December 25, 2002, 06:11 PM
I am SICK AND TIRED of sitting around reading these articles about JBT's knocking down the doors of people with "violent histories", of new firearms laws, and all that garbage.

What can I do to help the RKBA fight???

I'm not talking just join the NRA or write a letter.

What can I do above and beyond that???

An infuriated (But still happy to be here!!!)

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December 25, 2002, 06:38 PM
File a lawsuit LOL. Or win the lotto a big lotto and by yourself some politicians

December 25, 2002, 06:39 PM
'Bout time you showed up. Some of us were actually worried that you didn't get the invitation, while others were worried that you did! :D

"JBT"? :confused:

December 25, 2002, 06:46 PM
JBT: Jack-Booted Thug

I'd suggest educating other people about freedom and government, especially moderate fence-sitting shooters. The more people who realize that the current situation of terribly wrong, the more people available to help fix it, through voting or other less pleasant means.

Also, buy up things that look like they'll soon be illegal. Surplus ammo, .50BMG ammo, full-size magazines, semiauto pistols, "assault weapons", and a .50 BMG if you can afford it.

I'd also suggest starting to practice civil disobediance in response to some laws. IMO, going from 100% law-abiding citizen to "Molon labe!" gun confiscation rebel would be a very, very difficult transition. Getting used to disobeying the law now will ease that change, should it be necessary to make it.

December 25, 2002, 07:26 PM
Blackhawk, I'm disappointed! How long were you at TFL and you don't know "JBT"???

Were you guys really worried I wouldn't show up???


You love me...you REALLY love me!!! :D

December 25, 2002, 07:31 PM
Some ideas:

Join the GOA and the JPFO.

Buy guns and ammo. Buy lots of guns and ammo. This gives gun companies an incentive to keep making guns and ammo. :) Plus, it's more fun than activism, and gives you an incentive to keep doing the dreary bits that have to be done.

Take a friend shooting. Take lots of your friends shooting. Buy GOA and JPFO memberships for your friends when they first get started shooting.

Write to your legislators and the editor of your local paper. Yeah, it's not glamorous or terribly difficult, just tedious and ... well, a little embarrassing. Do it anyway. (Awhile back, I made a committment to write one letter a week for freedom. Broke my promise; turned out to be more like one letter a month on average. Lots of room for improvement there, but better than most manage to do. I tell you, this stuff is tedious.)

Visit your elected representatives at least once a year, in person. If possible, bring all your friends along. Otherwise, do it yourself. If possible, organize a large group of people to visit the Capitol at the same time. If not, go by yourself.

Pass out flyers when you visit the Capitol.

Join the Tyranny Response Team, if there is one in your area. If not, organize one yourself.

Take a look at the Five Minute Handbook for RKBA Activists (http://www.thefiringline.com/Misc/library/RKBA_handbook.html) for more ideas. It's a must read for people who care.

Then, when you get tired of doing all that -- do freedom. (http://www.doingfreedom.com/gen/1202/index.html)


Each act, each occasion, is worse than the last, but only a little worse. You wait for the next and the next. You wait for the one great shocking occasion, thinking that others, when such a shock comes, will join with you in resisting somehow. ...So you wait, and you wait. But the one great shocking occasion, when tens or hundreds or thousands will join with you, never comes. ... And one day, too late, your principles, if you were ever sensible of them, all rush in upon you. The burden of self deception has grown too heavy .... You see what you are, what you have done, or, more accurately, what you haven't done (for that was all that was required of most of us: that we do nothing). -- Milton Mayer, writing about Nazi Germany in They Thought They Were Free

December 25, 2002, 07:58 PM

Referring to LEOs of any stripe in the U.S. as jack booted thugs is still quite offensive, especially by those barely old enough to vote. :)

Were you guys really worried I wouldn't show up??? Naw, just that you might have gotten lost on the mean streets of your posh burb....

You love me...you REALLY love me!!! That's pathetic, really, really pathetic.... :D

December 25, 2002, 08:02 PM
Blackhawk: I do apologise if I have offended anyone, but these are the cops I was referring to: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=218

Scary stuff man, scary stuff...

