WARNING on SWFA


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Wildalaska
January 9, 2003, 08:06 PM
In speaking to the Leupold marketing people today about their new MAP pricing, it was mentioned that a web retailer named SWFA sells Leupold scopes at very low prices.

The Leopold people told me that SWFA is not an authorized Leupold retailer, that they do not buy from Leupold or authorized Leupold distributors and that for all Leupold knows, they are not even selling"new" Leupold scopes...

For what its worth...

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Redlg155
January 9, 2003, 08:16 PM
MAP pricing?

Is that something like Aimpoint did that required ALL authorized retailers to charge a minimum price for their products to drive up the market price of their product and to prevent some dealers from charging a better price than their competitors?

If so..that's just real peachy.

I've dealt with SWFA. Good folks. Did you get a chance to call SWFA and ask them what the deal is?

Good SHooting
RED

HankL
January 9, 2003, 08:26 PM
I've bought several Leupolds from SWFA and the scopes were in the original sealed packaging with warranty card etc. No problems with SWFA.

I hope that Leupold is not fixing to start price fixing.

vertigo7
January 9, 2003, 08:27 PM
Do you mean these guys? SWFA (http://www.swfa.com)

blades67
January 9, 2003, 08:29 PM
Buy Nikon, that'll fix Leupold's price.

schild
January 9, 2003, 08:43 PM
SWFA has been running ads in GUNLIST forever.

cisco
January 9, 2003, 09:06 PM
Try brunoshooters.com for Leupold and other name brand scopes. I am not part of their staff, but have ordered from them. They beat SWFA and most anyone else on Leupold prices. I have had no problem with them. Located in Arizona.

Wildalaska
January 9, 2003, 10:24 PM
Guys I just know what I have been told, Leupold is in fact going to a MAP or minimum resale system.

I have mixed feelings about it. We generally have sold scopes at around MAP anyway, and of course, here in Alaska, everybody else is about the same. Cabelas is sometimes a feww bucks cheaper, but whenyou take into account shipping, it usually behooves the educated consumer to buy from a gun shop that usually will mount the scope for free too (like we do).

On the other hand I hate being told what do do...

Then again, I equally hate internet retailers that are nothing more than "boiler rooms" who stock nothing, misrep goods and undercut the dealer who buys new stock, keeps it there, services it etc.

I've bought several Leupolds from SWFA and the scopes were in the original sealed packaging with warranty card etc

Shrink wrappers are easy to get....

Splat Shot
January 9, 2003, 10:40 PM
I have been to the SWFA shop. All the folks there were very helpful, all scopes with the exception of some trade-ins or samples are NIB wrapped in plastic, original box with warranty cards. If they aren't getting them from Leupold I don't know where else they could come from and still make a profit. Sounds a bit more like a Leupold problem rather than a SWFA problem.

444
January 9, 2003, 10:47 PM
I have purchased at least a half dozen Leupold scopes from SWFA along with a few other brands. I have spoken with SWFA on the phone any number of times. Chris from SWFA has been an active participant on Shooters.com for years and I seem to remember him being on TFL but I could be mistaken. In fact, I was going to order an Aimpoint ML2 from them tonight but ended up going with my local dealer because the price was close and I like to support my local guys. My dealing with SWFA has always been great. They know what they are talking about and are very easy to deal with.

Mike Irwin
January 10, 2003, 12:33 AM
Glad that I have just about all the Leupold scopes I need, then...

ajacobs
January 10, 2003, 08:54 AM
I have dealt with swfa many times the product, service and value has always been first rate.

bogie
January 10, 2003, 12:31 PM
Lester Bruno usually has a good selection, but then so does SWFA...

FWIW, the prez of Leupold shoots benchrest.

Phil in Seattle
January 10, 2003, 08:56 PM
"Then again, I equally hate internet retailers that are nothing more than "boiler rooms" who stock nothing, misrep goods and undercut the dealer who buys new stock, keeps it there, services it etc.

From their website:

"We stock everything that we advertise and have a 99.5% fill rate on all orders placed. If you are looking for something that we do not advertise, we can get it for you. "

The few orders I've placed with them have always been shipped from and tracked via UPS from their Texas address and one problem item I returned was shipped back to their address.

