Okay...I'm sure that this question could get me laughed at, and some could claim that it is a waste of time to post it, but I'm gonna do it anyway darn it!
This is especially applicable to hunters or hikers in the Western U.S.
Let's say you were out in the woods, armed for Elk or similar sized game. Suddenly, about 75-100 yards away, you see a large, dark shape walking upright. It doesn't look like a bear. In fact, if you look twice, you would almost swear it looks like, well, Big Foot. You haven't been drinking(or smoking for that matter)
What would you do? Would you shoot it, knowing that the person that could deliver a Big Foot corpse would be famous for life? Or not shoot because it could be one member of an extremely endangered species? Or not shoot because it could be a guy in a monkey suit(who would be getting what he deserves, but only if you just winged him!)? Or just close your eyes and walk away, and forget you ever saw it?
Or worse, shoot me for posting such a silly question?
I am just asking because I am watching a Big Foot show on Discovery, and I have occasionally hunted here in Big Foot country in Washington. Having gone weeks at a time not seeing an Elk, which we KNOW are there somewhere, I don't find the idea of a real Big Foot all that laughable. Not sure what I would do if I saw something unusual...but I don't think I would shoot.
Bah...guess I need some sleep.
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January 10, 2003, 01:16 AM
I don’t shoot “large, dark shapes” without proper target identification. If I ID'd this thing as Bigfoot, I'd probably watch it go by and enjoy my private moment with nature. The "just me and creation" moments are what makes the boonies worth hanging out in, IMHO.
January 10, 2003, 02:50 AM
I'm pretty sure you know the answer. You don't shoot unidentified upright-walking creatures. If you KNEW if was Bigfoot, I still wouldn't take the shot.
January 10, 2003, 04:35 AM
I won't tell my story but, let's just say, I didn't shoot!
You never do that!
January 10, 2003, 08:33 AM
This intrigues me. It's been on the news in the last week that some guy's family (now that he's dead) has admitted that he was the guy in the Patterson film, dressed in a realistic suit. He also used fake feet to leave many tracks. Some will assume that he was responsible for many sightings of Bigfoot, and that the animal therefore doesn't exist.
BUT: Bigfoot was legendary long before this guy got up to his tricks, and the FBI lab has supposedly examined hair samples believed to be from a Bigfoot, and they didn't match any known animal. He can't have been responsible for all the tracks, and books I've read note that professional biologists said that some of the tracks were so detailed anatomically that they would be almost impossible for anyone other than a skilled zoologist to manufacture.
Bigfoot sightings come from several regions of the country and from Canada, where Indians have known about the beast for generations. One was captured along a railroad in about 1880, but later escaped. Several reliable men have told of being attacked by them, and some cases are known of human abductions, where the victim later escaped and told very plausible tales of the event.
Personally, I think they may well be real. Would I shoot one? Depends on the circumstances. In self defense? Sure! Fear for your life should be accepted in court if it came to that...
January 10, 2003, 09:35 AM
Around here, we'd probably just chalk it up to being one of our friends from south of the border in search of a better life. :rolleyes:
January 10, 2003, 11:04 AM
Last time I saw a big foot I took the shot. Must have been faulty ammo or I would be famous today!:neener:
January 10, 2003, 11:40 AM
Seriously. Bigfoot documentary's have always intriqued me throughout the years and this is the same question that I have contemplated being that I'm in the woods alot during the hunting seasons.
I would not shoot in fear of shooting an imposter or being imprisioned for shooting something that was not legal to shoot. I would certainly enjoy seeing a bigfoot and believe they exist out there, but unless I'm in danger I would not shoot.
January 10, 2003, 11:42 AM
I would really like to hear your story. Most of us are pretty open minded.
January 10, 2003, 11:50 AM
Don't shoot without positive target I.D.; otherwise another great nature moment.
Besides, we don't have a Big Foot season here.:)
January 10, 2003, 12:02 PM
Are you kidding?
(with your digital camera, that is)
January 10, 2003, 12:21 PM
January 10, 2003, 12:59 PM
By all means, shoot. It's my ex wife! Reload!! Call me for more ammo!!!
January 10, 2003, 02:14 PM
Most cultures in the world have a big hairy man lurking in the woods outside the village. In central Asia, it was "Alma". In England it was just the "Wild Man". In Scandinavia it was the "Orc" (like in Tolkien). In the Himalaya's it's the Yeti.
