Isn't Cheaper Sometimes Better??


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Maestro
January 10, 2003, 11:40 PM
I know this has probably been hashed around before but I'll post it anyway.When carrying a handgun for self defense I want the cheapest,most reliable pistol for the job.Am I crazy to think this way?Why should I carry a 650.00 Sig when a 350.00 CZ will do the same thing.If a shooting occurs in which I've had to use my handgun...the cops are gonna take it from me.And in this part of the world guns seem to mysteriously disappear if you get my drift.They get lost after the fact or accidently destroyed.So if I'm gonna possibly loose my gun for life I would much rather do without a CZ than a Sig. or decked out 1911.They aren't gonna replace the cost of the weapon anyway.Thoughts?

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Dienekes
January 10, 2003, 11:58 PM
My current carry piece is a police trade-in .357; bought two identical ones a few years back for $190 apiece. I have others like them around for which I paid less; one was $90. I have a SIG 220 in the safe (along with other toys); I shoot the revolvers better anyway.

Your money is better spent on training and ammo. And if you use the gun, for a good attorney to keep you out of further trouble.

10-Ring
January 11, 2003, 12:02 AM
I had this debate a few months ago w/ some friends. The thinking was, why then buy, practice, maybe compete with nicer more expensive guns if you're going to trust you life to a POS (just characterising for effect) for a carry gun? You see I was looking for something "cheaper" that I wouldn't mind beating up & abusing from daily carry when this question was posed to me. I ended up buying a "pre-owned" version of a gun I have that I bought new. Same trigger, same pointing characteristics & same reliability/durability but somehow now worthy of abuse.

PATH
January 11, 2003, 12:04 AM
Well I know my S&W revolvers were cheaper because I bought them used. (See S&W Boycott)

A little work and they worked wonderfully. Yes, in some cases cheaper is better.

jame
January 11, 2003, 12:19 AM
Who ever said that a CZ was less of a gun than the Sig? I carry a Sig, but I consider the CZ to be just as good, dependent upon your needs. The ONLY reason I don't carry a CZ is because of the long double action trigger reach. CZ's are fine guns. No excuses necessary.

Scott13
January 11, 2003, 12:41 AM
Just wondering has anyone ever had their gun taken away , by the Police and gotten it back ?

Kahr carrier
January 11, 2003, 01:13 AM
My Buddy had his Python taken away from him on a traffic stop,when he went to Court to try to get it back the Judge ordered it destoyed because he said it was a public nusiance isnt life in the Prk grand.:cuss: :banghead: :neener:

Tamara
January 11, 2003, 01:26 AM
Just wondering has anyone ever had their gun taken away , by the Police and gotten it back ?

Yes. After the motorcycle wreck I had a couple of years back, they took the Glock 29 and the Bisley Vaquero that had been on the back of the bike and the Tomcat that was in my pocket. Never asked to see my permit, which was not on me at the time, only asked me (while I'm lying on the table in the ER with the bone hanging out of my leg) if the guns were stolen. I replied in the negative. (Well, actually, it also involved a lot of screaming and cussing as well as asking the officer if he got a lot of "yes" answers to that question. They hadn't given me any painkillers yet, so I was a little short with the poor guy.)

They gave me a property form for the guns, and my boyfriend went and picked them up after I was out of the hospital (I had to sign a notarized release).

Ala Dan
January 11, 2003, 01:35 AM
On a routine daily basis, which one of these weapons
do I want to trust my life or the lives of loved one's to?

SIG's "Classic" P-series

or

the CZ line?


Well my friend, one word sums it up for me: RELIABILITY
With that said, I will make my choice the .45 caliber SIG-Sauer P220A!

*FootNote- While the CZ's are outstanding firearms in their
own right; I just feel more comfortable with a firearm that
has proven its-self on more than one occassion, as it saved
my bacon!

