Ca Microstamping, AB1471


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glockman19
August 15, 2007, 01:56 PM
This is BAD legislation that if signed into law by Governor Schwarzenegger would quickly be repeated throughout the country. There are many inherint flaws in the legislation and I urge everyone whether CA residents or not to contact ALL manufacturers of handguns, Glcok, Beretta, S&W ect... and urge them to lobby against it. Here are some reasons:

1) Microstamping would cost millions of dollars to manufacturers to retool production lines and track the parts.

2) Firing pins can be and are commonly replaced, easily.

3) Increased cost of firearms to the public, lowering sales.

4) Microstamping DOES NOT WORK for Revolvers that do not eject spent shell casings.

5) Will NOT stop crime, criminals, and illegal gun ownership.

6) Microstamping the shell casing is nearly impossible the firing pin hits the primer NOT the shell casing.

7) removable in less than 10 seconds with a nail file. Replaceable with after market, new firing pin.

8) guns used by criminals are stolen and NOT easily tracible to the user

9) If CA does it Your state will/might be next.

10) increases the already widening disparity between Law Enforcement the "Haves" and ordinary citizens, the "Have Not's". CA LEO's already can purchase guns NOT on the CA DOJ approved list we can't.


If you're in CA please call or write the Assembly & Senate members in your district and the Gov. urging the m NOT to approve and sign. If you DO NOT live in CA please contact the manufacturers, Glock, S&W, Beretta and otheres and urge them to lobby against suck stupid, inneffective legislation that will hurt their business.

Thank You

Link to the legislation:
http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/07-08/bill/asm/ab_1451-1500/ab_1471_bill_20070711_amended_sen_v96.pdf

Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger
State Capitol Building
Sacramento, CA 95814
Phone: 916-445-2841
Fax: 916-445-4633

California State Senate:
http://www.senate.ca.gov/~newsen/senators/senators.htp

California State Assembly:
http://www.assembly.ca.gov/acs/acsframeset7text.htm

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Talonap
August 15, 2007, 03:29 PM
Perhaps they already know that this is a stupid law and are hoping that instead of trying to comply, gun manufacturers will just stop selling guns to CA. Back Door total gun control!

glennv
August 15, 2007, 03:38 PM
This isn't gun control. It's a ban on all guns. The people behind this know that manufactures will never comply with this, thus will not sell firearms in your state.

Rhode Island tried this and it died in committee. For us it didn't matter because it would violate state law. Unlike CA, gun ownership IS a civil right in RI per the RI Supreme Court.

In short, if it passes your screwed.

Librarian
August 15, 2007, 04:58 PM
The bill is currently in the Senate, so contact with your State Senator is the right thing to do. See this NRA Member's Council link (http://nramemberscouncils.com/legs.shtml?summary=ab1471&year=2007) for contact and bill information.

Remember there is a majority of Democrats in the Senate, as well as the Assembly, and party loyalty is seen as a Good Thing. To overcome that influence will require a lot of contact - please write.

everallm
August 15, 2007, 05:30 PM
This issue has been debated AND tested at length by the ATFE (Association of Firearm and Tool Mark Examiners) and was published in their Journal in 2006.

http://www.nssf.org/share/legal/docs/AFTEVol38No1KrivostaNanoTag.pdf

These are the folks who would actually have to use this technology and they stated categorically that it is not ready to live useage.

I would suggest any correpondance refer this documentation

obxned
August 15, 2007, 06:50 PM
If the object of gun control laws is the reduction of gun crimes, then mandatory additional sentences of 25 years without parole for any felony committed with a firearm would do it!

If the object of gun control laws is actually control of the citizens by their government, then laws which restrict or prevent ownership and use of firearms by that subject people are what is required.

Guess which this crap is.

bluto
August 15, 2007, 07:52 PM
Thank you Glockman19. This bill is like a vampire. It will not die. The CA assembly has tried this for the past several years. I'm writing my legislators and the Guv - again - to demand he veto this bill which serves only to harass law abiding voters.

SoCalShooter
August 15, 2007, 08:25 PM
I have lost faith in contacting senators or assembly men for this state but as for contacting the goventator I think I can do that.

orionengnr
August 15, 2007, 09:28 PM
Although I am no longer a CA resident (thank God) I wrote the Governator about a month ago on this subject.
Tried to appeal to his Libertarian/Conservative/Republican side (not sure that he actually has one..)

Received no response.

Good luck on this. Reasoning with fanatics is seldom fruitful though, so you have your work cut out for you.

glockman19
August 17, 2007, 01:32 PM
Yesterday was a busy day I contacted almost ALL Democratic Assembly persons and the Govorneor's office. It appears to be supported along pary lines so even if you are not in the district is would be good to call other Democratic legislators. Ialso contacted the Senators who were listed as sponsors of the bill.

Other key points:

11) Handguns already on the DOJ approved list DO NOT HAVE TO COMPLY.

12) Criminals don't buy new guns. Don't follow the laws anyway. So in a perfect Adherence the only ones who would own guns with microstamps would be those purchasing NEW guns from FFL's.

Keep up the good fight and again for ALL NON-CA residents. if this passes it won't be long before it comes to your state too.

glockman19
August 17, 2007, 02:49 PM
I just recieved a call back from Glock in GA. They are putting pressure on CA legislators and appealing to the Governor. They are prepared to stop selling to CA LEO's should the law pass. One down S&W & Beretta to go.

Librarian
August 17, 2007, 05:22 PM
Some facts and some reasonable estimates:

According to the AG's office, Californians bought between 300,000 and 400,000 guns each year, 2000-2004.

Of these, about half are handguns. Of handguns, about 70% are semi-automatic, the ones covered by the bill - 1/2 * 7/10 = 35/100; or about 35% of new handguns, in 2010, will be subject to this law, if passed.

Estimating from BATF gun sales/import numbers, California now has about 13 million handguns and 40 million long guns, none of which have or will have the microstamping. Values plus/minus a million or so don't change the problem much.

Say Californians buy 300,000 guns in 2010, and the proportions remain the same. About 105,000 new guns would have the microstamping (presuming manufacturers will cooperate). That's about 0.24% of the total California gun stock.

How many crimes is this supposed to solve? 99.75% of guns will not have the microstamping, 195,000 new guns - almost twice as many as have the microstamping - will be added to the stock each year, and semiautomatics on the Roster of Handguns already are exempt from microstamping.

This bill can't work the way it's proponents claim.

So they must expect this not to be the end. So we have to stop this bill, so they cannot get to the next step.

Tune up your letters and faxes, ready for the Governor - but don't send them yet.

The Governor, consistent with previous governors, really doesn't pay any attention to bills (unless he sponsors them) until they get out of the Legislature. For maximum effect (unless, of course, you're a Major Campaign Donor or you can speak to him personally) hold off contacting Arnold until the Senate votes on it.

Given the state of the budget, we might get a delay; on the other hand, some fine elected folks might figure that since they are getting nothing done anyway, it might be time to clean up some other business.

LAR-15
August 17, 2007, 08:03 PM
This would effectively kill pistol sales to LE, security and civilians in CA.

sharpie613
August 19, 2007, 06:38 PM
LAR-15 saidThis would effectively kill pistol sales to LE, security and civilians in CA.

If this ridiculous bill passes, I hope this is exactly what happens. I hope every firearms maker refuses to sell to the very same agencies that are out there touting this bill's made-up non-science. Sheriff Lee Baca, I'm looking at you. If those of us in this sad state(who, despite all of your slander and harassment and threats of prison rape, have done nothing wrong) are going to be subjected to this, then let these liars* throw rocks in the streets like the Palestinians. Maybe then we law abiding gun owners in California can get some public support.


*Yes, I am very aware that several folks aren't signing on to the nonsense. But they aren't calling Bravo Sierra on it either.

coyote_jr
August 19, 2007, 09:34 PM
I hope it passes. There have to be some people in CA with a breaking point.

SoCalShooter
August 19, 2007, 09:39 PM
I am past breaking point. But the problem is that so many california gun owners are not, they are fat and happy and do not care or do not understand. Gun owners are not as united as we need to be in this state. And it confounds me on what to do about it...we complain and complain but so many do nothing and do not contact their reps or make it known that we will not take it any more.

kermit315
August 19, 2007, 10:54 PM
i agree with SoCalShooter, even though i am only here temporarily, we are not united enough.

there are the fudds that are convinced it will never happen to them because "its just a skeet gun", the EBR owners that are too scared to be seen with them in public for fear of having police called on them and getting shot in the process of trying to explain that it is indeed legal, the (average) pistol owners that think the interpretation of the law means that they have to lock their guns under 7 layers of security and nobody talks to anybody enough to get all the information.

i am only here for a short time, but when this crap comes up i contact the people that i can, even though i am not registered to vote here, and let them know if the vote doesnt go a certain way that i will actively campaign against them and for their competition during the next electionl. i might not be allowed to vote here, but the policies effect me none the less.

that being said, i did contact people and voice my disgust.