SWFA has been around for a lot of years and has an excellant reputation.

eap
January 11, 2003, 06:05 PM
map pricing is never good. you will pay more for stuff period.

larryw
January 11, 2003, 07:01 PM
Just look for the "call for price" ads. MAP means they can't advertise for less, doesn't mean they can't sell for less. Many do.

Maestro
January 12, 2003, 11:32 PM
Thanks for that little tip larryw.

RifleScopes.com
January 14, 2003, 08:31 PM
First I want to thank the many loyal customers that brought this almost comical thread to our attention.;)

I don't know WildAlaska but I assume he sells Leupold scopes. I also assume that he can not compete with our retail pricing and has decided to slander us publicly with false accusations. Be very careful Mr. WildAlaska, you are treading on thin ice.:D

Of course we sell brand new Leupold scopes and buy from authorized distributors. What is an unauthorized distributor? Where would they get Leupold scopes?:banghead:

Leupold has always frowned :mad: on discounters and they do everything they can to keep the prices on their scopes where they want them. Price fixing has been illegal for a long time and they are well aware that what they attempt to do could get them in a law suit.

This is where you got way out of line wildalaska::cuss:

---------
Then again, I equally hate internet retailers that are nothing more than "boiler rooms" who stock nothing, misrep goods and undercut the dealer who buys new stock, keeps it there, services it etc.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I've bought several Leupolds from SWFA and the scopes were in the original sealed packaging with warranty card etc
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Shrink wrappers are easy to get....
---------

Have you ever been to our place of business? We stock over 1,000 different scopes and many of them we stock several thousands of. We have unrivaled customer service and have never misrepresented anything.

:confused: Are you ignorant enough to think that we can find an endless supply of every Leupold made (used with no marks at all), then find a supply of perfect boxes, warranty cards, instructions, cloths, etc. Then get a shrink wrapper like you mention and pass them as new.

Everything is new and ships the same day as ordered. Your comments and suggestions are ridiculous. Judging from the numerous e-mails we have received and the many supporters that posted directly in your thread I don't think you have fooled anyone, if anything you just sent more happy customers our way that have not heard of us until your thread.

So have a nice day. Cheer up and find a better way to get some business.:D

Yours Truly,
Chris Farris
SWFA, Inc.
www.RifleScopes.com

Wildalaska
January 14, 2003, 09:30 PM
Hi Chris, you just better take it up with Leupold then.

I just know what they tell me. Get your facts straight before you start throwing legal threats around.

And rather then get mad at the messenger, why dont you write to them and tell them this:

"Leupold has always frowned on discounters and they do everything they can to keep the prices on their scopes where they want them. Price fixing has been illegal for a long time and they are well aware that what they attempt to do could get them in a law suit."

Gonna sue them are you?

And further, by the way, I dont see any advertisement for Leupold scopes on my part in this thread, do you?

Gila Jorge
January 14, 2003, 09:38 PM
I prefer Bear Basin and Natchez for my Leupold scopes. Sounds like malicious bad mouthing to me on Leupold's part. Slanderous might be more accurate. If SWFA suffers as a result of being believed...then treble damages will apply against Leupold.

Soap
January 14, 2003, 10:21 PM
I recently purchased a scope from S.W.F.A. It was a Leupold Tactical 3-9x40mm Mil-Dot. The scope was in perfect condition. In addition, ordering was easy and it was shipped in a very timely manner. Being the dirty capitalist oppressor that I am, I will continue to spend my dollar with whomever offers the best prices and delivery. So far my dollar is on S.W.F.A.

Ledbetter
January 15, 2003, 02:41 PM
Never heard a bad word about SWFA. Considering the source:rolleyes:, nothing in this thread has changed my mind. You may look forward to my continued business also.

ZOG
January 15, 2003, 05:48 PM
"WARNING on SWFA "

One retailer "warning" us about one of his competitors!

This is outragious behavior and I feel the moderators and owners of this board shoould review the policies that allow someone like WildAlaska to isssue such slanderous remarks about some one who has earned and outstanding reputation in the shooting community.

1911
January 15, 2003, 05:58 PM
Swfa is one of the highest price places on the planet to buy optics.Just do a internet search and you will see.

Or go here and compare prices

www.hotbuysbinoculars.com/

Wildalaska
January 15, 2003, 06:28 PM
This is outragious behavior and I feel the moderators and owners of this board shoould review the policies that allow someone like WildAlaska to isssue such slanderous remarks about some one who has earned and outstanding reputation in the shooting community.