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member

hansolo
January 11, 2003, 01:46 AM
Some of you have read of my numerous mechanical problems with the FIRST CZ 75B I bought: fail to feed and eject about one out of 20 rounds -- and my SECOND 75B, a replacement for the first: this one is on its way, as I speak, back for more warranty work: the guy at CZ says, "No, three broken slidestops in six months is not unusual....actually, we're back-ordered on slidestops"! Doesn't say a lot for their quality control.

Would I trust my life to my 46 year-old S&W M/P .38 Special? YES....not one glitch in almost half a century!!!!!!!!:neener:

Porter Rockwell
January 11, 2003, 01:51 AM
I fail to understand the logic of the original poster before the thread disintegrates into SIG vs CZ.
Are you actually saying that the loss of $600.00, $1000.00, is more important that you and yours?? Tell me, do you buy the cheapest fire extinguisher or the best? What about a nice second hand set of brand new Firestones for the family car, fresh off the recalled Fords!??
Now to the CZ vs SIG dicussion, chuckle. Just for grins, who wants to put a wager down on a longivity contest between the aluminum SIG and the steel CZ?
My money is on the CZ, BTW, do a net search on the many, many broken SIGs compared to the extremely low reports of broken CZs.
IMO of course!

Dave R
January 11, 2003, 03:08 AM
I tend to think like you, Ten Bears. I buy the functionality. If the price is lower for the same functionality, that's a better value.

In pistols, my $200 FEG shoots as well as any PPK I've tried.

In rifles, my box-stock Rem700 will shoot MOA on demand. Cost $450. Its not worth another $450 to me to shrink the groups another inch at 200 yards.

I know there are other for whom it IS worth the $$$$ for that extra inch. And I respect that. I'm just not that way right now. Too many kids to raise.

Edward429451
January 11, 2003, 03:34 AM
Just wondering has anyone ever had their gun taken away , by the Police and gotten it back ?

Oh yeah. Like pulling teeth though. Details aside, the moral of the story is never plea bargain. (Don't laugh too hard at the SG stocks, my (then) 10 yr old son picked out the finish and we had a nice weekend together finishing them. They've since both been redone).

Edward429451
January 11, 2003, 03:41 AM
Another view. That evidence tape is a PITA to remove. They went wild with it too..:banghead:

sm
January 11, 2003, 03:57 AM
Reliability is a important component on choice of a CCW. I don't use price as an component. What's a C note or 2 when my life or loved ones may be at stake.I can appreciate getting good value for the money. I mean many new CCW students get a great older K frame like a mod 10 , used for less money--but they are reliable.

I have my criteria, yes I have to buy within a budget, but not primary thought in makng decision.

New_comer
January 11, 2003, 07:07 AM
Isn't Cheaper Sometimes Better?? Agree...

Some times only... not all times.

I do believe that every one of us tries to find the best gun that budget could allow.

But it follows that once a gun is chosen, we've got to stick and practice with it...

not sometimes...

but always ;)

Rob96
January 11, 2003, 07:36 AM
Hey, with a house and a family, you have to find the best for your money. For a 45acp I bought a Ruger P-90T NIB for $325. Picked a factory refurbed G19 for $400. I like utilitarian. As long as it is accurate and reliable.

Maestro
January 11, 2003, 12:27 PM
Let me clarify.
Why should I carry a high dollar firearm for protection when a cheaper one which is just as reliable will do?I mean CZ's,FEG's,certain Taurus semi's,revolvers etc. are just as reliable as Hi-Powers,Sigs,Custom 1911's,Glocks,Beretta's etc. in "MY" book.If I'm gonna loose a firearm after using it I would prefer to do without a CZ as compared to a Sig 226.
I did not say the CZ's were any less pistols than Sigs.
Porter Rockwell,folks each do the best they can with what they can.I would rather sustain the loss of a CZ75 than a Sig226 any day.If you shoot the thing for self-defense it will be taken from your posession in Va.There are instances of the firearm not/never being returned to the original owner.If folks don't mind having their high dollar pistols taken that's fine.Possible monetary loss hits everyone differently.Some will shake off the loss of a higher dollar pistol and just go get another.But some shooters try to maintain a balance between firearms costs and family responsibilities.
Again,if you shoot it in Virginia in self-defense it will be removed from your possesion.You have only the authorities word it will be returned.But that does not guarantee you will get it back.

