Need help identifying this rifle.


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DWS1117
July 31, 2003, 03:58 PM
A friend gave me this rifle. It looks like it may have been a kit judging by the finish on the stock. I might try to fix it up but, I am not sure yet. It will need a whole lot of work. Appears to have been butchered. It is probably beyond hope.

http://www.hunt101.com/img/053741-big.jpg

http://www.hunt101.com/img/053742.jpg

http://www.hunt101.com/img/053743.JPG

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Mike Irwin
July 31, 2003, 05:40 PM
My best guess?

One of the many foreign copies of the "Pennsylvania Long Rifle" that were coming in in the 1970s as the US rediscovered its Bicentennial heritage.

4v50 Gary
July 31, 2003, 06:18 PM
Concur with Mike. Note the foreend is actually a separate piece of wood that is separated from the rest of the stock by a brass band. That's customary for a lot of Spanish guns (I guess they could get more stock this way with less wastage).

Don't spend too much time working on it. It's meant to be a shooter and a good rifle for beginners.

BTW, check out the CVA "long rifles." Looks a lot like this one.

Dave Markowitz
July 31, 2003, 08:33 PM
Looks like a CVA longrifle built from a kit. Those locks aren't bad, although they ain't no Siler. If you want to learn gunsmithing this is something you wouldn't have to worry ruining.

DWS1117
August 1, 2003, 12:43 AM
Thanks for the help. Couple more questions. First does anyone know where parts for this gun can be bought? Seems like this may be the long term learning project as was suggested.

And second, What is a good rifle for a muzzleloading beginner? It is something I have wanted to get into. It just seems like a lot of fun. I want something that is fairly inexpensive. Maybe $200 or less. Would you suggest starting with flintlock or percussion cap?

4v50 Gary
August 1, 2003, 12:51 AM
What you got there (if it's yours) is a good gun to learn the basics of blackpowder rifle shooting. As for parts, what parts do you need? Want to do inlays? Put in a patchbox (I think most of those CVAs have a patchbox)? If it works, learn to shoot it and shoot it well.

BTW, go to any blackpowder shoot and there'll be sutlers selling parts. Dixiegunworks has plenty o' parts as does http://www.trackofthewolf.com or The Log Cabin Shop or October Country or a couple of dozen other vendors.

DWS1117
August 1, 2003, 01:35 AM
Thanks for the advice. Can you reccommend any books on the subject that are good for a begginer?

4v50 Gary
August 1, 2003, 07:09 PM
I've got the Lyman Blackpowder Handbook & Loading Manual. It's good and has a lot of data, but is organized by caliber rather than firearm.

The Gun Digest Blackpowder Loading Manual (3rd Ed) is also good and has a bit more things to read. For the CVA "Kentucky Rifle" it has the following info:

Caliber: 45
BBL: 33 1/2"
BBL dimensions: 7/8" across flats
Rate of Twist: 1:66 (strictly a round ball gun - 4v50 note)
Depth of Groove: .010"
Projectile: .440" 128 gr Speer Round Ball
Powder: GOI
Patch: .015 Ox-Yoke Precision Blue-striped
Lube: Young-County No. 103
Powder Measure: Treso 200
Powder Temp: 79 f.

Powder Powder MV ME Velocity Energy
volume weight fps fpe 100 yds 100 yds

40 FFFg 41.5 1561 693 882 221
50 FFFg 51.6 1767 888 981 274
50 FFg 50.2 1577 707 908 234
60 FFg 60.2 1754 875 973 269
70 FFg 70.1 1803 924 992 280
75 FFg 75.1 1856 979 1012 291

75 FFg maximum recommended load

My first gun is pretty close to yours and mine likes 40 grains FFFg for accuracy. Still have to do more testing.

swampsniper
August 2, 2003, 06:02 AM
There are two REAL important things to check BEFORE you load that rifle. I took one in to repair that had holes for forearm retaining screws drilled all the way into the bore. It also had very few engaged threads on the breechplug. New body parts are hard to find.

4v50 Gary
August 2, 2003, 12:19 PM
Good point. Most of those Spanish guns used an underlug that was silver soldered onto the bottom of the bbl. First make sure it's not loaded. Then you remove ramrod, tang screw and drive out the pins holding the fore-end to the bbl and then turn the gun upside down (muzzle down and with lock area at waist level). Tap the muzzle against you shoe and this should help "pop" the stock off from the bbl. Have a hand in position to catch the bbl when it pops off. This method avoids "peeling" or lifting the bbl off as you can damage the stock. Check the bbl to see if the underlugs are silver soldered on. If they are, the concern raised by swampsniper is moot. If the underlugs are inserted via dovetail cuts, look at the hole to see that it is in the underlug and not into the bbl. If it's in the bbl, shine a line into the hole and look through the muzzle to see if there's any light showing through.

My benchmate at my last class drilled through his bbl. :banghead: Our entire class was visited by the Gun Gremlin who made his home there.

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