7.5 Swiss loading info?


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Don Gwinn
December 21, 2002, 02:56 PM
Been playing with my K31 a bit lately, and I'd like to get into the 7.5 Swiss business. I think I found dies, but I'm a bit at a loss for slugs and loading info.

I remember from a few months back that 7.5 is the same as some common American caliber, but I can't think which one. Pretty sure I can find that one again.

Does anybody out there load 7.5 Swiss? Can you advise me on what a safe starting load would be, and which powders have given you the best results?

I'm not really interested in the upper ranges or maximums, as I'm really only loading my own to save money and find the most accurate load. Unless I have to push the speed hard to get the best accuracy, I don't care about speed.

This will be my first experience loading rifle cartridges; I learned on .45 acp, which is pretty forgiving. You might say I'm a bit nervous.

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Johnny Guest
December 21, 2002, 11:27 PM
Good to see you here, too.

This may well be a case of the blind leading the blind. An old college pal talked me into getting on board the K-31 bandwagon with him, and I must admit, it's kinda fun. So, John and I went partners on a set of dies and some brass. I have NOT yet handloaded a single round, though.

1. The Hornady Handbood of Cartridge Reloading. Fourth Edition, Vol. 1, has a section on the 7.5 Swiss--pp. 304--308. It looks as if there's no problem working up some loads that would equal and possibly exceed the .308 Win (7.62x51 mm.)

2. The bullets used, regardless of the 7.5 designation, are the very common .308" bullets (7.62 mm) used in .30'06, .308, .30-30, .300 mags (all) and several others. I'll probably start out with the 165 gr bullets, most likely Sierra.

3. Lots of interesting information and discussion to be found at theSwiss Rifle Forum, at
http://pub125.ezboard.com/fcollectorguns35625frm1
It also has links to a couple of other good sources.

4. Do you have a stock of boxer-primed brass. I gather that, for some time, about the only type readily available was Norma brass--Very expensive as loaded ammo, and difficult to locate as Norma empty brass. Hornady/Frontier is now marketing both empty brass and loaded ammo. still not cheap, but less expensive than Norma.

5. I have only scratched the surface of this interesting rifle and cartridge. Maybe several of us will learn together. ;)

Best,
Johnny

Steve Smith
December 22, 2002, 11:12 PM
Couldn't start with something easy like .45 acp or .308, huh?

Don Gwinn
December 23, 2002, 11:03 AM
I DID start with .45! ;)
Now I want to shoot my Swiss Watch, but ammo is expensive.

I do have a small stock of Portuguese INDEP ammunition, which is Boxer primed. The trade off is that INDEP is Boxer but inaccurate compared to GP11. Swiss GP11 is supposed to be fantastic stuff, but is Berdan primed. Once I shoot up the INDEP, I'll have boxer brass ready to go.

Thanks for the heads up on the Hornady book. Apparently Sierra also has data on the 7.5x55, but the only manual I had handy was a Speer. Have to pick up the other two, which is no big deal 'cause I'll surely need them for something else sooner or later.

Lee dies are cheap and easily available, so that's no problem.

And I found what looks like a fantastic resource:
http://www.stevespages.com

He has all kinds of info, and if you go to calibers, then .308, you can find 7.5 Swiss loads with different powders for several bullet weights.

Gewehr98
December 24, 2002, 02:36 PM
Glad to see familiar faces!

Don, PM me and I'll send you what I've worked up for my M1911 Schmidt-Rubin. You should have no problem loading for your K-31, once you find a good source of boxer-primed brass. As it turns out, Federal is supposed to be making a big lot of the stuff fairly soon.

Your K-31 will shine with handloads. I've settled on 168gr Sierra MatchKings with my rifle, IMR4895 powder, and Norma brass. 175gr MatchKings aren't a slouch in the accuracy department, either.

Gewehr98
December 24, 2002, 02:40 PM
Pierre over at the swissrifles.com forum has a lot of good info regarding all variants of the Swiss Schmidt-Rubin.

Inspector Callahan
December 24, 2002, 03:20 PM
Great thread. :)

Watchman
December 24, 2002, 03:33 PM
Gewehr98...

Snce Ive got bitten by the Misurp bug, I too have been looking for some decent loads.

That is one accuate rifle with the swiss match but there has got to be a cheaper way !

Would you mind PMing me with your load data also ?

I was told that one could use .284 brass, but I cant even locate any of that...