Blackbeard
August 19, 2007, 11:06 PM
It seems to me that requiring guns to have non-existent technology is a de facto ban on guns, which Parker/Heller said was unconstitutional. Unfortunately you'd have to try your test case in the 9th Circus. Cross your fingers on Heller.

SoCalShooter
August 19, 2007, 11:25 PM
Please remember the california DOJ does not care they do not want guns here and they will work hard to get any legislation pushed through. The california DOJ does not even do background checks through NICS. they look through their database and find out if you are legit or not.

What counfounds me is what is necessary to get those that do not participate as frequently as others of us, how do we get them more involved how bad does it have to get before they get angry and start making a political change. What I also see as necessary is how do we get younger generations involved? these are truly what I cannot figure out how to do effectively with gun owners and non gun owners.

kermit315
August 19, 2007, 11:33 PM
^^lost me on that one. so, they dont do NICS checks in cali, or they do both checks in cali?

Librarian
August 20, 2007, 05:41 PM
lost me on that one. so, they dont do NICS checks in cali, or they do both checks in cali?As far as I can tell, we do not do NICS in California. All background checks go through the CA DOJ; what they do in Sacramento I don't know, but there's nothing 'instant' about them.

No web-casts on 1471 are scheduled for today (8/20) but floor sessions can often be seen through the California Channel (http://www.calchannel.com/). Faxes and phone calls to the Sacramento offices of legislators, while they are on the floor, appear to have some influence. Legislator's addresses and phone numbers available through this link (http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/yourleg.html).

SoCalShooter
August 20, 2007, 06:39 PM
The DOJ here takes its damn time 10 days to be exact before you are allowed to have your weapon. I do not know if the checks are instant or not. But I do know that they do not follow federal guidelines and check with the FBI because they do not have to. That is why I in part would not mind seeing the latest legislation go through because it could get the ball rolling for those of us who want instant background checks by the FBI.

kermit315
August 20, 2007, 10:15 PM
15 States Perform All Background Checks at the State Level

These states do all checks through a state-based system which includes checking the NICS database in addition to other records that may not be available on the NICS system: Arizona, California, Colorado, Connecticut, Florida, Georgia, Hawaii, Illinois, Nevada, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Tennessee, Utah, Vermont and Virginia.

this is from the brady bunch.

http://www.bradycampaign.org/facts/issues/?page=waitxstate

not trying to argue, just trying to get it straight.

SoCalShooter
August 20, 2007, 10:41 PM
No argument here kermit315 its good info to know. My understanding is that they did no checks with the feds.

LAR-15
August 20, 2007, 11:18 PM
I think states can substitute their own checks in place of the NICS.

kermit315
August 20, 2007, 11:32 PM
ok, i did some research of my own, and here is what i found. for what it is worth, sorry for the thread hijack.

In California, the California Department of Justice ("DOJ") serves as a state point of contact for implementation of the Brady Act. Bureau of Justice Statistics Survey of State Procedures Related to Firearm Sales, Midyear 2004 (August 2005). With limited exceptions, all firearms transfers must be conducted through a licensed dealer. Cal. Penal Code § 12072. Dealers then process each firearms transfer through DOJ, which in turn uses NICS and other databases (including its own records, and those it is authorized to request from the State Department of Mental Health) to verify that prospective purchasers are not prohibited from possessing a firearm. Section 12076(d). In addition to the federal purchaser prohibitions referenced above, California has adopted other classes of prohibited persons, and incorporated some of the federal prohibitions as state offenses.

http://www.lcav.org/states/california.asp#bradylaw

so, it seems that while DOJ is the point of contact, they check NICS and their own databases, not just the Federal one.

GhostlyKarliion
August 21, 2007, 03:17 AM
It's been well established that a state can not secede from the union...

But can we vote another state off, like on survivor? I'd bet that nationally we could let ********** be their own country so their liberal trash stops infecting the US...

[/rant off]

really, this one has been beaten to death, micro stamping can not, does not, and will not work, end of intelligent discussion.

Bobarino
August 21, 2007, 02:41 PM
sorry to sound heartless, but i'm done feeling sorry for Californians. this type of stuff goes on constantly yet the people keep electing the same type of representation. when you elect Kindergarten Cop as your governor, what do you REALLY expect? .50BMG's were just the first of a long list guns that Arnie will gladly ban to get re-elected. people who fight the good fight in CA, good on ya, but honestly, just get out while you still can. let CA self destruct. it is beyond hope. if you live in just about any urban setting in CA, odds are you can sell your house and buy one comparable or even bigger/better somewhere back in the USA. after years upon years of the same things over and over, i've lost hope, the desire to try to help and all sympathy for Californians. i know the people on this board are likely not the problem but you (Californians collectively) made your own bed. now you get to lay it in.

Bobby

sammy
August 24, 2007, 12:18 AM
sorry to sound heartless, but i'm done feeling sorry for Californians. this type of stuff goes on constantly yet the people keep electing the same type of representation. when you elect Kindergarten Cop as your governor, what do you REALLY expect? .50BMG's were just the first of a long list guns that Arnie will gladly ban to get re-elected. people who fight the good fight in CA, good on ya, but honestly, just get out while you still can. let CA self destruct. it is beyond hope. if you live in just about any urban setting in CA, odds are you can sell your house and buy one comparable or even bigger/better somewhere back in the USA. after years upon years of the same things over and over, i've lost hope, the desire to try to help and all sympathy for Californians. i know the people on this board are likely not the problem but you (Californians collectively) made your own bed. now you get to lay it in.

Bobby



You are correct. The majority of people I know, co-workers, family, friends, the lady next door would not mind a bit if guns were gone from California forever. The sad thing is I have been a California resident my adult life and have only one friend that shares my views on guns. I keep my hobby in the closet so to speak. Most are terrified of them, they have never used them. They watch CSI in tv and see the horror and sorrow they cause. This microstamping bill is going to pass and that is very sad but if the people want it what can you do? I will keep up the fight, calling and e-mailing the powers that be, but what else can I do? :(

spencerhut
August 24, 2007, 02:27 PM
I was talking to the sales rep from CZ at the Steel Challenge last week, really nice guy, my wife walked away and said "I'd buy a gun from him anytime". When the subject of my formerly fine state, my place of birth, California came up this otherwise nice man became visibly angry. The ignorance and laziness of the population of this state is beyond measure. Banning every gun is just fine with the sheeple in our state, put an extra .5 cent tax on beer or tax TV and the entire state would revolt and behead the entire state senate.

And yes, I call, write, fax and even make the occasional trip to the state capitol building.

DomMega
August 31, 2007, 02:33 PM
Our "Republican" governor is already doing magazine cover photo shoots with Mayor Michael Bloomberg. That being said, I think our governor has little to no gun rights for the individual on his agenda. I hate this state. I did leave a message with his secretary to the effect of, "I thought Mr. Schwarzenneger" was a Republican, when is he going to start acting like it?!" I've already called 17 or so other assemblyman/women on this issue and told them to vote no on it, but this state is the way it is because the people just don't care what legislation passes and what doesn't. The criminals are going to do whatever they want anyway and the rest of the population are just sheep.

I'm moving to Oregon or Colorado..............real soon. I don't like living in a communist society within the Republic of **********.

Guy B. Meredith
August 31, 2007, 03:32 PM
One very uncomfortable thought that has occurred to me is the possibility of someone getting the idea of banning revolvers because they do not leave an evidence trail. :mad:

bluto
September 1, 2007, 03:23 PM
It's never over -

To all those who keep telling Californians over and over that we've gotten what we deserve; quit whining; move out; "I'm sick of hearing about your problems,"; "I hope they stop selling guns to California!!!"; and worst of all, "It's a lost cause." We hear you. Loud and clear. Again and again.

Hey, no one is asking for your sympathy. But it's hard to understand the defeatism and personal jabs coming towards a group of men who are fighting for their rights. We're on your side! We believe, like you, in the second Amendment. And just let me say, It ain't over. California is still one of the biggest gun purchasers in the nation. Sometimes all the criticism sounds a little like the Democrats telling the soldiers fighting in Iraq that they've lost the war. It's just as easy to be constructive as negative. I just get tired of fighting our legislature AND the guys on the forums! :D Don't be mad at us, be mad with us! Sick of hearing about it? Fine. Rest assured that we Californians have it etched in our memory that IT'S OUR FAULT!!! O.K.? Ignore the posts, but why pile on? The people posting are the ones writing letters and fighting on. Giving up is NEVER the solution.

Still fighting the good fight - in the trenches . . . .