In this part of Alaska there are stories about the "Oorluck" (trying to spell that how it's pronounced). Which may tie in to the Russians who told bedtime stories about the mongols to scare their children - an "Orlock" is a Mongol warrior. I think the natives may have appropriated the word as they learned Russian and applied it to their older legend.
There are dozens (hundreds?) of other words in various languages throughout Europe and Asia which describe the same thing - a big hairy, smelly kind of a guy who lives in the woods beyond the village someplace.
I once had a friend who did an informal study of the word roots of as many of these as he could find in an attempt to prove a theory of his. He concluded that many of the European and Asian words had similar roots which meant that the concept went back very far in pre-history - at least to the Indo-Europeans, and perhaps further.
His theory was that the whole Bigfoot legend went back to the time when we shared Europe and Asia with the Neanderthal. That period isn't as long ago as you'd think, maybe 50,000 years ago. If there is widespread evidence of Neanderthal from 50,000 years ago, then it's not unreasonable to assume that isolated groups could have survived up until the bronze age, 10,000 - 15,000 years ago.
To cut to the chase... Since these legends are so widespread, the descriptions so similar, and the language roots so ancient, they probably point to a real creature. And the only know creature that fits the description and inhabited the earth during human memory was Neanderthal.
I don't think we have any Neanderthals out in the woods today, but I think the legend is based on memories of a time when he was out there.
January 10, 2003, 02:34 PM
OK, at the risk of ridicule I will tell a short version of it.
One winter 23 years ago, down in the sloughs of Lake Eufaula Oklahoma, the 3rd largest man made lake in the world, a buddy of mine and I were on one of our duck hunts. We limiting out early in the morning and decided to drive our duck boat back futher down the slough to scout for more places to hunt.
After following the zig zags in the water made by flooded timber, we came upon a small open area where a very small island had been made due to the lake level being low. We pulled the boat up to bank and he, I and my black lab at the time, got out of the boat and commenced to wonder around, mainly to warm up.
About five minutes later we both hear Kay, my Lab, barking and raising a mighty ruckus. We naturally take off in her direction to see what is going on. We spot her growling, barking and jumping around at something on the ground. Well, I figure she has found her a snake or something small that is laying there and causing her grief, As we get closer I can see there is not a dang thing there so, we slow down and just walk on up to her.
Well, this is where my friend and I stop dead in our tracks. We both notice the tracks that have been made in the soft ground which is what Kay was having a fit about. My friend and I know bear tracks and these were no bear tracks! I put the size eleven boot of my waders in one of the tracks and saw quickly that it only covered 3/4 of the length and was not nearly as wide as the print. I then made an attempt to take the same strides that were made in the soft soil, not a chance, not even close!
We noticed a pungent scent in the air and at the same time I had chills go up my back. I turned to friend and said, did you feel that? He replied, let's leave! Grabbbing Kay by the collar, the only way to get her to leave the tracks, we started back to boat. When we were getting in the boat I noticed a movement in the thick timber to my right across the slough. I turned my head and saw, as descibed earlier, a sillouette of an upright figure moving thru the dense woods, it was large! The first thing that hit me was that there was no form of a hat or cap, because of how cold it was. It stopped moving, stood still, then turned away from our direction and again started moving but, this time it was going away from us until I lost sight of it.
Needless to say, we got in the boat and left. That night, we decided to go back the next day and try to make plaster casts of the prints. As it turned out, the temperature dropped even more, while rain, sleet and ice moved in so, we didn't get to go back the next day and figured even if we did the tracks would be washed out or the lake level would be rising.
So, there you have it. Since then, I have heard only one other story somewhat similar to mine, stemming from around that same area.
January 10, 2003, 03:29 PM
:what: GREAT story! Tell it again. :D
January 10, 2003, 05:26 PM
Get closer, shoot it with a camera.
I've heard the idea that Neanderthal man was the basis of the bigfoot/yeti myth, as well as gigantipithicus.
Try as we might, we western-raised folks for get that in many cultures these creatures are real, though they don't quite live in the world as we understand it. Bigfoot, Wendigos and Banshees live in a part of our world we have a hard time explaining. Call it the place between dreaming and waking, the dreamtime, or whatever.
