What Shall We Do And How Shall We Proceed?


PDA






ConstitutionCowboy
September 9, 2007, 07:51 PM
Many of the problems we face in our struggle to wrest our Right to Keep and Bear Arms free of the unconstitutional infringements it suffers are a direct result of the following:

Congress abdicated much of its usurped powers vis-a-vis the governance of arms in this country - and unconstitutionally, I must add - beyond the mere unconstitutional infringements upon the Right. Congress granted power to the BATFE(and other agencies) to come up with rules and what they call "regulations" that those in Congress should have and are supposed to have the legislative power over. All of these rules and "regulations" never get signed into law by the President. The only "authority" the President has in this mess is if Congress decides to disallow a certain "regulation" proposed by this agency, he gets to approve the disallowing and the "regulation" is quashed, or veto the disallowing and the "regulation" becomes law.

Congress has ducked the responsibility of the unpopular gun control issues and therefore ducked the scrutiny and fury of the people. Now, instead of facing the wrath of the people when a stupid or debilitating rule or "regulation" gets put into practice, Congress gets to say "See how much we are looking out for you?" when they shoot down said nasty act of one of these bureaucracies. They appear as the good guys when they are really the bad guys for setting these agencies and bureaucracies free do do the dirty work those in Congress want to get done but don't want to take the heat for.

Read the Constitution. "ALL legislative powers herein granted shall be vested in a Congress of the United States, which shall consist of a Senate and House of Representatives." (Emphasis mine.) I don't see any mention of agencies or bureaucracies in that passage from Article I, nor do I see power granted to Congress to delegate any of that power.

Senators and Representatives get elected by the people. Bureaucrats are not elected, therefore, their tenure in office is beyond the suffrage of the people. Only those who are elected by the people are vested with legislative power in the Constitution. Any rule or "regulation" enacted by any agency or bureaucracy is unconstitutional, and until Congress takes back its powers, and/or the Court acts, we will suffer the consequences of this debacle.

This is a matter of law. Unconstitutional law. Now that the facts of the matter are established, what shall we do about this debacle?

Woody

How many times must people get bit in the (insert appropriate anatomical region) before they figure out that infringing upon rights sets the stage for the detrimental acts those rights are there to deter? B.E.Wood

If you enjoyed reading about "What Shall We Do And How Shall We Proceed?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
mb419
September 9, 2007, 10:13 PM
What can we do? The "political" system doesn't work. Does anything ever get better? Sure, the AWB sunsetted but now they want to pass something even more draconian. The sheep are just happy to have a job and sit back and watch football.

Is there even going to be an election in 2008? Will Bush declare some kind of "emergency" to keep power?

I have given up on any solutions coming through the system. If the Dems win and start up with more gun control, leading to who knows what, I just hope that the people are READY. If the GOP win, who knows what they'll do. Everyone talks a good game to get elected.

Can't wait to see what happens. I'm sure it'll be fun.

Keep your powder dry.

Robert Hairless
September 10, 2007, 12:01 AM
The political system in the United States of America works remarkably well, which means that no group of people who share a controversial interest can look for a rescuer if they scare people into opposing them and alienate or weaken their friends. It's not a movie and the U.S. Cavalry won't come to the rescue. You can't scare or insult people strongly enough to make them support you. Those people some gun owners call "sheep," for example, are referred to as "voters" by politically smarter people who want to win elections. Those voters can read, by the way, and they can even read messages in which gun owners call them "sheep." My bet is that they don't like it when gun owners say that they're animals.

mb419
September 10, 2007, 02:40 AM
I guess that I've never considered people who believe in the Constitution and the Bill of Rights to be part of a "group of people who share a controversial interest".

Being "politically smarter" is not a virtue I would ever strive to achieve. I believe in our founding documents and will not waver from them just to be politically expedient.

chieftain
September 10, 2007, 07:04 AM
Being "politically smarter" is not a virtue I would ever strive to achieve. I believe in our founding documents and will not waver from them just to be politically expedient.

Don't confuse political expediency with being smart politically. It was some very smart political folks that wrote the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. Unfortunately for us political expediency had them include slavery.

Unlike some folks who think they are above politics, everyone makes mistakes, often for the finest of reasons.