8200rpm
September 1, 2007, 05:29 PM
Hey, no one is asking for your sympathy. But it's hard to understand the defeatism and personal jabs coming towards a group of men who are fighting for their rights. We're on your side! We believe, like you, in the second Amendment. And just let me say, It ain't over. California is still one of the biggest gun purchasers in the nation. Sometimes all the criticism sounds a little like the Democrats telling the soldiers fighting in Iraq that they've lost the war. It's just as easy to be constructive as negative. I just get tired of fighting our legislature AND the guys on the forums! Don't be mad at us, be mad with us! Sick of hearing about it? Fine. Rest assured that we Californians have it etched in our memory that IT'S OUR FAULT!!! O.K.? Ignore the posts, but why pile on? The people posting are the ones writing letters and fighting on. Giving up is NEVER the solution.


I agree with you wholeheartedly!

I've contemplated moving to a more gun friendly state. But, all that amounts to is just quiting, giving up, throwing in the towel in our fight for our Constitutional rights.

It's very often HYPOCRISY whenever CA expatriates harps on about standing up for gun rights, then gloats about how smart he is because he left.

You people are handing CA and all its electoral power to the liberals. Don't you understand?! Some of you out-of-staters need to MOVE INTO CA to help us fight.

The saying, "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety" applies to gun owners, too, not just gun grabbers.

Think about that the next time you think you're so noble for abondoning this state. Funny how you people want to support the "freedom" of Iraqis, yet you do nothing to support the freedom of your fellow countrymen. You know who you are, and you should be ashamed of yourselves.

It's just a matter of time before the same BS happens in your state. If running (moving out) is your idea of a solution, guess what? Eventually, you'll run out of states to move to.

8200rpm
September 1, 2007, 05:46 PM
On the other hand, I think it's wonderful that Barrett no longer sells firearms in CA... even to law enforcement. This is a great idea! If the citizens can't have guns, neither should the police!

Will the other manufacturers give up the CA LE market to support individual gun rights? They should, or else eventually LE will be their ONLY market. But, I doubt any other manufacturer has the foresight to support individual gun rights in this country. They only care about quarterly earnings.

I can only hope that other firearms and ammunition manufacturers follow in the footsteps of Barrett. We just need a couple more large companies to do this. Suppose Federal, Winchester, SIGARMS and S&W follows the Barrett. If Glock and Remington swoops in to take the LE market, individual consumers in the rest of the country could boycott Glock and Remington as it was done with S&W and Ruger in the past for betraying gunowners. This needs the momentum of the larger manufacturers. Barrett alone will not change things, but it is a terrific precendent and a great gesture.

I admire Barrett for their novel approach in supporting our rights.

http://www.crpa.org/showpages.asp?pid=1172

Charles Foxtrot
September 1, 2007, 05:56 PM
.
You guys in the other 49 don't realize how much it benefits you to have your disaffected, disgruntled, non-productive, mentally ill, and artistic hop a bus for California. We've been the promised land for the outcasts of your society for decades. Add the Hollywood crowd and it's no wonder this place is screwed up.

Every one of my "representatives" has (Dem) after their names. Every one is a hard left socialist. Taxes increase every year, the schools are a pathetic, politically correct jokes, crime is prevalent and largely ignored, and Government continually gets more invasive. I don't bother writing anymore -- it'll just get me put on a list.

I'm a 4th generation Californian, and I'm looking to get the hell out.

Other than that, it's 90 degrees here and beautiful.

revjen45
September 1, 2007, 06:12 PM
"You guys in the other 49 don't realize how much it benefits you to have your disaffected, disgruntled, non-productive, mentally ill, and artistic hop a bus for California."
Actually I do. I wish every junkie, flasher, gangsta, robber, vagrant and other degenerate were offered a choice between prison and a bus ticket to Santa Monica. If the Democrats love them so much, let Malibu Babs demonstrate her compassion for the downtrodden by taking in some reeking bums whose main occupation is chronic intoxication. We got out of the DPRK back in ought 92 and it's something I have never regretted. People always get out of a Communist country if they have the chance.

bluto
September 1, 2007, 07:05 PM
8200rpm -

I admire what Barrett did, but in the long run refusing to sell to California is only reinforcing the totalitarian mentality across the nation. Our legislators are delighted when gun manufacturers pull out of our state. They're trying to ban them every session of the legislature. To the only thing we're really doing by scaring off gun makers is punishing the citizenry. That's the "they get what they deserve" song all over again. Believe me, if it ever happens that guns are outlawed in California, the only thing that will happen is that they'll start screaming that the crime problem is coming across the border from AZ, OR, NV,or even Washington. Then, with a huge proportion of the the national vote, California will start demanding a federal solution. Sound familiar? Think "Katrina", a purely local, entirely Democratic problem that was the result of decades of Democrat corruption. Remember what happened? New Orleans re-elected that corrupt moron Ray Nagin as mayor and the nation blamed Dub'ya. No one's gonna learn any "lessons" by choking off the firearm supply to our state. Then we'll just be more like New York, New Jersey, Hawaii, and Massachusetts.

The way to go is to keep gun ownership as healthy as possible out here. The fight is here, the fight is now. The real problem was already touched upon: Gun owners are lazy. They'll take the time to post endlessly about how this or that is a bad law or about what to do when the SHTF, but they won't take 10 minutes to write to their representative. A lot don't even vote.

I try to support everyone who is standing up for their rights by getting involved. Hell, they're at least 20 million gun owners in the U.S., probably more. If they all showed up to vote we wouldn't be having this conversation. We need to encourage the fighters and bring more into the fold; no matter where they are. You don't win battles by taking pot shots at the guys fighting on your side!:D

Oh, and BTW, think activism doesn't work? I was alerted to OSHA's bid to limit sales of ammunition by classifying ammo as an explosive. Saw it on Sigforum, wrote to the proper agency whose address was provided, some wrote to Rush. It made talk radio programs and the written response must've been pretty big because they pulled it - for now.

Writing letters just has to be part of being a gun owner. Like cleaning your firearms!

glockman19
September 1, 2007, 08:07 PM
After carefully reading the bill it is so fatally flawed it won't stop any gun from being changed. The proposed legislation says that the microstamping must appear on the "cartridge" everyone who has a gun or has handled ammunition knows that's impossible, Thanks to Michael Fuer a non-gunner the firing pin strikes the primer not the case. As it reads the firing pin must strike the case NOT the primer. Impossoble to get a round to fire that way.

Ammunition is made of four parts:
Case
Primer
Powder
Bullet

Goes to show you the people making the laws know NOTHING about what their talking about.

Ignorance at it's finest.

Charles Foxtrot
September 2, 2007, 03:14 PM
.
I'm wondering if legislating an impossible microstamping requirement would effectively end all new gun sales. I wouldn't put it past the bastards in Sacratomato.

glockman19
September 6, 2007, 08:40 PM
AB 1471 Was read for a third time and passed by the senate now goes on the the assembly where it was already voted on for ratification before moving on to Gov. Schwartzeneger for signing.

A sad day for Californians. Basically anything that is not on the CA DOJ approved list is Screwed in the future. Hope that all that nothing falls off.

Guess I'll have to start buying one a month again right away.

I was looking to take September off and save some dough.

kermit315
September 6, 2007, 08:44 PM
wonder if they realize how many gun stores this will put under. i know they dont care, but maybe if they ( state gov)get threatened with their jobs it will wake them up.

SoCalShooter
September 6, 2007, 08:47 PM
Everyone its time to start sending emails, phone calls and letters to Gov Arnold. At this point he is the last point of defense for us.


http://www.efsgv.org/issues/illegalmarkets/ballistics/ballidcali.cfm

http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Read.aspx?ID=3098

http://www.eetimes.com/press_releases/prnewswire/showPressRelease.jhtml?articleID=X612945&CompanyId=1

Here is the email for the govenator.
http://gov.ca.gov/interact

Here is the phone number also.

http://gov.ca.gov/interact

Matt King
September 6, 2007, 09:05 PM
What is Arnold's record on the RKBA?

kermit315
September 6, 2007, 09:11 PM
linky to govenator

http://gov.ca.gov/interact

SoCalShooter
September 6, 2007, 09:20 PM
Its not great but he is not ignorant and I believe he has stopped legistlation before. I just cannot find out what it was.

http://www.ontheissues.org/Governor/Arnold_Schwarzenegger_Gun_Control.htm

Robert Hairless
September 6, 2007, 09:21 PM
I hope that no one minds too much if I make a modest suggestion.

The principle behind it is that people fear what they do not know.

My own observation during decades of interest in firearms is that many gunowners tend to be exclusive. Those gunowners who focus on tactical matters aren't much interested in people who don't share that interest and even sneer at them as "sheeple." So what happens is inevitable. The people who are sneered at or ignored tend to become opponents. When those opponents reach critical mass they vote against you. No matter how much they're insulted or ignored they continue to vote against you.

Here's the suggestion: start doing missionary work with unquenchable enthusiasm. Encourage friends and acquaintances to join you at the range--one at a time, so you can focus on each one--and introduce them to shooting in a way that makes them love it. Do it over and over again, one person after another. Make each of those people successful. Don't try to lecture them, don't sneer at them, and don't try to make them experts: help them to have fun.

