Medford Oregon Newpaper Sues To Get Names Of Gun Owners


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simpleguy
November 14, 2007, 07:32 PM
All right guys, you do some amazing things....gun owners in Southern Oregon need your help from a paper that is seriously off the reservation.
This is from Oregon Firearms Federation's Website.

http://oregonfirearms.org/alertspage/11.13.07%20alert.html

MEDFORD NEWSPAPER SUES TO GET NAMES OF GUN OWNERS
As you may have heard, the Medford Mail Tribune has sued to get the names of concealed handgun license holders.

This action was taken as a result of the lawsuit brought by a Medford teacher against the Medford school district. As you know, teacher Shirley Katz was suing to be allowed to carry her defensive firearm to work at Medford High School.

The Mail Tribune, which has repeatedly editorialized that licensed, trained adults should NOT be allowed to carry firearms on school property, believes that one of the ways to promote its anti-gun agenda is to intimidate gun owners by demanding that the Sheriff turn over the names of license holders.

What possible purpose this would serve, beyond invading the privacy of the most law abiding residents of Oregon, remains a mystery. But the Tribune's Editor, Bob Hunter is determined to proceed.

Jackson County Sheriff Mike WInters has so far refused, correctly pointing out the dangers this would present. “We were reluctant to hand over the names because we don’t want to make it easier for anybody who would use the information for harm in terms of credit card fraud or identity theft." Winters said.

Editor Bob Hunter believes that he has the right to those names for whatever purpose he chooses to use them. "This is information bought and paid for by the public, and the public has a right to it.” But of course, that's not true. The public did not buy and pay for this information. The information was paid for by the fees license holders are forced to pay to exercise a "right." But Bob goes on “It’s important for news media to take a stand on something like this because if public information is withheld in this way it will diminish the amount of public information the public is allowed to see,”

The truth is, whether it is legal for the press to obtain these names or not, (and attorneys have recently informed us it may NOT be legal) the only purpose being served is to chill the rights of gun owners. It would be no different if we published the home addresses and phone numbers of Tribune staff and hid behind the First Amendment. (Which we will do if they continue this senseless exercise.)

While the Sheriff should be applauded for his efforts to protect license holders,Bob Hunter and the Mail Tribune and its advertisers should know that it's wrong to promote their anti self-defense crusade by threatening the privacy of gun owners.

You can contact Hunter by e-mail here bhunter@mailtribune.com or by regular mail and phone here:

Mail Tribune
P.O. Box 1108
111 N. Fir St.
Medford, OR 97501
541-776-4411

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NeveraVictimAgain
November 14, 2007, 07:59 PM
This is like the newspaper - was it in Virginia? - that published the names of law abiding CHL holders. I must also ask, what's the point? Are these people so ignorant they acutally believe the mere possesion of a gun is wrong? Are those exercising their RKBA supposed to be ostracized? Are the neighbors going to shun them? Will the landlords of CHLs who rent be pressured to evict them?
There's some facet to the "thinking" - although I suspect it's based purely on emotion - of this radical left conspiracy that I'm just not getting. Can someone with more insight into their "thinking" explain it to me, please?

gunsmith
November 14, 2007, 08:09 PM
Melissa ( 541-776-4411)
At the newspaper, she has only gotten two calls on the matter.
I guess you guys are sleeping!
Anyway, she is a nice young lady who thinks that
it is public information and that our fight should be with the leglislator(SIC).
(These kids today, they think they invented the wheel...EVERY paper
says the same thing)
For some reason, she was reluctant to give me her personal info
for publication on the www.
Well, lets gear up fellas and ladies, we need a list of the people who work at the paper (and their home addresses) as well as their advertisers.

gunsmith
November 14, 2007, 08:18 PM
Through the internet I found out that lovely Melissa
made the deans list recently, for some reason she wasn't very happy
that the semi anonymous gun nut on the phone knew that much personal info
about her.:evil:

simpleguy
November 14, 2007, 10:30 PM
I just got this off....
http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/departments/newsroom/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003659418

Reporter Paris Achen quoted Editor Bob Hunter as saying, "This is information bought and paid for by the public, and the public has a right to it."

