Engraving question for SBR.


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Tallbald
July 11, 2010, 10:18 PM
In reading as much as I can on the subject, I think I'm understanding that an SBR ( I plan to form 1 a shoulder stocked handgun I want to make when approved) must be engraved with something special. If so, must the handgun and stock both be serial numbered? Where on the gun and what does it have to say? Can any willing engraving shop do it or must it be a certain type shop? thanks, Don.

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9teenEleven
July 11, 2010, 11:08 PM
Im sure others will chime in. Any shop can do it as long as they do it to spec. There are certain requirements for depth and character size. Orion Arms is the best at it, just send it there. It took them 2 weeks from shipping to showing back up at my door. The stock doesn't need to be engraved just the registered part of the gun. For an AR that is the lower. For a pistol (say a glock) I believe it is the lower, too, though it is a bit harder to engrave plastic so I'm not sure how that is done. Laser engraving I bet.

jmorris
July 11, 2010, 11:36 PM
Much of the information will already be on the receiver, model, caliber, manufacturer. You will need to add your city, state and (trust if you are using one) name. If you are F1 an 80% or from scratch built you will have to engrave all of the above.

I have a buddy that operates a laser engraver as part of his job, a case of beer and it looks better than factory and he can even match fonts.

GoingQuiet
July 12, 2010, 01:05 AM
I'm not sure about how it works on a pistol but I can check.

If I were to do it - it would be on the lower reciever just like a rifle.

Anywhere on the reciever in a conspicuous location is fine. It would read something like "The John Smith Living Trust Lexington, KY" min depth .003 and 1/16th of an inch in height.

cottonmouth
July 13, 2010, 09:18 PM
If I buy an AR lower from a class III dealer and want to build a SBR what should I expect to pay for the transfer and engraving? I can get an Esential Arms lower for around $115 and the stamp is $200, dealer wants another $230 to send it off to get it laser engraved and then transfered.

J.B.

Wahoo95
July 13, 2010, 09:58 PM
Why not just send it off yourself and have it engraved....for $45 or so? donm't be afraid to check with the local cnc machine shops as that's what I did. Got my engraving for $20 and didn't have to send it off or wait :)

mrnkc130
July 14, 2010, 01:30 AM
If I buy an AR lower from a class III dealer and want to build a SBR what should I expect to pay for the transfer and engraving? I can get an Esential Arms lower for around $115 and the stamp is $200, dealer wants another $230 to send it off to get it laser engraved and then transfered.

J.B.

thats a rip off.

you dont need to buy it from a class III dealer, any lower will work. Only reason to buy it from a dealer is if it was already an SBR, only reason to do that was if you were picky about having your own name/trust engraved on it.

Find a lower you like and one that works well (mags drop, tight fitting, etc) send it off to get engraved or find someone in your area (gunsmith/jeweler) and get it engraved, then send off your paperwork and your check.

that will save you $200+

GoingQuiet
July 16, 2010, 02:36 AM
Please do not say "Class III dealer" - say NFA dealer or SOT dealer. It's wrong and I know everyone does it but it's still wrong.

Any stripped lower is fine, you can have Rock River or almost any big name manufacturer have the engraving done with your trust name for an additional charge. I think Rock River charged me $50 one time setup + $5/lower to do engraving for AR15's in company inventory that are set up to go instant Form 4 SBR to customer.

Thats a LOT less than $230. Also bear in mind - min depth MUST be at least .003 deep and 1/16th of an inch in height. I am not sure if laser engraving can meet the depth requirements.

Once you get the proper engraving, fill out your form 1, send it and then when the stamp comes back buy your SBR upper.

mrnkc130
July 16, 2010, 04:23 AM
Please do not say "Class III dealer" - say NFA dealer or SOT dealer. It's wrong and I know everyone does it but it's still wrong.

you should go tell all these guys that....

http://www.subguns.com/c2c3/c2c3.htm

The common misnomer is calling title II weapons "class III" or people saying "you need a class 3 license for that!" I'll assume that is what you are talking about.

Please excuse the "maps google" page, but I'm at work and this is the only way I can access many sites. Here is from the ATF website referring to "Class 3 Dealers" about 3/4 of the way down the page

http://maps.google.com/gwt/x?site=universal&oe=UTF-8&q=%22www.atf.gov%22+class+III&resnum=1&ei=-CBATMCuL9uutgf1g_q2Aw&ved=0CAgQFjAA&hl=en&source=m&rd=1&u=http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/national-firearms-act-firearms.html

and another...

http://maps.google.com/gwt/x?site=universal&oe=UTF-8&q=%22www.atf.gov%22+class+III&resnum=2&ei=sCFATPDXHJyytwepy_q4Aw&ved=0CAoQFjAB&hl=en&source=m&rd=1&u=http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-5320-3.pdf

The whole NFA thing is kinda thier deal, so if they call it Class 3 then I think its correct...

waterhouse
July 16, 2010, 11:37 AM
If I buy an AR lower from a class III dealer and want to build a SBR what should I expect to pay for the transfer and engraving? I can get an Esential Arms lower for around $115 and the stamp is $200, dealer wants another $230 to send it off to get it laser engraved and then transfered.

You don't need to have it transferred from an NFA dealer. You can buy your essential arms lower and just have it send to your regular gun shop, pay their (hopefully) reasonable transfer fee, fill out the form 1 yourself, have it engraved, and slap a short upper on it when your tax stamp arrives in the mail.

General advice is to build up your lower and put a 16+" upper on it, or build it up as a pistol and make sure everything works before doing the form 1. It is rare, but it would suck to pay the tax and then find out your lower is out of spec.

GoingQuiet
July 16, 2010, 05:27 PM
you should go tell all these guys that....

http://www.subguns.com/c2c3/c2c3.htm

The common misnomer is calling title II weapons "class III" or people saying "you need a class 3 license for that!" I'll assume that is what you are talking about.

Please excuse the "maps google" page, but I'm at work and this is the only way I can access many sites. Here is from the ATF website referring to "Class 3 Dealers" about 3/4 of the way down the page

http://maps.google.com/gwt/x?site=universal&oe=UTF-8&q=%22www.atf.gov%22+class+III&resnum=1&ei=-CBATMCuL9uutgf1g_q2Aw&ved=0CAgQFjAA&hl=en&source=m&rd=1&u=http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/national-firearms-act-firearms.html

and another...

http://maps.google.com/gwt/x?site=universal&oe=UTF-8&q=%22www.atf.gov%22+class+III&resnum=2&ei=sCFATPDXHJyytwepy_q4Aw&ved=0CAoQFjAB&hl=en&source=m&rd=1&u=http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-5320-3.pdf

The whole NFA thing is kinda thier deal, so if they call it Class 3 then I think its correct...
MrKc, I wish they'd fix it too. Glocktalk has a "Class III" forum and I'm just headbanging sometimes. My biggest opponent in the war on misinformation is other gun owners.

mrnkc130
July 17, 2010, 01:28 AM
if the ATF refers to a dealer who is not a manufacturer or importer as "class 3" then what reason do you have to say that is incorrect? I'll be glad to believe you and join you in your crusade if you have a good reason and some proof.

GoingQuiet
July 17, 2010, 09:10 PM
Because if you look at the book, the "Class 1, Class 2 and Class 3" iterations of SOT's are clear. The person writing the ATF website got it wrong.

All SOT's are some form of FFL. All FFL's are not dealers. All 01 Dealers who are SOT's are "Special Occupational Taxpayer, Class III"

I know, it is complicated but wrong is wrong on many different levels.

cottonmouth
July 19, 2010, 06:49 PM
Can you ever forgive us............................

J.B.

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