December 25, 2002, 08:28 PM
If we don't win it in the courts the next step will be the streets. I don't want that so file suit. Thats what I would be doing pleanty of if I had a few million to spare. IMHO..

December 25, 2002, 09:11 PM
I knew it was too good to be true.

Ed Brunner
December 25, 2002, 09:31 PM
In my semi-humble opinion, the best thing the average shooter can do is try to convert non-shooters.

December 25, 2002, 09:45 PM
drjones, Don't worry about the JBT comments. As a Deputy Sheriff I'm not the least bit offended. Some of those alphabet agency guys qualify completely. I've about decided the best solution to the problem is to cut off ********** and let it drift off to China. The rest of the USA is salvageable. We have to get rid of ********** before it infects too many more states.


December 25, 2002, 09:49 PM
Blackhawk - While it is certainly unjust to generalize American LEOs as jack-booted thugs, refusing to recognize that some individuals truly are such thugs is shortsighted. There are way too many thuggish LEO exploits to not seriously and honestly consider them.

December 25, 2002, 10:01 PM
To all, ESP. LEO's:

I want to make clear that I have nothing but the utmost respect, concern, and gratitude for any and all in the LE field.

To put your life on the line every single day (all too often for people who truly hate you) is incredibly commendable.

However, thanks to a lot of news stories and other info I've learned from TFL, I have just a bit more suspicion of LEO's (and govt) in general. I do not think that is a bad thing. Blind faith and trust are a bad thing.

On a one-to-one, everyday basis, I am nothing but polite, cooperative, and friendly. I have never experienced anything but that in return in my dealings with the law. I have always been, and always will be, respectful of officers.

Just for clarity's sake...

December 25, 2002, 11:44 PM
Originally posted by Ed Brunner
In my semi-humble opinion, the best thing the average shooter can do is try to convert non-shooters.

That's my approach; at least part of it anyway.

What we often forget is that the majority of people who don't own guns don't have a clue about all the restrictions that are already in place. When they hear some pol talking about "reasonable gun controls", it actually does sound reasonable because they think its the only one.

Once you get someone interested in shooting, even occassionally, they find out what it's really like and the light comes on quick.

There are a lot of people who don't own guns but still support the RKBA. We have to find them and let them know how that right is being taken away from them.

Just remember, every gun you buy is one more "they" will have to worry about later.

4v50 Gary
December 26, 2002, 12:18 AM
Not just convert antis and neutral to pro-Second Amendment, but be politically active and polite when you do. Write, phone, visit. All the time.

Al Norris
December 26, 2002, 12:42 AM
Go back and read Pax's sig. I mean really read it. Till you totally understand the concept forwards and backwards. Then ask yourself, not where do you draw the line but when.

December 26, 2002, 12:50 AM
Just remember, every gun you buy is one more "they" will have to worry about later.


"I'm strangely comfortable with that..." :D

Jim March
December 26, 2002, 01:01 AM

Without knowing your state, and in some cases county and city, I can't properly advise you in any detail.

In general, you need to be on the mailing lists for at least two state-level RKBA organizations and/or state-specific general lists to have even clue #1 about what's going on locally. You can do more on a local level than you can on the Fed.

Every state has at least one RKBA organization. Some have MANY more. Do you know the orgs for your state? Have you been to their websites, EMailed the admins and found out the local mailing lists they use?

If you haven't done that, you haven't really started.

December 26, 2002, 01:04 AM
Jim: I'm in CA, like you!

Jim March
December 26, 2002, 01:12 AM
OK. Your city and county matters too. One of the BEST things you can do is to pressure 'em for a CCW permit (assuming clean background, age 21+).

First, you should be on the CA-Firearms mailing list:

http://www.ninehundred.com/~equalccw/mailing.html (oh ya, I got a pointer to TFL there, gotta change that!)

Second, hook up with your local NRA Member's Council chapter:


Don't let all the NRA bashing fool with your head - the MC system in this state is well developed and does a lot of good work.

If you don't want to talk about where you live online, drop me EMail at jmarch@prodigy.net - I am *very* careful with personal info.

December 26, 2002, 04:19 PM
Get out of the PRK and that vein in your head will go down. No point in letting it explode!