As long as two people exist there will be politics. In every family there is politics. It is a fact of life. The only way to get away from it is to be a true hermit, or die. No other way.

Now to the point at hand. We have to change minds, not piss people off, by calling them names. It isn't about impressing someone with our mightier than thou attitude and knowledge about one of the many bill of rights. It is about changing peoples minds.

Good arguments, that leave seeds of reason. That is what will flourish and grow over time in those people that do think and reason. Those are the folks that Churchill was talking about when he made his statement about the young being liberal and the older and wiser being conservative. Those are the people we need to reach.

There are more out there than you think.

Let me put it another way. If I call you a stupid SOB, do you think I can win you to my side of an argument that you don't already believe in? Not unless your a real pansy. Right?

So is it more important to you to insult folks who disagree with you, or win them over to your way of thinking. That is not called political expediency, that is called being politically smart.

And as an ole' Marine I learned a long time ago. I can't carry enough ammo to kill them all, so I better convince'em one at a time, to come and fight with me rather than against me.

Use your head instead of your guns. it is a much more effective weapon. But then you have learned that in every fighting/weapons/survival/military/LEO class you ever took. RIGHT!

Your head will keep you alive longer, and get you what you want much more often then your guns.

I guess I am just being politically expedient.

Go figure.

Fred

ConstitutionCowboy
September 10, 2007, 09:24 PM
Don't confuse political expediency with being smart politically. It was some very smart political folks that wrote the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. Unfortunately for us political expediency had them include slavery.

Unlike some folks who think they are above politics, everyone makes mistakes, often for the finest of reasons.

I think you are selling our Founding Fathers short. You must also recognize that our Founding Fathers SPECIFICALLY added verbiage into the Constitution to allow Congress the power to prohibit the migration and importation of such persons in 1808 and thereafter. And, we cannot forget the Fifth Article of the Constitution allowing for the amendment of the Constitution, which allowed for the abolition of slavery with the Thirteenth Amendment. Our Founding Fathers did not allow for Congress to delegate its powers, however. That is what this thread is about, and asks for solutions in how to fix the deviations from the Constitution by Congress.

It's about changing minds to a certain degree, but mostly about chastising the errant Congress and waking up the Supreme Court.

As for the people, education is the key. Expose what is going on, expose those in government on the wrong side of the people and only out for their own job security. These agencies and bureaucracies were touted as a way to lighten the load on Congress by placing the rule making authority "in the hands of the professionals" in the particular fields, with the thinking that all the congressmen wouldn't have to figure out all there is to know about whatever field of endeavor was needing regulation. In reality, it's Congress passing the buck. In reality, it's also Congress dabbling in fields Congress has no business in in the first place; the "F" part in BATFE the most egregious

Another problem with these agencies and bureaucracies is the law enforcement powers Congress has granted to some of them. This, too, is unconstitutional. The only law enforcement power the Union has is to use the militia as proscribed in Article I, Section 8, Clause 15.

Reigning in these federal agencies and bureaucracies ought to be Job One for us. If Congress were to be stripped of these teeth they voted for themselves, I doubt they'd feel so free to take these bites out of our freedoms. There are not supposed to be any walls of separation between those in Congress and We the People and this is what these agencies and bureaucracies amount to. The dirty work Congress wants gets done, they avoid the scrutiny, and come election day they seem like the good guys.

Recently we had one of these agencies trying to pass rules governing how ammo could be stored, how you'd have to evacuate a building in a thunder storm if there was ammo or powder stored in the building, among other draconian measures. This could have become law so easily it would have made your head spin if it hadn't have been for some alert people on our side. There would have been next to no, or absolutely no debate in Congress. It wouldn't have crossed the President's desk.

It's time to strip these agencies of this power. It's time most of these agencies went away. It's time Congress had something to do besides bloviate, investigate, denigrate, denunciate, extravagate on our nickle, and ensconce themselves in their positions of power with campaign finance reforms, and secured voting blocks paid for with the taxes upon those who choose to actually work for a living. Maybe then the government would shrink back toward the union of convenience it is supposed to be. But, it won't happen unless we make it happen. We've got to spread the word. It can start with a simple conversation in a café, or a passing word on the golf course. Just "Git'er done!"

