SHOT Day 2 - Smith & Wesson


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TexasRifleman
January 19, 2011, 08:04 PM
Not a lot new here. Handled the Governor. 2.5" bbl, Scandium. They are shipping with a 2 rd moon clip so you can vary the load; 2 rounds 45, 2 rounds .410, then whatever. OK, interesting I suppose.

The S&W rep said "The Governor tells the Judge what to do" lol.

Marketing at it's finest. But, here's the Gov:


http://i895.photobucket.com/albums/ac154/texasrifleman2/sw4.jpg

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TexasRifleman
January 19, 2011, 08:05 PM
M&P .22 Liked this very much.

http://i895.photobucket.com/albums/ac154/texasrifleman2/sw3.jpg

TexasRifleman
January 19, 2011, 08:06 PM
M&P 9

http://i895.photobucket.com/albums/ac154/texasrifleman2/sw1.jpg

avs11054
January 19, 2011, 08:11 PM
I think the S&W rep has it backwards. The judge is way cooler IMO

brandon_mcg
January 19, 2011, 08:17 PM
.22 looks snazzy....i just cant get into the judge or the governor.

LemmyCaution
January 19, 2011, 08:54 PM
More info on the M&P22, please. MSRP? Action? Do they make it without the thumb safety for commonality with other firearms in the M&P line?

It's a handsome pistol.

Justin
January 19, 2011, 09:01 PM
The M&P .22 is very cool. As are the AR-style rifles that Smith is running. Overall their booth was epically cool.

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_OEmBa9Mf4x8/TTdqpL9ByaI/AAAAAAAABo8/qg6LwU-anbo/s800/IMG_6128.JPG

In addition the new hardware on display, they also had a case full of prop guns that had been used in various Hollywood movies. Give you one guess what movie this one was in...

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_OEmBa9Mf4x8/TTdqqnzFwxI/AAAAAAAABpE/s4QF9PBzLDk/s800/IMG_6130.JPG

magnumman44
January 19, 2011, 09:33 PM
Of course, Dirty Harry...but what stands out in this picture to me is the picture of the Winchester Compound bow...are they making them now??? I sure didn't know anything about it!

bratch
January 19, 2011, 10:57 PM
Is the M&P22 a 1:1 replica of the fullsize? How did weight compare? Any chance to dry fire if so how did the trigger compare?

If you can't tell this is the item I'm most excited about this year.

atlp99
January 19, 2011, 11:03 PM
I would like to know more about the M&P 22 also.

Secondly does the tan M&P still use the melonite treated stainless slide under the tan and what coating are they using for the tan?

Birdmang
January 19, 2011, 11:15 PM
Governer: six rounds three calibers

.410, 45 colt and what else?

W.E.G.
January 19, 2011, 11:16 PM
bleah... very disappointing

I big fat clod-pistol, and a baby-poo M&P

Whoever is making handgun decisions presently at Smith and Wesson needs to have his ears boxed.

Justin
January 19, 2011, 11:28 PM
The M&P is a phenomenal handgun design, so I can't say that I'd blame S&W for going with what works.

Sent from my Android smart phone using Tapatalk.

Hanzo581
January 19, 2011, 11:34 PM
Wait so no one is jumping on S&W for obviously copying the Judge, but Ruger gets dumped on for the LCP and LC9?

W.E.G.
January 19, 2011, 11:49 PM
I'm happy for S&W that they have a plastic pistol that is competitive with the other plastic pistols.

I own a few plastic pistols myself.
Admirable for their functionality and economy,... but otherwise charmless.

If I were equipping a police department, I would buy nothing but inexpensive, plastic pistols.
If I had to carry it around on my hip all day, every day, the lightweight plastic is definitely the answer.

I guess its just too expensive and impractical to build many guns like they used to.

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd7/rkba2da/pistol%20pics/SW%20659/659withammobox.jpg

TexasRifleman
January 20, 2011, 02:38 AM
.410, 45 colt and what else?

And .45 ACP with the supplied 2 round moon clips. Crazy....

Oyeboten
January 20, 2011, 03:25 AM
Governer: six rounds three calibers

.410, 45 colt and what else?


.450 Adams...or maybe .45 Auto-Rim?


Bet it feels great to be an 'also ran' eating Taurus dust.


Eeeeeesh...I feel embarassed for them at this point.

Oyeboten
January 20, 2011, 03:33 AM
bleah... very disappointing

I big fat clod-pistol, and a baby-poo M&P

Whoever is making handgun decisions presently at Smith and Wesson needs to have his ears boxed.


It is sad.

