SHOT Day 3 - R&R Racing Saiga Shotguns


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Justin
January 20, 2011, 06:59 PM
R&R Racing (http://www.randrtargets.com/saiga_shotgun_main.htm) is an outfit that modifies Saiga shotguns with an eye towards 3 Gun competition. Very cool shotguns all around.

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_OEmBa9Mf4x8/TTjJUxuOagI/AAAAAAAABrU/EQz-mtqu_7g/s800/IMG_6176.JPG

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_OEmBa9Mf4x8/TTjJVnCdtbI/AAAAAAAABrY/-hKZr8Ji8CM/s800/IMG_6177.JPG

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_OEmBa9Mf4x8/TTjJV2J4y3I/AAAAAAAABrc/2kNy7U1Z_2o/s800/IMG_6178.JPG

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_OEmBa9Mf4x8/TTjJV8CHlpI/AAAAAAAABrg/vZuEErJgqJg/s800/IMG_6179.JPG

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_OEmBa9Mf4x8/TTjL_eMUJsI/AAAAAAAABrw/wjyYMozh4ys/s800/IMG_6183.JPG

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_OEmBa9Mf4x8/TTjL_rf3WdI/AAAAAAAABr0/zFRvPpeIKNg/s800/IMG_6184.JPG

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_OEmBa9Mf4x8/TTjNK-81k9I/AAAAAAAABsM/w09jW4TQqp0/s800/IMG_6175.JPG

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Geneseo1911
January 20, 2011, 10:36 PM
Are they producing their own mags & wells?

Z-Michigan
January 20, 2011, 10:43 PM
What is the angular black thing about 2/3 of the way down the barrel, marked "JP"?

Looks vaguely like a brake, but I've never seen a brake in the middle of a barrel before.

Gord
January 20, 2011, 11:03 PM
I have. Looks like a brake to me, but it's huge, so I'm guessing it's also intended as a barrel weight. Wonder what these setups cost?

Zanad
January 20, 2011, 11:48 PM
Don't quote on this but I believe I saw one of these things reviewed in a gun rag and I think they gave a price of around $2300.

71Commander
January 21, 2011, 07:35 AM
I think the mags are around 100 each.

lobo9er
January 21, 2011, 07:42 AM
does a brake like that really help out?

Justin
January 21, 2011, 09:51 PM
Yes, its a brake made by JP. Robbie, the builder of the shotguns is an active competitive 3gun shooter. If the brake didn't work, he wouldn't put them on there.

By all accounts the brakes are very loud and have a tendecy to toss some material out of the baffles.

Sent from my Android smart phone using Tapatalk.

FIVETWOSEVEN
January 21, 2011, 10:27 PM
Looks like they are modifying Saiga magazines.

Justin
January 21, 2011, 10:58 PM
They're the Surefire Saiga magazines.

R&R Targets
January 22, 2011, 09:57 PM
R&R makes all the anodized parts on these guns. The compensator is also made by R&R based on an original design by JP Enterprises and with their permission. The comp is very effective, but is somewhat loud and some debris may be ejected, but not lead, mostly very small carbon and plastic fragments in addition to the gas. The SGM (Surefire) mags that we use are trimmed with a CNC mill to make them all uniform. 12 round mags are $59 and the 20 round mags are $175.

Doug

Justin
January 22, 2011, 10:10 PM
Hi Doug-

Thanks for dropping by to fill us in, especially on the details I messed up.

R&R Targets
January 22, 2011, 10:16 PM
I just registered, guess I'll spend a little time on here, looks good!

Doug

mcdonl
January 22, 2011, 10:19 PM
I love Saigas.... and these are pretty special!

lobo9er
January 23, 2011, 10:12 AM
By all accounts the brakes are very loud and have a tendecy to toss a couple of pellets out of the baffles.



is that a good thing for pellets to be shot out of it? Sounds like a design flaw.

Radagast
January 23, 2011, 10:18 AM
lobo9er:
See post 11, by the manufacturer. according to him lead fragments are not a problem.

Geneseo1911
January 23, 2011, 10:36 AM
is that a good thing for pellets to be shot out of it? Sounds like a design flaw.

The comp is very effective, but is somewhat loud and some debris may be ejected, but not lead, mostly very small carbon and plastic fragments in addition to the gas

The ported barrels on the trap guns of all the old guys at my local sportsman's club do the same thing. It's a little shocking when you get hit in the face by a little chunk of carbon, but it doesn't really hurt. I'm sure these do it with more regularity, but I wouldn't lose any sleep over it.

Besides, these guns are made for a shooting discipline that doesn't involve people standing next to you.

Gaiudo
January 23, 2011, 05:00 PM
I wonder if this might be used as an argument that Saiga fits the Sporting purposes; given that ruling from BATFE that's coming out tomorrow.

Girodin
January 23, 2011, 07:34 PM
What is the angular black thing about 2/3 of the way down the barrel, marked "JP"?

It is a mid barrel brake. People have been putting them on saigas for some time. They are said to work much better than brakes attached at the end of the barrel. Its not the type of modification I would be putting on anything other than a gun intended for open class 3 gun and in search of every advantage.

Their open class gun is $3200+ according to their website.

A lot of work goes into a gun like that, particularly to get it to run right. A mid barrel brake requires modifying the gas system to maintain reliability. If you look at those guns you'll not they have had the gas system shortened. Getting the gas wrong could mean unreliability on one end or beating the gun to death on the other. It is a lot of work to shorten the gas system and getting it right is probably even more. There is a lot more going on with that gun than just the brake and the gas system as well.

I know Tromix once said they weren't going to build race guns because people would laugh if they charged enough to cover what they really had invested in them in time.

I personally don't have a lot of interest in these guns (if I was into seriously competitive open class 3 gun I might) but I do have a lot of interest in their AR style safeties, that is something I would like to add to at least of one of my guns.

The bottom gun is a breacher supposedly built at the request of the FBI. Tromix built one for them as well.

I wonder if this might be used as an argument that Saiga fits the Sporting purposes; given that ruling from BATFE that's coming out tomorrow.

No for a few reasons. I'd write more but it is sheer speculation that any of that even deals with the S12 anyways so I prefer not to fuel it and I suggest you do the same.

Justin
January 24, 2011, 12:55 PM
I wonder if this might be used as an argument that Saiga fits the Sporting purposes; given that ruling from BATFE that's coming out tomorrow.


Despite the presence of time limits, winners, losers, sponsors, trophies, brightly colored jerseys, and even national tv coverage, BATFE does not consider any form of action shooting to be a sport.

Gaiudo
January 24, 2011, 05:21 PM
Unreal

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