Range distances. Move out or Move in?


January 20, 2003, 01:34 AM
I was wondering how you people practice at the ragne. Do you keep the targets all the way out there or do you pratice at statistical seld defense distances?

Me personally I tend to light off a mag or two at about 30 feet then do some 25 yd work. At about 1/2 of the way through the session I move the target in from 25 yds each magazine. (I love indoor zip lines so you can adjust the distance without walking out on the range). I tend to split my ranges between 25 yds and 30" quick shots.

This leads me to my second question. For a new shooter would starting out at 25yds and moving in or starting up close and moving out work better for training/introduction?

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January 20, 2003, 01:51 AM
I start out at 3 feet , draw cold with CCW and carry loads.Repeat with weak hand.

3 yds repeat- draw and fire,strong/ weak hand
7 yds repeat above
10 yds ditto
15 yds ditto

I always remember the rule of 3's
Tueller drill at 7 yds.

I do other stuff, but my main focus is CCW for myself or students.
I had a student stand behind me, at the sound of the buzzer he was to run (opposite downrange) at the sound of first shot he was to stop. My draw and fire with P-11 was .90. ( concealment with a canvas shirt on)

We swapped roles him with a model 10 OWB holster--NO concealment garment-- I traveled 27 feet --stuck in the new CCW students minds. I could have knifed him before he could have drawn and shot me coming from a distance of 27'.

January 20, 2003, 06:16 AM
Do you keep the targets all the way out there or do you pratice at statistical seld defense distances? I guess I set the distance at either near (7 yrds) or far (25 yrds), or whatever I feel like doing or improving upon. ;)

But sometimes I try to practice what the other guys were doing that seem to interest me.

No system whatsoever... :D:D:D

January 20, 2003, 10:10 AM
I try to practice everywhere but my concentration is on closer (under 15 yards) distances. Normally I go from contact in a retention position out to 25 yards. I also like doing timed El Prez and Bill Drills in my practice.

January 20, 2003, 10:32 AM
I practice @ 25 feet, which is the longest distance in my house that I can get off a clean shot. I figure, anything closer than that should just be that much easier to hit.

January 20, 2003, 10:52 AM
Much of my compo' work in old days was 25yd . tho many closer distances too with fast stages. Practice tho? .. generally a lot of speed work at the 20 feet sorta distance ... and then always some 25yd to finish.

Whatever seems useful on the day!

January 20, 2003, 10:55 AM
I do most of my shooting at the 50' point and then a litte at 75'. Then, as I finish up, I'll shoot at about 25'
Sure it's easier to shoot at closer distances, but if you can shoot far, you can probably shoot close up.
As for new shooters, I like teaching them to shoot up close first. Build up some good habits/skills and confidence before I mess them up by shooting farther away.

Sean Smith
January 20, 2003, 12:31 PM
Indoors, I usually start at 7 yards to make sure I haven't picked up any obvious stupid habits since my last trip to the range. Then I practice shooting weak-hand for a while From there, I bump up the distance to 15 yards, then 25 if I have any time/ammo left.

Outdoors, alot more realistic stuff: from the holster, everywhere from 3 to 25+ yards, multiple targets, etc. Try to be inventive with different drills to develop different skills

January 20, 2003, 12:57 PM
With a new shooter, closer is better.

I noticed with my kids, if they weren't hitting the target, or couldn't see where they were hitting, they got bored and lost interest.

When I moved them up to 10 ft. they could see every hole, and it was a lot easier to hit near the bullseye.
They could see the results, and see that "Yes, I can do this!"
(After I got them on paper, I blew up few party balloons, and stapled them to the target board. Then they started laughing when they got hits. ;) )

After you get good up close, start backing up.
Thats what the LEO that taught my CCW class advised, and it helped my shooting a lot.

4v50 Gary
January 20, 2003, 01:33 PM
New shooters? I start them close and as they develop proficiency, move the target back. Build confidence and gun handling skill. If they're civilian, the furtherst distance they shoot is the maximum straight line distance in their house - just like what gryphon practices.

January 20, 2003, 04:50 PM
Remembered another factor we have discussed before ... ''weak'' hand ... essential IMO to cultivate this as a practice ... strong hand too ... as a means of being more than adequate one handed .. never know when a hand is gonna be damaged.