If I had a nickle for every moron CEO in America today...

...In fact, the terms moron, and, CEO are pretty well interchangable anymore.


This is the drooling diapered senile dimentia phase of what once was Genius, invention, innovation, otiginality, Industrial Know how, Manufacturing might, and real accomplishment and pride of accomplishment.

All paunchy middle managers muching Tums now, parasiting on the sodden schemes, and, sitting on their fat moddled cabooses at particleboard desks, and...well, oye, yeeeeesh...glad I do not work there...

Same with Colt, what's left of them...



Sad

Sam1911
January 20, 2011, 08:53 AM
Wouldn't it be great if S&W just stuck to what they did best way back in the 1980s? Why, if only they would keep making heavy all-metal 9mm autos with an olde-tyme DA/SA trigger system, why they could sell a handful of them to the old folks who pine for the good old days. Why, that aught to keep the company in business!

It just sucks that S&W doesn't make museum replicas of what was relevant way back when, and are so stupid, old, impotent, and doddering, that they insist on making very capable modern service sidearms that compete successfully with the most relevant, modern designs available. Shame on them for making the kind of guns law enforcement agencies want to equip their officers with! Shame on them for making the kind of guns that competition shooters use to push the limits of speed and skill.

Boy are they dumb. They're so stupid that they might just survive instead of fading into irrelevance (*cough*... COLT...*cough*).

Design moves forward. Designs become MORE SIMILAR as we understand more about human mechanics and ergonomics. As we constantly test and retest and experiment with how humans shoot -- specifically, how to get the most effective hits in the least amount of time -- gun designs will continue to evolve toward a set of optimum characteristics.

To say innovation has to be, above all else, radically different than what came before is wrong-headed. If what exists is close to perfect, than innovation should be in continued refinement of that concept. Not in revisiting the grande olde past, or diverging from what works bestest for the mostest, just for the sake of being different.

kwelz
January 20, 2011, 08:54 AM
Expanding the M&P line is a great decision.
I find the revolver silly and useless. But plenty of people out there are buying them so it is a good business decision to make one.

I don't see the problem here.

highorder
January 20, 2011, 09:06 AM
Any word on a .22lr upper for the M&P9? (from S&W, Tacsol, or anyone?)

That would be great news!

gym
January 20, 2011, 10:13 AM
What's the msrp on the Gov? Taurus may still have the edge if the gun is a thousand dollar revolver like most of their revolver line, but I do like the 45ACP, only because it runs the same ammo as my auto.

Sam1911
January 20, 2011, 10:18 AM
but I do like the 45ACP, only because it runs the same ammo as my auto.

So you'd buy a gun with 3" long chambers to fire .45ACP out of?

Like, on purpose?

Yo Mama
January 20, 2011, 10:18 AM
S & W, yawn, yawn, yawn :banghead:

How much you bet the M&P .22 has a slide made of zinc?

Old Fuff
January 20, 2011, 10:26 AM
The polymer pistols are unquestionably practical and increasingly popular. Beyond that there isn't much more to say. Maybe there is no reason to say more.

The featured revolver may offer an additional market for X-frames, and maybe sell like hotcakes. But it doesn't ring my bell. I suppose I belong to the wrong generation. As I see it innovation moves very slowly and is mostly centered on cutting manufacturing costs.

I shouldn't nit-pick Smith & Wesson, as they're competitors are in the same boat. :(

Steve H
January 20, 2011, 10:29 AM
Any word on the "new" Colt Mustang?

W.E.G.
January 20, 2011, 10:30 AM
Wouldn't it be great if S&W just stuck to what they did best way back...

I'd be OK with that.

Although, I'm OK with them selling the "plastic pistols" too.

All-steel auto-loaders do seem to have been abandoned for now.
Meantime, if you got the dough, you can still get a REALLY NICE revolver from S&W.
Well,... unless the parts are MIM...

Too bad the stench of that shotgun-pistol is detracting from Smith and Wesson line of CLASSIC REVOLVERS. (http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Category4_750001_750051_757779_-1_757751_757751_image#http%3A%2F%2Fwww.smith-wesson.com%2Fwebapp%2Fwcs%2Fstores%2Fservlet%2FCategoryOnlyResultsDisplayView%3FuseFilter%3D%26top_category%3D757751%26parent_category_rn%3D757751%26beginIndex%3D0%26langId%3D-1%26storeId%3D750001%26filterResults%3D%26pageView%3Dimage%26catalogId%3D750051%26pageSize%3D16%26categoryId%3D757779%26categoryId%3D757779%26identifier%3D1295537149726)

InkEd
January 20, 2011, 11:17 AM
In all fairness to The Governor, they had to release it to compete with The Judge. It has been a huge success for Taurus. The same goes for the New Bodyguard against the LCR.

