the .45ACP for home-defence


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ThePerfectOne
January 18, 2003, 02:19 PM
hi there

I'm interested in buying a .45ACP just for good ol' fun :D
but I would also like to use it for home-defence since it is a better man-stopper than the 9mm para and has less problems with overpenetrating.

now here's my question: does the .45ACP make more noise than a 9mm para :confused:

personally I think 9mm para is about the maximum of noise your ears can handle when you use it inside your house without hearing protection. if a .45ACP would make more noise, than I don't think it would be a good choice for home-defence (and of course I wouldn't buy it than).

any comment on this would be highly appreciated.

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Croyance
January 18, 2003, 02:25 PM
I would tend to say it is deeper rather than louder, although the .45 ACP may be a bit louder.

Pistolsmith
January 18, 2003, 02:27 PM
If you ever have to use a pistol for self defense inside a house, the noise level will be the very least of your concerns. Afterward, you won't be able to tell whether it was louder than anything else.

Glock_17
January 18, 2003, 02:48 PM
Some months ago I saw a comparision chart regarding different calibers.
As far as I can remember:

9mm Para 163db(a)
.45 ACP 157db(a)

Because the scale is logarithmic 9mm Para is much louder than .45 ACP but both will damage your hearing without protection!

Sarge
January 18, 2003, 02:48 PM
and often the participants in these little festivities do not remember hearing or even firing individual shots.

4v50 Gary
January 18, 2003, 02:48 PM
Most cops report that during a gunfight, the auditory system shuts down. Medical science explains that blood is rushed to the systems required for survival (though I'm not sure how nature figured out hearing isn't required for survival).

dfrog
January 18, 2003, 02:52 PM
I wouldn't worry too much about the noise. It's not like you are going to be firing your pistol in your house everyday.

another okie
January 18, 2003, 03:13 PM
I assume we're talking a supersonic 9mm round and a subsonic .45, though the opposite is possible. That sonic crack makes a lot of difference, as does barrel length.

I have an electronic headset I keep in the bedroom for just this reason. It amplifies low level sounds and damps down loud ones. But if Mr. Burglar breaks into my house, he doesn't need to worry about handgun noise. A 12 gauge is louder than any handgun I own.

Al Thompson
January 18, 2003, 03:32 PM
Having known several people who fired a handgun in SD and having had two NDs in the house myself, noise is vastly overrated. Not even firing a .45 in my bedroom rang my ears. Fired a .357 six times in a car (don't ask :rolleyes: ) and got some ringing, but I have no hearing loss.

firestar
January 18, 2003, 03:47 PM
I think they are comparable with niether of them being noticably loader without ear protection. The 9mm feels loader to me because of the sharper crack.

Pistolsmith
January 18, 2003, 04:33 PM
Elmer Keith was once hunting with his hot loaded .44 revolver. When he sighted game and fired, bringing it down, he stated that he did not hear the shots he fired and that it must have been a trick of the wind. Actually it was a trick of the mind...auditory exclusion...and it can happen inside or outside.
I can remember firing an M1 rifle at a moving target, feeling the stock recoil into my shoulder and the spotweld jamming into my cheek, but I could not recall the rifle's report, not could I recall the number of shots I had fired. Not being an Infantryman or a Marine, I had not learned to count shots backwards from 8.
In a civilian situation, it is extremely important to count your remaining cartridges and remember how many shots you have fired...before the police arrive on the scene. They will ask you, and if you give a different number, you will have lots of trouble explaining the fact in court. For example, did you fire a shot BEFORE the final confrontation, etc. etc., etc.

Al Thompson
January 18, 2003, 07:44 PM
Pistolsmith, I'd venture to say that the best thing one could do in the aftermath of a shooting would be to NOT answer any questions. A simple "I'll answer questions after I calm down and my lawyer arrives" should be sufficient.

blades67
January 18, 2003, 07:46 PM
In a civilian situation, it is extremely important to count your remaining cartridges and remember how many shots you have fired...before the police arrive on the scene. They will ask you, and if you give a different number, you will have lots of trouble explaining the fact in court. For example, did you fire a shot BEFORE the final confrontation, etc. etc., etc.

