suppressor??


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rifleman14
April 18, 2010, 12:48 PM
Hey everyone, sorry if this has been brought up before, but i couldnt quite find a solid answer to this anywhere so i figured maybe yall could help me out.
I was reading a thread about quiet calibers for shooting in the early AM hours when i ran across a few posts in the thread that surprised me. They claimed that as long as you are legal to purchase a handgun from an FFL, you can own a supressor...I live in northern Indiana and was always told that i could NOT own a supressor. I am not as knowledgeble on the whole supressor subject as many others...I dont even know if there is a difference between a silencer and a supressor. I would love to get one simply because I shoot on my own property but do live within 1/2 mile radius of some gun-ignorant people as i like to call them(they arent very tollerent of my shooting and have called the police on me for shooting my mosin "excessivly" before :o ) and i would like to be able to shoot as much as i would like without having to worry about having the cops called on me! So could someone please clarify the legality on silencers/supressors or give me a link to a website that would educate me on what I must do to legally aquire and own one?
Thanks a ton!

Dylan

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kingpin008
April 18, 2010, 12:59 PM
Rifleman - Yes, in general as long as you're legal to own a firearm, you're legal to own a suppressor. There's no difference between a suppressor & silencer, except for that the movies call 'em silencers, and they're -spooky- quiet.

Now, you might live in a state that prohibits NFA goodies. If you are, well...good luck getting it changed. That might be what you were told.

rifleman14
April 18, 2010, 04:23 PM
so where do i look to find out the laws for owning suppressors in my state?

if Indiana does allow me to own a supressor, what do i have to do to get one? is there any paperwork or do i just go out and buy one?

thanks,

Dylan

kingpin008
April 18, 2010, 05:51 PM
Well, I'm not the most knowledgeable in regards to NFA goodies, but a quick Google tells me that suppressors are indeed legal in your state.

To obtain one, you have two options:

Contact the ATF and fill out a Form 1, which allows you to physically build your own suppressor.

or,

Visit a Class 3 dealer in your area, and let them walk you through the process. I believe the form you fill out when simply buying a ready-made suppressor is the Form 4.

Either way, it will cost you a flat, one-time fee of $200 (for the tax stamp) on top of whatever the suppressor (or materials to build the suppressor) costs.

After you fill out the background check and the Form 1 or 4, you wait for your application to be approved, and when the forms come back from the ATF you go pick up your new toy from the dealer or start building!

And that should be it. Hopefully if I've glossed over or forgotten anything, one of our more knowledgeable members will come along shortly and school me. :D

tincanhunter
April 18, 2010, 06:21 PM
1) Make sure suppressors are legal in your state. Looks like they are.
2) Decide what you want to suppress.
3) Do some research (internet is great for this) on different suppressors for what you want to make quiet.
4) Find a Class 3 dealer in your area and pay them a visit.
5) Purchase the suppressor you want and fill out Form 4.

Here's where it may get tricky. Form 4 requires a sign off from your local CLEO. Some CLEO's won't sign for ANY NFA items or they're ridiculously strict (like where I live). Your class 3 dealer will probably know how difficult it will be for you to get the signature. If you can't get the sign off, you can form a revocable living trust in which you are the grantor and trustee and have the trust own the suppressor. Trusts are living entities as far as the law is concerned and don't have backgrounds, so they are not subject to CLEO sign off or the FBI background check. I wound up forming a trust for my suppressor purchase.

6) Send form 4 and $200 to the ATF and wait. Depending on whether your dealer has what you're looking for, whether you go the trust route on form 4 or not and considering the wait for the ATF, the whole process could take around 6 months.

7) When the stamped form 4 comes back to your dealer, Christmas day has arrived!! Go pick up your new toy.

zoom6zoom
April 18, 2010, 06:34 PM
If your local Class 3 dealer doesn't stock the item you want, you may also end up paying an additional transfer fee as well. Some dealers are reasonable, other.... aren't.

Sublime865
April 18, 2010, 07:10 PM
tincanhunter, tell me more about this forming a trust you speak of.

Moreover, whats the deal with the Form 4/$200 tax? Is it a one time or an each time. I'd like to get some NFA goodies, but dont want to have to wait 6 months a pop! The $200 isn't AS big a deal but I wasn't sure if you paid the tax and it registerd/whatevered you.

