Corporate/Private Security owned NFA Items?


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LoneCoon
February 15, 2010, 03:38 PM
Is it legal for corporations to own NFA items?

For example, how to private security firms acquire their Title 3 items?

Edit: Can I get a mod to fix the title?

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CoRoMo
February 15, 2010, 03:56 PM
Yes. The business is the usually the owner if the individual employees are not.

CleverNickname
February 15, 2010, 05:01 PM
Yes, a corporation, LLC or trust may own firearms just like a real person and duly authorized officers and employees may possess the firearms. However, a corporation, LLC or trust is bound by the same law as a real person, i.e. just because it's a corporation doesn't mean the corporation can go buy all the post-sample machine guns it wants to. It would have to have the appropriate FFL and SOT just like a real person.

The main reason many private citizens choose to use a corporation as a vehicle for ownership is because the ATF requires a Chief Law Enforcement Officer to sign off on the form 1 or form 4, if it's for a real person. They don't require it for corporations, LLCs or trusts. This is just ATF policy though, not federal law. It's been challenged in the past, but the ruling went in the ATF's favor.

Unistat
February 15, 2010, 07:23 PM
By the way, if you are curious, that is how Hollywood gets all the post '86 firearms. There are companies that rent to them. Ever heard of a fellow named Larry Correia?

Girodin
February 17, 2010, 09:36 PM
Ever heard of a fellow named Larry Correia?

Isn't he an author that used to be involved with a gun company that tanked really hard after he left them to write more cool books.

LoneCoon
February 18, 2010, 04:46 PM
By the way, if you are curious, that is how Hollywood gets all the post '86 firearms. There are companies that rent to them. Ever heard of a fellow named Larry Correia?
That is what I was curious about. I was also curious about how companies like Blackwater acquired their firearms, but I suspect that it's more through some sort of government loop hole rather than standard LLC channels.

Sebastian the Ibis
February 23, 2010, 09:49 AM
Blackwater gets most (maybee all, or some) through the State Department. Security guards at nuclear power plants get them through the Department of Energy. The government department purchases the weapons, then loans them to the contractor.

I think, but do not know for sure, that many of the Hollywood post 86 weapons are non-firing replicas, to which they later add gun sounds and muzzle flash. Think about how many times you have seen someone shoot a 7.62 Nato MG full auto, or a SBS one handed w no recoil.

Quiet
February 23, 2010, 10:18 AM
In regards to the movie industry, airsoft/replica weapons, with CGI'd effects added in later, are being used a lot more now. In addition, some movies are made in countries that do not restrict the ownership of post-'86 MGs.

LoneCoon
February 23, 2010, 05:39 PM
Blackwater gets most (maybee all, or some) through the State Department. Security guards at nuclear power plants get them through the Department of Energy. The government department purchases the weapons, then loans them to the contractor.

I think, but do not know for sure, that many of the Hollywood post 86 weapons are non-firing replicas, to which they later add gun sounds and muzzle flash. Think about how many times you have seen someone shoot a 7.62 Nato MG full auto, or a SBS one handed w no recoil.

That raises another question.

Is it possible to have a blank firing full auto?

LiquidTension
February 24, 2010, 06:26 PM
Absolutely. First FA I ever fired was an M16 fitted with a blank firing adapter at McEntire national guard base outside of Sumter. Also fired a FAL on FA with a BFA in the middle of West Columbia one time.

TexasRifleman
February 24, 2010, 06:47 PM
That raises another question.

Is it possible to have a blank firing full auto?

Yes.

There are generally 2 types.

1) External adapters that plug the barrel (leaving a small orifice for gas to get out, but holding enough gas pressure to operate the action). These are usually bright red or something obvious for safety reasons.

2) Internal plugs with a similar orifice. These sometimes go into the barrel under the flash hider or sometimes even dedicated barrels with plugs/orifices.

The internal adapters are extremely dangerous for anyone who shoots live ammo in their full auto firearm. You forget that blank firing adapter is in there and BOOM.

Have a friend who blew up a BAR with an internal BFA. Gotta be very careful.

On the flip side, it's hard to tell that the BFA is in the rifle so guys like re-enactors and stunt people have to have VERY good safety protocols in place to avoid a tragedy.

Also, you have to work up a load/orifice combination so that there is enough gas back pressure to operate the firearm but not enough to overstress things.

External:

http://www.ustacticalsupply.com/ProductImages/smith/1015.jpg

"Hollywood:

http://www.mooremilitaria.com/BFA.JPG

c5_nc
February 25, 2010, 10:23 AM
Blackwater's NFA weapons were seized back in 2007 I think. Blackwater "donated" money to the local Sheriff to purchase them, then they were stored at Blackwater facility where they could be used for "training" and Sheriff's department would have access to them if something big broke out. BATF did not like the arrangement. The M4s/m16s and AK-47s were being used to train mostly military and LE prior to them being seized. They own plenty of Full autos, etc still, but they are stored in other countires.

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