Thanks !

Gewehr98
December 24, 2002, 03:48 PM
Gives folks a good look at the Microsoft Access load database I use, too:

http://mauser98.com/swissload.jpg

Gewehr98
December 24, 2002, 04:04 PM
It would appear my Geocities/Yahoo webserver is having trouble transmitting images larger than 100K right now.

Regardless, the load I worked for my 1911 Schmidt-Rubin was 42.0 grains of IMR4895, Winchester Large Rifle primers, Norma 7.5x55 brass, 168gr MatchKings seated out to 3.05" OAL. Not a real barn-burner in the velocity world, but it shoots quite comfortably in the old girl, and is easy on the expensive brass.

Watchman
December 24, 2002, 04:08 PM
Thankyou my friend. Good to see you on this board.:D

Johnny Guest
December 25, 2002, 02:16 AM
Thanks for the load - - -I'll be trying that one out.

Is the MS database a pre-fab or did you set it up yourself? I'd like to have that or something similar to store my load data. My notebooks and marginal noted in load manuals are looking pretty ratty! ;)

Best,
Johnny

Gewehr98
December 25, 2002, 02:20 AM
And anybody else who wants to use their investment in Bill Gate's fortune for load data logging. I can send it email to whoever requests.

I didn't build it. I did modify it a goodly amount, but a friend of mine when I was stationed back in ********** came up with it. It's been a part of my reloading room's setup ever since. (Yup, I even set up a dedicated computer in there for the purpose of reading TFL, running Load From A Disk, Sierra's Infinity software, gun inventory spreadsheet, and this Access reloading database. Wife says I need more daylight...)

Gary H
December 25, 2002, 12:18 PM
Haven't managed a useful freebee since I was three years old. Still have the train set and my fiftieth is next month...ahhhg

I haven't shot my K31, because I have yet to shoot my two .308's. Time willing, I will be reloading for the K31.

Heard that Starline would be making brass. Has anyone seen the Starline 7.5 Swiss?

Email: contax@earthlink.net

THANKS>>>> Gary

Gewehr98
December 25, 2002, 12:33 PM
Check your email. 700+ K, hope Earthlink will let it go through.

If there's enough interest, perhaps I can set up the file on a file server somewhere?

Gewehr98
December 25, 2002, 12:36 PM
Forgot to add, Johnny, you have email, too.

;)

Gary H
December 25, 2002, 01:06 PM
Gewehr98

In this age of security, my Email program, Outlook, won't allow .mbd files to be received as an attachment. I suspect that others will be in the same boat. If you can resend as a .txt, then I can change it when saving.

I really appreciate the program. It will relieve me of a much less agreeable solution. Also, should many folks want the program, I'll be happy to help with the distribution. Almost like a phone tree.

Gewehr98
December 25, 2002, 01:10 PM
I can make it into a ZIP file, which would save on transmission space, and Outlook shouldn't have a conniption, right? Let me know.

Gary H
December 25, 2002, 01:19 PM
My Outlook should not have any problem with a zip file downloaded from someone smart enough to spell koniptionnn.

Gewehr98
December 25, 2002, 01:46 PM
I learned how to spell conniption from a cartoon in a copy of Smithsonian Magazine:

http://mauser98.com/conniption.jpg

Check your email again, the file should be there!

Johnny Guest
December 26, 2002, 11:11 PM
Much obliged. Gonna have someone else help me with extraction and loading.

You wrote: " learned how to spell conniption from a cartoon in a copy of Smithsonian Magazine . . . ."

What? You never followed the cartoon adventures of "Rick O'Shay" and friends, set around Conniption, Montana? Cartoonist Stan Lynde did it for many years. Beautifully drawn guns. Lynde is/was a firearms enthusiast and threw in a LOT of pro RKBA stuff.

thanks again - - -

Gary H - - - I didn't think Star Line made rifle brass except for a couple of black powder numbers. I'd like to learn I'm wrong about that.

Johnny

444
December 26, 2002, 11:25 PM
Does anyone know the numbers on the standard Swiss service load ?

I also own two K31s that I seldom shoot and haven't gotten around to loading for yet. Which is a shame since they are really nice rifles. This thread is going to motivate me to take one out in a day or two. I have a small stockpile of ammo. Norma, and Swiss milsurp. I would love to get a few hundred brass and a set of dies. I never bothered with the dies because there was no brass (actually very little brass).