I don't understand what the fees are if the public has bought and paid for it? If there were no fees, I could see an argument.

gunsmith
November 15, 2007, 02:04 AM
When this info gets published it does more then give info out for
people to steal ID's, which is bad enough.
When an Ohio paper did it, a man was killed and his gun stolen.
A women in VA had to move because her abusive creep of an ex
found her again.
We have to publish the names , addresses and phone numbers
of the people that work for this paper and the ADVERTISERS as well.
When asked directly for personal info theses creepy "journalist"
do not want it published....Well too bad!
What is good for us is good for them.
The PEOPLE have a right to know who is practicing their first amendment rights

novaDAK
November 15, 2007, 02:23 AM
here we go again...them and their BS. :rolleyes:

Diggers
November 15, 2007, 03:59 AM
Maybe I'm wrong but I thought the people of Oregon for the most part wouldn't care about who owns a gun or has a CCW. :confused:

Last time I drove through Bend OR. I saw signs saying "Win a gun!" In front of guns shops along the way. :)

gunsmith
November 15, 2007, 11:41 AM
Maybe I'm wrong but I thought the people of Oregon for the most part wouldn't care about who owns a gun or has a CCW

They do not care and probably support gun ownership.

What ccw'ers care about is being targeted by miscreants looking to kill
some one and taking their gun.

ccw works because the bad guys DO NOT KNOW who has a gun.

Police officers have been killed so that criminals can get a gun.

If this thread was in general we would have "zumboed" these fascist already.

Scorpiusdeus
November 15, 2007, 12:34 PM
I just sent Bobby an email. I made sure it was not filled with anger and hate, but realistic concern and the promise that if he pursues his personal Vendetta against gun owners, we'd be contacting his advertisers and do what we legally could to ruin his day as much as he seeks to ruin ours.

mpmarty
November 15, 2007, 12:44 PM
Mr. Hunter:

I am a concealed weapons permit holder in Oregon and also hold or have held CCW permits as a non resident of Washington State.
Your feeling that the information should be public as it is gathered at public expense is misguided. Every time I renew my permit I pay fifty dollars. The CCW program in Oregon is self supporting and always has been.

Publishing names and addresses of CCW holders is an invasion of privacy, pure and simple. Furthermore, it is dangerous and could result in unintended consequences such as:

A divorced or separated spouse has been abused by her husband or significant other. She moves away from the area she formerly lived in and attends a firearms safety course to obtain her CCW. She feels safe as she is now better able to defend herself and the person who was a threat to her does not know where she lives or works. You would destroy this by making public her name and address.

Trite as it may sound to you sir, denying CCW permits is telling five foot tall one hundred pound ladies that they should go “hand to hand” with a six foot two hundred pound attacker.

Finally, if you succeed in your efforts, and expose my name and address, I will personally file a suit for invasion of privacy.

Marty Patrovsky
Legal / Regulatory Liaison Officer
Comspan Communications
541-229-2101 Direct Line
541-430-0217 Cell Phone

novaDAK
November 15, 2007, 02:30 PM
I think that is exactly why they're doing this. They want to scare people into NOT getting a CCW. If they make people afraid that they're personal info will be published and made public to the world they'd be less likely to go through and get their CCW.

kbellis3
November 15, 2007, 06:56 PM
In Ohio in response to a similar move by a newpaper in Sandusky Ohio the Buckeye Firearms Ass. published almost every piece of legally obtainable information on the newspaper editor they could get their hands on.

Maybe it is time for firearms owners in Oregon to do the same.

K-3

http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/article3823.html

Jim K
November 16, 2007, 03:15 PM
Easy response. An association or just a few guys who have permits get together, hire an attorney and countersue on the grounds of invasion of privacy and the clear intent of the paper to make the names of gun owners available to criminals, burglars and other persons who can do harm to the named citizens.

Request compensation from the paper for mental anguish and promoting fear. If you look, you can probably find libel in there too. Freedom of the press is not absolute, and permit holders are not "public figures", so if the press calls them names, it can be held liable. (Example: "The insane fascist nutcases who insist on arming themselves for no purpose than murdering innocent people....")

Jim

jeepmor
November 21, 2007, 07:24 AM
Better yet, write your legislator and support making this list private. I've started a thread here in Activism to do just that. I need some help and support in finding legislators that will support this effort.

Better yet, lets push them to move to Alaska and Vermont legislation that actually defaults to our nation's Second Amendment. What a concept.

Write Sheriff Winters in the Rogue Valley and offer him your support. His email link is in my thread. Get off your duffs, quit complaining and be proactive and we can squash these bugs. It won't take a huge effort, but I can't do it by myself.

BTW, nice work gunsmith

Oregonians, help me find the proper legislators to contact such that we can make these lists out of reach of the public forever.

Marty - you could be a HUGE asset here man, PM me if you can help. I'm seriously sending letters and trying to get this process moving. It's time we do something about it before these local rag bozos get someone hurt or killed by exposing their locations to others.