I don't know, nor do I care, where you bought that crap, but you should take it back and get a refund.:rolleyes:

Dan Morris
January 18, 2003, 07:55 PM
I agree with Al, No statements until you calm down....even trained officers can not immediately tell number of rounds fired in a hot situation........
as to noise....you are not gonna realize it!
Dan

blades67
January 18, 2003, 08:00 PM
I highly recommend a SIG Sauer P220.

gryphon
January 18, 2003, 10:31 PM
.45 is more of a boom, 9mm is a boom and a crack, sound wise.

I would not want to be in an enclosed area shooting either if I could get away with it, but an HD situation kinda makes that a necessity.

cslinger
January 19, 2003, 03:10 AM
No!

Should someone come to threaten myself and my family.....who cares about noise.

I use a .45 for HD. .45 tends to be a deeper more bass like report then the 9mm which is a sharper, for me, more painful report.

Worry more about putting your shots where they count and overpenetration then how loud it will be. If the time ever comes and I pray it won't for all of us, you will not here it. It may still damage your hearing but that will be the least of your worries at the time.

Chris

ThePerfectOne
January 19, 2003, 05:43 AM
thank you all for your kind responses gentlemen!

most of you tend to find the .45 less sharp in noise than the 9mm, altough some say otherwise :confused:

I always beleived that since the .45 doesn't break the sound barrier it would make less noise.

I can't buy hollow-points here in Belgium, so FMJ's would be the ammo used for SD.

I'm definately not planning to shoot without hearing protection (even with a .22LR), but for SD you simply have no other option, so I tought I would choose ammo that has good stopping power and a low noise level, and the only ammo I know of with those characteristics is the .45ACP.

the current gun in our house for SD is a Ruger GP161 / 6" barrel with .357 magnum 158gr JSP ammo. great stopping power, but way too much noise, and I don't like to sacrifice my hearing just to shoot a burglar (esp. since I'm only 19, and I don't want to spend the rest of my live with hearing damage.

just wanted to comment on a few things that were said here.

WhoKnowsWho
January 19, 2003, 10:14 AM
I don't think you will have to worry about it, unless you plan on fighting of robbers every day or week. And as long as you don't fire the gun extremely close to your ears, which the blast itself would be pretty bad anyways.

Mike Irwin
January 19, 2003, 11:58 AM
The standard .45 round operates at considerably less pressure than the standard 9mm round. Depending on the different loads, though, that mileage may vary quite a bit.

You may not be able to realistically tell the difference in loudness levels, but your ears can.

Jim K
January 20, 2003, 02:13 PM
Maybe you don't hear shots in a defense situation, but your ears do. I knew one cop who fired a hot loaded .357 in a 10 ft wide alley between brick buildings. He was in pain for hours and he never recovered full hearing. I had a Walther PPK .32 fired next to my left ear and attribute at least part of my hearing loss in that ear to the incident.

Jim

Ala Dan
January 21, 2003, 01:06 AM
Greeting's All,

As others have stated, most of the time the noise
level of any handgun will go unnoticed at the moment
of truth.

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member

M1911
January 21, 2003, 09:56 AM
As others have stated, most of the time the noise level of any handgun will go unnoticed at the moment of truth.Auditory exclusion. However, just because you didn't notice the sound doesn't necessarily mean you won't suffer the physical damage to your hearing.

longeyes
January 21, 2003, 01:48 PM
Get some electronic ear muffs. Who knows, you might have time to put them on?

Rifleman 173
November 27, 2007, 05:37 AM
Any sounds above 90 db can damage your hearing. Just about all pistols, because they're so close when you shoot them, produce sounds that exceed 90 db. Wear hearing protection otherwise you'll end up like the old rangemaster who's ALWAYS saying, "Huh?" or "What'd he say?" I know because I'm that old rangemaster. :banghead:

GRIZ22
November 27, 2007, 09:29 AM
In a civilian situation, it is extremely important to count your remaining cartridges and remember how many shots you have fired

Everyone says to count your shots. Outside of shooting a qual course on a range counting your shots doesn't happen in the real world. That's why the first thing you should do when an encounter seems over is take cover and reload.

ps This inability to count rounds under stress is common to civilians, LE, and the Military.

mjrodney
November 27, 2007, 10:36 AM
I wouldn't want to do so today, 'cause today I know better, but when I was a young man, beginning in the mid-sixties, I hunted with both a rifle and a shotgun.

