a plain and simple question


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piccolo
December 25, 2002, 07:39 PM
If this thread turns into a major flaming ruckus, I'll delete it instantly.

I'm not a troll from DU. Please do not try read anything into this at all. It's just a plain and simple question. I'm curious.

I wonder why the shooting sports seem to be, for the most part, a white thing; Why don't more minorities shoot?

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Schuey2002
December 25, 2002, 07:52 PM
** [Self - edited ] **

I'm man enough to know when I've made a mistake.
My sincere apologies. :o :o

Spackler
December 25, 2002, 07:59 PM
Originally posted by Schuey2002
Economics...
It's not cheap to get into the high end shooting sports.. Race guns,super primo ammo,shooting gear,costs of travel and all the rest can run into some serious mullah..

*** does that mean? Only white people have enough money to get info shooting sports?

Man, if you really feel that way, you are out of your mind.

Blackhawk
December 25, 2002, 08:02 PM
I wonder why the shooting sports seem to be, for the most part, a white thing; Why don't more minorities shoot? You've heard of Black Man With a Gun, haven't you? Check it out at http://www.blackmanwithagun.com/

The gun control mania started when some racists became afraid that if Blacks could defend themselves with guns, some of them would be hurt or killed as they went about their lynchings and other dirty deeds.

Stereotypes grow out of fear and prejudiced blather, and just what do you think a bigoted LEO is liable to do upon discovering the Black man he's hassling has a gun?

Jim March in CA has done much to show how gun control laws are racist, and if none of his fine work has made it here yet, check out TFL's archives to at least get Jim's website URL. Or maybe somebody who knows it can post it here.

==============
Edited to add:

This is Jim's website URL: http://www.equalccw.com

manwithoutahome
December 25, 2002, 08:03 PM
Because minorities will follow the naacp and others like them. They say that being a gun owner or such is "bad" and you shouldn't do it and others follow.

It's not economics, it's because they are "told to do what they are told" and dislike that which would have given freedom allot sooner then they got it and would have allowed many a folk in Germany live to tell the tale of what happened.

Because minories follow that is what is told them to follow and do not think on their own. Which they allow their own "saviors" to take from them what they need most, and what they have fought so hard to gain.

If you're talking Black folk, their "organization" has fooled them the most. All gun control laws started to keep Blacks from owning or even thinking of owning guns. Yet they, their organiztion, supports this idea in this day and age.

And they, this organization, will march upon many a land and speak into many an ear to take away the Rights that you and yours have fought so hard to gain, yet they will tell you it's the "right thing to do" or "is best for you as a race". All it does it keep on oppressing you and your race because they, your own people, are stating that you don't deserve the Rights you fought so hard to get.

Ain't that the shoot? Your own people, making it a "bad thing" and then saying that it's everyone elses fault for the lack of education that they don't wish you to have.

Brother, I would proudly have you in the firing line right next to me as I would have any other gun owner that I know.

Fight for what you believe, but know what you've fought for and gained.

MWAH

TexasFred
December 25, 2002, 08:13 PM
i don't know how to respond to the whole racial economic idea, seeing as there are many well off minorities out there. And the fact that you don't have to take out a second mortgage or anything to get into shooting. Me being a minority, I feel that the general public views a minority with a gun as someone looking for trouble. it could be an african american, or hispanic, or asian, or indian but the thing is that they wouldn't be viewed the same as a caucasian with with a gun. This is not to say that there arn't some out there. But the majority usually tend to stay away from shooting sports. And very few even go to shooting ranges for general practice. Lets face it, most probably don't own a gun legally much less have a CCW license. But all this stems from growing up to fear and sometimes hate law enforcement of government. Well thats my two cents.....or i could be talking out of my ass!

Schuey2002
December 25, 2002, 08:14 PM
*** does that mean? Only white people have enough money to get info shooting sports?
I wasn't at all referring to racism or a Black and White thing..
I apologize if you read it that way.. I misread what he was asking and shouldn't have answered this thread..

No, I'm not implying in anyway,shape or form that "only whites have money"... ;)

Redlg155
December 25, 2002, 08:22 PM
Economic Issues? I think not. I believe it can be traced back how the average individual is raised as a child, no matter what the race.

An example I will use is the Military. Everyone who has ever served our country has had Minorities in leadership positions over them, in both Officer and Enlisted ranks. The pay scale is exactly the same regardless of race, nationality or sex. Yet if you polled the average military company or batallion you would probably see more white than black gun owners throughout the ranks.

So it is not economic. To me it all boils down to how you were raised. If you came from a family that hunted, fished and owned guns, the chances are pretty good you will do the same.

I should know. I'm a minority (Thai). My stepfather who is black raised me from 2 years old. We are both very active hunters and gunowners and both members of the NRA. I grew up shooting, hunting, fishing and owning guns.

Good SHooting
RED

Mike Irwin
December 25, 2002, 09:22 PM
It seems that the sports where the most minorities are represented are the shotgunning sports -- skeet, trap, sporting clays.

I frequently see blacks and hispanics shooting along side of whites at Bull Run in Virginia (shotgun), but not very often at the NRA Range. Most of the blacks I see at the NRA Range are police, security, or military.

It seems that, from my observations, asians are more into the shooting sports than other ethnic groups.

With blacks I really think that some of it is perception. Too, until fairly recently it was difficult for blacks in some areas of the United States to obtain firearms easily and without attracting unwanted attention.