Here's my thread - http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=310158

rjohnson4405
November 21, 2007, 10:29 AM
Email sent to Bobby as well, quite polite I thought.

rjohnson4405
November 21, 2007, 10:41 AM
Sent a support note to Sheriff Winter, gosh I wish I could help him stay elected, but alas, I can only affect where I live...

gunsmith
December 1, 2007, 04:40 PM
they made it seem as if there is no danger to gun owners
if their names and personal info is outed.

Experience shows us different, from the few teachers who are carrying without getting caught or bringing lawsuits, to the women hiding from stalkers and the normal guy, who doesn't want to be targeted by some gangbanger looking for a gun or to make a name for himself.
Truly an outrage!

sdj
December 1, 2007, 07:54 PM
Better yet, write your legislator and support making this list private.

Agreed. As Ben Kenobi said, "These aren't the 'droids you're looking for.". :-)


On another note: this newsman might have a motive that has little to do with firearms. He might well be seeking to create an issue on which people are divided in order to increase the readership of paper for which he works. Additionally, if the Sheriff is elected, he might be creating an issue which possibly leads to current Sheriff's being voted out.

Lord, why can't we all just get along? :-)

jeepmor
December 2, 2007, 01:25 AM
All,

I was contacted by Bruce Starr, an Oregon state Senator, regarding my correspondence advocating making this CCW list private in Oregon and out of reach of newspapers such as this that are trying to create a story instead of report one. He said he is planning on bringing this up in 2009. Not sure why it would wait that long, but I don't navigate the .gov procedural quagmire very well.

Mr Winters, the local sheriff, appreciates the support. Give him some more fellas.

WinterMS@jacksoncounty.org

Autolycus
December 3, 2007, 01:07 AM
Well perhaps we could start putting their emails, home numbers, home addresses, and other personal information on the web so that all can see it?

mikec
December 3, 2007, 03:18 AM
Here is the parent company: http://www.ottaway.com/index.html

The BIG parent is: http://www.dj.com/

Anyone want to buy some shares of Dow Jones and raise grief at a stock holder meeting?

Anonymous Coward
December 13, 2007, 07:13 PM
Legal or not, it's just rude.

Why don't they print the name of everyone in the county who has a criminal record? That would be more appropriate, don'tcha think?

JT1JTI
December 13, 2007, 07:59 PM
Without commenting on whether I think the paper's story is "newsworthy," I have to ask why gun owners who will fight to exercise their 2nd Amendment rights seemed outraged by reporters and editors fighting to exercise their 1st Amendment rights. Have I missed something?

Anyhow, newspapers are like buggy whips in this internet age. I'm expecting to have to find something else to train my puppy with soon.

Oh, and I don't see parent Dow Jones (a.k.a. publisher of the Wall Street Journal) being the media cheerleader for any radical left conspiracy.

LSCurrier
December 13, 2007, 08:50 PM
I spoke to someone at the paper (a female / didn't get her name) and was told that they are just seeking the number of CCW holders and not name and addresses.

I don't believe this at all!!

I know that the anti's will do anything and say anything to deceive people and that in their own twisted minds the are justified in using any means necessary.

We must show them that they are SADLY mistaken and that they shall pay a dear cost when their deception is exposed for all to see!! Journalists were once defenders of truth and freedom - this is NO LONGER the case.

Luke

AirplaneDoc
December 23, 2007, 12:20 PM
I would recomend starting a campaign to cancel newspaper subscriptions and then get local business to boycott advertising in the local paper. I dn't subscribe to a newspaper, I have no pets so no need to have a daily dog toy or litter boxliner brought to th house, but if I did and my name appeared in one as a CCW holder, I would be contacting every other person on the list to make sure that they cancelled their subscription, and would also make sure that any local business that advertised in the paper was also aware of the loss of subscribers, and they inturn should cancel their advertising with them.

Can't believe I am saying this but, hurray for the local sherriff

mikec
December 23, 2007, 12:30 PM
AirplaneDoc, this tactic can be successful however since the parent company is a national publisher, see my earlier post, others can help. If every gun owner checks who owns their "local" paper, most aren't local, we can hurt a company like this.

RocketMan
December 28, 2007, 10:15 PM
I was contacted by Bruce Starr, an Oregon state Senator, regarding my correspondence advocating making this CCW list private in Oregon and out of reach of newspapers such as this that are trying to create a story instead of report one. He said he is planning on bringing this up in 2009. Not sure why it would wait that long, but I don't navigate the .gov procedural quagmire very well.


