cartouche


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yockey
December 26, 2002, 09:52 AM
I have an M95/30 with a butt stock cartouche waffen eagle standing on a circled swatica with Wo623 under it!!!!! Any help on this one? :confused:

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Jagermeister
December 26, 2002, 06:21 PM
Not sure what kind of help you are looking for. I am assuming it is a Mauser? Kindly provide what is stamped on the bbl and receiver. Also include any markings inside the stock.

Jagermeister

yockey
December 26, 2002, 06:47 PM
Therein lies the hitch as it is NOT a mauser! It is a Steyr-Mannlicher 95/30 carbine.
Don

TexasVet
December 26, 2002, 06:47 PM
The Steyr Mannlicher 95/30 carbines (or short rifles, if you prefer) were issued to second line troops in WW2 by the Germans. That's why it has a Wa stamp. They were used by some engineers, military police and local militias in the occupied countries.

yockey
December 26, 2002, 07:10 PM
Out of 40 odd rifles so far, this is the first one that I have found with this cartouche. Thanks for the info/replys!

Mike Irwin
December 26, 2002, 07:58 PM
The "cartouche" is correctly called a Waffenamt (sp?).

It signals official Nazi military acceptance.

The numbers indicate the factory at which the article was made.

I'm pretty certain that the 623 signifies the main Steyr works.

I have a Polish Radom with Wa 77, IIRC, which signifies production at the Polish arsenal at Radomau.

Jagermeister
December 27, 2002, 03:18 PM
Yockey:
As Mauser made a 1895 as did Mannlicher, I only thought of the Mauser. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

JM

Jim K
January 2, 2003, 09:18 PM
While collectors often call the marking itself a "waffenamt", the term really means "weapons office". The Heereswaffenamt (Army weapons office) controlled the numerous inspectors who worked at factories and depots in Germany and the occupied countries. An inspector was assigned a number and had a set of stamps with that number on them. He had a small staff who either did the marking or, in most cases, supervised contractor employees who did.

In German factories, the regular civilian employees usually put on the marks, with only minimal supervision by the army. In occupied countries, control and supervision was more stringent.

There seems to be little information on the actual identity of the inspectors, but collectors can often determine when and where an item was made by the inspector number, as well as when he was reassigned.

In the U.S. system, in contrast, the inspector's mark indicates only the commanding officer of the Ordnance District in which the item was made. It is unlikely that Col. Frank J. Atwood (FJA) or Lt. Col. Robert C. Downie (RCD) ever actually picked up a hammer and stamped their initials on a gun, but they were responsible for the quality of the product.

Jim

yockey
January 18, 2003, 04:10 PM
I have also found Stamp of the waffenamt on the reciever of this rifle! Does this add to the collectability of this rifle????:what:

Mike Irwin
January 18, 2003, 05:48 PM
Yockey,

Not particuarly.

yockey
January 19, 2003, 10:01 AM
Mike,
Thank you for your reply. This rifle is the only one out of 40+ M95s that I have found to be so marked, and it is special then only to me! But that is ok since I have no intent to sell her anyways! :D

Mike Irwin
January 19, 2003, 12:02 PM
You'll find considerable variations in the markings of guns, especially depending on the time frame in which they were made.

As I noted, I've got a Radom with Waffenamts on it. I frequently see Nazi-marked Radoms at gunshows. I can't tell you how many variations on markings I've seen over the past 15 years.

yockey
January 19, 2003, 12:14 PM
Yup, if they were issued they have a history! I like to know as much of it as I can!!!! Be sure that I will be here often to pick brains for answers!!!:D

yockey
January 19, 2003, 12:18 PM
Mike,
Have you ever seen or heard of a Stery-Mannlicher 95 having the waffenamts on them?:scrutiny:

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