Tamara
January 11, 2003, 12:54 PM
Bear in mind that the loss of a $1,000 pistol to some will, proportionally, be less significant to some than the loss of a $250 pistol to others.

Tropical Z
January 11, 2003, 01:05 PM
Cost is irrelevant IMHO.
My Hi-Point IS reliable.My much vaunted and respected Sistema WASN'T.Reliability is the issue.

Chris Rhines
January 11, 2003, 01:38 PM
I just really like CZs. I really don't like Sigs, at least the Classic line.

- Chris

CWL
January 11, 2003, 04:17 PM
I would buy and use what ever I believed to be the most reliable for myself. Spendthriftness doesn't take part in personal survival.

Life or Gun? Life = More important.

Even if I lost the pistola, I'd just go and buy another of the same, it worked well the first time didn't it?

DeltaElite
January 11, 2003, 04:33 PM
If you have to use a weapon in self defense, do you really think that the cost of the weapon taken into evidence should be of any consideration?
Just be glad that you are alive to face another day.

In short, get the best weapon you can afford and carry it.
Cheap guns are not the way to go, what is your life worth?

Heck, on duty I carry $2000+ in firearms, that's just three guns.
I do so, because I don't carry junk. :D

ajacobs
January 11, 2003, 04:57 PM
I want the gun I can shoot the best and is most reliable in any given scenario regardless of cost. If it saves my life it is worth whatever the cost was even if I don't get it back. Plus it is much funner to train with a good gun then a junk one and that means I train more often and am better at saving my own life.

Sean Smith
January 11, 2003, 05:31 PM
I've gotta say these sorts of posts are kind of annoying... implying that people who use guns that cost more than yours are idiots or show-offs or something is pretty ignorant. It's not like everyone is making posts saying that you are an idiot if you only want/can afford/etc. a $300 CZ instead of a $3,000 Ed Brown.

Here is a hint for you: people spend more money on guns to GET BETTER GUNS! :rolleyes:

How much better? That depends. Is it worth it? That depends. Is it any of your business why I spent $570 or $2,000 on a gun? No, and frankly I could give a rat's booty what you think about it. So why make a post about it?

:neener:

Another thought is that if you are more concerned with not having something expensive confiscated than having the best weapon you can get for the GUNFIGHT, I'd suggest your priorities are kind of silly.

Patriot
January 11, 2003, 06:57 PM
If that's the case...then we should all be driving Pintos and Hugos on the road..right? After all, you're eventually going to get into an accident...right?

Why drive a decent car with high reliability and safety records when it's just going to end up "totalled"...right?

Is it sinking in yet??? Hello???...is this thing on???

Carry the best, most reliable gun you can afford and shoot best! It's your life you are putting on the line.

Sheesh..let's save a few bucks because the cops "might" take it after it "saves" your life??

Good luck with your "pinto".

Maestro
January 11, 2003, 07:44 PM
Mr. Smith,
I think you are reading into my post exactly what you want it to say and not paying attention to what it says.I own custom guns,5 at the last count.So snobbery has nothing to do with it.Why are you wanting to push things to a higher tension level when it's not necessary.I own 1000.00 and 2000.00 firearms.And I never questioned your senses about anything you purchase.CZ makes excellent handguns which will do anything my custom 1911's will do.It seems unwise to me...I didn't say unwise to you...but unwise to me to carry them for my self-preservation.I asked simply if others feel the same way.Why all the emotion and flak?
Patriot,I don't consider a Pinto-to whatever comparison quite on par with the CZ-Sig comparison.Hello,are you there?Did that sink in?I asked a simple question looking to see if others may feel like I do.I received some good replies from others who do.I did not solicit or ask for opposing,disrespectful or degrading opinions from those who feel it is their duty to respond in such manner.Hello!Did that sink in?