The trust you speak of may be a good thing for me to do as well, as most of the law enforcement around me knows me based on my driving habits, and as far as I have heard are not pushovers when it comes to things like that anyway.


Then again, our police chief just got in trouble for looking at kiddie porn at work... and he still has a job... so you never know in this country.

In case anyone was wondering, he got "let go" because they couldn't "verify" the age of the girls in the videos. There are filenames in the warrant at our newspapers site, I'll let you guess what 11YO means...:
http://www.rutlandherald.com/article/20100210/NEWS04/2100362

brboyer
April 18, 2010, 07:25 PM
Try this (http://lmgtfy.com/?q=what+is+an+NFA+trust).

Yep, $200 each and 4-6 month wait each.

hammerklavier
April 19, 2010, 10:24 AM
Don't try making your mosin quiet, where would the fun in that be? Suppressors work best with subsonic loads, which are readily available in .308 or .223, or you can always load your own in other calibers.

CoRoMo
April 19, 2010, 10:59 AM
Check here...

http://grburnett.us/guns/nfa/NFADevicesbyStatewmap.pdf

Wahoo95
April 19, 2010, 11:16 AM
"Silencer" is actually the proper term, however most tend to refer to them as Sound Suppressors since that's what they do.

rifleman14
April 19, 2010, 12:04 PM
actually hammer, its for my AR15. i wouldnt put a mosin to shame like that ;)

Ranb
April 19, 2010, 12:38 PM
http://www.silencertalk.com is one of the best soucres of info. http://www.subguns.com is good also. I design and make silencers on ATF form 1's. They work well even on the magnum calibers. My lastest project was for my 338 ultra mag. It is still loud, but safe to use without ear plugs. They also work well on the AR's but they sound louder (compared to bolt guns) at the shooter's position due to the action noise.

Ranb

rifleman14
April 19, 2010, 01:42 PM
Ranb, after watching a few of those videos, it seems like silencers dont actually silence rifle rounds as much as people think they do. The MP5 and 22 pistol were spooky quiet but the AR15 sounded like a 22 LR to me!

Would it be possible to attatch a silencer to a springfield mil-spec 1911 45 ACP? I dont believe that there is any part of the barrel that sticks out the front of the slide when in the forward position. Would there be any way of going about doing this?

Thank you,
Dylan

Wahoo95
April 19, 2010, 01:50 PM
You are correct. Although the silencer can suppress or eliminate the muzzle blast it has no effect on the sound of the bullet going supersonic. That sonic crack is omni-directional and can only be eliminated by shooting subsonic ammo......ammo which has been loaded roughly <1,080fps depending on enviromental factors. While shooting supersonic ammo may still be loud, in most cases it is still somewhat hearing safe as the sound is moving away form you.

Yes, extended/threaded barrels are available allowing you to mount a silencer to a 1911.

tincanhunter
April 19, 2010, 02:10 PM
"Would it be possible to attatch a silencer to a springfield mil-spec 1911 45 ACP? I dont believe that there is any part of the barrel that sticks out the front of the slide when in the forward position. Would there be any way of going about doing this?"

Sure. It's entirely possible. You will need a new threaded barrel (EFK, Barstow...I'm sure there are others that make them) for the 1911 and a maybe gunsmith to fit the barrel to your 1911. You will more than likely need a taller set of sights to "see" over the can also.

From what I've read, seen on youtube, AR's in 5.56 don't quiet down as well as pistols and even 308's do. Keep in mind that the ammo used has alot to do with how quiet you can get the combo to be. Sub-sonic loads will be the quietest, which would make your 45 a good candidate. My dad has a Gemtech on a H&K 45 USP Tactical. It sounds about like popping a an air chuck loose from an air compressor hose and only little louder. There's a fella (manufacturer actually) that shows up at a local range with a suppressed Remington 700 in 308. With his subsonic handloads, the 700 is just slightly louder than my dads 45.

Here's another idea to chew on if you reload and have a 9mm. Buy a suppressor for a 9mm and a full upper in 300 Whisper for your AR (less the bolt b/c the 300 uses the same bolt as 5.56). Use the same can for the rifle and pistol.

Sam1911
April 19, 2010, 02:24 PM
I just moved this over to the NFA goodies forum as we seem to have shifted into a discussion of the "how-to" aspect, rather than legal.

Carry on.

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