Jim Diver
December 26, 2002, 06:19 PM
I am starting to be disenchanted with the local NRA MCs. Little happens except promoting the local RNC canidates. People refuse to go head to head with the opposition. Nothing happens unless the NRA gives its all mighty blessing... (of course by the time you know something is going down, there is no time to get the priests to talk to the oracle.)

MCs would be more effective if they left the NRA and took action on thier own.

December 26, 2002, 10:54 PM
Ok, what can a 15 year old guy do for freedom and the RKBA?


December 27, 2002, 01:20 AM
Turn 16, then 17, etc., all without screwing up so he'll be equipped and educated better than his peers and able to lead the debates instead of being on the sidelines listening to a bunch of ignorant ninnies making noise plus being able to discern pap and crap from sound reasoning.

Glad you made it here! Been looking for you.... :D

December 27, 2002, 01:26 AM
I'm for finding what office the Dept of Justice swat team meets in on fisherman's wharf and putting it under survalence. Thats what I call the beginning of direct action.:mad:

December 27, 2002, 05:06 AM

A 15 year old person could consider getting involved with the shooting sports, perhaps through a local gun club. Many gun clubs are very keen on sponsoring young people in shooting sports activity and competition. One might also consider getting their friends involved in those same activities.

Keep your grade point average up and don't become so involved as to have your schooling suffer. Also, be aware the shooting sports and RKBA are not a favorite subject with some people. Sometimes a low profile is appropriate, especially when young.

Good to see you here.


Glock Glockler
December 27, 2002, 10:12 AM
I took this from a post I made at TFL a while ago, so is it plagarism if I steel it from myself?

"Gun control is becomming a bad political issue for politicians, so we have to capitalize on that. If the sniper shootings had happened during the Clinton administration, there would have been massive calls for gun control, but that hasn't happened. I think the combination of Bush in office and 911 have put a halt in the agenda of the gun grabbers, since they don't have a great friend in the oval office and we had a national tragedy that showed people that they're living in a fantasy world if they think the govt will protect them.

What we have to do is simply recruit 3 people in the next year who will take an active role in protecting the 2nd Amendment by voting appropriately, calling politicians before a vote to tell them what to do, and by recruiting others. They do not necessarily have to be into guns in order to do this, but they they do have to be one of us ideologically.

Imagine that there are 30 Million 2nd Amendment activists in the US. If they recruited 3 people in the next year we'd then have 120 million, within another year we'd run out of population to be pro-RKBA. It might not be glamarous but it'll be effective.

Step #1 is to get people that are pro-RKBA to actually get off their behinds and take part. You'd be surprised how many of us just complain a lot and do nothing. Get them to take action.

Step #2 is to reach those that are gun owners but who don't care about RKBA or are even a bit pro-gun control. These types can probably be the most frustrating people to deal with. When I meet a gun owner who says that they support moderate gun control I want to beat them with a folding chair, but we have to hold our tempers and go to work. They already own a gun so there is fertile ground to work with, but they might be the type that think it's ok for them to own guns but they don't want everyone else owning one. The key to these people is to convince them that the gun grabbers will not be so kind, and to point out the historical facts that gun control will harm them as well.

Step #3 is to go after those that are demographically the core of the Democratic party's support: teachers, union people, women, minorities, etc. When there begins to be a division in the Democratic party between those that are pro-RKBA and the antis, there will be a fear that many Democrats might actually vore Republican. Between the threat of the Republicans and the threat of internal division, the party leadership will drop gun control in order to maintain political viability. Parachute behind their lines and destroy them from within.

Step #4 is to go after the Republicans. Just because the Republicans have historically been nominally pro-RKBA, it doesn't mean that the average Republican will be so, and that the party leadership might not want to support gun control in order to gain some fence-sitter's vote. This will also be more fertile ground to work with, so it shouldn't be too hard, but we must remember to keep our side strong and unified. A chain is only as strong as it's weakest link.

Step #5 is to go after the young. As this is going to be a multi-generational fight, raising the next generation to be pro-RKBA is essential. I recommend that you contact the people in charge of your range and see if you can arrange a reserved session at the range for your local boy scout troop to come and learn gun safety, with which I'm sure they can earn a merit badge or two. Not only will we targeting the best of our youth but we will also be getting the hidden benefit of targeting their parents as well.