Patriot
January 11, 2003, 07:50 PM
You are right...my post may have come across sarcastic.

So let me restate...OK?

Title of post:

"Isn't cheaper sometimes better?"

Reply:

"No"

Is that better??? Quick and to the point. No hidden subtones...my opinion, and only that.

rick458
January 11, 2003, 08:14 PM
I bought my Kimber as a knock around gun because the thought of a cop kicking my customized Colt down the street may lead to a needless ecalation of hostilities.
but the Kimber has proven reliable and very accurrate, I even think I might get a Glock for the car one day. maybe or perhaps just a Milspec as the Kimber is mighty nice as well now I have polished it up nice and shiny:cool:

Sean Smith
January 11, 2003, 08:36 PM
HINT: posts marked with :neener: and using the word "booty" probably aren't completely serious... :rolleyes:

cratz2
January 11, 2003, 09:10 PM
Well, as long as the gun or guns you decide to carry are 99.999% reliable with your choice of ammo, I guess it doesn't really make a difference. But a the same time, if you have a Commander sized Wilson or RRA, why not trust your life to your best gun? I'd be willing to bet that whatever disappears you'll be compensated for so carry the best.

I say that having carried a Makarov lately. :D

MJRW
January 11, 2003, 09:12 PM
I don't shoot my guns off in the air or randomly draw on people enough to worry about regular firearm cost losses to the PD for evidence. I know that sometimes things happen and things get confiscated, but I don't factor that in. I prefer to carry what I am comfortable with shooting and carrying and not worry about the cost of it gets confiscated.

Tropical Z
January 12, 2003, 01:08 PM
$140.00=Hi-Point compensated 9mm and tons of sweet shooting.
$340.00=Sistema POS
Enough said!

Blackhawk
January 12, 2003, 06:40 PM
Yes.

What's the parts count?

What are the parts made of?

The MORE parts, the LESS reliability.

The BETTER the materials, the BETTER the reliability.

The LESS parts, the LOWER the manufacturing cost.

Glocks are great guns with relatively few parts made of excellent materials, and they're relatively cheaper.

I wouldn't want to lose a tricked out 1911 to "evidence" any more than I'd want to lose a Kel-Tec, but odds are that I'd be carrying one I trusted completely.

Blackhawk
January 12, 2003, 08:03 PM
Yes.

What's the parts count?

What are the parts made of?

The MORE parts, the LESS reliability.

The BETTER the materials, the BETTER the reliability.

The LESS parts, the LOWER the manufacturing cost.

Glocks are great guns with relatively few parts made of excellent materials, and they're relatively cheaper.

I wouldn't want to lose a tricked out 1911 to "evidence" any more than I'd want to lose a Kel-Tec, but odds are that I'd be carrying one I trusted completely.

CWL
January 15, 2003, 12:43 AM
$140.00=Hi-Point compensated 9mm and tons of sweet shooting.
$340.00=Sistema POS

I never considered a Sistema to be a premium or expensive gun, in fact it is a much reworked gun probably built in the 1950's from 1927 machine parts. Best used to beat confessions out of peons in Argentina.

Ya should expand your experiences if you want to complain about "expensive" POS'!

Kahr carrier
January 15, 2003, 04:40 AM
Personally I dont consider cost on a weapon I might have to trust my life on,Though the idea of it getting kicked around in a police evidence room is repulsive.:(

JohnBT
January 15, 2003, 06:15 PM
No offense implied or intended to anyone. I like the CZ75 better than the Sig. A lot better.

In my mind the CZ is a $600 gun that just happens to sell for a lot less because of the economy in the Czech Republic and the exchange rate.

It's not cheap, it costs less. And mine has never failed to fire or eject in over two years. YMMV, but probably won't from what I've seen.

John

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