Tell me whats slanderous..did you even read my original post?

And whats ZOG stand for...hmmm???

RifleScopes.com
January 15, 2003, 06:36 PM
I don't know if you know much about HOTBUYS. But these people do.

http://www.resellerratings.com/seller1938-p1.html

Please take the time to read the 27 comments from their customers.

This place is one of the most notorious scam operations out there. Contact any one of the companies who's product they sell and ask them about them. Also research what "grey market" means.

Chris
SWFA, Inc.

Maestro
January 15, 2003, 06:49 PM
SWFA is a sponsor and supporter of my home site www.rimfirecentral.com.. In the 4 years I have been there I have never seen one negative post concerning SWFA.Really,all I ever read are kudos to Chris and everyone else there.A first class group.I went to hotbuys.I didn't see any scopes for firearms there.Did I miss something?

1911
January 15, 2003, 07:01 PM
I have ordered several things from those folks and always got what I ordered and paid for!

Soap
January 15, 2003, 07:11 PM
1911- I just checked the Hotbuys site and it turns out they can't beat SWFA's Leupold prices...because they don't even carry Leupold.

Art Eatman
January 15, 2003, 07:25 PM
Now, now, 1911, that sounds real close to bein' an exaggeration. Real close. I'll bet I could find two or five hundred stores that have higher prices.

:), Art

1911
January 15, 2003, 07:54 PM
You might be right art!

I do feel that there is a huge differance in the Leica prices.Almost $200 differance per optic.And the ones I just ordered the other day are leica usa!I save almost $500 bucks on two binos and a range finder.

taking a closer look I cked with natchez,a very good source for optics.

Here is the price list they gave me.Its almost 10-15% cheaper than swfa!

45242 $349
45245 $384
49209 $376
42910 $376
45248 $373
45251 $386
46412 $397
45806$436
45158 $449
45170 $449
48501 $449

I am sure If I spent some more time looking around I could find you some more comparisons.I just hope more consumers will do thier homework.

Bottom Gun
January 16, 2003, 12:57 PM
I bought a scope from SWFA and was pleased with it. Delivery was timely, price was good, and they even sent me a free Zeiss baseball cap.

cratz2
January 16, 2003, 03:00 PM
I have bought and traded from/with both SWFA and BearBasin.com several times and have never had any issue from either of them. Regardless of your name loyalties, Weaver Grand Slam scopes are every bit as bright, clear and reliable as Leupold VariX III scopes at a price point comparable to the VariX IIs. Leupold is worried about this. Representatives from both companies as well as one local gunshop have confirmed this. Leupold can say or write anything about resellers that they chose to and it is nothing more than a poor reflection of a company that is obviously worried about competition from Weaver and they are trying to protect their high volume, big dollar resellers. Plain and simple.

The Leupold warranty is 'If you have a Leupold scope with something wrong with it, we'll fix it.' Great warranty and great service. How could they decide not to warranty a few particular scopes? Unless they are known to be stolen and surely you aren't trying to insinuate that SWFA and BearBasin seem to have a very large inventory of stolen scopes from many manufacturers, are you WildAlaska? That would be even more libelous than your original post.

Texas Mike
January 16, 2003, 10:09 PM
I know Chris, have been to his shop prior to its relocation.
Been to the new shop. The crew there is top notch, inventory and selection is phenominal.

Some folks do like to tear down the sucessful rather than attempt the climb to their level...............must be democrats............


Hey Chris,
When we gonna test more replacements for "that" scope?

RifleScopes.com
January 17, 2003, 07:50 PM
Mike,

We experienced a little down time on "the scope" due to some unforseen circumstances. We are back on track now. Should have two ready to destroy before Spring. I have your e-mail address and will most definately get you one to torture soon.

Chris Farris
SWFA, Inc.

Dave Markowitz
January 18, 2003, 10:03 PM
I bought a Weaver scope for my 10/22 last year from SWFA, off their website. I thought the price was fair, the product was as advertised, and it came in a timely fashion. I would not hesitate to buy another scope from them.