My wife and I have been doing it for years. Some of the most anti-gun people we know have actually enjoyed themselves and asked when they can go shooting with us again. A few of them have bought handguns so they can bring their own.

One thing we always do is take a digital camera on these excursions. We focus on taking pictures of them in action and immediately afterwards we visit a local drugstore to print out a few of the best snapshots to give to them.

We've been astonished, by the way, how good every one of these people have shot. Of course we teach them but it's amazing how fast they catch on. Again, the emphasis of all these excursions is to help them have a good time and overcome their fears.

The fears go very quickly too. We explain that gunowners don't compromise on safety, and that includes us. We then quickly go through Jeff Cooper's four rules of gun safety and explain the reason for each of them briefly. They realize immediately that guns don't just "go off" and kill people.

We don't lecture them about anything, especially not about politics. It's fun time.

kermit315
September 6, 2007, 09:52 PM
Just fired this off. I know it is weak, but it was the best I could do (I am on the phone juggling work stuff right now)

Dear Governor Schwarzenegger,

I am writing in regards to Ca Microstamping, AB1471. I sincerely hope you see that there is no benefit to this bill. The technology to implement it is impossible at this time and it opens up law abiding citizens to criminal and civil prosecution. Whats to stop somebody from picking up a spent shell casing when I am at the range and dropping it at a crime scene, putting blame for a crime on me and letting them off scott free. People that want to use guns in crimes will still get them, whether they go over state lines and get them, or steal them from other citizens. This bill would effectively disarm people and leave no viable means of self defense to home invasion or other crimes. It will turn California into a giant victim disarmament zone, where the criminals know that whatever person they decide to go after will be disarmed and "easy pickings". Whatever guns dont comply with this bill will no longer be on the CA Approved list according to DOJ, and since the technology to comply doesnt exist, nobody would be allowed to purchase new guns in California, also costing thousands of people their jobs, and some families their businesses. All of this for a bill that will do nothing to curb crime in this state.

If you want a real step in the right direction of curbing violent crime in the state, look at going to a "shall issue" state CCW law. That centralizes training requirements and guidlines, and allows people that are otherwise qualified to carry concealed weapons. Statistics show that areas that have shall issue permits have generally a lower crime rate per capita than a similar demographic area without firearms permits. Criminals arent as fast to rob someone that might be armed. They might be criminals, but they for the most part arent dumb and dont want to die.

Thank you for your time.

Kermit315
Pt Mugu, CA

Hope it does something other than get trashed.

ilcylic
September 6, 2007, 09:53 PM
I second Robert Hairless's suggestion. I've had great luck in online debates with local (non-rabid) antis when I play the "You say you've never even held a gun before. Let's go to the range and get you some hands-on experience" card on them. I point out that it's on my dime, and they are perfectly free to still dislike guns afterwards, but most pro-gunners will at least respect the fact that they went out and tried it.

Of course, I've been lucky in that none of mine have still hated guns afterwards. :D

Edit: It's true too, how amazing it is most of these antis turn out to be, at the range. :)

bluto
September 6, 2007, 11:34 PM
Robert Hairless -

Great post. Thanks for the positive suggestion.

SoCalShooter and Kermit315 - nice letters.

I just fired off my 5th contact to the governator as I did last time this type of bill was up for a veto. What I said then, I'll say now:

If anyone from out of state could make time to write the governor it would be extremely helpful. Arnold is very sensitive to national interest and the fact that people from out of state were interested in what he's doing here might be even more influential than a home grown contact. Just a few lines. Five minutes.

I'll be glad to do the same for you anytime. Just PM me.

Librarian
September 7, 2007, 12:29 AM
Now is the time to write to Arnold.

One suggestion - don't post your letters. PM them to one another, email, something private.

While we outnumber the antis, there's no point giving them specific things to write about; let them continue in their errors while we refute them to the Governor's office.

SoCalShooter
September 7, 2007, 02:23 PM
re: bluto

Thanks, I called the .gov office this morning and said my peace.

ArmedBear
September 7, 2007, 02:34 PM
This patented technology is owned by a single company that has lobbied heavily to force money into its own pockets by having California make this law. That's what this is REALLY all about, since the Legislature has chosen to ignore the UC Davis study that it commissioned to investigate the technology.

http://www.eetimes.com/press_releases/prnewswire/showPressRelease.jhtml?articleID=X612945&CompanyId=1

SoCalShooter
September 7, 2007, 02:35 PM
^ precisely and CA gun owners have been able to do absoluetly nothing about it. I cannot understand why...obviously our legistlature is having its pockets greased.

ArmedBear
September 7, 2007, 02:42 PM
obviously our legistlature is having its pockets greased.

Exactly.

That's why Arnold is our only hope here. I don't care for the guy much any more, or for his current politics, but he does have some sense of right and wrong, I think, even now.

SoCalShooter
September 7, 2007, 02:44 PM
Agreed. The question now is how do we take this state back or has it tipped past the point of no return?

ArmedBear
September 7, 2007, 02:49 PM
I think it's tipped.

Doesn't mean I'll totally give up, but I think it's tipped.

Maybe redistricting would change something, but I don't know. When I get some rabid anti-war, pro-surrender flyer from my congressbitch, and I live in a Republican city in an area with a few military bases, I can only think one thing: gerrymandering. Real, serious gerrymandering.

No representative, of any political persuasion, would DARE print something like that in San Diego, if she thought she had to win votes. No way, no how.

Perhaps we should have packed up when we sold our last place. Hard to say. I will say that my wife and I weigh costs and benefits often, and at some point, we will leave, along with many others. Only bummer is, by then, there will be a full-blown recession here. It's coming, even though the California-centric can't see it.

On the other hand, that's the only real hope we have for political change.

HonorsDaddy
September 7, 2007, 02:50 PM
You said:

Agreed. The question now is how do we take this state back or has it tipped past the point of no return?

Well I've got some suggestions, but certain topics aren't supposed to be discussed here.

glockman19
September 7, 2007, 03:53 PM
The question now is how do we take this state back or has it tipped past the point of no return?

Vote. Be pro active. Support candidates not just monetarily but host events to support them.
Write to everyone you can. Papers, Blogs, legislators, news outlets. Posting on gun forums is great but you're generally preaching to the chior.

Don't give up.

ArmedBear
September 7, 2007, 04:22 PM
Redistricting must be priority 1.

We don't GET to vote, right now. The system is rigged.

In the mean time, propositions, letters, and votes are important. But redistricting is in play right now, and THAT is the most important thing going on, by a long shot.

glockman19
September 7, 2007, 08:43 PM
Just wanted to say...

Thank you...:)

to everyone who contacted a CA legislator, the Gov. or a Manufacturer today. Let's keep it up Arnold has until October 14th to sign the bill into law.

G19

"Don't go down without a fight"

glockman19
September 10, 2007, 10:46 AM
Arnold has until October 14th to sign the bill into law. Let's contact him every day until 10/14/2007.

Matt King
September 10, 2007, 05:42 PM
Is the CRPA all over this?

Scorpiusdeus
September 11, 2007, 02:10 PM
It's on it's way to the Governator. Please contact his office ASAP!!!

http://gov.ca.gov/interact#email

by phone at (916) 445-2841, fax at (916) 445-4633

bluto
September 11, 2007, 08:44 PM
Just finished writing him again.

I reminded him that I've voted for him twice, that the bill is leftist (so he has to consider with whom he is aligning himself) and that the technology is fatally flawed and targets only good citizens.

If Ahnold doesn't veto this then there's no difference between him and a full blown anti.

Thanks to everyone who has participated on this thread and special thanks to Glockman19 for starting it.

joe4702
September 11, 2007, 09:09 PM
Arnold has vetoed every gun control bill except AB50, which banned .50 caliber rifle sales. However, this was before his hard swing to the left after all his mainly conservative initiatives went down in flames in a special election.

I'm mailing a couple of letters, against microstamping and the lead ammo ban and also plan to call. Couldn't get thru today which is I hope a good sign.

glockman19
September 23, 2007, 07:51 PM
To important to get burried.

BTT

SoCalShooter
September 24, 2007, 02:18 PM
Agreed to important. Anyone have any new news?

Joshua C
September 24, 2007, 02:37 PM
Arnold has until October 14th to sign the bill into law.

How is California about keeping bills on the governors desk without signing or a veto? Do they become law after a period of time under such circumstances?

kermit315
September 24, 2007, 02:53 PM
yes, after 30 days without action (veto) they automatically become law. That is why it is so important that we kill this now. If he sits on his hands, he didnt sign it, but it becomes law anyway.

kermit315
September 24, 2007, 03:38 PM
btw, Arnold has been signing stuff. He is currently out of state, but he signed a bunch of stuff, so our stuff could be in the next batch when he returns from NY. Keep hitting him up. There is still time.

