was, recoil wasn't any worst then +p loads and flash wasn't excessive. we're issuing the 2nd generation now so i would think there should be some 1st gen available on the secondary market.

bestseller92
December 24, 2009, 09:22 AM
Mas Ayoob recommends it as his favorite 9mm load. I need to get some myself, or some Federal 115 grain JHP +P+. I'm currently running standard velocity 115 grainers in my G26 and Ruger P95.

bestseller92
December 24, 2009, 09:52 AM
I just ordered two 50 round boxes of the Federal 9BPLE 115 grain +P+ JHP for $19.59/box from Cheaper than Dirt.

First good deal I've seen at CTD in ages.

bestseller92
December 24, 2009, 10:17 AM
Drat, after I ordered from CTD, I see an outfit named Streichers.com has it for $17/box.

Heck, maybe I could've kept shopping around and got it for free! :)

Steve C
December 24, 2009, 12:06 PM
There's no significant difference between any of the +P+ ammo in stopping power, all is top notch. There's not a huge difference between the +P loadings and the +P+.

Here are some of the MS data from handloads.com 9mm +P+ (http://handloads.com/misc/stoppingpower.asp?Caliber=17&Weight=All) and 9mm +P (http://handloads.com/misc/stoppingpower.asp?Caliber=16&Weight=All)

SharpsDressedMan
December 24, 2009, 01:12 PM
It is THE defense load for all my guns in 9mm.

45crittergitter
December 24, 2009, 02:20 PM
The Win 127 gr. RANGER T +P+ (RA9TA) has a Marshall/Sanow Steet Stopper actual one-shot-stop rating of 90%, if that's what you're asking. It's listed at 1240 fps and recommended highly by Ayoob and Ammolab. I've heard that it is the Talon bullet.

fastbolt
December 24, 2009, 02:52 PM
I first started using it in the late 90's. It had brass cases and the black lubalox coating on the bullets. It was packaged as the RA9SXTP. It was also possible to buy it packaged as a Q load (plain white box, with whatever minor spec variations might be requested).

Then we got it issued with nickeled cases and plain copper jacketed bullets as the RA9TA, but identified as T-series, back around '02.

I haven't picked up any of the latest version, although I've been using some of the other loads in the revised T-Series line in .40 S&W and .45 ACP.

I was able to buy it as LE at a cop shop for $12.95/50-ct box until they realized they hadn't raised the prices for a while, and then I had to pay $14.95/50-ct box for some.

I've always found it to be a very accurate load in my various 9mm guns.

FWIW, the latest state contract for ammunition in CA has the 124gr +P T-Series (RA9124TP) on the contract (and the RA40TL 180gr for .40 S&W). I'm guessing they're going to be producing a fair amount of it for any agencies in the state which want to order 9mm or .40 S&W ammunition off the state contract. It basically drops the delivered cost of the premium T-series ammunition close to that of some low-cost training ammunition ($95.30/case for the RA9124TP & $105.58/case for the RA40TL).

mljdeckard
December 24, 2009, 03:15 PM
I'm not a big fan of such tweaking. Particularly in my .45s, but it's the same sentiment in 9mm. I like to use them as they were designed. If I wanted THAT much more punch from a 9mm round......I would get a .357 SIG.

legion3
December 24, 2009, 04:23 PM
How cheap is the practice rounds of the 357sig?

Seems to me that hot 9mm +P+ for defense and nice cheap 9mm practice ammo seems a good combination.

357Sig seems like the 10mm a niche round, with a small but loyal following, that the majority of shooters do not par take in. Thus ammo choices are not as great or as cheap as in the big three.

The world is a 9mm world and the Ranger 127+P+ is a round that has been around for a longe time and is not really a "tweaked" round.

Sgt. Stiglitz
December 24, 2009, 06:13 PM
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=476934


Kahr PM 9 MM Second time at the Range

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Took the Kahr PM 9 MM to the range today again to try out some different 9 MM Loads I have at home as well as some reloads.