Ask an Eskimo why he is reluctant to meet a stanger on open ice, or why A Micmac might freeze in his tracks at the sight of a Raven.
"Monsters" allow us to explore, and explain things that are beyond the reach of our "science".
It would be sad to shoot one.
January 10, 2003, 05:31 PM
A "Wendigo" is a real thing? I mean that legends actually exist about them....
Just saw the movie. Wasn't that great.
January 10, 2003, 05:58 PM
My iron clad rule on killing is I kill nothing unless I'm gonna eat it or it is gonna eat me. Category 1 includes trapping for fur/hide for clothing but excludes all sentient beings (the cetacians and higher primates, I haven't made up my mind about elephants)and Category 2 includes all self defense and defense of property (varment destruction in defense of crops/livestock).
Therefore I would NOT fire on a Sasquatch unless it was clearly intending me harm despite the fact that a corpse would make me wealthy/famous.
January 10, 2003, 06:01 PM
To those who beleive, yes.
January 10, 2003, 06:58 PM
Marshall, thanks for the story.
Whether you believe or not, it's strange that at least one law exists on the books that it's illegal to shoot a Sasquatch. I can't recall which state, but I believe it's in the Pac NW.
Anywho, unless something was looking to do me harm, or I could feed it to my family, I wouldn't consider shooting. There were a few interesting threads on the Marlin Firearms forums on this very subject. I happened on the threads just before hunting season. For the first time in quite a while, I didn't feel quite comfortable in the woods in the dark. :uhoh:
On another note, if you did choose to shoot one, you'd better bring enough gun (and it better not have a front sight ;) ). I've also heard and read on other books and sites that these things don't necessarily travel alone. If you put a few rounds into one, you better hope their buddies don't show up to the party.
January 10, 2003, 07:12 PM
75 - 100 yards can be far in a wooded area for a proper ID. At 25 yards you'll be able to ID your target correctly. Then shoot it.
January 10, 2003, 07:18 PM
I wouldn't shoot it. Probably get nailed for endangered critter act or something from our local Kommisars. I believe in taking game for food (for myself or others), but not for the pure joy of killing.
January 10, 2003, 07:44 PM
I wouldn't shoot. Anyone who did would probably have to KEEP shooting at all the Big foot believers who'd want their skin....
January 10, 2003, 08:48 PM
Pends if I had pulled a tag for it that year or not...:neener:
January 10, 2003, 09:20 PM
I would only shoot defensively.
January 10, 2003, 09:56 PM
Aw heck, give him a beer, get his email address, and ask about his day job...
January 12, 2003, 05:16 PM
Good story and I believe you.
January 12, 2003, 07:14 PM
I wouldn't shoot it.
I'd already have the story and anyone who knows me would know I wasn't making it up.
Marshall thanks for the recounting of your experience. I have duck hunted around Eufala before. Your story gives me the heebeejeebees down my back.
January 12, 2003, 07:35 PM
Thanks you all. It was memorable! ~~shiver~~
January 12, 2003, 07:44 PM
I always carry a throw-away 35mm camera in my possibles bag. So I'd try to shoot him 24 times with the camera. :p
January 12, 2003, 08:42 PM
WoW! Much thanks for the story Marshall. And thanks for all the serious replies. Obviously, by posting this scenario, my position on the believe/not believe scale is made open. I just feel there are too many people who have seen things, and have nothing to gain by making a story like this up to not belive it.
Maybe, some day, we will know for sure.
January 12, 2003, 08:42 PM
I only shoot what I have a license for at the time and only once I have a positive id on what is there.
That being said I would do my best to get a close look because I always carry a side arm and my curiosity would make me want to at least find a foot print and see how far I could follow it.
With the popularity of full cover camo and some folks using ghillie suits taking a shot at a large furry creature could be a bad mistake.
I don't thing a big foot is out of the question. There is enough anecdotal evidence to make one seem feasable.
January 13, 2003, 10:42 PM
As far as shooting something (non game) that wasn't acting in an aggressive manner, Nope!
Now, wasn't there a story (last year? California?) about some idiot college student that dressed up as Bigfoot and ran around in the woods during hunting season? As I recall he charged up to some poor guy roaring like a banshee, and predictably got himself shot. I suppose I should look in the Snopes website and see if it's there as a hoax or not.