Woody

Be careful who you choose to stand behind and support. If you are unwilling to take care of yourself, you must take whatever care that comes along. I've yet to see a flock of sheep, no matter how well cared for and tended, that doesn't get fleeced from time to time and eventually end up on the dinner table. Not many sheep die a natural death. B.E. Wood

esq_stu
September 10, 2007, 10:17 PM
Congress granted power to the BATFE(and other agencies) to come up with rules and what they call "regulations" that those in Congress should have and are supposed to have the legislative power over. All of these rules and "regulations" never get signed into law by the President.Congress has given executive agencies the limited power to legislate through the Administrative Procedures Act of 1946. I'm not saying whether it's constitutional or not. But for each set of rules, Congress expressly authorizes a named agency (ATF, EPA, OSHA, FDA, etc.) to adopt rules that have the force of law. This process has survived numerous constitutional challenges.

Moreover, many have argued that the commerce clause to the constitution does not give the feds the power to regulate so many things. (Note - Justice Samuel Alito held, as a lower court judge, that the Commerce clause does not permit ATF to prevent people from owning machine guns - that the regulation was unconstitutional, so there are judges out there that see it this way). But the court is still too centrist to change much anything.

If anyone wants to prevent or object to ATF rules (or OSHA rules, DOT rules, EPA rules), there's a process for it, and in some areas, the regulated community has a lot of power - for example, EPA passes rules with great difficulty without at least some industry buy-in. Gun owners routinely seem to get steam-rolled more often than industry because they do not have the same KIND of influence as industry and labor. The NRA does a lot, but industry is bigger - 3 million members of NRA that do little more than pay dues vs tens of millions of workers and union members and unions and trade groups that lobby to protect their jobs. Still, rules get adopted.

It's frustrating, but gun owners always let the NRA do it all, which they can't. I think it has helped that there's a JPFO, GOA, and many state organizations that have gotten active, etc. They get a lot of credit, I think, for the number of states having shall issue laws today.

my 2 cents

ConstitutionCowboy
September 10, 2007, 11:09 PM
This process has survived numerous constitutional challenges. Obviously not quite enough challenges, though. All it will take is the right challenge with a conservative Court. That said, I believe we cannot wait upon the Court.

Woody

This crap will continue until the Court stops allowing itself to be misused as a legislative branch of government, or as an alternative to amending the Constitution. B.E. Wood

mb419
September 11, 2007, 02:43 PM
Are we getting closer to the hard war?

Smurfslayer
September 11, 2007, 03:10 PM
breaking this down into it's least common denominators we have:

Congress establishes an exec. branch agency and by law grants it authority to enact and enforce rules which have the force of law.

Said rules must be subservient to the Constitution, and laws passed by Congress.

As the previous poster points out, this setup has survived numerous constitutional challenges. But then let's not forget some of our courts' more embarassing moments. Dredd Scott comes to mind.

Ideally, this setup wouldn't be burdensome but for one thing which Congress won't mention - Standing. The courts have held that you can't challenge these "rules" unless you have standing AND the courts grant them the "benefit of assumed Constitutionality" as they do with Congress. However, all of these pale in comparison to the root cause of this scheme and it's effects. Government is too big, too powerful and too intrusive at all levels.

The reason Congress abdicates day to day management of these agencies is that in order for them to manage these agencies, Congress would actually have to work! :eek: Think about this the next time you hear someone lobbying for health care, social security, or any other program for that matter.

The only way to kill a dandelion is to tear it from the ground root and all. Similarly, the only way to stop the abuse of administrative process at any level is to outright eliminate these governmental fiefdoms; de-authorize them legislatively.

Robert Hairless
September 12, 2007, 07:32 PM
What does "Are we getting closer to the hard war" mean?

mb419
September 14, 2007, 02:38 AM
The soft war is fought through the political system. The hard war involves more direct action.