I chrono'd some Hirtenberger 9mm 100 gr Truncated Soft Ponts, Federal 115Gr JHP's, Federal Premium Hydra-Shock 124 Gr JHP's and some Winchester Ranger SXT 127Gr +P+ JHP's. Below are some photos of the groups at 10 yards and chrono data. The Ranger +P+ felt the hottest and gave a good jolt. You know you were shooting something but it was controllable non the less.


Hirtenberger 9mm 100gr. Truncated Soft Ponts Kahr PM 9 MM 3" Barrel:
1101 fps
1192 1192
1200 1200
1186 1186
1163

Federal 115Gr +P+ JHP's Kahr PM 9 MM 3" Barrel (Federal 9BPLE): :eek:
1085 fps
1165 1184
1131 1168
1163
Winchester Ranger SXT 127Gr +P+ JHP's: Kahr PM 9 MM 3" Barrel::neener:
1190 fps
1160 1124
1158 1139
1140

Out of the 2 1/4 " Barrel S&W 940 Federal 115Gr +P+ JHP's ran:
1198 fps
1196
1172
1191
1191
As a control I shot the Winchester Ranger STX 127Gr +P+ JHP's out of a S&W Model 39-2 with a 4" Barrel:
1258 fps
1262 1256
1244 1237
1242


Cast Lead Round Nose with 4.5Grs. Unique ran around 1050 fps and shot pretty well in the Polygonal rifling of the Kahr PM 9 MM. :what:

bestseller92
December 24, 2009, 07:20 PM
Ayoob mentions in this month's American Rifleman that Federal 115 grain JHP +P+ has an outstanding record in police usage, too.

Full Metal Jacket
December 24, 2009, 08:07 PM
i have the ranger 115grn +P+, like it better than the 127grn for more energy delivered. :)

i also have the federal white box 115grn +P+ that the border patrol used for years--this is better than any ranger jhp in my opinion. it expands much more dramatically.

cowboy1964
October 26, 2010, 09:49 PM
The muzzle energy difference between 115 +P+ and 127 +P+ is so slight its absolutely irrelevant. You'll almost get more variance shot to shot from the same gun!

The Ranger 127 +P+ expands more.

http://frag.110mb.com/

AK103K
October 26, 2010, 10:23 PM
Seems to me that hot 9mm +P+ for defense and nice cheap 9mm practice ammo seems a good combination.
Thats what I've come around to, although my practice rounds are pretty "warm" as far as reloads go, so there really isnt a whole lot of difference in how the gun feels when either are shot.

I've owned a number of guns in 357SIG as well, and still have a Glock 31. From a performance standpoint, +P+ 9mm and standard 357SIG are basically ballistic equivalents when using the same weight bullets. The advantage the 357SIG has is, the guns made for them are usually designed to handle the round. That said, my 31 seems to be taking more of a beating and showing more wear than my 9mm Glocks that have had a fair amount of +P+ through them.

I use the Winchester 127 +P+ in my guns. Its been accurate and not really any heavier recoil or blast wise, than my practice reloads. If youre looking for some, I've been getting it here....http://www.sgammo.com/product/winchester/50rd-9mm-winchester-ranger-127gr-p-t-series-ra9ta

50 round boxs for $26.95. They are good people to deal with. Ship fast too. They are showing 5 boxes in stock right now.

gofastman
October 26, 2010, 10:43 PM
Velocity seems to be the "holy grail" for a lot of folks when they decide to choose their handgun ammo, and they tend to gravitate towards +P or even +P+ loads. As mentioned above, velocity is not always good or useful. This is something to keep in mind when deciding between a "fast" 127gr +P+ or 147gr load in 9mm for example. Another factor is the ability to control the follow-up shot. If you have two loads which both perform about the same, you might consider going to the slow/heavy bullet due to the fact that the slower load is more easily controlled. Consider the data from Winchester in regards to their 9mm 127gr +P+ load (1250 fps) versus the 147gr load (990 fps) in the Ranger-T line:

Gelatin
127gr = 12.3" penetration and 0.64" ED
147gr = 13.9" penetration and 0.65" ED

4-Ply Denim
127gr = 12.5" penetration and 0.68" ED
147gr = 14.5" penetration and 0.66" ED

Heavy Cloth
127gr = 12.2" penetration and 0.68" ED
147gr = 14.0" penetration and 0.66" EDhttp://ammo.ar15.com/project/Self_Defense_Ammo_FAQ/index.htm

Im a big fan of +P loads in 124 and 147gr, especially the latter, because it recoils less for me. However, I feel if you need more speed out of a 9mm, you should start looking at a .357[something]

DonRon
October 27, 2010, 06:15 PM
Standard 9 mm Balistics for FMJ

9mm FMJ Ballistics

Brand Weight Velocity Power Factor
Fiocchi 124 1250 155.00
Fiocchi 147 1050 154.35
Fiocchi 158 940 148.52
Am Eagle 147 1000 147.00
Win RA9124N NATO 124 1185 146.94
RWS Sport FMJ 124 1181 146.44
S&B 124 1181 146.44
Rem. Express 147 990 145.53
UMC 147 990 145.53
Lawman 147 985 144.80
Prvi Partizan 147 984 144.65
S&B 115 1250 143.75
Fiocchi 115 1250 143.75
Am Eagle 124 1150 142.60
Glock Minimum* 124 1148 142.35
Win USA 124 1140 141.36
Blazer 147 950 139.65
Lawman 115 1200 138.00
PMC Bronze 124 1110 137.64
Win USA 115 1190 136.85
Rem. Express 124 1100 136.40
UMC 124 1100 136.40
Am Eagle 115 1180 135.70
Glock Minimum* 115 1180 135.70
Blazer 124 1090 135.16
Blazer Brass 124 1090 135.16
Lawman 124 1090 135.16
Cor-Bon match 147 900 132.30
My Reloads 147 900 132.30
PMC Bronze 115 1150 132.25
Prvi Partizan 115 1148 132.02
Blazer 115 1145 131.68
Blazer Brass 115 1145 131.68
Rem. Express 115 1135 130.53
UMC 115 1135 130.53
Federal Champ 115 1125 129.38

*From the 2000 Glock Armorer's manual

Win RA9124N NATO 124 1185 146.94 is what I carry, so dose the military

DenaliPark
October 27, 2010, 06:41 PM
If one can find and obtain the above-mentioned load, is this the current best of the 9mm crop? If so, please tell me of its record on the street.

I think this is the repackaged "Black Talon" of the 1990s that drew media scorn.

How does it compare to the Cor-Bon loads in 115 and 125? gr. and the 124 gr. Gold Dot +p?

I have a Ruger P-95, so hot loads are no problem.

Thanks
I carry the RA9TA load in my G-26, and G-19, it's a great performer from 3.5" and 4" barrels, however it has a tendency to shed it's jacket, especially from my 92FS or G-17!

The load is hard to come by for most folks because Winchester restricts it to LE/Govt sales only. I'm not sure about feeding them into an investment cast pistol such as the Ruger on a steady basis, then again you're not very likely to have the opportunity to do so anyway...

Winchester's "RA9124TP" and "RA9TA" are superior to any corbon 9mm loading that I am aware of. Speer Gold Dot, and Federal HST are also superb, though like the talon loadings, the HST's are also restricted by Federal....

AK103K
October 27, 2010, 08:00 PM
All of them are available if you look around the web. They may be somewhat hard to find due to demand, but they are available to the general public, and more often than not, in the 50 LE marked boxes. Prices are usually only a couple of bucks more than the "civilian" 20-25 round boxes too.

If you enjoyed reading about "Winchester Ranger 9mm 127 gr. +P+" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!