Don in Ohio
January 14, 2003, 05:18 PM
The local people tell each other the story. And from time to time
somebody brings along a new part because they’ve been in touch, in
the night, with one of these creatures. So the yeti is the sum of this
fantasy figure and the zoological reality behind it—a Tibetan bear.
The legend and this Tibetan bear match.
I'm changing the legend. My yeti legend is based on reality. And the reality is only possible in the wilderness. If you take away wilderness from the world, the yeti is gone. If you put the yeti in a normal American zoo it's just an animal. It takes three things to make the yeti: a real animal, a legend, and the wilderness. If you have these three things you can make a yeti. All our real legends, they were born in wilderness, but wilderness doesn't exist anymore. You have a little bit in Alaska, a little in Tibet, a little in Antarctica. And so these beautiful legends will disappear, because we let the wilderness die.
After ID, would I shoot it? Only if I planned on eating it.
Other than that, I'd stay out of its way and enjoy the view. Or more likely, do what Marshall did and get the heck outa there.
As I recall, sailors who first reported the Manatee were laughed at as well. New species of animals are discovered on a regular basis and I see no reason to doubt that a reasonably intelligent large bipod in its native habitat would be able to avoid detection and capture.
January 15, 2003, 08:30 PM
a big hairy, smelly kind of a guy who lives in the woods beyond the village someplace
Oh yeah, lot's of those around here. What's the big deal?
If you're jealous, then go buy your own 20 acres.
January 16, 2003, 01:32 PM
Things can fool you!
Five or six years ago a guy told me he saw a mountain lion here locally. Well, of course there are no lions here. They turn up on rare occasions in SE Alaska, but that's a thousand miles from here - and I live on an island, so no cat is going to wander here under any circumstances. I didn't believe the guy, but listened politely and forgot about it, I thought.
A year or three later I'm driving late at night and see an animal along the road ahead of me at the limit of my headlights. It looks very odd and I begin braking to see what it is. And... it's a damned mountain lion! It's walking right towards my car and I can see the details clearly and there's no mistaking what I see until... it turns broadside and climbs up from the ditch and crosses the road ahead of me and I can see that this is a doe deer.
A deer doesn't look much like a mountain lion, but when you put one in a ditch hidden by grass so it becomes low to the ground, view it from the front with its head stretched out forward to hide the neck and put the animal in some wavering headlights with shadows playing across the scene ... And FINALLY, but the suggestion in the back of your mind that maybe, just maybe there's a mountain lion running around and ... well, you just might see a mountain lion!
The mind has a strange facility for providing details that the eye doesn't see. We've all done this. A bird twitches in a bush and we begin watching until that bird becomes a deers ear, the knob next to it becomes deers head, the trunk its neck... and look at that rack! Until the bird hops to the next branch and the entire thing just becomes a bush again...
January 16, 2003, 03:17 PM
They taste like chicken.
January 16, 2003, 03:18 PM
If positively identified as a not a human, then I would probably shoot it.
If there are as many as have been reported then killing one will not destroy a breeding population. However, the implications of and amount of data that could be collected from a physical specimen are enormous. I wouldn't try to become rich from it, but would definitely use it as a springboard for grant proposals to study the creatures in depth.
Indisputable physical proof of such would lead to millions of dollars being poured into studying and sustaining these creatures. From a carcass we could learn what they eat, study their physiology, compare their DNA to known species including us, learn it's range (through isotope mapping), use this data to locate and observe a population and learn their social structure, etc. The list of possibilities goes on and on.
Disagree with my decision if you want. That's fine. The question was what would I do.
BTW I am currently working on a M.S. in Wildlife Conservation.
January 16, 2003, 11:24 PM
If bigfoot leaves me alone, I will leave him alone.
January 17, 2003, 01:59 PM
First, there's no damn way I'm shooting a humanoid shape. Could be a hoaxer, and then you're down for a murder or manslaughter rap. Second, I don't eat Bigfoot, and if he's not charging me, I ain't gunnin' for him.
This thread does make me want to keep a disposable camera with me at all times. I carry it in one fanny pack for deer hunting, but I sometimes downsize to a smaller pack and don't include the camera.
January 17, 2003, 02:57 PM
I always carry a camera. But if I thought I actually saw one I'm not sure I'd have the presence of mind to use it.
Buck fever, you know....or Bigfoot fever.