Guitargod1985
September 14, 2007, 03:54 AM
And who do you think would join you in this war? Many people today are so caught up in their day to day lives that they honestly believe "this doesn't affect me." Some people are too stupid to know the difference between protection and government over-reaching. Newer generations are growing increasingly apathetic because of indoctrination and lack of education. Many older people have vested interests in the status quo. My father, for example, is a tax and bankruptcy attorney. I tried to convince him to vote for Ron Paul and he won't. Why? I suspect that it is because Ron Paul wishes to abolish the IRS, and my father specializes in making money off of people who get into trouble with the IRS.

My point is that there are still some individuals of principle left in this nation, but the vast majority of society has become corrupt or indifferent. I would give my life for my country if I truly believed that in doing so I could preserve the liberty intended by our Founding Fathers. But what good would come of me fighting as an individual when so many are against our cause?

ConstitutionCowboy
September 14, 2007, 11:06 AM
My point is that there are still some individuals of principle left in this nation, but the vast majority of society has become corrupt or indifferent. I would give my life for my country if I truly believed that in doing so I could preserve the liberty intended by our Founding Fathers. But what good would come of me fighting as an individual when so many are against our cause?

As an individual, yes, you are limited in the "action" realm. As a voice, you are unlimited. Also know this: Regardless of how many are indifferent or invested in the status quo, you are not alone.

A single snowflake does not constitute a snowman. A snowman starts as a handful of flakes, solidified into a ball, and rolled around on the fresh snow until it gathers enough snowflakes and becomes recognizable as the beginnings of a snowman. Snowmen are completed in this fashion. Then your neighbors see your snowman and build their own.

Build enough snowmen until snowmen rule.

All you need do is stop with "The Spirit Of What's The Use" and start building a snowman. Don't worry about throwing snowballs just yet, but don't neglect to build yourself a goodly stockpile of them.

Woody

"The Second Amendment is absolute. Learn it, live it, love it and be armed in the defense of freedom, our rights, and our sovereignty. If we refuse infringement to our Right to Keep and Bear Arms, as protected by the Second Amendment, we will never be burdened by tyranny, dictatorship, or subjugation - other than to bury those who attempt it. B.E.Wood

chieftain
September 14, 2007, 03:22 PM
I repeatedly hear people calling others corrupt or disinterested. Then as the fellow above, they ask what they can do by themselves.

The answer is simple. Run for office yourself. Fight the fight without blood. Just time.

Most folks, who ask what can I do alone, are asking for an excuse to do nothing.

Alone or with others, we fight the fight or we don't. Not with bullets. But with an even more powerful weapon. The vote.

Stop whining, stop drinking beer, stop watching football and do something in your immediate area. If you don't really want to change anything, you can find a reason/excuse to do nothing.

Or you can get off your duff, and do something. Join the party of your choice. Get with the candidate of your choice, don't like the candidates, run your self. Start small and work your way up.

Most folks will come up with some excuse why they can't. I always find it interesting that they believe their reasons/excuses are good and okay, everyone else is corrupt and not interested.

Some things never change. As I tell every one, at least vote.

Remember, if you don't vote, you don't count.

IF every pro gun guy voted, and saw that at least one other pro gun voting spouse or friend got to the polls, we would not be having this discussion.

Like "doing something", many folks frankly lie about voting. They complain about "everyone" not voting, then don't vote themselves. There is always a reason/excuse.

I love these poor me, I will sacrifice my life threads. Very few in fact will sacrifice the time.

Go figure.

Fred

2RCO
September 14, 2007, 03:33 PM
Chieftain +1 on all your comments.

MB419 - Even the attempt of a Hard War would totally end our 2A rights. If the pro gun citizenry tried an armed revolt it would get smacked down and along with it you would give the Antis the weapons they need to go through the constitutional process to revoke our rights.

We need to learn to play the Politics game, the NRA has done a fairly OK job but we should be doing more.

To see our rights fully restored we need to change the entire culture in this nation and get thugs off the streets and lock up other serious threats to society. We need to start enforcing the non firearms related laws with the same zeal they enforce firearms laws with.

Guitargod1985
September 14, 2007, 03:47 PM
I love these poor me, I will sacrifice my life threads. Very few in fact will sacrifice the time.