Hearing protection wasn't thought of back then, that I can remember.

The earliest I can remember owning ear protection was about 1980 or so.

I believe the damage one sustains is likely to be more long term, as opposed to short term, for I could hear just fine through the years and only now do I suffer from some hearing loss.

perpster
November 27, 2007, 11:27 AM
At the NYPD Outdoor Range the sign says "Don't Shoot Your Hearing--Wear Ear Protection".

BTW, Grizz is right: shot counting goes out the window in the real world no matter how well trained you are.

cyclist
November 27, 2007, 03:39 PM
You might want to try out some different bullet weights in your .357 to see if that makes any difference. Last time I did any real comparisons with a .357 I was shooting 125 gr bullets against either 170 or 180gr bullets. The heavier bullet rounds "boomed", the 125gr rounds had a sharper crack and extremely large muzzle flash. Muzzle flash is another factor you have to consider when looking at home defense ammunition. You could also maybe consider using .38Special ammo as another option.

But if you really just want to get another handgun then the .45acp is a nice option. Factory loaded 230gr ball is a nice way to go. You could also look at the semi-wadcutter softpoint target oriented ammo as another option, just ensure your pistol feeds it well.

welldoya
November 27, 2007, 03:45 PM
I would think it would be similar to a hunting situation.
When I'm sighting in my 30/06 I wear ear muffs and it still sounds loud. I feel every bit of the recoil. But when shooting at a deer without hearing protection (me, not the deer) it doesn't sound loud and I don't feel recoil.
I think adrenaline can make you ignore those things.

hankdatank1362
November 27, 2007, 04:42 PM
Mathematically, the 9mm should be much louder.

Speaking from experience, I've shot both without hearing protection, and to me...

the .45 gave me a headache like I've never felt. I let a friend shoot it (1911, he wasn't wearing any hearing protection either.. I know, we were dumb) and after three shots, he handed it back to me, cursing that , as he put it, "loud ringing motherf***er"!!!:eek:

Liko81
November 27, 2007, 05:02 PM
Most cops report that during a gunfight, the auditory system shuts down. Medical science explains that blood is rushed to the systems required for survival (though I'm not sure how nature figured out hearing isn't required for survival).


Fight or flight response. The three principles of karate are, if you cannot see, you cannot fight. If you cannot stand, you cannot fight. If you cannot breathe, you cannot fight. The adrenaline response naturally acts to help you in those areas. Blood flow to the eyes and brain is increased, as is flow to muscles, but the arteries actually contract, with only increased blood pressure keeping them open, so that if blood pressure falls due to injury, blood loss is restricted. Added to that, pain is largely ignored, reducing the incapacitating effects of injury. Lastly, the heart and breathing rate speed up to increase oxygenation. Hearing, smell and taste have nothing to do with close combat and the brain largely ignores those receptors when under adrenaline. Tactile sensation does, but such sensation is also numbed because the extreme of it is pain.

Noxx
November 27, 2007, 05:57 PM
I fired my M44 without hearing protection once. Once.

While having no desire to repeat the experience, I would venture that the level of sound is the absolute least of my concerns when choosing a defensive round. My nightstand gun (most evenings) is a 686 full of .357JHP. I don't really care if it sounds like the end of the world, it's a proven stopper, and that's where my concern lies.

novaDAK
November 27, 2007, 07:21 PM
When I tried shooting one of my full size (4.5" bbl) 9mms (using supersonic 115gr FMJ) OUTSIDE I couldn't hear anything but a subtle ring for a good 5-10 seconds, not even my own voice...something I don't want to experience again if I can help it, but I'd rather go deaf than die.

Just to throw it into the mix, how does .40SW compare in dB?