Jeepmor,

The Oregon legislature meets only every other year. I believe the next time they meet is 2009.

lefteye
March 8, 2008, 05:46 PM
Without commenting on whether I think the paper's story is "newsworthy," I have to ask why gun owners who will fight to exercise their 2nd Amendment rights seemed outraged by reporters and editors fighting to exercise their 1st Amendment rights. Have I missed something?

Publishing the information would be an exercise of 1st Amendment rights. Obtaining the information is not an exercise of 1st Amendment rights. If it was a 1st Amendment right to obtain any information in the possession of a government entity, then we all have a right to all information in the possession of the executive branch of the U.S. govenrment, e.g., classified information at the Pentagon, the CIA, the FBI, etc. Gun owners do not (at least this gun owner does not) seek to deny anyone there right to express their anti-gun opinions.

M14/11B
March 8, 2008, 08:09 PM
Maybe we should publish all the personal information of these "journalists", such as their home addresses, tax bills etc., because this is all public information in gov't. databases that we all paid for as taxpayers. It is our right as much as their right to this info.

hnk45acp
March 12, 2008, 12:45 PM
Any new info on this? It is a few months old

TylerDurden
March 12, 2008, 01:10 PM
Not sure off hand. I think it is still tied up legally.

I just got mine a couple of days ago.

It is frustrating.

Criminals around here are savvy. All they need is a name and access to a hospital computer. Look up the name and bam, "I guess I won't break into his house afterall." I say this because I worked with someone who read the obituaries, found out when the funeral was, got in the hospital record, robbed the house during the funeral. Finally got caught. Earned a one way eventual ticket to hell, in my mind. Anyway, we need to watch out for our information.

Mail Tribune can kiss my a**. As mentioned earlier, they are just wanting to scare people into not getting a CCW and to spread liberal propoganda. I don't even go to their website anymore.

Sheriff Mike Winters deserves credit and exposure for his support.

Is there any other Highroad members from the Medford area? What's up with this? What is the latest?

TD
Medford Area

takhtakaal
March 12, 2008, 01:16 PM
This is the last a friend from Medford (hey, I gots connections!) could find:

http://www.mailtribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080209/NEWS/802090310

Sheriff testifies he'll work to keep weapon carriers private

Mail Tribune asserts names are public record and papers they sign state as much


By Anita Burke
Mail Tribune
February 09, 2008

Jackson County Sheriff Mike Winters testified Friday in a lawsuit brought by the Mail Tribune that he will fight to keep the names of people with concealed handgun licenses private. That's despite the paper's assertion that the information is public record and was identified to permit holders as such.

"It's up to me to secure their information and records," Winters said.

The Mail Tribune, invoking the state's public records law, had asked for a list of license holders in August as part of an investigation into news that a South Medford High School teacher had such a permit and wanted to carry her gun at school. Teacher Shirley Katz sued the Medford School District over a policy prohibiting employees from taking weapons on campus, then appealed when the policy was found valid.

TylerDurden
March 12, 2008, 04:46 PM
This is what is irritating:

Why is it relevant? Why do they need a list of names for their story?

Ok, I am done. For now.

tmajors
March 12, 2008, 05:22 PM
Ask Matt Westerhold or Chauncey Alcorn how they liked all their personal information coming out after they published a CCW list in the Sandusky Register.

TylerDurden
March 12, 2008, 11:23 PM
Interesting...

BAT1
March 13, 2008, 12:16 AM
Kudos for Sheriff Mike Winters! Simple as this: Shall not be infringed. We need to make a domestic enemy data bank for all to see and reverse the heat.

Wade-0
March 17, 2008, 05:50 PM
Maybe someone should go digging into Bob Hunter's past. Then he could join his buddy Bolsinger in the local headlines:

http://www.mailtribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080206/NEWS/802060325/-1/COMM

(The Ashland Daily Tidings is a sister publication of the Medford Mail Tribune)

TylerDurden
March 19, 2008, 01:28 AM
Brilliant! :D

I live in Talent. Between this and the eminent B.S. going on between the Imigrant Hills mansions-Ashland-lease-Gun Club thing I am getting a little sense of activism.

Making soap gets old after a while.

I already told a kid that I wasn't intereseted in a subscription to the Mail Tribune for this very reason. He looked shady at 8:30 at night anyway.

-TD

jakk280rem
May 18, 2008, 01:46 AM
i heard about shirley katz here in salem, but i didnt hear that the paper wanted to publish personal info of ccw holders. i am deffinetly interested in an update when available.

bdickens
May 18, 2008, 06:02 PM
Without commenting on whether I think the paper's story is "newsworthy," I have to ask why gun owners who will fight to exercise their 2nd Amendment rights seemed outraged by reporters and editors fighting to exercise their 1st Amendment rights. Have I missed something?