I was not asking for your sympathy. And by the way, I personally take the TIME to go to my conressman's local office to deliver letters, which I took the TIME to thoughtfully write out. I take the TIME to go to the polls and I take the TIME to participate in grassroots efforts to further our cause. Furthermore, I find it appaling that you would question my devotion to my country. Were it not for a medical condition beyond my control, I would proudly be serving my country right now. You know nothing about me. I'm not discounting your loyalty or patriotism, please grant me the same courtesy.

The answer is simple. Run for office yourself.
And I suppose that everyone here is independently wealthy and can leave their jobs at the drop of a hat to run for office. "Well, I want to do something, so I guess my bills don't really need to be paid." Yeah, that's realistic.

2RCO
September 14, 2007, 03:50 PM
Guitargod--You probably do. But many whine and moan and effectively do nothing but aggravate fence riders with their diatribe.

mb419
September 15, 2007, 02:20 PM
Guitargod - You're right on target. I also take the time to write letters to reps. and to the paper, take the time to vote, take the time to attend rallies (and not just for gun rights), and many of the other things that citizens can do. And I, too, am not asking for sympathy from the sheep.

Who would I expect to join up? Not a heck of alot of people. Like you said, most people wouldn't even care until something hits them right in the face. There seems to be 2 kinds of people in the world; sheep and wolves, and I am definitely not in the flock.

I guess if I have to face whatever will be coming in the future by myself, I will. Hopefully there are others out there though.

mb419
September 15, 2007, 02:39 PM
By the way, if my use of the term "sheep" offends, so be it. If one word can change the way "voters" feel, then why would we want someone like that on our side anyway? Censoring speech and thought because of the risk of "offending" someone is simply political correctness, which, according to some of the others here, is just being "politically smart".

chieftain
September 15, 2007, 08:25 PM
I was not offering sympathy. And by the way, I personally take the TIME to go to my conressman's local office to deliver letters, which I took the TIME to thoughtfully write out. I take the TIME to go to the polls and I take the TIME to participate in grassroots efforts to further our cause. Furthermore, I find it appaling that you would question my devotion to my country. Were it not for a medical condition beyond my control, I would proudly be serving my country right now. You know nothing about me. I'm not discounting your loyalty or patriotism, please grant me the same courtesy.

Neither me or any one I see is offering you sympathy. Did anyone here question your devotion to country? If you read that into something that isn't there. Maybe a long look in the mirror is in order.

I think you protest to much!


And I suppose that everyone here is independently wealthy and can leave their jobs at the drop of a hat to run for office. "Well, I want to do something, so I guess my bills don't really need to be paid." Yeah, that's realistic.

Think about this, until he Served as President Clinton didn't have a pot to piss in. He found a way.

I say again, there is always a reason or an excuse. Just as there is always a way. Some illegal, some legal. You decide who you are.

On the other hand it is your God given right to continue as a victim of your own making.

Go figure.


Guitargod - You're right on target. I also take the time to write letters to reps. and to the paper, take the time to vote, take the time to attend rallies (and not just for gun rights), and many of the other things that citizens can do. And I, too, am not asking for sympathy from the sheep.

What sheep? Just who do you want YOUR sympathy from then. If you are doing some of the things that need doing. You can always do more. At least more than complain about what others are not doing.


Who would I expect to join up? Not a heck of a lot of people. Like you said, most people wouldn't even care until something hits them right in the face. There seems to be 2 kinds of people in the world; sheep and wolves, and I am definitely not in the flock.

Well someone cares. Maybe the folks on the other side of the issue care more! Actually there are three types of folks. But that is another argument for another time.

If you convert people around you, friends, family and working associates, there will be more folks that agree with you. Of course getting them to agree with you will take time, a lot of time, and would preclude you insulting them before you begin.

Win them over with reason, logic, and friendly discussions. Not brow beating. That does not produce sheep, that produces enemies.


I guess if I have to face whatever will be coming in the future by myself, I will. Hopefully there are others out there though.

I guess at all those rallies and things you say you do, no one else was there? Maybe you are isolating yourself?

Go figure.


By the way, if my use of the term "sheep" offends, so be it. If one word can change the way "voters" feel, then why would we want someone like that on our side anyway? Censoring speech and thought because of the risk of "offending" someone is simply political correctness, which, according to some of the others here, is just being "politically smart".