Jamie

Snowdiver
September 25, 2007, 10:34 PM
I wrote him and reminded him that I voted for him. It will be his political demise if he signs this bill. I too live in an area that has a Republican Representative and I write many letters, hopefully they make a difference. Republicans ALWAYS respond, Democrats NEVER respond. It must be the subject matter. If that is an indicator the Governor did not respond to my AB 1471 letter. I chalked it up to his being busy and agreeing with me.

eric.cartman
September 27, 2007, 01:33 PM
any update on the microstamping bill?

glockman19
September 27, 2007, 01:44 PM
NO not yet. I check daily and will post once there is any word of signing or veto.

DCoats
October 1, 2007, 12:30 AM
I have called several times already in opposition to the bill!

DCoats
October 1, 2007, 01:34 AM
.....

glockman19
October 1, 2007, 02:17 AM
We're into the last 2 weeks. Please support if you're in CA or not. The bill is #1 in the Que so obviously very active.

Please call and vote in opposition of AB 1471

Phone: 916-445-2841
press 1 - For english
Press 2 - To voice opinion on an Assembly bill
press 1 - Assembly bill 1471 Firearm microstamping
Press 2 - If you Oppose

Thank You

Scorpiusdeus
October 1, 2007, 02:00 PM
Call from as many phones as you have access to and call often.

Spot77
October 1, 2007, 02:18 PM
We're into the last 2 weeks. Please support if you're in CA or not. The bill is #1 in the Que so obviously very active.

Please call and vote in opposition of AB 1471

Phone: 916-445-2841
press 1 - For english
Press 2 - To voice opinion on an Assembly bill
press 1 - Assembly bill 1471 Firearm microstamping
Press 2 - If you Oppose

Thank You


This info was reposted on many Maryland board last week and I know that tons of gunnies have been calling.

glockman19
October 1, 2007, 02:42 PM
Spot77,

A Thanks to you and your members who are helping us all.

G19

Joshua C
October 1, 2007, 02:56 PM
Just called.

learn2shoot
October 2, 2007, 04:19 PM
called again - used *67 to block caller ID

kermit315
October 2, 2007, 04:24 PM
this is starting to bother me that we arent hearing anything about this from Sac. Its quiet, too quiet.

glockman19
October 2, 2007, 06:00 PM
this is starting to bother me that we arent hearing anything about this from Sac. Its quiet, too quiet.

The Gov. is in China as there is a 4 day recess. He'll probably be signing bills at the end of the week. He'll be back in the office Thursday or Friday so I wouldn't expect an news before then, most likely sometime next week.

Keep calling & e-mailing.

SB1471 is still at the top of the phone Que.

glockman19
October 3, 2007, 11:29 AM
Eleven (11) more days. until it lives or dies.

JJE
October 4, 2007, 12:39 AM
Thanks for taking the lead on this G19. My wife and I called the Gov's office today and I alerted my hunting buddies.

Snowdiver
October 4, 2007, 03:18 AM
Called tonight.

Frightener 88
October 4, 2007, 03:47 AM
called and opposed.

glockman19
October 5, 2007, 12:46 PM
9 more Days. October 14, 2007 is the last Day the Gov. can sign.

four of the nine are weekends. Oct 6,7 & 13, 14.

Let's push this one over the top with OPPOSITION.

Phone: 916-445-2841
press 1 - For english
Press 2 - To voice opinion on an Assembly bill
press 1 - Assembly bill 1471 Firearm microstamping
Press 2 - If you Oppose

Noxx
October 5, 2007, 01:11 PM
I don't usually stump at work, but I've gotten everyone in my shop to call.

glockman19
October 5, 2007, 02:02 PM
Good Work Noxx

Thanks

force_quit
October 5, 2007, 02:33 PM
Called and opposed. Was so easy. No excuse not to do it.

Hawk
October 5, 2007, 03:18 PM
Texas cell number just jumped in.

AndyC
October 5, 2007, 06:51 PM
Another Texas caller here (I do business in CA, so what the hey) ;)

xd45gaper
October 6, 2007, 01:20 PM
wasnt friday the deadline?

glockman19
October 8, 2007, 12:20 AM
wasnt friday the deadline?

NO October 14th.

glockman19
October 8, 2007, 12:05 PM
If you haven't already plese call. Doesn't matter it you're a CA resident or NOT.

Thank You

Phone: 916-445-2841
press 1 - For english
Press 2 - To voice opinion on an Assembly bill
press 1 - Assembly bill 1471 Firearm microstamping
Press 2 - If you Oppose

Action must be taken by October 14th.

Three options
1) he signs it, it becomes law
2) he doesn't sign it, it becomes law
3) he vetoe's it, The only way for it to die.

xd45gaper
October 8, 2007, 01:00 PM
oohh the choices on board for this little bitty, i could see arnie not signing it and it becoming a law. that way he doesnt "offend" anyone, he didnt sign it into law, and he didnt veto it both sides will be happy!!!:fire:

glockman19
October 9, 2007, 01:30 PM
It is still #1 in the Que so even if you've called before please call again.

Action, a VETO, must be taken in the Next 5 days or it becomes law.

Please help your California Bretheren before we fall Further into the abyss.

Conju
October 9, 2007, 01:39 PM
I don't think arnold is not going to sign it. He'll either sign it or veto it. If he's a half decent person or politician he will listen to his constituency.

BamBam-31
October 9, 2007, 03:43 PM
Called again on my celly. Took 23 seconds flat. No excuses, guys. CALL NOW!

Im283
October 9, 2007, 04:00 PM
called just now from Tennessee, hope it helped.

IndianaBoy
October 9, 2007, 04:25 PM
Called and opposed.

glockman19
October 10, 2007, 02:56 AM
Only four more days and a decision has not been made yet still #1 in the phone Que.

Please Help and call, even if you already have. Your California Brethern are asking for your hepl in defeating this bill.

Thank you to everyone who has already called. Your vote in opposition is greatly appreciated.

I have a feeling this will go down to the wire and wil be signed or vetoed Friday or Sunday. Sunday is the last day.

Thanks again for your support.

G19

Big45
October 10, 2007, 08:19 AM
Called and voted no. Good Luck Cali.

Matt King
October 10, 2007, 07:44 PM
Bump for a good cause.

glockman19
October 11, 2007, 12:56 AM
Only 3 days remain before we'll know.

Thanks again to everyone who has called to help our cause.

Oddly enough I'll be in Sacramento this weekend.

I can PM details but won't post publicly.

G19

glockman19
October 11, 2007, 12:21 PM
btt...

Chrome
October 11, 2007, 12:25 PM
We're into the last 2 weeks. Please support if you're in CA or not. The bill is #1 in the Que so obviously very active.

Please call and vote in opposition of AB 1471

Phone: 916-445-2841
press 1 - For english
Press 2 - To voice opinion on an Assembly bill
press 1 - Assembly bill 1471 Firearm microstamping
Press 2 - If you Oppose

Thank You

For you guys too lazy to scroll back, here it is again.

Later,
Chrome...

glockman19
October 11, 2007, 01:39 PM
Thank You,

Chrome

Simms65
October 11, 2007, 02:08 PM
I called and opposed.

David

strat81
October 11, 2007, 05:12 PM
Called and opposed.

BamBam-31
October 11, 2007, 05:33 PM
Just wanted to say that all you non-Californians calling in ROCK!! :D

Keep 'em coming, folks!

glockman19
October 11, 2007, 11:10 PM
I will be in Sacramento Tomorrow 10/12/07

Please Everyone, Call. In state out-of-state, just call. if each of the 10,645 active members calls we can put this issue down until it comes up again next year. Persistance on boths sides will be the side that ultimately wins.

Please call and vote in opposition of AB 1471

Phone: 916-445-2841
press 1 - For english
Press 2 - To voice opinion on an Assembly bill
press 1 - Assembly bill 1471 Firearm microstamping
Press 2 - If you Oppose

Thank You

glockman19
October 12, 2007, 10:32 AM
To immportant not to keep on top.

If you haven't called already, please call today.

RoadkingLarry
October 12, 2007, 11:19 AM
Made the call -
Even the recording is partisan! - Excited voice: If you support 1471 press 1, dejected voice: if you oppose 1471 press 2. Alright it might be my bias showing but it sounded like it to me....

Mike128
October 12, 2007, 12:03 PM
Called from home, cell, and work. Being in MD I know we are next. We are already stuck with the ballistic fingerprinting but I'm sure they would like to add more.

Also, I got a bad feeling about this. He may wait until the end of the day to avoid the media backlash because they will be involved in a new story on Monday. But I am worried.

Zundfolge
October 12, 2007, 12:15 PM
Even the recording is partisan! - Excited voice: If you support 1471 press 1, dejected voice: if you oppose 1471 press 2. Alright it might be my bias showing but it sounded like it to me...
I had the same impression ... but again I'm just as biased as you are :p

He may wait until the end of the day to avoid the media backlash because they will be involved in a new story on Monday.
Thats an angle I hadn't thought of ... actually that thought encourages me a bit :)

ArmedBear
October 12, 2007, 12:57 PM
Even the recording is partisan! - Excited voice: If you support 1471 press 1, dejected voice: if you oppose 1471 press 2. Alright it might be my bias showing but it sounded like it to me...