Brings up one more point also .. it is often considered ''wise'' to shoot off hand when cover is not available ... so as to have strong arm fully extended and body sideways on ... smaller target ..... altho myself, I tend to also favor the ''crouch weaver'' ... two handed approach but nearer to a squat ... again, making oneself smaller.

!Of course if good enough --- you'll always get first shot off .... first!!

January 20, 2003, 05:01 PM
I used to go through several drills. 7 yard double taps, 7 yard Mozambique (double taps to COM and one to the head) 1 shot per second at 25 yards, slow aimed fire at 25 yards. Maybe 8 rounds at 50 yards and another 8 shooting at the 100 yard gong.

Once I was completely comfortable with that, I just started to have fun at the range. Shooting my Dan Wesson 22 revolver against a friend and his 30s Remington 22 rifle. Shooting at cans or pigeons at a variety of distances. Have been trying to get better at 100 yard shooting with centerfire guns but I'm just not very good at it. The Dan Wesson serves me well at that distance but I've tried several centerfires at 100 yards and I guess I'm just not good enoug yet. Still do the 1 shot per second at 25 yards but hardly ever do double taps or shooting of any kind at 7 yards.

January 21, 2003, 07:16 PM
It depends, sometimes I get to the range right after the line has gone hot so I unpack my gear and start shooting at the 100 yard gongs. Then I'll set up my target stand at 25 yards, then 10-15 yards and so on moving the target at each cease-fire for variety. Other times I'll just start working at 25 yards and move to the 100 yard gongs and come back to the 25 yard target.

January 21, 2003, 07:53 PM
Start a new shoot up close. Let them get used to the gun & distance, let them understand that guns/bullets don't perform like in the movies.

Why discourage them with distance shots?

7 yards & then moving up to 15 yards is good enough.

January 23, 2003, 08:02 AM
On an indoor range, I have the lights shut off, run out a silhouette target to about 30 feet and do some realistic practice. Somebody said "statistically". Statistics dictate that it will go down in absolute darkness.
WeaK hand shooting? Statistics from the State Patrol do not show a single incident of weak hand shooting, though there was one oficer with his shooting hand nearly amputated who was clawing at his holster with the stump. Go figure. I would guess that losing one's shooting hand was a sign from somebody up there to rethink the situation. However, weak hand shooting, though it will probably never be neded, is worthwhile and you just never know if you will be an exception to the rules. And, you will probably always be able to lend support from the injured member. But know this: It will never go as smoothly as a range drill. Expect the unexpected by having a shooting buddy add a few conditions that are totally unexpected. ALWAYS SHOOT FOR A PRIZE. My range buddy and I always fired for the breakfast check. It simply makes you sharper.

January 24, 2003, 08:47 AM
Thanks to sound advice from a number of experienced shooters, I have developed a schedule of defensive drills that I now practice once each week during a three hour or more sesson.

First, I set a paper target to 15 yards from my firing position and using the front sight alignment technique, I slow fire a full 8 round magazine using two hand hold of a 1911, and then with each hand separately.

I repeat this drill rapid firing two shots aiming centermass, head and pelvis.

This shooting drill is continued for an hour.

Next, I move the target to 10 yards from my firing position and repeat the first drill at this distance for an hour.

The remainder of my session (one to two hours maximum) is devoted to point shooting. I place the target to 5 yards and dry practice for a half hour removing pistol from holster, thrusting and dry fire point shooting.

Next, rapid live fire for a half hour pointing to centermass, head and then pelvis. I do not use the sights of the pistol at any time during this drill. During this drill, I alternate using both tactical and stress magazine loading.

If I have any stamina left, I move a target to 25 yards from the firing line and simply have some fun shooting until all of my ammo is expended.

Once in a while, I am able to shoot at metal targets. Then, the drill is shooting at distances no greater than 10 yards.

January 24, 2003, 08:54 AM
For a new shooter, start close in and then move the targets out. If shooting an IPSC match with targets placed close and far, start with the close in targets. I shot one match with steel poppers set from 10 to about 40 yards. I was going to be the hot shot and start with the 40 yard targets. Well, I really should have started with the 10 yard popper first.

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