Depends on what your reason for calling them sheep is. If it is to establish you are smarter or “better” than they are, you are right you. You do risk offending them, me, and most folks who might know you. But as you state, you don’t care.

If you are calling them sheep because they disagree with you, well just why ARE you calling them sheep?

I can confirm, by letting the folks around you know that you consider them sheep, I am sure they will be more than willing to help you and vote for the issues you think important when the time comes. I wonder what they think of you?

This may come as a shock to you, but when fighting and voting for MY rights, I want as many folks on my side as I can get. IT IS CALLED WINNING.

I work very hard at not losing. Unlike some folks. But then that requires doing something positive, instead of sitting at a keyboard and being negative.

Go figure.

Docgmt
September 15, 2007, 08:39 PM
Many people today are so caught up in their day to day lives that they honestly believe "this doesn't affect me." Some people are too stupid to know the difference between protection and government over-reaching. Newer generations are growing increasingly apathetic because of indoctrination and lack of education. Many older people have vested interests in the status quo.

So it would seam that the republic is doomed. When Franklin was asked what type of government the Congress had given us, he replyed a republic if you can keep it. Have we?

Docgmt
September 15, 2007, 09:41 PM
The answer is simple. Run for office yourself. Fight the fight without blood. Just time

The answer is not that simple. I worked on numerous campaigns and spent 15 years as a lobbyist fighting the DOT over the right of Motorcyclist to choose to wear OR not a helmet, that right was not something written into the constitution. ( unpaid and it cost me thousands:banghead:) The fight over this has been going on since the feds mandated helmet usage in the 60’s. That was repealed on a 10th amendment bases in the 70’s and has seen numerous attempts’ to reinstate the fed mandate. Right now more states than not allow adults to make that decision for them selves, imagine that. The thing is that this battle has be going on with the bureaucracy for over 50 years and will never end because you and I pay them to pass laws and regulations and they have lots of people that work 40hr weeks. ( not really 40 they may work 32:) ) The more people that you can get elected that are pro 2A the better the chance is of holding them off. The more time you can spend in contact with your elected official on the issue the better chance you have of getting them to vote pro2A and not abandon their pro2A stance when the committee chairman offers to slips them some perk to vote for a gun ban.

As for running for office yes you can do that now the reality is that you have to start small unless you already have a few million to spend. Then you have to work you way up through the party getting the ok from all kinds of people that don’t have a clue as to who you are or what you stand for. The party has to invest large sums of money and its reputation on YOU. Then you have to wait in line until an opening comes along that they ( party bosses) think you will be able to fill. I had lunch a few times with Dennis Kucinich the once Mayor of Cleveland and now running for President ( formerly of Mars) and he had to wait for about 22 years before the party blessed his run for Congress. To get him elected the Unions in Northern Ohio spent 32 Million in independent money plus what the party spent and his own campaign funds. So its real easy to say run for office but that is not reality in today’s world.

If you do not have millions then join an organization and “pool” your voting power, GOA or NRA or which ever one fits you beliefs. That sets one or two people from say GOA out to talk to your elected official who can represent your interests ( I find that very ironic ) and who carry the weight of thousands of voters with them and that makes a big difference. Then you have to back them up with your own voice.

Help someone you trust in their run for office that gives you and access to a politician that no money can buy and that is very important when a bill is moving through the legislature. Forewarned by a friend can stop a bad bill in its tracks and those in office know how to sneak thing through in a hurry when the heat is on. This fight may never end and probably will not, all of us will have to be vigilant because those that want to take away our guns will never stop trying and I will never give up my gun.

chieftain
September 16, 2007, 03:33 AM
Docgmt.

Very good and accurate except where you show your credentials.

As for running for office yes you can do that now the reality is that you have to start small unless you already have a few million to spend. Then you have to work you way up through the party getting the ok from all kinds of people that don’t have a clue as to who you are or what you stand for. The party has to invest large sums of money and its reputation on YOU. Then you have to wait in line until an opening comes along that they ( party bosses) think you will be able to fill. I had lunch a few times with Dennis Kucinich the once Mayor of Cleveland and now running for President ( formerly of Mars) and he had to wait for about 22 years before the party blessed his run for Congress. To get him elected the Unions in Northern Ohio spent 32 Million in independent money plus what the party spent and his own campaign funds. So its real easy to say run for office but that is not reality in today’s world.