Bentonville
November 27, 2007, 08:10 PM
Someone said that their ears rang but sustained no damage, or something like that. As far as I know, ringing is damage. If hearing is not protected little by little, or sometimes at one time, the ability to hear is destroyed and mine has been replaced by 1000 crickets chirping 24/7. There is no help for tinnitus.
read up about it. http://www.hearingreview.com/issues/articles/2007-03_06.asp http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=246553

BigO01
November 27, 2007, 08:24 PM
You say you consider the 45 to be the superior round for defense than a 9mm , yet it may damage your hearing more than a 9mm , assuming this is all 100% true whats your deal ? Do want to be the corpse in the morgue with perfect hearing , IF you were alive ?

AndyC
November 27, 2007, 08:30 PM
Most cops report that during a gunfight, the auditory system shuts down.
From my experience, it didn't shut down completely as in "Aargh - I'm deaf!" - rather, each gunshot sounded like a very loud "pop" (no concussion or ears ringing), if that makes sense. In one case, I fired 6 or 7 rounds from an AK47 through the door-panel from inside a closed vehicle and I hardly heard a thing. Why that is, I have no idea.

http://img701.mytextgraphics.com/photolava/2007/11/27/shred2-f9j4eoi5.jpg

A bigger problem was tunnel-vision - I had to blink forcibly and shake my head to clear my eyesight because my peripheral-vision was just about zero.

Gibbles
December 1, 2007, 09:53 PM
I have shot my 9mm beretta and one of my 1911's with out hearing protection... the .45 is louder. (both out of a 5in barrel)

And will someone answer that damn phone?! :o


ETA: My night stand gun is a Glock 21 (.45ACP)

mekender
December 1, 2007, 11:50 PM
rom my experience, it didn't shut down completely as in "Aargh - I'm deaf!" - rather, each gunshot sounded like a very loud "pop" (no concussion or ears ringing), if that makes sense. In one case, I fired 6 or 7 rounds from an AK47 through the door-panel from inside a closed vehicle and I hardly heard a thing. Why that is, I have no idea.

and you shot up a perfectly good SUV door for what reason?

Geronimo45
December 2, 2007, 12:43 AM
and you shot up a perfectly good SUV door for what reason?
Pretty sure that's from Iraq, and he shot through that spot because it was the only spot not armored (plate metal on the inside normally, armored glass also?) - and shooting in the first place because people were shooting at him.

AndyC
December 2, 2007, 02:20 AM
100%, Geronimo ;)

Autolycus
December 2, 2007, 06:29 AM
Noise really should not matter when your being attacked. If anything more people will hear it and come to help.

ernunnos
December 2, 2007, 02:24 PM
.45 is both lower pressure and subsonic, which really helps. Particularly when you've got walls bouncing the shock wave back at you.

Even if you don't mentally hear it, it doesn't mean the tiny hairs in your ear aren't getting busted off. That ringing indicates that damage has been done. You lose the smallest, most fragile ones most easily, which is why the high (short) frequencies go fastest.

I love 9mm and .357, but my bedside gun is a .45. Sure, hearing isn't the greatest concern in a self-defense situation, but it's not like .45 is an inferior choice for defense either. If I can preserve my life and hearing, why not? This is also why I don't use compensators or brakes on defensive guns. (With the exception of the Noveske/Bulgarian Krink flash hiders, which do a great job of protecting shooters from blast.)

possum
December 2, 2007, 07:31 PM
personally I think 9mm para is about the maximum of noise your ears can handle when you use it inside your house without hearing protection.
try 5.56, like out of a SAW! :)

but I would also like to use it for home-defence since it is a better man-stopper than the 9mm para and has less problems with overpenetrating.
oh boy.

i can tell you from experiece that you will not hear those rds when they go off. all you will bethinking about is putting rds on target and doing so quicker than the bad guy, or before he can cause you or your loved ones harm. you might be in pian after the fact from the noise, or have hering lose as do i but that is the least of your worries.