Gewehr98
January 20, 2003, 11:44 PM
The only thing that's kept me from doing so is the fact that they ran out of the Tasco SS 10x series. :(

Rich Lucibella
January 21, 2003, 12:28 AM
Hmmmm-
I've purchased much from SWFA. Thousands, I'd venture. (And all this long before I even knew the name "Chris Farris"; much before they became a household name in our internet circles). For my money, they've always been to optics what Georgia Arms is to ammo: Quality Products and Service. Excellent prices.

"Non-Stocking"? I guess they could be....though I don't see how since we've received some of our orders the day after placing, regular USPS! I've also purchased "SHOT Show demo's" of Leica binos and other items.... never been disappointed.

In short, these guys aren't cutting corners. They're the Real Deal, IMHO.
Rich

Scott Evans
January 21, 2003, 11:41 AM
Wildalaska,
I understand your frustration but the thread title here boards on that of an attack. SWFA has ample support from their customers as in providing both quality products and good customer service. Also, they are not the only vender to sell well below retail.

Once a Manufacture sells to a distributor that manufacture has NO influence at all in controlling the “discounting” type venders. The large Distributors purchase in bulk with offers too good for most makers to turn down. They in turn sell to near anybody. For the large distributor it is just a numbers game. Likewise; they do not report who they sell to back to the manufacture. Their thinking here is that if they do then the manufacture may end run around them. Distributors simply do not hand out this information. In short if a Manufacture sells through distributors it is impossible for that manufacture to know who is and is not buying from those “authorized” distributors.

A manufacture cannot set a venders price. However; if a manufacture identifies a dealer who is selling too low they can cease to sell to that particular vender. They do not have to sell to anyone that they do not want to. This is the only way a manufacture can influence the retail price range.

By introducing distributors into the mix the manufacture gives up any control as to who or how or for what their product will sell for.

Again; I understand your frustration but your complaint is not with SWFA but rather the manufacture. It is the manufactures responsibility to protect their dealers NOT the end users.

Gary H
January 21, 2003, 12:15 PM
I've had good service with SWFA.

Purchased a scope for my wife's rifle, but before receiving the scope, she decided that she wanted a different rifle. I ended up with a new rifle for me and one for her, but the scope was all wrong. I needed a lighter scope in matt-silver. I called SWFA and they told me to send the original scope back and they would send me what I needed. They credited my account and all was done in short order. Purchased other scopes from them and have been satisfied.

I bet that SWFA scopes are covered by Leopold warranty. I know that mine have had cards. Also, Leopold would not want someone to buy one of their scopes and not be able to obtain warranty service. It would really hurt their sales. As an example, many folks buy grey-market Canon gear. Canon USA will honor the warranty rather than get a bad rep.

762x51
January 21, 2003, 12:17 PM
Chris:

Is that a new model of the Tasco SS in that attached picture? :eek:

RifleScopes.com
January 21, 2003, 01:44 PM
They do kinda resemble the SS scopes a little..... don't they?;)

But check out those knobs. Looks like the ones off the B&L tactical.

The scopes pictured have been under development for several years. They will be the first of their kind when brought to market. The ruggedness of these scopes borderlines ridiculous and is off the scale when compared to others. Many new tests have been developed to test these scopes.

:confused: As for what they are, you will have to wait. But I assure you it will be worth it.

Chris Farris
SWFA, Inc.

larryw
January 21, 2003, 02:05 PM
Thanks for the "warning": I'm not a SWFA customer, but based on the loyalty they've earned from their customers, my next scope(s) will be purchased from them.

Unintended consequences are a bear, eh?

johnnymenudo
January 22, 2003, 12:41 AM
My only problem with SWFA is that they wouldn't accept a return on a scope that arrived broken. Not broken as in UPS guy crushed it, but broken elevation adjustment. My mistake for not being in town when the scope arrived, so I missed out on the window period to return it to them. I just wanted a replacement, they said "no, send it back to the manufacturer". Problem was, manufacturer went out of business in the time between the scope being ordered and problem being discovered. I understand their (SWFA) not wanting to take a loss, but here it is almost a year later and I am still scopeless. My scope was first sent to Tasco because I was unaware of their impending bankruptcy, then transferred to ABO, botched further by ABO, returned to ABO, then lost. I am out of a scope at this point and have been offered a mere $100 by ABO in compensation for a $300 scope.

I would not buy a Tasco, I would not buy from SWFA, and I would not use ABO for repair work again.