Preacherman
December 25, 2002, 10:52 PM
Perhaps I can bring a different perspective into the debate. I'm a chaplain at a maximum-security Federal penitentiary, where some three-fifths of the inmates are Black. I talk often to inmates and their families about crime, firearms, etc., trying to learn from them (and hopefully gather material for use in RKBA and other political debates).

It seems to me that most Black people in inner-city areas grow up surrounded by criminal elements who misuse firearms at the drop of a hat (and drop it themselves if no-one else will!). As a result, the "bad-hat brigade" learn that firearms are a means to make others do your will, and are indispensable tools of the bad guy's trade. The good guys grow up in fear of the bad guys with firearms: and since they don't want to blame the problems on folks of their own race/kind/neighborhood, they transfer the negative feelings to the instruments involved - firearms. I think this is perhaps the main reason why many Black people simply reject firearms as the root of all evil.

I'm sure this explanation doesn't hold good for everyone: but for those from inner-city neighborhoods and ghettoes, I think it's probably fairly accurate, to judge from the reactions of literally hundreds of inmates and their families to whom I've spoken over more than five years. I hasten to add that I have shot with many Black gun-owners, who are not afflicted by this problem, and in talking with them, they largely confirm what I suspect to be at the root of things. Even Black LEO's, with whom I associate daily, agree on this as a likely cause of the problem - they have all sorts of difficulties explaining their own association with firearms to their families and friends in their communities, they tell me.

I'd really appreciate any additional input that others can provide.

Shmackey
December 25, 2002, 10:57 PM
Because in this country, a white person with a gun is a crazy gun wacko, and a black person with a gun is a criminal.

That's the stereotype, plain and simple. You and I (I hope) know better, on both counts.

Blackhawk
December 26, 2002, 01:13 AM
Preacherman,

Thanks for your perspective. It makes a lot of sense.

dd-b
December 26, 2002, 01:18 AM
Originally posted by Redlg155
Economic Issues? I think not. I believe it can be traced back how the average individual is raised as a child, no matter what the race.

An example I will use is the Military. Everyone who has ever served our country has had Minorities in leadership positions over them, in both Officer and Enlisted ranks. The pay scale is exactly the same regardless of race, nationality or sex. Yet if you polled the average military company or batallion you would probably see more white than black gun owners throughout the ranks.


Bit short-sighted there. Before 1948 the US military was legally segregated, so LOTS of people who have served our country have never seen a Negro officer (there were some, but not commanding white outfits very often).

For those who forget, Eisenhower integrated the military by order of the commander in chief in 1948, over a tremendous amount of protest. Many people inside and outside of the military predicted it would lead to the immediate death of the nation, pretty much.

Instead, it worked pretty darned well. For years the military was the only place in America where whites routinely took orders from blacks, and neither of them gave it a second though.

Blackhawk
December 26, 2002, 01:23 AM
For those who forget, Eisenhower integrated the military by order of the commander in chief in 1948, over a tremendous amount of protest. Many people inside and outside of the military predicted it would lead to the immediate death of the nation, pretty much. Except it was President Harry S Truman who integrated the military. Don't think we can credit Ike with that. :D

Preacherman
December 26, 2002, 01:29 AM
Blackhawk, Eisenhower was the military's head honcho under Truman, and thus, as dd-b points out, he carried out the integration "by order of the commander in chief" - Truman.

Schuey2002
December 26, 2002, 01:30 AM
Preacherman, Thanks for your perspective. It makes a lot of sense. Megga Ditto.
It's always nice when the Father chimes in..

I'm still pulling my tootsies out of my mouth. :o :o

4v50 Gary
December 26, 2002, 01:32 AM
I see plenty of minorities shoot including Hispanics and Asians. At the range where I'm a member, we've plenty of minorities and the only real division is when we shoot in our respective shooting teams against one another. The division of the teams is generally according to the club they belong to and not along racial lines. We shoot for bacon, linguicia and cash.

BTW, over at TFL, we had two very popular members who are minorities: Skunkabilly and twoblink. College and shooting buddies, they are both Chinese. We also had Ken Blanchard, aka: Blackmanwithagun.

If you really want to see a shooting sport with very few minorities, go to a blackpowder shoot. This is not a condemnation of the blackpowder community and I think they're the friendliest of anybody within the shooting community. Even at the NMLRA National Match in Friendship, IN, I see very few there and those who are there are treated like anybody else. Everyone has fun there (and go broke from all the stuff you can buy there).

I don't think it's money or anything to do with what somebody told them to do. Rather, it's a matter of having the interest and sometimes a friend/acquaintence who is interested and is willing to show them the ropes. Bottom line, the greater the # of shooters, the stronger we are as a voting block. Let's take back America.

Blackhawk
December 26, 2002, 02:13 AM
Blackhawk, Eisenhower was the military's head honcho under Truman, and thus, as dd-b points out, he carried out the integration "by order of the commander in chief" - Truman. Which is like saying Col. Tibbets ended WWII by A-bombing Hiroshima. He was just following orders.

Military men get medals for following orders, and as Truman's desk ornament said "The buck stops here." The credit and blame is on the man with the power to give the orders, and that was Truman.

MacArthur didn't like taking orders from Truman, and he was rightly fired.

If I'd gotten credit for all the orders I successfully carried out, I'd have a bigger ego problem than the one I have, but the fact is, they weren't my idea and I didn't have the authority to take the actions because I was just following orders so I get no credit. But if they were bogus or bungled, I wouldn't have faced the consequences either.

Ike was just a military man following orders. Truman gets the credit -- all of it -- for integrating the armed forces of the U.S.

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