Don Gwinn
December 27, 2002, 11:24 AM
I've never tried the .284 brass trick (obviously, since I haven't done any loading for this caliber) but I have heard that the rim is not quite as large or robust as the 7.5x55. It's safe, but extraction can be a problem with the .284 cases. I got the impression that this was a stopgap when it was very hard to find the imported Swiss and Portuguese ammo.

If either Starline or Federal makes brass, I will certainly buy some. I don't have much of the INDEP, and although it's cheaper than GP11 it's still awfully dear for my tastes. But then, I'm used to handloaded .45.

Clark
January 3, 2003, 11:22 AM
The 284 brass is works well for me.

The 7.5 Swiss dies are not so good for the K-31, as they resize the shoulder when I try to neck size.http://telecom.hartford.edu/images/1911casts.jpg

Gewehr98
January 3, 2003, 02:40 PM
When the truth really needs to be known!

Used it once to figure out what a surplus Arisaka had been rechambered to. Good stuff!

444
January 3, 2003, 03:54 PM
Ok, appearently no one knows the numbers on the Swiss miltary issue load, so let me try something else.

Do you think that it is possible to use a .30-06 Lee Collet Die to neck size 7.5 Swiss brass ? If it is only sizing the neck, and since both calibers use the same bullets, I would think that both necks need to be sized to the same size ?

Clark
January 3, 2003, 06:22 PM
Was that Arisaka a 300 Sav?

I bought one at a pawn shop just to find out. It was labeled "30-06 Belgian"

I could figure it out with how far a .308 case would go in.

I have since seen some other similarly sporterized Arisaka's that WERE marked "300 Sav", so I think someone sporterized a bunch of them.

I didn't make the Cerosafe picture. I posted my problem with 7.5 Swiss dies and the K31, and the moderator at the Swiss rifle forum imediatly posted that diagram.

Gewehr98
January 3, 2003, 09:50 PM
Was a .31-06, or 7.7-06, whichever way you want to describe it.

With an oversized rear chamber area. Had they only cut another thread or two on the barrel shank before running the reamer in... :(

Country Boy
May 6, 2003, 05:18 PM
I'm looking at a K31, and I've been doing some websurfing, looking for 7.5 Swiss ammo and reloading components (trying to make sure I can afford to shoot). Here are a few sites I've found.

www.grafs.com
Norma Brass $16.99/20, $76.46/100, $348.30/500
Hornady Brass $27.99/100, $125.96/500
Hornady Ammo 165gr BTSP 20/BX $19.99

www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/7_5swiss.html
Surplus, Swiss Military 7.5 Swiss Ammo. FMJ, Non-Corr, Berdan primed (non reloadable)
$3.95/10, $22.95/60, $168/480

www.southernohiogun.com/ammunition.html
Produced in Switzerland in the 1980's, brass cased, 196 grain match, streamline bullet, Berdan prime, non-corrosive.
$23.95/60, $184.00/$480
[priced edited. I was thinking about getting the .45 ammo while I was trying to type the prices for the 7.5 Swiss ammo and got my wires crossed. thanks for the correction]

Scroll to the bottom of http://www.swissrifles.com/ammo/ for some more options.

The more I look at these rifles, the more I drool. I need to talk to my beautiful wife tonight about getting a K31. :p The only "problem" is that she's going to want a CCW gun to go with her new permit. Yippee!

Gary H
May 6, 2003, 10:27 PM
Country Boy:

http://www.southernohiogun.com/ammunition.html

You didn't scroll to the bottom of the page. I thought, wow, gotta have some of that but:



60Rd box $23.95 Each
480Rds (8 bricks) $184.00 Each

I think that pro basketball players are allowed to carry the K-31 as one of their CCW guns:uhoh:

saands
June 16, 2003, 12:40 PM
In case people are still looking for the numbers on the Swiss GP-11:

I chrono'd them at and average of 2616 fps out of my K-31 ... I can't recall buying Indep factory loads (I THOUGHT I bought Norma :eek: ) but I have a note in my log book for some 7.5 Swiss from FM that chrono'd at an average of 2202 fps. Unfortunately, I'm not at home and don't have the bullet weights for either round.

Saands

Cosmoline
June 16, 2003, 04:40 PM
I've got some new Graf brass on backorder. I'll let you know how it shoots. I had good luck with their 7.65 Arg. brass. Shoots just as well as Norma, though it doesn't look as nice.

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