Which Collapsable Baton?


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Mikul
December 26, 2002, 02:57 PM
I would like a collapsable baton that is at least 24" extended. Strength, reliability, price and size are all important.

I've seen the popular ASP batons for around $70 and the occasional knock offs for $25.

Any suggestions are appreciated.

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Jack19
December 26, 2002, 03:38 PM
Remember, you get what you pay for.

Fed168
December 26, 2002, 04:56 PM
I use a Casco. Feels better than the ASP (to me). No chance to really use it for its purpose, served more time as an entry tool.

Hkmp5sd
December 26, 2002, 10:13 PM
I've had an ASP for several years now with no problems (unless you count this one idiot that picked it up and tried to extend it by reaching over his shoulder and whipping it forward. Got a little to close to the head, knocked himself to his knees and almost managed to rip the ear off - now that I think about it, I guess it functioned correctly then too).:)

nascarnhlnra
December 27, 2002, 12:43 PM
I have to agree with ya get what ya pay for I would stick with the ASP model I have read other places that some of the cheaper models from knock off companies bend alot easier that the ASP's.I have the 16" model asp and it is a dream to carry it even fits in my back pocket with an untucked shirt and goes unnoticed.

Trisha
December 27, 2002, 12:49 PM
My ASP tucks into a little holster at the top of my calf whenever I wear a broomstick skirt - and I wouldn't trade it for anything.

Superb!

Trisha

Mikul
December 28, 2002, 01:57 AM
I've been considering a baton recently since I've thought more about using a knife as a weapon and I remember doing two-sword work while studying Aikido. It is a formidible defense technique. In addition to the katana being an excellent weapon it functions very well in guiding blows around you leaving you still capable of attacking with the other hand.

A baton would be effective in this regard, but only one with some reach. If an attacker is too close, you can't brush him away and some of the baton's length is taken up by your hand. In my case, my big ol' mits take up at least seven inches. On an 18" baton, I would only have an 11" reach: not very impressive.

The 26" ASP that I handled would be effective, but as troublesome to conceal as a full-sized sidearm. I wouldn't be caught dead in a broomstick skirt. My legs are far too pretty to hide under something like that.

Mikul
December 28, 2002, 02:06 AM
Do either the ASP or Casco batons lock open? It would be silly if they closed when pushed upon.

The Cascos are intrigueing. They're carried by the LAPD. They seem to have an good warranty, but they are not warranted against abuse. Aren't batons meant for abuse?

Casco's web site is: www.casco-batons.com

Hkmp5sd
December 28, 2002, 02:21 AM
They are both "locked" open by friction. You ram the end straight down on the ground (or other hard surface) to collapse the baton. The Casco's are just a cheaper version of the ASP.

Drjones
December 28, 2002, 04:45 AM
As with anything, you do indeed get what you pay for.

Stick with ASP or Monadnock, consider no others.

I have the Monadnock 26" Autolock.

Yes, it is heavier than most other collapsibles, but it has the unique "Autolock" feature; it extends with a flick of the wrist, and closes with the push of a button!

I did tons of research on these before buying (as I do with all my toys!) and here are some points to keep in mind:

-The standard friction-lock ASPs can seize open. If this happens, they require a hammer or disassembly to fix.

-The airweights are more comfortable to carry because of reduced weight, but being an impact weapon, lighter is NOT better. Of course people will chime in with percentages, numbers, etc., but overall, unless you REALLY need to save the weight, it isn't worth it for a few ounces.

-The airweight ASPs use an aluminum alloy for one or more sections, and thus are not as strong as standard batons. They bend and break more easily. Also, since aluminum is softer than steel, they are more prone to seizing open.

-ALL friction-lock batons require a hard surface to close. Have been cases where an officer deployed baton, only to later find himself surrounded by grass, gravel, etc. Had to leave baton locked open. PITA. :mad: This is not the case with the Autolocks.