I think the new M&P pistols are pretty good and are helping S&W regain some law enforcement sales. Also, everyone has to make an AR and a 1911 too. So okay. However, what they really need to do IMHO at Smith and Wesson is start offering more (if not all) version of their revolvers without the ILS. they could even charge extra for NOT having it. People should have a choice on their new guns.

Derek Zeanah
January 20, 2011, 12:13 PM
In all fairness to The Governor, they had to release it to compete with The Judge. It has been a huge success for Taurus. The same goes for the New Bodyguard against the LCR. I'm afraid I have to agree here. These weapons are absolutely not for me, and I find it difficult to find a role for these revolvers that some other gun doesn't serve more admirably, but the market is pretty clear here. While it makes no sense to many of us, there are people who really want to buy these things.

And gun manufacturers exist to sell guns. Sell the people what they want.

msrtex
January 20, 2011, 02:29 PM
Any word on the "new" Colt Mustang?
Gun Websites has a video and in it the Colt rep is stating and showing the re-introduction of the Colt Mustang.

TexasRifleman
January 20, 2011, 03:05 PM
No talk of a new Colt Mustang at their booth but I only talked to one rep for a couple of minutes.

chicharrones
January 21, 2011, 08:09 AM
(*cough*... COLT...*cough*)

http://bestsmileys.com/lol/16.gifhttp://bestsmileys.com/lol/16.gifhttp://bestsmileys.com/lol/16.gif

Sam1911
January 21, 2011, 08:30 AM
(*cough*... COLT...*cough*)

http://bestsmileys.com/lol/16.gifhttp://bestsmileys.com/lol/16.gifhttp://bestsmileys.com/lol/16.gif

Yep. If you want to see a company go down a really disappointing route, look at Colt who has for the last 20 years almost failed to even try to put interesting products in the hands of the shooting public.

A company who's once wonderful OLD products were the stuff of legend, but now are pretty much an after-thought in any discussion of relevant, competitive, innovative firearms design -- except among collectors of objets d'art.

Colt is sort of the latter day Elvis of the gun world.

S&W is more like Metallica. Lots of old school fans who liked the early stuff a LOT better, and claim they'll never buy anything past the "And Justice..." album -- but still putting out a very good product that many people really like, and which stands tall among the modern competition.

chicharrones
January 21, 2011, 08:51 AM
I actually like what Colt still has to offer, so if I offended any Colt enthusiasts it wasn't intentional.

Your point was loud and clear though, Sam. S&W is doing a good job of moving ahead with a balance of guns of the classics and the modern.

chicharrones
January 21, 2011, 09:05 AM
BTW, I like the Governor. I remember getting my first handgun decades ago and I decided on a 6" barrel .357 magnum due to ability to use .38 special ammo. As you all know, 2 caliber flexibility can be a good thing.

The Governor could be an excellent first handgun for the new gun buyer, or the old gun buyer. The odds are pretty good that any gun shop or sporting goods store is going to have at least one of those 2 calibers or 1 gauge on hand.

The Governor seems to be a great jack-of-all-trades gun. For many people, jack-of-all-trades is exactly what they are looking for in a gun. 3-guns in one, I love it.

Now it just comes down to price. How much does S&W want for that Governor anyway? :confused:

Six
January 21, 2011, 09:29 AM
S&W is more like Metallica. Lots of old school fans who liked the early stuff a LOT better, and claim they'll never buy anything past the "And Justice..." album -- but still putting out a very good product that many people really like, and which stands tall among the modern competition.

Well, Metallica didn't put out any album after Justice.

Just like Ruger hasn't made any revolvers since the Speed/Security/Service Six series.

LALALALALALA I can't hear you.

Six
January 21, 2011, 09:43 AM
On the M&P .22, is the frame and mechanism the same as the full sized ones?

TexasRifleman
January 21, 2011, 12:58 PM
So I was at the other Colt booth, the Colt Defense boith, and there sat a brand new shiny Mustang :)

Skylerbone
January 21, 2011, 01:29 PM
I'm wondering if the sights from that VTAC M&P will be avail. separately, tritium and FO without TruGlo fragility would be great. Sign me up for 2.

BlayGlock
January 21, 2011, 01:36 PM
Colt is sort of the latter day Elvis of the gun world.

That is sig line worthy.