January 17, 2003, 06:56 PM
Yes, do carry a camera! I have tried to remember to carry a camera on most of my hunts since then. While I have really gotten into photography in the last 10-12 years and have taken some fabulous shots, never will the opporitunity to photo that same type of thing pass my way again. I have come to accept this, haha, maybe. No, I have accepted this fact, I think? ;)
January 18, 2003, 04:02 PM
I would not want to be famous for shooting Bigfoot unless it was in self defense.
January 18, 2003, 04:25 PM
For all of you that say you only shoot what you eat, what makes you think you couldn't eat it.
Being a biped the upper body is probably pretty tender, and anything that size is going to make abunch of jerky. :D
January 18, 2003, 06:03 PM
Well, ENC, it's certainly a variant on "Long Pig", ain't it? I doubt you'd get away with calling it "Slow Elk".
January 18, 2003, 10:32 PM
Interesting take, Kilgor. I would wonder, suppose it was a nonhuman primate and you did kill it. What would its mate do to you as you were sitting there taking measurements? There have been a lot of hunters killed by friends of the bears or hogs they'd just killed while they were concentrating on their trophy.
I suspect this thing is a lot smarter than a hog and would suspect the female of the species might be pretty vindictive if its at all related to humans.
Chances are it is human and is either the owner of an illegal marijuana patch or a burned out Viet Nam vet or someone else with an extreme attitude, a ghillie suit and an allergy to random shooting. My 2 centavos worth.
January 20, 2003, 01:46 AM
If identified as not a human.
I carry a cell phone with me and get good reception in most places I hunt. After I shot one, I'd load another round into the chamber and call in the calvary. ;)
January 30, 2003, 12:04 AM
Where I live its probably one of my neighbors walking around in a gillie suit or something.
January 30, 2003, 01:35 AM
If I have no license to shoot it then it goes on its merry way in peace!
January 30, 2003, 11:17 AM
All of you guys who've mentioned ghillies suits are right on. They look just like a "big foot" trundling through the timber. So the answer to the original question is not only no but heck no.
Now in Marshalls case I'd have slipped in a couple of 3" breneke slugs (which I always carry with me when bird hunting just in case) and proceeded to see what the heck that thing was. I do have a thing about dangerous game especially in the tall grass. If I had a soilid ID on a genuine yeti I think I'd probably let her go unless she had the bad taste to charge me. Then it would be monkey curtains baby.
January 30, 2003, 10:06 PM
Monkey curtains went out of fashion last fall. The new think is Shark Fin mini-blinds.
February 4, 2003, 05:35 AM
But then it's my buddies that think I saw bigfeets, not me.:D
I set up to hunt deer on a high ditchbank with a clear cut extending away into the woods on the opposite side of the ditch. To my left the ditch makes a 90 degree turn paralleling the cut. On that corner was a beaver damn. I had a clear shot down the ditch to my right for a long ways and there was basically no water in the ditch in that direction due to the dam. Sun was setting behind me, it was very cold.
A buddy and his brother were hunting in the woods about a quarter mile down the ditch to my right. I heard branches breaking across the ditch in the woods coming from that direction. My first thought was one of my buddies got cold and decided to push me a deer. My second thought was, must be a freaking bear, huge branches are being broken. Just before it appeared I was sure no bear could make that much racket unless crazy wounded. Bear are extremely rare in this area. Perhaps a moose by the sounds of it? But there are none of those around here either.
I was ready with my scoped 06. Whatever it was definately was about to enter the clearing across the ditch.
Two dark human shapes stop on the edge of the clearing maybe 35-40 yards out. No orange, no guns, I can not make out faces or clothing even though the sun is shining from behind me full right onto them. Weird! Just dark human shapes.
They look left and right before crossing the clearing.. Just like we teach our kids to cross a street. Across the clearing they start. I know they didn't see me because the sun had to have blinded them. They get right in the middle of the clearing and freeze instantly in their tracks, both heads snap swivel and stare right at me in unison. The wind is blowing from me to them at this point, they have smelled me! I still don't think they can see me because of the sun but they act like they are afraid and frozen in place. I get to thinking these stupid people see me and are afraid I am going to shoot them or something so I slowly raise my left hand, like an indian doing the "how" greeting to reassure them all is well. Little one snaps his head around to look at the big one who snaps his head straight ahead and off they strut continuing hurriedly across the clearing.