Contact the troop leadership and tell them we want to promote firearms saftey and want to give the troop a free session. Before the event takes place, tell them that you want some extra safety at the event, and you'd like the troop leadership and any parents of the scouts to come to a saftey session, where you can show them the basics. Some of them will probably get into it also. The Boy Scouts are the best of our youth and it is essential that we get the best of society on our side. That being said, we should do the same thing with the Girl Scouts. Just because guns have raditionally been boy's toys doesn't mean we should exclude women, actually, since they have the most to loose from gun control we should target them more.

We want to make the experience as positive as possible, so having nice tempered instructors is needed, and cookies and juice for everyone afterwards is a great touch. It would also be good if the gun used were a single shot 22 rifle and a 22 relvolver and maybe a semi. The relvolver will be easiest to use, but it would also be a good idea if they knew how safely handle a semi and how to check if it's loaded.

Step #6 is to plant seeds of evil. By this I mean making small comments here and there to plant an idea in someone's head. This could be something as simple as saying "lovely, more government BS" when they do something stupid. This would be low intensity, low resource method of creating a meme. The more of these seeds that are planted the better off we are.

It's not pretty but it will bear much fruit if we all put forth the effort. If anyone has any other additional steps or suggestions to make, feel free."

Jim Diver
December 28, 2002, 08:25 PM

Become an NRA Certified Apprentice Instructor. Apprentice Ratings are available to young people who wish to understudy a certified instructor in preparation for more advanced ratings. The apprentice instructor will be chosen by an NRA Certified Instructor from select individuals. These individuals must be of the emotional maturity necessary to handle such a position. In addition, they must have attended and successfully completed an NRA Basic Firearm Training Course in their chosen area of specialization (13 - 17 years of age).


December 28, 2002, 09:11 PM
Originally posted by nsf003
Ok, what can a 15 year old guy do for freedom and the RKBA?

nsf Study hard, learn the constitution/bill of rights, stay out of trouble(drugs/crime) and become active in the shooting sports. Do not be afraid to state your beliefs, but be prepared to back them up with knowledge. Be an example to others by not following the herd when you know it is not right. Calmly challenge political correctness by asking the simple question, "why would it make us safer, freerer,more equal, fairer etc.". Most of all, enjoy yourself, you are 15! :)

Capital Punishment
December 28, 2002, 09:25 PM
Originally posted by nsf003
Ok, what can a 15 year old guy do for freedom and the RKBA?


Im 15 also.

What everyone else said! Learn!

Also, take friends to the range. (DONT FORGET the 4 rules.....teach them that too, make sure they know it before you let them set hands on a gun, make sure they know it enough to recite all 4.)

Learn about it. Learn why the 43X more likely to kill a family member thing is full of holes. THen convince others.

Glock Glockler
December 28, 2002, 10:00 PM
Whoa! I didn't realize you guys were so young, ok, that changes things a wee bit.

One of the best things I can recommend is to 1) find a way you can become more familiarized with shooting. Perhaps you can get a Big Brother or someone at the range who'll be willing to take you under his wing. The more you know about guns and how they work, the better you'll be able to refute BS that anti-programmed muppets will try to throw at you and others.

It would also be swell if you could get others your age interested in shooting. When people are into something, they know about it in and out and they will be passionate about it's defense. I was always pro-RKBA, even before I was a shooter, but it was only after I became a shooter that I became an RKBA activist. I doubt I'm that unique in that regard.

To recap, try to get more versed in shooting and freedom issues, and try to get any of your friends to join you.

December 28, 2002, 11:28 PM
I've converted my whole family into being pro RKBA, I'm going to take them all shooting and will train them all in the use of handguns for defense and target shooting. I just got a 22 pistol, and that will help. My 357 was just too heavy for my mom and sister. My dad didn't like the recoil. He is a semi man anyway. I hope, by the end of next summer, there will be 3 more proficiant shooters and maybe they will even try to convert people like I do.

Ever since my english class speech about gun control, no one seems to be anti gun, and if they are, they don't say anything around me.


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