Partisan, or did they hire an unemployed thespian to do the recording?

Maybe it's like that on every bill. Upbeat YES! and dejected NO!.

California may have a low unemployment rate, but not necessarily among people with degrees in Theater.:)

glockman19
October 12, 2007, 02:20 PM
Again A special Thanks to everyone who has hepled and called.

There are only Today, Sat & Sun left so if you can call again, have someone else call, and let's keep this thread on top for the next 48 hours.

Thank you:
Talonap
glennv
Librarian
everallm
obxned
bluto
SoCalShooter
orionengnr
LAR-15
sharpie613
coyote_jr
kermit315
Blackbeard
GhostlyKarliion
Bobarino
Sammy
spencerhut
DomMega
Guy B. Meredith
8200rpm
Charles Foxtrot
revjen45
Charles Foxtrot
Matt King
Robert Hairless
ilcylic
ArmedBear
HonorsDaddy
Scorpiusdeus
joe4702
Joshua C
Snowdiver
eric.cartman
DCoats
Spot77
learn2shoot
JJE
Frightener 88
Noxx
force_quit
Hawk
AndyC
xd45gaper
Conju
BamBam-31
Im283
IndianaBoy
Big45
Chrome
Simms65
strat81
RoadkingLarry
Mike128
Zundfolge

Thanks again for your support.

G19

MikeyLikesIt
October 12, 2007, 02:30 PM
Called as did my wife and brother and they called two friends and they called two friends...

Snowdiver
October 12, 2007, 06:08 PM
I'm getting everyone I know to call, I've called too many times from my own phones...4 of them.

phorvick
October 12, 2007, 06:19 PM
Called from MN...took less than 30 seconds...was actually fun!

jonjon1885
October 12, 2007, 07:01 PM
huge bias in the chic's voice :barf: , any how opposed from Tempe, AZ.

The peoples Republik of ********** should vote to blow the fault and float off in the pacific as their own nation state island and bring new york and new jersey with them.


just my two cents

jonjon

The Law
October 12, 2007, 07:28 PM
I just called. :cool:

ChestyP
October 12, 2007, 07:36 PM
Two more calls, Friday afternoon PDT.

Elm Creek Smith
October 12, 2007, 08:06 PM
Called and opposed from Indian Territo..., er, Oklahoma.

ECS

joe4702
October 12, 2007, 10:29 PM
Man, I just hope these biased lefty staffers report the real numbers to the guv. and don't skew the data!
PS Big thank you to all those who called/are calling from out of state!

mgregg85
October 12, 2007, 11:12 PM
Called once with home phone, then again with home phone and *67. Calling with my cell phone now

paper warrior
October 12, 2007, 11:16 PM
Called and opposed, I heard about them trying to ban led bullets too. How the hell are poeple going to hunt .22 on the cheap? I know, led poisoning, ect...

Zundfolge
October 12, 2007, 11:42 PM
Ok, so does he sign or veto things on the weekend?

I kinda figured he'd do the deed by the end of business today if he was going to veto it.

:(

glockman19
October 13, 2007, 02:49 AM
Ok, so does he sign or veto things on the weekend?

He has until midnight sunday 10/14/07

Pax Jordana
October 13, 2007, 07:18 AM
called and opposed.

I don't hear any bias, frankly. Heck, I hardly hear reading.

At my last job we used the Mapex VRU system to call in our hours. You wanna hear a lady with a nice phone voice... lol

Ieyasu
October 13, 2007, 10:46 AM
The governor has about 300 bills remaining on his desk. He didn't veto it Friday. If he doesn't veto AB1471 by the above mentioned deadline, it'll become law. *SIGH*

Control
October 13, 2007, 03:59 PM
Have previous governors waited until the weekend to veto?

If this bill becomes law I'll be devastated. Has California gone completely insane?

xd45gaper
October 13, 2007, 04:19 PM
Has California gone completely insane?

where have you been in a cave somewhere? california is the last place you would ever catch my a$$ oh and IL and MA to lol

GunTech
October 13, 2007, 04:26 PM
Has California gone completely insane?

They've outlawed the use of Mommy and Dady in text books. What doe that tell you?

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=58130

I say we give California back to Mexico. Any right thinking Californians can move to a sane state.

yesit'sloaded
October 13, 2007, 05:10 PM
32 hours left

Maxinquaye
October 13, 2007, 05:35 PM
I'm sorry to see this happening, but I have to disagree that if it happens in CA it will spread to the rest of the country. I *used* to believe it when I lived in San Diego. Since moving to North Carolina, I have realized it for the distorted view that it is. The vast majority of the BS that is foisted upon the citizens of that state (2A related or otherwise) would get legislators thrown out of office around here, and we have a democrat legislature.

9mmdude
October 13, 2007, 05:50 PM
He just signed it into law. This makes me want to VOMIT!

yesit'sloaded
October 13, 2007, 06:06 PM
There went that. I hope the party throws him out.

glockman19
October 13, 2007, 06:06 PM
WOW I can't believe it:banghead::eek:. I'm now on a mission to buy as many guns as I can before it becomes effective.;)

I'll also be seriously looking into property in Oregon, Nevada, Arizona and other more rational states.

I'm completely disappointed. :cuss: I feel completely betrayed.:(

There is now NO HOPE in the Stae of California.

Lastly, He should be kicked out of the Republican Party as a, turncoat and be branded a Democrat.

Davo
October 13, 2007, 06:11 PM
I need to get a 1911, and a polymer 9 ASAP....Ill put the M1A, and the saigas on hold for now.
I wonder what this will do to handgun prices in the immediate future...

yesit'sloaded
October 13, 2007, 06:12 PM
I'm sure this is going to be followed up with a bill that makes tampering with microstamped guns illegal

Big45
October 13, 2007, 06:33 PM
http://bradycampaign.org/media/release.php?release=933

Gov. Schwarzenegger Signs Landmark Legislation to Solve Gun Crimes


For Immediate Release:
10-13-2007

Contact Communications:
(202) 898-0792


Sacramento, CA – Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger signed into law cutting-edge legislation that will provide police with an important new tool in solving gun crimes and apprehending armed criminals and gang members. AB 1471 passed both the Assembly last spring and the State Senate last month.

“We applaud Gov. Schwarzenegger for taking a bold step to solve gun murders in California. This ground-breaking law gives police officers a powerful tool to apprehend armed criminals and gang members before they strike again,” said Brady Campaign President Paul Helmke. “The Governor has set a new national standard for the rest of the country to follow.”

The Crime Gun Identification Act will require that all new models of semi-automatic handguns sold in the State of California starting in 2010 be equipped with technology to allow police to match bullet casings found at a crime scene to the handgun that fired the bullets. This technology, known as "microstamping," consists of engraving microscopic characters representing the make, model and serial number of a handgun onto its firing pin and other internal surfaces. These characters transfer onto the bullet shell casing when the handgun is fired. In instances of drive-by shootings, where the only evidence at the crime scene may be a casing from a fired bullet, law enforcement will be able to quickly obtain a critical lead.

Assemblyman Mike Feuer (D-42), a former Los Angeles City Councilmember who recognizes that law enforcement needs more tools to combat gang violence, was the author of the bill. It was supported by the California Police Chiefs Association, the Orange County Chiefs’ and Sheriff’s Association, the Peace Officers Research Association of California (PORAC), and the Los Angeles Police Protective League, in addition to 65 police chiefs and sheriffs throughout the state.

Kay Holmen, the President of the California Brady Campaign Chapters, said, "Nearly half of all crimes go unsolved in our state. Microstamping technology will provide our police officers with solid leads for finding armed criminals before they do more harm. This new law will allow our police to trace the crime gun---without the gun.”



Oh Lord:(

Oana
October 13, 2007, 06:44 PM
I'm in California. See if that man gets my vote. :banghead: :banghead:

yesit'sloaded
October 13, 2007, 06:47 PM
Brass catcher sales are about to skyrocket in California.

The Deer Hunter
October 13, 2007, 07:14 PM
This is ridiculous

Isn't there some law against harrasing legislature?

Shouldn't there be something against lunatic governors? Removing the words "mommy and daddy" should be enough to tell people this guy isn't in his right mind. California has really gone to the dogs, sorry to say. I think that if anyone working for/with the governator or whoever is marketing this bs to the people had any real knowledge about guns they would know that a simple fingernail file can remove any kind of marking from a gun. I'm sure gangstas' have been doing it since the inception serial numbers on guns-so whats stopping them from doing it to firing pins?

BamBam-31
October 13, 2007, 07:15 PM
Holy crap. :what: :banghead: :cuss:

The Deer Hunter
October 13, 2007, 07:23 PM
Look at the bright side, at least this maniac can't ever be the President.