Marlin 45 carbine
December 2, 2007, 07:41 PM
I own .45's but my Makarov is velcroed to the bedpost. stoked with hot handloads. several reasons why but won't delve into. my Marlin Camp .45 (w/10 rd. mag) and 1911 are ready(hanging on wall) should I have to step outside and 12 ga Magnum SXS leans in corner nearest bed. I live aways off pavement.

GaryP
December 3, 2007, 12:25 AM
now here's my question: does the .45ACP make more noise than a 9mm para

The original poster does not mention if anyone else lives in the house but that would be the biggest concern I would have when choosing a weapon for home protection and then choose my weapon, caliber, & ammo type accordingly. Given the original poster specifies 9mm or .45acp I would go with a .45acp auto loaded with Magsafe pre-fragmented rounds. I would not be concerned about the noise difference between the two calibers.

I just noticed the date on the original post: January 18, 2003 almost 5 years ago! :what:


:evil:

ERDOC
January 8, 2009, 10:24 PM
In a defense situation,you won't hear anything,except,maybe a pop.With most loads considered,I 've always found the 9mm to be a tad louder,emitting more of a crack,than the thud of a .45 .

C-grunt
January 9, 2009, 05:18 AM
Twice this zombie has been revived. LOL

In my experience, when the time comes you wont notice the sounds being loud. In my battles, I could here them fine, they were just not loud. Now the Abrams and Bradleys....those were still really loud!

Robert
January 9, 2009, 11:07 AM
Any sounds above 90 db can damage your hearing.
Huh?

Having fired a .40 S&W in a small room (for training) it rang my bells even with hearing protection. The concussion rattled me enough to make have to fight on to the next stage... I have never fired my .45 indoors but I would venture a guess that no matter what caliber you use, short of .22, you are going to be walking around for two days saying "huh?".

stalkingbear
January 9, 2009, 11:35 AM
This is pretty much an non-discussion anyway. He stated he lives in country where fmj is the ONLY bullets he can use. 9mm fmj bullets tend to over penetrate and possibly may hit family member/neighbor. The massive frontal area insures the .45acp has been PROVEN to be better stopper-ESPECIALLY when fmj bullets are mandated. The .45acp won't usually produce over penetration as the 9mm bullets tend to do. And NO, the .45acp is no louder than 9mm, and is MUCH milder in muzzleblast/db level than .357.

inSight-NEO
January 9, 2009, 09:34 PM
now here's my question: does the .45ACP make more noise than a 9mm para

Given an HD situation, you probably wouldnt notice much difference. But, dont bother testing this....

Oh...try shooting a .357 Magnum (using "full house" Magnum loads). Both the .45 ACP and 9mm will seem like dog farts in comparison.

Ive shot all 3 w/o protection (not smart). The Magnum ruled the day when firing Federal 125g. JHP loads (357B). It was the only gun/round that forced me to stop early.

In terms of strictly HD caliber preference...Id choose .45 ACP any day over 9mm.

IMTHDUKE
January 9, 2009, 11:01 PM
Uh....what was that you said?

Bentonville
January 10, 2009, 07:10 AM
What do you think about using a sound suppressor?

BernieD
January 10, 2009, 07:15 PM
I keep .45 next to the bed. I don't worry about noise. I would gladly sacrifice my ability to hear to protect my family. No question.

Truckin223
May 24, 2009, 01:43 PM
Hi there. I know i'm a little off topic but not to far. I shot about 50 rounds though my new xd 45 yesterday with no hearing protection (bad idea i know). I didn't notice how loud it was. My ears have been ringing for over 24 hours and i am just barely able to hear. When will this end??

stalkingbear
May 24, 2009, 02:23 PM
It might not EVER end-you did permanent damage to your hearing. How much you'll be able to determine later.:banghead:

DeepSouth
May 24, 2009, 02:43 PM
ThePerfectOne
Member



Join Date: 12-27-02
Location: Belgium
Posts: 99
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the current gun in our house for SD is a Ruger GP161 / 6" barrel with .357 magnum 158gr JSP ammo. great stopping power, but way too much noise, and I don't like to sacrifice my hearing just to shoot a burglar (esp. since I'm only 19, and I don't want to spend the rest of my live with hearing damage.

just wanted to comment on a few things that were said here.

