1700s era weapons Vs Kevlar


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kannonfyre
September 6, 2003, 11:40 AM
I'm not too sure if this is the right section to bring this up but here goes....

A lot has been said about the resistance of various levels of body armor vs contemporary ammo however, does anyone have any idea how NIJ certified class IIA armor would perform against a point blank blast from a flintlock pistol? Or how well a class II vest can stand up to being shot by a brown bess musket from 4 feet away?

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Mike Irwin
September 6, 2003, 03:32 PM
I'd say it would likely perform extremely well.

The way to penetrate kevlar is to concentrate a LOT of force into a small frontal area.

That's why small caliber, but high velocity bullets, like those from the 7.62 Tokarev round, will penetrate most vests very handily.

Most muzzle loaders use soft lead bullets with very rounded profiles. That's pretty much a perfect projectile for a vest to stop.

Redlg155
September 7, 2003, 03:02 AM
does anyone have any idea how NIJ certified class IIA armor would perform against a point blank blast from a flintlock pistol?

.2 Type II-A (Lower Velocity 357 Magnum; 9 mm)

This armor protects against 357 Magnum jacketed soft point bullets, with nominal masses of 10.2 g (158 gr) impacting at a velocity of 381 m (1250 ft) per second or less, and 9 mm full metal jacketed bullets, with nominal masses of 8.0 g (124 gr) impacting at a velocity of 332 m (1090 ft) per second or less. It also provides protection against threats such as 45 Auto., 38 Special +P and some other factory loads in caliber 357 Magnum and 9 mm, as well as the threats mentioned in section 2.1.


58 cal. Pistol
11" barrel
.570 ball – 300 gr.
70 gr. FFFG
MV =1208 ft/sec.
ME = 972 ft. lbs.

.54 cal. Pistol
11” barrel
.535 ball – 240 gr.
60 gr. FFFG
MV 1120 ft/sec.
ME = 663 ft. lbs.

.45 cal. Pistol
11” barrel
.445 ball – 130 gr.
.50 gr. FFFG
MV = 1100 ft/sec.
ME= 349 ft. lbs.


Not listed are the 36 cal pistols. I also suspect that the above loads are rather healthy for a pistol.
Source for Pistol Data http://www.kellydickey.com/blackpowderclub/nearmisses/2000/april2000/nearmisses0400.htm

Or how well a class II vest can stand up to being shot by a brown bess musket from 4 feet away?

I've done a small bit of searching for the Brown Bess loads and didn't come up with much. They do however have a .75 cal bore which is equivalent to the 12 GA. I'm at a loss as to what velocites they produced, but I would venture to say they were close to our modern 12 GA slug. In this case you would need the higher protection value of a Type III.

.3 Type II (Higher Velocity 357 Magnum; 9 mm)

This armor protects against 357 Magnum jacketed soft point bullets, with nominal masses of 10.2 g (158 gr) impacting at a velocity of 425 m (1395 ft) per second or less, and 9 mm full jacketed bullets, with nominal masses of 8.0 g (124 gr) impacting at a velocity of 358 m (1175 ft) per second or less. It also provides protection against most other factory loads in caliber 357 Magnum and 9 mm, as well as the threats mentioned in sections 2.1 and 2.2.

[2.5 Type III ( High-Powered Rifle)

This armor protects against 7.62 mm full metal jacketed bullets (U.S. military designation M80), with nominal masses of 9.7 g (150 gr) impacting at a velocity of 838 m (2750 ft) per second or less. It also provides protection against threats such as 223 Remington (5.56 mm FMJ), 30 Carbine FMJ, and 12 gauge rifled slug, as well as the threats mentioned in sections 2.1 through 2.4.



Source. http://www.nlectc.org/txtfiles/BodyArmorStd/NIJSTD010103.html

Good Shooting
Red

4v50 Gary
September 7, 2003, 12:27 PM
A modern Kevlar vest would work darn good :) - until the wearer got stuck with the bayonet. :( Cartridge boxes were originally small affairs - perhaps 9 cartridges. It got larger during the French-Indian War. 20 rounds. Most of the time, a few volleys would be exchanged and then the bayonet came into play.

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