Davo
October 13, 2007, 07:26 PM
He's aiming for State Senator next...when was the last time California elected a Repub Senator? He may have just secured his position when Boxer leaves...

Joshua C
October 13, 2007, 07:28 PM
Get you a recall movement started.

Can'thavenuthingood
October 13, 2007, 07:29 PM
All he did was sign the bill the state Senate and Assembly sent him. We beat them last year.
Now its law forever.

Nothing going to change for the better in this state until the gerrymandered districts are reset to something looking normal.

Now for the tweaking.

They also got the lead out of the Condors.

Vick

kermit315
October 13, 2007, 07:36 PM
so, here is my question regarding all of this. what will this do to reloaders, because it marks not only the primer, but also the shell casing. I guess reloading will become illegal.

Ieyasu
October 13, 2007, 07:36 PM
I voted for McClintock. I never trusted Arnold.

It doesn't much matter. This kind of crap would have passed with the next governor anyways. Politically this state has sucked and it will only get worse.

Ieyasu
October 13, 2007, 07:37 PM
Get you a recall movement started.
That's funny.

TexasRifleman
October 13, 2007, 07:54 PM
I guess reloading will become illegal.

I suspect you are right.

Now will come on smaller follow on laws to solidify this one;

No tampering (barrel changes, firing pin changes etc) by anyone but the manufacturer
No reloading
No selling of reloading supplies
No possession of reloading supplies.

I gotta say this is one of the worst things I've seen in my lifetime.

For all the trouble some of us have gotten into here on THR for the PRK, **********, ************ etc remarks I truly feel sorry for those of you living out there.

It seemed humorous at the time, but you truly are not living in the United States anymore.

The_Antibubba
October 13, 2007, 08:06 PM
If Arnold thinks he has a chance at national office, well, he just ended it. :cuss:

Is there a legal challenge to this?

Chrome
October 13, 2007, 08:12 PM
Any of you guys making last minute runs to gun shops on the way home?

Where can I find full text of the bill/law?

Later,
Chrome...

TexasRifleman
October 13, 2007, 08:13 PM
Any of you guys making last minute runs to gun shops on the way home?

It doesn't kick in til 2010, so everyone will be stocking up.

I wonder if the California Legislature knows that the sale of handguns in California is about to go up 10x.

Mazeman
October 13, 2007, 08:14 PM
Is there a legal challenge to this?

The Supremes found in the Constitution a right to privacy, that protects a woman's non-existent right to abortion.

Maybe they'll find that microstamping violates the privacy of our 2nd Amendment rights.

/not holding my breath...

Ed Ames
October 13, 2007, 08:37 PM
It's a slippery slope fallacy to say that reloading attacks will be launched as follow-ons to this law.

Reloading actually *broadens* the investigative net instead of narrowing it, and so helps with the stated purpose of this law.

Let's say you, Sid Citizen, have a microstamping gun. Joe Crazy doesn't. You go to a range to fire off a few rounds. The range polices your brass, reloads them, and sells them to Joe Crazy who leaves them scattered around a crime scene. Your stamps, his crime scene. Bad for you, right? But it's good for the cops.

You become a suspect. They take your gun, run ballistic tests which (hopefully for you) prove that your gun didn't fire the terminal bullets... you are less of a suspect now. So they ask, "How did your cartridges get into his gun?" (they are cops, don't expect perfect shooting jargon from them) You say, "I don't know... I just go to Ed's Shooting Sports once a month to punch holes in paper." "Ed's, huh?" The cops go to Eds, finds out that yes in fact they do reload range brass (or sell it), and there are sales records. If Ed's is in Los Angeles County those records include driver's license numbers even. They have a trail, they can narrow the list of suspects down to people who bought ammo from Ed's. They can cross-reference that with the other suspects they've been looking at. Has the boyfriend ever bought anything from Ed's? You know how it goes.

That's why I don't think you'll see this used as an attack on reloading.

Revolvers, though.... It would be quite Californian to say that revolvers no longer pass the DOJ safety test because they don't leave evidence at crime scenes. That's a more realistic outcome of this law because it doesn't necessarily require additional legislation, just a regulatory redefinition of "safe".

Reloading has already been attacked by other bills such as the ammunition component tax bill that would charge a punitive tax for each component (bullet, primer, shell, etc) used in reloading. Expect new attacks of that sort. They won't be tied to the microstamping measure though because reloading actually helps microstamping somewhat... if you do reload you'll end up making many imprints and if you use some of your reloaded ammo there is more likely to be a recognizable imprint.

Anyway.. don't be too hard on Arnold. These bills have been coming up every year. Arnold vetoed some last year. The problem isn't that he didn't keep vetoing them... it's that the voters didn't do their part. If the legislators had been replaced Arnold wouldn't have been faced with the choice of vetoing the same bill over and over again or going along with the expressed will of the majority. The fault lies not only with California gun owners but with ex-Californians who chose to leave the state instead of fighting and becoming the positive face of gun ownership. When all the good gun owners left, those that remained were either bad gun owners (criminals and nuts) or hiding gun owners. I'm condemning myself with that by the way -- I left California a year ago and part of my motivation for leaving was the promise of fewer anti-gun laws. The first thing I did was to start erecting barriers to ever going back as well... buying products (guns included) that aren't legal in CA, so that even though I still own a house in CA it's unlikely I'll move back there. That's a loss to California's gun owners and in the long run it will be a loss to everyone. Each time we lose a part of the country it is much harder to ever get it back.

Arnold would be FAR better for California and the country than Boxer of Feinstein. At least Arnold vetoed most of the anti-gun bills last time around (perhaps before it was obvious to him that if he kept vetoing they'd just keep coming to his desk). He's not rabidly anti, he's just not as rabidly pro as you'd like. For California that's a major step in the right direction.

Can'thavenuthingood
October 13, 2007, 08:57 PM
Full text
http://leginfo.ca.gov/pub/07-08/bill/asm/ab_1451-1500/ab_1471_bill_20070917_enrolled.html

Vick

Can'thavenuthingood
October 13, 2007, 09:04 PM
Brady was a big push on this, its coming to a city near you.

Its all part of making gun ownership a hassle and discouraging it to the point of making you an outcast.

May they all suffer from anal leakage.

Vick

Thefabulousfink
October 13, 2007, 09:46 PM
Tis a sad, sad, day for California indeed; but don't expect the end of the world or Blue Helmets grabbing shotguns from old ladies just yet. I seem to recall a few years ago this whole "microstamping" craze was attempted with "Ballistic Fingerprinting". A few East Coast states passed laws requiring new guns have their "ballistic fingerprint" registered with the state PD. The talking heads called it "A powerful new tool for the Police" and the Brady folk predicted a new era of gun crime prevention to sweep the nation.

But there was no sweep. Other states simply stood back and watched to see what benefits(if any) would arise; and several years later the Law Enforcement agencies stated that the system was a huge mess, a waste of time, and had yet to lead to a single conviction that couldn't be found through standard police work.

I guess it is CA's turn to jump on the hand grenade for the rest of us. Like with BFP I don't expect many states to jump on the microstamping bandwagon until it has been shown to be more than just a waste of time and money. When that fails to happen in a few years it will be up to the Californians to take control of their legislature and get this law repealed.

But while your suffering under it, maybe push for a lawsuit that demands that all state agencies comply with this law. That will make the CA DOJ really feel the pinch when they have to outfit all their officers with new "Safe" sidearms.;)

esheato
October 13, 2007, 09:47 PM
I'm disgusted but not surprised. I sent a nastygram to Arnold too.

Cheers to another 4 years in CA (just got orders to return there!).

Ed

Ieyasu
October 13, 2007, 09:48 PM
Of course California LEO's are exempt from this.

A poster on another thread had the good idea of getting gun manufacturers to sell the same kind of guns to California LEO's.

Thefabulousfink
October 13, 2007, 10:02 PM
It wouldn't take to much skill to convince the people that cops should be force to follow the same guidelines. "We don't want our fine men and women in uniform carrying UNSAFE firearms." It shouldn't be too hard to pass a measure requiring LE agencies to only use sidearms that have earned a "Safe" rating from CA DOJ. When the opposition says that it'll be too expensive you can say, "Money should not stand in the way of our officers safety." A skilled debater could probably even get them to admit that the "Safety" rating system is worthless.

The fact is that the CA DOJ and Bradyites have made this bed, let's make them sleep in it too.

kermit315
October 13, 2007, 10:19 PM
^^I like that idea. wonder what it would take to make it work

paper warrior
October 13, 2007, 10:59 PM
EDIT = Nevermind, that'd be illegal...

TexasRifleman
October 13, 2007, 11:05 PM
match bullet casings found at a crime scene to the handgun that fired the bullets.

Uhhh. Hellooooo. McFly!!

Ever hear of a REVOLVER?

Zundfolge
October 13, 2007, 11:12 PM
So is it possible to have someone kicked out of a political party?

Arnold needs to be honest with California, America and his Kennedy wife and just leave the GOP and become the Democrat he is.