SPLASH! Those crazy idiots are swimming the creek! Why didn't they use the beaver damn to cross? It's like very freaking deep there, at least 12 feet deep. Nothing but knee deep swamp on the other side, not a house for miles in that direction and the sun is down within minutes. Where in the heck do they think they are going?
So anyway, whoever or whatever it was must have been shagging out of the woods because of my buddies down stream and ran right into me. Sure seems discourteous that they wouldn't wave back and smile. I never heard them make any verbal sounds. My buds said they never saw anyone.
These days I think maybe I should have at least put the scope on them. They wouldn't have even known it and I would have a little more info, a lot less questions. Shooting was never a consideration. They were no threat to me. If they were though I'd have dropped them both like a box of rocks in the bottom of the ditch. Remington 7400 carbine with 165gr Nosler Ballistic Tips! Oh yeah.
February 4, 2003, 08:33 AM
Now, Ryder, I got a bit of a problem: If I can see the difference between grey-colored quail and grey-colored doves at 35 yards (the distance from my window to my bird-feeder) and see chipmunk sized antelope squirrels, how is it you're only seeing dark shapes?
Great story, but the distance oughta be out around 200. Maybe 300. I might buy 300. 35? No sale.
Now, my ex-wife is real near-sighted, but at least she could tell the difference between me and the dog.
February 4, 2003, 09:57 AM
Yeah, I got a problem with it too Art. :) Back in those days my eyesight was perfection so I don't understand it either. Could be an optical illusion? Maybe my mind was blanking things out by trying to find the missing blaze orange and guns? But ya know, now that you mention distances... They appeared to me to be of normal human size... IF I was estimating distance based on the size of a man and these really were "Bigfeets" then they would have had to have been further out than I've always thought. But I still wouldn't want to put it out much beyond 60 yards.
Much like a previous story mentioned here, why no hats in that kind of cold? Probably the strangest part though is crossing that deep water. They were desperately trying to get somewhere in a big hurry while maintaining as much cover as possible. The reason they didn't cross the beaver dam was because it was in my view, I couldnt see them where they crossed because of brush along the ditch bank. They didn't ease into the water like a person might do, there was a whole lot of splashing, and they didn't hesitate on the opposite bank upon reaching the other side. I listened to them splash away through the swamp for quite aways breaking many large branches as they went.
After all that I couldn't get back to the car and crank up that heater quick enough, it was bitter cold once the sun went down and the last thing I wanted was to be out there with freaks like that roaming around in the dark. Human or otherwise.
Like I said, I've always told the story as just a strange experience... I don't claimed em to be bigfeet. I would never put a bullet into something just to find out.
February 5, 2003, 05:15 PM
I let it go.
I'm not hunting Big Foot. I'm hunting elk.
February 12, 2003, 06:03 PM
No tag, no shot. Besides, it's probably some guy dressed in a big foot costume anyway.
February 13, 2003, 02:27 AM
Im so sick of the "mystery", and Im an anthropologist....If I was satisfied it wasnt human......I would shoot.
February 13, 2003, 10:11 AM
Wet Blanket Time: I ran across a news article within the last few days, saying the guy who did the original Bigfoot hoax died. Age 84.
He cut out some plywood "feet" to make the tracks; the original photos were of his wife in a gorilla-type costume. His family, of course, has known about it for years.
The writer of the article commented about other such "sightings" in Louisiana and elsewhere...
Ain't imagination wonderful? On both sides, hoaxer and hoaxee?
February 23, 2003, 06:33 PM
Why kill a big foot ? you going to eat it?
February 25, 2003, 02:24 PM
Darn right I'd eat it. You ever had Yeti etoufei before?? Tastes like chicken.
February 27, 2003, 05:48 AM
Great story. What part of OK did that happen in? The reason I ask is my wife has some family from the Broken Bow/Idabel area and I had a very interesting conversation with a couple of folks when I went to visit. I always thought they were pulling my leg, or had gotten into that "McCurtain county gold", but maybe not.
I also saw some people who could have passed for a Bigfoot, myself included (6'8" 280#).
February 27, 2003, 07:26 AM
If i were 1000% positive it was a big foot,......
Sheeeeeet!! first i'd say it, then probably do it,and i wouldn't tell anyone!
I would not shoot
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