I have been completely satisfied with my Autolock. Cool toy, and the only "non-lethal" tool I'd bother with, if any.

bad_dad_brad
December 28, 2002, 08:32 PM
I like my ASP. I use it to change the hands on a hard to reach clock.

I just bought it because it was cool. I would not think of carrying one. i would rather have a good knife handy.

Soap
December 28, 2002, 09:18 PM
I carry one of those 21" standard weight ASPs from time to time. I've found that I can just slide it into my watch pocket and its concealed and comfortable. YMMV. Don't forget to practice regularly.

MolonLabe416
December 28, 2002, 11:04 PM
I prefer the Monadnock because it has a button that allows you to collapse it without beating it against the nearest hard surface. ASP and Monadnock are the two top choices, IMHO.

Drjones
December 29, 2002, 01:27 AM
Originally posted by bad_dad_brad
I just bought it because it was cool. I would not think of carrying one. i would rather have a good knife handy.

No offense, but that really doesn't make any sense. Why would you carry a knife over a baton, if your purpose is defense?

Knife: VERY short range, VERY messy. Do you REALLY want some scums blood all over you??? Also nowhere NEAR as intimidating as the sound of a collapsible baton deploying. :cool: Also NOT very effective, or, needs lot of training to use effectively.

Baton: MUCH longer range (up to around 3ft.) Much more intimidating, and FAR more effective. It is totally easy to inflict LOTS of pain and damage on a BG with one of these. In fact, with a head shot, you could easily kill someone. Its been done before.

Not a flame, just my opinion...

QKRTHNU
December 29, 2002, 02:30 PM
I just ordered a 21" Duratec Airweight. It hasn't arrived yet though.

I went for the light-weight model to insure I don't get sick of carrying it. The way I understand it the top section (maybe top 2) is still steel, so it should have almost the same momentum.
Also I'm just concerned with it opening when I need it. If it bends a little bit after cracking some BG a few times and won't close Ohh well, I'll just have to replace it, no biggie.

CyberGOP
December 30, 2002, 02:50 AM
Is a baton legal to carry in MI ? I ask because I don't want to carry one if it will get me locked up .

Erich
January 1, 2003, 11:53 PM
I just wanted to chime in my opinion that the Monadnock Autolock is the only one I would have (and is presently the only one I do have).

Gomez
January 2, 2003, 03:22 PM
Collapsible/Expandable Batons in my Experience

ASP's are very good, but ASP can't measure very well.:) 16-inch is actually 15.75, 21-inch is 20.75, etc. I'm partial to the 21-inch, electroless nickel plated,rubber gripped, airweight model. It's more commonly know as the 21-inch Duratec.

Monadnock/Casco/Ram Industries are all the same product. Monadnock is the teir one production available with all the finish, grip and tip options. Casco is the teir two production availalbe with less options. Ram Industries is the "house brand" for Moteng (a wholesale company). They offer very few options, but can save you a pretty penny without compromising quality.

Monadnock AutoLocks are pretty spiffy. The early production runs had a problem with seizing open, but that was cleared up years ago.

The Winchester baton is huge. It's as wide around the grip as the old 1.25 wide hickory batons of the old days. Impossible to conceal, uncomfortable to carry and the grip slips around. ANd they are expensive, too.

I carry a 21-inch Duratec in appendix position and won't leave home without it.

sonny
January 2, 2003, 04:01 PM
Drjones,


Knife: VERY short range, VERY messy. Do you REALLY want some scums blood all over you??? Also nowhere NEAR as intimidating as the sound of a collapsible baton deploying. Also NOT very effective, or, needs lot of training to use effectively.

There will be plenty of blood either way if you whack em good!;)

Kahr carrier
January 2, 2003, 05:21 PM
ASP :)

bad_dad_brad
January 3, 2003, 10:05 PM
Agree with sonny (about the blood). I do think a knife, a good tactical folder, is more effective close in. The baton requires you to have some leverage and that means distance but not a lot.