Skylerbone
January 21, 2011, 03:14 PM
There's a whole SHOT thread to discuss Colts, Sigs and everything non-S&W. Some of us who still buy Smiths are interested in their new offerings and not who likes what they no longer make.

Thank you for keeping on thread.

SoulLessGinger
January 21, 2011, 04:40 PM
The Governor...laughable.

Its like the Judge, only it sucks in 3 calibers instead of just 2.

chuckdeez
January 21, 2011, 06:45 PM
On the M&P .22, is the frame and mechanism the same as the full sized ones?
need moar info on these. It appears a few others do too. Maybe a hands on type of review? Someone is getting my money this year on a 'combat style' .22 pistol. I already have a 617 for serious shooting, but "need" another fun gun.

JohnBT
January 21, 2011, 07:38 PM
Any new colors in the S&W bicycle line? :uhoh:

www.policebikestore.com/smithwessonbikes.htm

Bonesinium
January 21, 2011, 07:48 PM
I think the M&P .22 could be quite popular with people who already own a M&P. I know I'm interested. Why wouldn't I want a pistol that has the same characteristics of my centerfire pistol with the ability to shoot lots and lots of ammo cheaply!? It of course isn't going to be exactly the same thing as shooting the real deal, but the more practice you can get the more it will help. As much as I would like to be able to shoot unlimited amounts of my 9mm or .45, I am not made of money. 3.5 cents a round with an extra (whatever the price will be) vs 20 cents a round...

MikePGS
January 21, 2011, 09:18 PM
Interesting on the .45 acp aspect of it, but a judge ripoff is a judge ripoff. And the Judge isn't something I'd be interested in in the first place. Regardless, thanks for the pictures :D

bluetopper
January 21, 2011, 09:19 PM
Never thought I'd see the day that S&W copied Taurus, as it was the other way around for decades.
As was stated prior, they really had to, to take advantage of that market that Taurus created.

And Old Full hit the nail square on the head again, I'm sorry to say, when he stated firearms innovation now days is mostly centered around cost cutting.

orionengnr
January 21, 2011, 09:26 PM
Did you miss the bobtailed S&W 1911?
I've seen pics of it in other threads, and it's on their website.

I want one...badly.
I can shoot and carry it while I continue to work on my DW Bobtail, trying to get it to function as designed. Six months (so far) and counting.

brandon_mcg
January 21, 2011, 09:34 PM
was in the gun shop today and they were asking about SHOT show news so i told them about the "governor". I've never seen people get so excited about a copy. they stated "its made by smith and wesson so it must be good!" I chuckled and walked out.

farscott
January 22, 2011, 12:10 PM
After seeing how many Judges get sold at my local FFL, I cannot blame S&W for entering the market as there is money being left on the table. That being said, the Governor name is just stupid. Give it a model number as opposed to proving to everyone that the S&W is just a Taurus copy. And market the darn thing as an example of S&W quality by engineering in some improvements. Figure out a way to rifle the barrel for the .45s while providing a shot pattern without a doughnut hole.

CamaroLovr
January 22, 2011, 04:35 PM
That being said, the Governor name is just stupid. Give it a model number as opposed to proving to everyone that the S&W is just a Taurus copy. And market the darn thing as an example of S&W quality by engineering in some improvements. Figure out a way to rifle the barrel for the .45s while providing a shot pattern without a doughnut hole.

This^. The copying is ridiculous. I understand trying to make money but I thought S&W was a little classier than that. At least prove they are high end gun manufacturers and improve the design. The PDX rounds would help with the doughnut hole effect of the rifling as well. As much as I don't like the Governor though, I think they have really stepped up their 1911 line with the bobtails. Huge fan of those! All in all, at least they are changing it up a bit.

jwgml
January 23, 2011, 07:35 PM
Release date for M&P 22lr? I was hoping they would do this. This would be great for training and for my wallet. Thanks.

Zundfolge
January 23, 2011, 07:43 PM
I personally don't have a use for a .410 revolver, but if I owned S&W stock I'd be glad to see it.

Skylerbone
January 23, 2011, 09:09 PM
Amazing how many people "don't like" or are "laughing off" a firearm they have yet to set eyes on.

Just because YOU don't need a specific pistol does not disqualify it as practical for others. I'm sure many misguided buyers will waste their money, same as every other market segment. Thank goodness the ATF isn't asking what specific purpose each firearm I own has.

What? Bobtail? Copy. 1911? Copy. New revolver? Copy. New AR? Copy. How classless is that? Guess they better shut the doors until they reinvent the wheel.

bds
January 24, 2011, 02:01 AM
More info on the M&P22, please. ... Do they make it without the thumb safety
It's fairly easy to remove the thumb safety. And please, no comments about removing safety devices from pistols as M&Ps come with/without the safety.