JM

1911
January 22, 2003, 10:22 AM
I have tried to warn people about tasco for years and it still falls on deaf ears.

RifleScopes.com
January 22, 2003, 12:45 PM
Come on johnnymenudo. Tell the whole story.

E-mail me your real name and zip code so I can look into this and post our side of the story. There is always two sides ya know.

Are you the guy that bought a CU840x56M and tried to return it over a year later (broken)?

If nothing else I am glad that this topic got you to become a member and post your first post as it did me also.

Chris Farris
chris@swfa.com
RifleScopes.com

johnnymenudo
January 22, 2003, 01:49 PM
Chris,

I didn't contact you for a return until the scope was in my possession for a month. You enforced your written 10 day return policy and I can't fault you for that. Where I am disappointed is that I would have thought that you would at least make an exchange for me for another Tasco scope. But as you said to me on the phone, you were dealing with major amounts of Tasco inventory and you were taking a major hit when they went belly up.

I would be happy to contact you by e-mail when I am at home as I cannot use the work e-mail to do this.

JM

RifleScopes.com
January 22, 2003, 04:01 PM
Do that. I will see if we can persuade ABO to take care of you.

Chris
SWFA

Zander
January 26, 2003, 08:12 PM
I just know what they [Leupold] tell me. -- WildAlaskaPrecisely...

kalibear45
January 28, 2003, 12:00 AM
I've bought from them before and have had no problems with the products and they have good customer service.

762x51
January 28, 2003, 12:35 AM
Thanks for the tease and info on those new scopes Chris. :) Will be looking forward to them.

RifleScopes.com
March 8, 2003, 08:18 PM
No worries 762. Thanks for the business.

Intune
March 27, 2003, 12:45 PM
Sourgrapesneverturntowine


I purchased a B&L Elite 4200 and a 3200 from SWFA and price, service, delivery and product were exemplary. Implying that they are somehow being underhanded or duplicitous by stating " Shrink wrappers are easy to get...." is probably more a reflection on how the poster conducts his business, NOT SWFA.
:scrutiny:

Mike990
April 20, 2003, 11:25 PM
A couple years ago I ordered a Leupold scope from SWFA. A hard to find model. I wanted the Leupold 3-9x compact EFR model. You dont waltz down to your local gunshop and buy that one. Most gun shops will only stock the very most popular models. I researched the internet dealers and SWFA always came out on top of the heap. Got the scope in a couple days. Great service. I do not feel they are that much cheaper than other internet retailers, but I trust them. I also like the fact they have the scopes in hand and can ship even exotic models right away. So I just ordered Leupolds new mini spotting scope from them. I have not even seen anyone else advertise it yet. Should be here in a couple days. Would not hesitate to do business with them again. Great firm from what I can see.

Peetmoss
April 24, 2003, 07:59 PM
I have purchased from SWFA and would do it again. There prices are fair. The products they sell are as advertised, and there shipping is fast.

motorep
April 24, 2003, 10:03 PM
I was recently looking for a specific Leupold scope, none of the local stores could get one, the mailorder catalog people couldn't get one. I saw the SWFA ad in American Rifleman, I think, called them, they had the scope in stock, got it to me quickly, without hassle, and at a lower price than advertised by those who didn't have the scope. I'll use them again, and reccomend them to my friends. And, yes, it was a new scope....

Ledbetter
April 25, 2003, 01:27 PM
Talk about a thread backfiring.

Mods, isn't this horse dead yet? The one-retailer-warning-us about-another-retailer horse I mean?

Byron Quick
April 28, 2003, 05:05 AM
Verily, my brothers, ye shall reap that which ye sow.

Mike990
April 29, 2003, 01:29 PM
Got the new Leupold 10x-20x mini-spotting scope right on time that I had ordered from SWFA. Only people anywhere to even have it in stock, and I got it in two days. This is my second order with them and I have had excellent service. You can bet I will be shopping there again.

Ian Sean
May 5, 2003, 01:03 AM
I'm not currently looking for scopes or optics but SWFA is going in the favorites file for when I do, Thanks everyone!

blue86buick
May 19, 2003, 02:14 AM
I can't afford one yet, but when I replace my POS wally world $7 4x15 on my 597 with a 3-9x40, I'll make sure to consider SWFA! :)

Steve Smith
May 19, 2003, 03:40 PM
Yes. The horse is dead.

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