TexasRifleman
October 13, 2007, 11:22 PM
So is it possible to have someone kicked out of a political party?

Oh just watch. Things go they way they are headed Guiliani will be head of GOP in a couple years and Ahnold will look like Reagan reincarnated.

orionengnr
October 13, 2007, 11:30 PM
Lastly, He should be kicked out of the Republican Party as a turncoat and be branded a Socialist.

There, fixed it for you. No charge. :)

I seem to recall a few years ago this whole "microstamping" craze was attempted with "Ballistic Fingerprinting". A few East Coast states passed laws requiring new guns have their "ballistic fingerprint" registered with the state PD. The talking heads called it "A powerful new tool for the Police" and the Brady folk predicted a new era of gun crime prevention to sweep the nation.

Maryland recently issued a little-noted report. Dollars spent on BFP=$12 million. Crimes solved: zero. I don't think that has slowed them down any, though.

Guitargod1985
October 14, 2007, 12:08 AM
This is beyond shameful. I'd like to cede California to <insert Commie country here> and get it over with. But then we'd have all the stupid anti-gun Californians infesting other states with their garbage. I really hope this either gets overturned, or better yet, they see that it solves ZERO crime.

Ieyasu
October 14, 2007, 01:33 AM
I really hope this either gets overturned, or better yet, they see that it solves ZERO crime.
Man, some of you folks don't have a clue as to how looney Mexifornia is.

Overturned??? By whom/what? The Ninth short-curcuit has held that the 2A is not an individual right. Individuals do not have standing.

The legislators could care less (or is that couldn't care less?) whether a single crime is ever solved by this measure.

Some of you foreigners (err non-Mexifornia residents) have absolutely no idea how nuts and anti-gun mike fuer is (the clown that proposed AB1741). The state legislature is infested with pestilence-ridden socialists/statists/collectivists. There is no hope for this state. My only surprise is that we didn't sink faster when Red Davis (err, Gray) was governor.

That's okay, AB1741 is a warm-up. Wait 'til Villaraigosa (if you don't know who he is... google!) becomes governor. hahahaha....

The_Antibubba
October 14, 2007, 03:18 AM
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=309136

Diamondback6
October 14, 2007, 03:40 AM
AntiBubba, crossposted that thread to AmBack.

Ieyasu
October 14, 2007, 09:24 AM
Excellent post The Antibubba!!!

Hopefully what you posted will become the start of a national effort. It'd be nice if somebody starts a web-site to coordinate and keep us updated on the effort.

(Time to reserve a clever URL!)

force_quit
October 14, 2007, 11:48 PM
Wow. What a colossally stupid law. Perhaps every firearms manufacture can follow Barrett's lead and NOT sell or service guns in CA (sorry those that live there). The hope would be that it would for a repeal of the law

TexasRifleman
October 14, 2007, 11:56 PM
ps every firearms manufacture can follow Barrett's lead and NOT sell or service guns in CA

Oh man this has taken on Biblical meaning...

Barrett did not stop selling firearms in CA. Barrett stopped taking DIRECT orders for rifles or parts from CA but he did not stop his distributors from doing so.

His gesture was well meant certainly but it was symbolic.

All that happened was California LEAs had to pay full price for parts and rifles rather than the LE discount for direct purchases.

NO ONE would turn their back on the CA market, its too huge.

bluto
October 15, 2007, 01:37 AM
Noooooooooooooooo! I can't believe it! This tears it!

Ahnold won't get my vote or support from here on out. You can't slide a piece of paper between him and Feinstein anymore. This is what comes from being married to a Kennedy relative. From moderate Republican to Kennedy Socialist.

Thanks to all of you from out of state who wrote to the governor.

Wastemore
October 15, 2007, 01:49 AM
Biazarre,
The wife and I have been discussing moving out of this hole for a couple of years now and we always said we'd wait awhile. Friday, I had an offer to buy my business out of the blue(basically) and I told the person to contact me next Friday and we'll discuss it.
We're out of here...and, not because of this particular up and coming gem of a law, it's because of the laws that will follow/support this one.

#$%^ this place, see ya, Cali.

force_quit
October 15, 2007, 03:52 PM
All that happened was California LEAs had to pay full price for parts and rifles rather than the LE discount for direct purchases.


That would be a good start. If all of the manufactures did it. That way the end users don't get hurt either.

On the topic, did the Gov not see that the states that have spent MILLIONS on the fired case databases have solved ZERO crimes with it? What a waste of taxpayer money.

Can'thavenuthingood
October 15, 2007, 08:07 PM
How far out of California do you figure to move? Is there another country you have in mind?
Microstamping is about to go national.

After a short time has elapsed they will discover the 'Revolver' loophole and work to close it like the gun show loophole.

There won't be any sweep to collect guns like we think of in historical terms, they will merely be legislated into oblivion.

Vick

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.voanews.com/english/archive/2007-06/2007-06-07-voa67.cfm?CFID=218844797&CFTOKEN=33498587

Bullet Cartridges May Help Identify Criminals
By June Soh
Washington, D.C.
07 June 2007

The U.S. Justice Department says homicides in the United States are most often committed with guns, especially handguns. And the number of shooting deaths has increased steadily over years. But a new technology may help prevent gun violence. It allows investigators to trace the source of the weapon, and perhaps find the shooter, even before they recover the weapon.


Microstamping technology
A new bullet casing contains critical information that law enforcement officials can use to identify the weapon that fired the bullet. They are aided by a new ballistics technology called "microstamping."

Todd Lizotte is the inventor. He explained how microstamping works at a recent demonstration in Washington D.C. "The technology is pretty straightforward. We understand that under certain pressures the metal will emboss itself even if it is a very fine feature."

Lizotte says if the make, model and serial number of a pistol are etched on the pistol's interior surfaces, those characters are imprinted on each cartridge case when the handgun is fired. So this microstamping technology will allow investigators to link cartridge casings that they find at crime scenes to the weapon used in the crime.


Microstamping demonstration
Representative Xavier Becerra of California arranged the demonstration. He and Senator Ted Kennedy of Massachusetts are working to introduce a federal microstamping bill in the U.S. Congress that would require new semiautomatic handguns to be equipped with microstamping technology. A similar bill has been introduced in the California General Assembly.

"There are ways we can reduce the gun violence in America in a smart way, in an effective way and a way that doesn't infringe on anyone's personal [gun] ownership rights," Becerra says.

The microstamping technology is hailed by gun control advocates. Josh Horwitz is the executive director of the Coalition to Stop Gun Violence. He says microstamping will enhance an existing gun tracing system.

"We already have a trace system,” says Horwitz. “We know how to trace guns. Congress authorized and built a trace center. Microstamping would just allow you to access the trace center, get the data -- which is who purchased the firearm -- without the firearm."

Research by the Coalition to Stop Gun Violence and the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence shows that of the nearly 2400 homicides in California in 2004, more than 60 percent were committed with handguns. The groups estimate microstamping would cost manufacturers only between 50 cents and one dollar per firearm. They say the new technology is a crime-solving promise in the future and will help make America a safer place to live.

MikeyLikesIt
October 15, 2007, 08:13 PM
Schwarzenegger: Microstamp Gun Bullets

Sunday, October 14, 2007 5:54 PM

Article Font Size

SACRAMENTO -- Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger on Saturday signed 97 bills and vetoed another 58, creating new laws on everything from the sale of kangaroo skin to protecting endangered condors while halting lawmakers efforts on dozens of other fronts, including giving college aid to illegal immigrants and requiring warning labels on cloned food.

Arguably his most controversial decision, Schwarzenegger signed a bill requiring semiautomatic handguns made and sold in the state to have technology to microstamp each bullet fired from the gun.

Supporters said the micro-stamping requirement, the first in the nation, will help police track down criminals.

Opponents, including the National Rifle Association, argued the technology is unreliable and could be used to implicate innocent people if criminals leave behind stamped cartridges from other guns at crime scenes.

In his signing message, Schwarzenegger said he understands the technology is not perfect, but hopes it would give police a new tool in solving violent crimes.

SIGguns
October 15, 2007, 09:17 PM
Well, now this is great. Good old Ted Kennedy never lets his fellow socialists down. Xavier Becerra can also take a hike.

People need to make it clear to their representatives as soon as the time is right. Congress needs to drop this as soon as possible. The ink on this law isn't even dry yet in California and these victim disarmers are already trying to screw the whole country over.

Scorpiusdeus
October 15, 2007, 11:55 PM
Yes Yes Yes, all of you move out of California. Leave us behind to fight alone. Why don't you all move to France since you seem half French anyway.

Anyone with big brass ones should move here and help us take over, not encourage the surrender monkeys to jump ship.

Fight until the death, No surrender!

No wonder this state is the way it is, the so called freedom fighters don't have any fight left in em.

Whatever state some of you yellow bellies move to, make sure you run from there with your tails between your legs when they come for you there. Pretty soon you won't have anywhere left to go.

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