You either are or were a Democrat. I know of no Republican machines in the United States. Democrats still have machines. In my home state of Florida we broke the Democrat Machine in the 70's.

No one needs permission to run there anymore. In fact I know of no place any republican needs permission or approval of anyone except the voters and the law.

You add another reason I do not care for Unions.

You are right in Machines states, or at least the ones I am aware of, Calif, Mich, Mass, Ohio, Penn, DC(I know it's not a state) etc.... they are machine states. That means to run as a Democrat you need the Dimocrat blessing and the blessing of special interest groups that control the Dimocrat party.

Why do you thing Bloomburg in New York Ran as a Republican? Even with all his money, he couldn't buy the Dimocrats to bless him for the primary (and now that he is at the end of his run as Mayor, he stepped down from the Republican party, thank god. We don't need more RINO'S). The Republican will let any man, rich or poor, run for any office qualified. I know folks that went from welfare to office. Republicans that is.

Learn who the "dragon" lady's are in your district. They run the party. They can get you to every one you need to get to, if they like you. If they don't, you won't get to anyone or anything. You don't need a dime to do any of this. And you can be working a job while doing it. Just get the right job, for you.

It ain't easy, better lose your ego, and if you like thinking you know better than the people you want to vote for you, you have already lost. You need their vote, they don't need you.

Want to start training for free? Join toastmasters, and start practicing your public speaking. Do you know the issues the voters are interested in? Most folks don't.

Why? Because it doesn't matter what non voters like or don't like. It only matters what the people who voter think. Learn what the voters want in a candidate, and which issues are near and dear to them. Learn what motivates your base and your opponents base. Why would anyone vote for him, why would anyone vote for you.

I have attended the Republican Senatorial Campaign College about 30 years ago. Some things have changed the techniques and such, but the fundamentals like in football and baseball never do.

I have advised hundreds of candidates and campaigns over the years(haven't done it in professionally in years). Just remember, any skeletons in your closet, in your wifes, children's, possibly even your parents or business partners, will sooner or later be found out and bite your. Most anything can be handled. But trying to hide it will nail you.

If you are planning to run, there is a lot of leg/ground work that can be done for little or no money years before you run. Read a lot of Newspapers. For local office of course read the ALL of the local papers, County/regional papers and State Papers. For national office add certain papers that are mandatory. The New York Times, The Washington Post, The Wall Street Journal, La Times, Time Magazine, NewsWeek. Others may come and go in fashion. But this is just the beginning. Family members can help. Make sure they understand what you need and why. Also be careful of folks mostly friends trying to undermine you and tell you there is no chance running.

There are techniques for raising money, there are techniques for minimal amounts of money. Remember within reason money is just a short cut.

I will end the beginnings of a lesson here. But again most are not willing.

Go figure.

Fred

chieftain
September 16, 2007, 03:44 AM
Just a side story.

IF any of you remember the Grade "B" movie "USED CARS"

Part of the story line was the hero wanted to go in to politics. He needed a lot of money to pay off the party chairman. I was the Republican party chairman in that City at that time. While I was Chairman, the Democrats for state, and often congressional seats, did not field candidates or they were tokens. They didn't have a chance.

No one paid me to run for office in any of the years I was chairman.

I have run up to Senatorial level races. Oh and one more thing. McCain and I do know each other. It ain't pretty. You see, I am an old conservative and McCain is, well .......... Oh I have been often asked if I knew Barry Goldwater. Yes. I didn't know him well, but yes I did.

I still ain't rich. And still must work for a living, although full disability may be in my immediate future. I didn't do it for the money or fame. I got somethings done I felt needed to be done, got some folks in that did good, got some in that turned out not so good. didn't get somethings done I would have liked too.

Go figure.

Fred

Art Eatman
September 16, 2007, 10:11 AM
This forum is for specific plans of action, not for general discussion of how bad the world is...

Art

If you enjoyed reading about "What Shall We Do And How Shall We Proceed?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!