That's what I'm talking about, 19 now with a join date of 12-27-02
That would make you like 12 when you joined, right?:cool:

SaxonPig
May 24, 2009, 04:13 PM
You don't hear gunshots in a gunfight. Mas Ayoob has discussed this phenomenon.

I once fired seven rounds of 45 ACP indoors and never heard a sound.

There's a medical term for blocking out the noise but I don't recall it.

Besides, if you are in a gunfight the Hell with the noise.

jhco
May 24, 2009, 04:47 PM
I don't think it louder, I've never measured the sound but it does seem to have more of a boom than a crack sound. Of course I'm judgeing this with the use of hearing protection.

IMTHDUKE
May 24, 2009, 05:31 PM
hi there. I know i'm a little off topic but not to far. I shot about 50 rounds though my new xd 45 yesterday with no hearing protection (bad idea i know). I didn't notice how loud it was. My ears have been ringing for over 24 hours and i am just barely able to hear. When will this end??

huh? What did you say?

outerlimit
May 24, 2009, 07:28 PM
I can't buy hollow-points here in Belgium, so FMJ's would be the ammo used for SD.

Then .45acp is definitely the way to go, not that I wouldn't recommend it anyways.

BK
May 24, 2009, 07:43 PM
If you have to fire a gun indoors, hearing damage is a small issue compared to the situation you have found yourself in.

outerlimit
May 24, 2009, 07:49 PM
Hearing damage is never a small issue.

orionengnr
May 25, 2009, 12:58 AM
and I don't want to spend the rest of my live with hearing damage.

As long as I spend the rest of my life alive, I will probably view the ancillary complications to be...of somewhat lesser importance.
I've had a bit over 50 years to think about this, and I have yet to change my mind. :)

ojibweindian
May 25, 2009, 10:14 AM
That's what I'm talking about, 19 now with a join date of 12-27-02
That would make you like 12 when you joined, right?


The OP originated back in 2003. He was 19 when the post was made, and would be close to 25 years old now.

Dogbite
May 25, 2009, 02:29 PM
Dont worry about how much noise it makes. Once you get a pistol, study it and know it up down and sideways. Get good at loading it, and unloading it, and breaking it down to clean. Get a veteran shooter to take you shooting and learn the basics. Then practice, practice, practice. When you think your doing well, practice a bunch more.

shiftyer1
May 25, 2009, 02:42 PM
I fire 3 handgun calibers .9mm, .357, and .45. The 9mm is the only one that the family objects to.

As already stated the .45 is a deeper boom. I prefer it also to 9mm

Bentonville
May 25, 2009, 06:23 PM
truckin223, I am sorry to read that you have permanently damaged your hearing. You will regret it. I shot .38s for many years before all the info. came out about plugs and NRR etc. I played in rock bands during the same time. Now I have ringing every second of my life. It keeps me awake, interferes with my hearing of conversations. There is no cure of help for it. I hope from now on you will protect with plugs AND muffs, each with a rating of 33. I use plugs when using loud tools such as my weed eater, chainsaw, etc. I want to keep what I have until I take a dirt bath.

xXxplosive
May 26, 2009, 12:19 AM
Once I was standing right next to a fella sighting in a .338 Win. Magnum rifle out doors with no ear protection. The ear closest to the rifle report went deaf for 3 days....seemed the sound / concussion caused some wax in my ear to move over the ear drum...had to have it seen by a Doc.

Couldn't imagine this in closed quarters and a couple of .45 rounds...:what:

Rockwell1
May 26, 2009, 01:19 AM
I'm thinking , given that this thread is 6 YEARS OLD , the OP has his answer.

JShirley
May 26, 2009, 01:41 AM
Auditory exclusion.

Protect your hearing, folks. I still hear pretty well, but not nearly as well as I did. I never used hearing protection as a young man, while out with my father and brothers. Even if I hadn't used it while hunting, I would definitely have used it for sighting-in and target shooting, if I'd realized the damage that was happening.

Noise is the reason I don't like muzzle brakes on firearms.

I keep some Peltors next to my bed.

And this one's had its time.

John

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