Really interested in the M&P22 myself too. :D

W L Johnson
January 24, 2011, 09:59 AM
Really interested in the M&P22 myself too.
Me three, with the thumb safety, just like my other M&P. If you don't like a thumb safety then don't use it, it's really that simple.

Gaiudo
January 24, 2011, 04:47 PM
The reason I like the thumb safety stems from the first time I went to holster my M&P 40 into a stiff new holster... and promptly jacked a round across the room when I involuntarily cycled the slide. After carrying a 1911 for years the slide lockup is a benefit to me, not a hindrance.

IsoMAcK
January 24, 2011, 11:22 PM
The Governor will likely be Mass compliant, while the Taurus Judge (or any Taurus, for that matter) is not. Personally, I have no use for a .410 in anything but a long barrel, but I can see how making it available to mass residents would account for a number of initial sales where Taurus can not compete.

I think that they really should have given it a number rather than that governor name, though. Sounds like an also-ran with that name to me.

Smith & Wesson 326, perhaps? :)

Skylerbone
January 25, 2011, 12:45 AM
The 4510 <deleted> ! would be more appropriate. I could see a guy living in snake country falling in love with a pistol like this, especially if he currently totes around a scatter gun. Yeah birdshot in a .357 is probably fine but at the price of a 686...hmm.

Then again, if it's a big cat or bear I'd be glad for the extra firepower and one more hole in the cylinder than the Judge brings.

JFL77
January 25, 2011, 02:31 AM
I was really hoping to see a midsize M&P9mm w/15 rounds (G19 size). I wonder if anyone asked S&W if they're considering something like this?

John Wayne
January 25, 2011, 11:06 AM
Is the M&P .22 a dedicated gun or will it be offered as a conversion slide as well?

Chris Rhines
January 25, 2011, 11:13 AM
The M&P22 is a dedicated gun. I don't think that the frame internals interchange with the rest of the M&P series.

-C

Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk

TexasRifleman
January 25, 2011, 11:16 AM
The M&P22 is a dedicated gun. I don't think that the frame internals interchange with the rest of the M&P series.

That's correct. I believe the gun is made for S&W by Umarex. They make a lot of these .22 "replicas" for lack of a better word.

Taurus44
January 25, 2011, 01:13 PM
The M&P 22 is made by Walther for S&W. There will be 10 and 12 round versions available, it has an aluminum slide and (what appears to be) a threaded barrel (a la P22). Should be available in the March/April time frame, and a lot of online retailers already have it on their sites and/or in their catalogs...

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/72003

No real word on the internals and/or removing the safety.

Personally, I plan on buying the first one I see in stock anywhere. :D

Jimmy_B
January 25, 2011, 01:35 PM
The reason I like the thumb safety stems from the first time I went to holster my M&P 40 into a stiff new holster... and promptly jacked a round across the room when I involuntarily cycled the slide. After carrying a 1911 for years the slide lockup is a benefit to me, not a hindrance.

I don't think the safety on an M&P locks the slide like it does on a 1911.

bds
January 25, 2011, 10:50 PM
I don't think the safety on an M&P locks the slide like it does on a 1911.
Yes, the safety on M&P blocks the trigger bar only and does nothing for the slide.

NOFRILLSHUNTER
January 26, 2011, 12:00 AM
I can't believe S&W would bother copying Taurus. It should be the other way around. I still don’t see the advantage of a 410 handgun.

Derek Zeanah
January 26, 2011, 06:20 AM
I still don’t see the advantage of a 410 handgun.I think the advantage is that people want them. Taurus identified a market that nobody knew existed, and now more manufacturers are catering to this market.

It's a good thing. Though I still don't really see the purpose of these. Of course, the carbines might be fun...

Old Fuff
January 26, 2011, 10:43 AM
For lack of a better name, I call these “novelty guns.” They defy definition when it comes to associating one to any useful purpose, but people buy them because they are… well… let’s say cool, and attract attention if your at a shooting range, or just gabbing with the guys before watching the big game on T.V.

That said, I think Smith & Wesson’s marketing people are brain-dead, because the name “Governor” is not one that will appeal to the market this product’s aimed at. They would expect (and like) something more like “Final Terminator.”

At this time in his life the Old Fuff is well over the hill, and this kind of handgun (by any name) doesn’t ring his bell… :D

millertyme
January 26, 2011, 11:24 AM
Really, they spent all of day two for a couple pistols?

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