Yes, you did miss something. Publishing sensitive personal information about people is a serious invasion of their privacy and has nothing to do with freedom of the press.

Wade-0
May 19, 2008, 11:53 PM
Sorry to say, I saw on the news a week or so back that the paper won their case, and the court ordered the sheriff's office to hand over the list. I'll see if I can find anything online to post a link.

EDIT: Here's the official court opinion:
http://www.ojd.state.or.us/jac/documents/MailTribunevsSheriffWinters.pdf

Ash
May 20, 2008, 08:19 AM
Yeah, what if the press decides to sue over medical records.

Ash

Rem700
May 20, 2008, 12:38 PM
Doesnt it say the application is a matter of public record?
Doesnt say anything about the permit itself.

alexanderplatz
May 20, 2008, 01:13 PM
Without commenting on whether I think the paper's story is "newsworthy," I have to ask why gun owners who will fight to exercise their 2nd Amendment rights seemed outraged by reporters and editors fighting to exercise their 1st Amendment rights. Have I missed something?

Additionally I would add that the first amendment does not say anything about the collecting of information. If I already know that my neighbor Bob likes to dress in women's clothing, I can say so if I choose to. But that doesn't mean I can go rifle through his personal effects just to confirm a suspicion.

hnk45acp
May 20, 2008, 01:20 PM
I'm not surprised by the court opinion but there's a big difference in a private citizen filing a FOIA request for the list and a newspaper publishing the entire list addresses and all.
If the paper wants to use the info for data, fine but when they start printing names and addresses is when they need to be stopped

Wade-0
May 20, 2008, 01:26 PM
I got the impression that they would have considered it more seriously if ANY of the permit holders had filed a complaint about their information being released. Apparently no one did.

RockRifle
May 28, 2008, 12:58 AM
Obviously State Law had a hole you could drive a truck through... (they did!)... Keep the updates coming!

Contact your State Senators, Representatives, and local leadership to offer support to future legislation to curb this action. The County Sheriff is the keeper of the records, support your local sheriff!

Beyond that future hope, is there anything we can do to change our individual status as "part of the public record" NOW? Do all CCL's in the state need to converge on the Medford courthouse to file for exemption?

legal advice please...

230RN
June 1, 2008, 03:32 AM
I suspect the next time this comes up with some hotshot journalist, all we have to do is send him the Buckeye link a previous poster provided when the Sandusky Register tried the same thing:

FROM:

http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/article3823.html


Here's one of the scary parts...



What is the harm in publishing lists of concealed handgun license holders?
Submitted by buckeyefirearms on Thu, 06/28/2007 - 18:06. BFA News
By Ken Hanson

(snip)

So, as a service to our readers, we have prepared an example by using Sandusky Register Editor Matt H. Westerhold. We have selected him simply because the paper has pointed to him as the one "responsible" for the decision to publish the lists.

(snip)


It is very easy to determine that Mr. Westerhold has gone to pretty significant steps to insure that his own personal information is not public.

(snip)


More seriously, for the hardcore bad guy, these public records (per the Dissolution settlement) show that Matt has a pre-teen child who resides with his ex-wife. Reviewing the child support worksheet and the financial affidavits, we see that no tuition or school payments are listed, so it is a relatively high percentage bet that the child is a public school student. We see from the worksheet that mom has custody, so the child almost certainly is the residential parent for school purposes. From further public records, we see the marriage license from Mr. Westerhold’s ex-wife a year after the dissolution, and we already knew her date of birth, social security number and recent employer from the Dissolution. With very little effort we find ex-wife’s residence and now are relatively sure of which public school his pre-teen child goes to simply by checking the auditor’s maps for this residence for school districts. A check of the school website will show us the bus schedule for that particular school and that street or address, so we will almost certainly, with little effort, know which bus the child rides and what time it picks up/drops off. Further, most public libraries keep copies of the local school yearbooks in the reference section. Even if that is not the case, it is going to be fairly easy to get the yearbook and probably get a picture of the child for identification purposes.

Chilling, isn’t it?

(snip)

Attorney Ken Hanson is Buckeye Firearms Association Legislative Chair and author of The Ohio Guide to Firearm Laws.

Maybe that will do the trick.

Wade-0
June 1, 2008, 11:43 PM
They haven't published the list... yet. The editor said he wouldn't, that he justed wanted to prove a point. Hopefully he's already been convinced that it would be a bad idea.

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