The baton might disable, or just probably piss off, with a shot to the ribs or arm. To make it really effective, you do have to whack the BG over the skull. As Drjones relates, that will kill him most likely. The tactical baton with leverage is very deadly.

I would still rather have a knife close in, and a belly gun at baton range. But now we are comparing apples and oranges.

And Drjones, I value your candor and never think you flame.

Gomez
January 4, 2003, 04:46 PM
On the knife VS baton angle, in most jurisdictions the baton is going to be viewed as lethal force, the same as the knife, unless you've had documented training in use of the baton as a less-lethal weapon. That's why it's a good idea to find a class offering the same sort of training that law enforcement go through (ASP basic course, Monadnock Expandable Baton course, PPCT Collapsible Baton course, etc) to establish that you have been trained in less-lethal applications of the stick.

Personally, I carry both a collapsible baton and a couple of knives. There are places for both in my defensive arsenal.

Mikul
January 9, 2003, 03:38 PM
The baton makes a great defensive weapon especially with a knife in the other hand. I wouldn't want the baton without the knife.

HAWK-HKG11
January 20, 2003, 01:01 PM
Does anyone know if ASP has a website? I've been searching all over and the only thing I can find is "Microsoft .ASP". I know monadnock has one (www.batons.com), but you would think such a big company like ASP with its huge product line would have a website. Thanks.

ajacobs
January 20, 2003, 01:31 PM
try searching armament systems and procedures

Hkmp5sd
January 20, 2003, 01:36 PM
As far as I know, ASP aka Armament Systems and Procedures Inc. , does not maintain a website and does not take orders from the general public. You have to contact an authorized dealer such as: Red Diamond (http://red-diamond-unif.com/asp%20batons.htm) .

Parke1
January 21, 2003, 01:18 PM
I know the legality of carrying a baton in MI has already been asked about (and thus far not answered), but does anyone know about Ohio?

I bought a Monadnock Autolock a while ago mainly because I got it for a song, but while I practice with it fairly regularly, I hesitate to carry it anywhere. Anyone know if it's kosher to lug this thing around or not?

Thanks,
Parke1

Beren
January 31, 2003, 11:59 PM
I was trying to find an answer for you in the Ohio code. Found something even more funny, check it out.

ยง 2917.33 Unlawful possession or use of a hoax weapon of mass destruction.

http://onlinedocs.andersonpublishing.com/revisedcode/text.cfm?GRDescription2=revised%20code&GRDescription3=title%2029&GRStructure1=2917&GRStructure2=2917%2E33&TextField=%3CFD%3A%22Section%20Heading%22%3E%3CJD%3A%222917%2E33%22%3E%A7%202917%2E33%20Unlawful%20possession%20or%20use%20of%20a%20hoax%20weapon%20of%20mass%20destruction%2E%3C%2FFD%3A%22Section%20Heading%22%3E

Beren
February 1, 2003, 12:04 AM
Okay, here we go. Check with a criminal lawyer in your state, but until you receive professional advice, do not carry a concealed baton in Ohio.

Relevant bits:

No person shall knowingly carry or have, concealed on his person or concealed ready at hand, any deadly weapon or dangerous ordnance.

Whoever violates this section is guilty of carrying concealed weapons, a misdemeanor of the first degree. (Unless it is a firearm, then it's a felony.)

"Deadly weapon" means any instrument, device, or thing capable of inflicting death, and designed or specially adapted for use as a weapon, or possessed, carried, or used as a weapon.

http://onlinedocs.andersonpublishing.com/revisedcode/home3.cfm?GRDescription1=revised%20code&GRDescription2=title%2029&GRDescription3=title%2029%20prior%20to%207%2D1%2D96&TextField=CHAPTER%202923%3A%20CONSPIRACY%2C%20ATTEMPT%2C%20AND%20COMPLICITY%3B%3CCR%3EWEAPONS%20CONTROL%3B%20CORRUPT%20ACTIVITY&GRStructure1=2923&GRStructure2=

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