Bottle neck cartridges


January 25, 2003, 07:59 PM
It used to be "common knowledge" that bottle neck cartridges wouldn't work in a revolver. Set back tying up the cylinder etc. I notice that several companies are selling revolvers for bottle neck cartridges (.22 Hornet, .218 Bee & .17 HMR) now. I guess my question is, what changed?


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January 25, 2003, 08:12 PM
All three of those, along with the .25-20, the .32-20, the .38-40 and the 44-40, all have very slight tapers and barely qualify for the description of "bottleneck".

Sharper shoulders make for more extreme case stretching. Additionally, all of those rounds are fairly low-pressure in the grand scheme of things. Regular shoulder cases are made that way in an effort to increase case capacity, generally in pursuit of higher velocity, which in turn leads towards higher operating pressures during load development.

Mike Irwin
January 26, 2003, 02:05 AM
I'm not sure, but I don't think there ever was a revolver chambered in .25-20.

Chuck Petty has an article on reloading the .25-20 in the most recent issue of American Rifleman, and his opinion is that the neck on the .25-20 is probably too sharp to be an effective revolver round.

The .25-20 has a neck angle of over 16 degrees, the .32-20 and the .22 Hornet both just a little over 5 degrees. BIG difference.

Porter Rockwell
January 27, 2003, 03:58 AM
Hello, just for sake of arguement, have you read P.O. Ackleys books? You surely remember Ackleys improved .22 Jet that eliminated the cases backing out? The improved neck angle is 29.88 degrees
BTW, my book (Donnelly-Handloaders Manual of Cartridge Conversions) shows a shoulder angle of 7.85 degrees
I can't believe I got all these books out!

Mike Irwin
January 27, 2003, 11:21 AM

Reread my message, and you'll see that I'm not arguing anything for the sake of arguing.

Only reporting that:

A) To the best of my knowedge that no revolvers have ever been chambered for the .25-20, and

B) What Chuck Petty said in his recent article in American Rifleman, and

C) There's a big difference in the neck angles of these cartridges.

Beyond that, don't know, don't really care. If it shoots when I pull the trigger, I'm more than happy.

January 27, 2003, 03:16 PM
Chamberd a 25-20 revolver, at least an experemental one.
Only read a passing reference to one with no fireing data a long while ago, but something to check out;) .

Porter Rockwell
January 27, 2003, 04:12 PM
Perhaps I should have used a few smileys, I really didn't look through a half dozen books to generate the snide and inaccurate coment.
You brought up shoulder angles and so I looked hem up
BTW Mike, C. Petty posts at Sports.Rec and is more comedian than gun writer (IMO), an example is his sudden discovery that Wilsons 1911 mags just ain't up to snuff now that he's got the new Nowlins.
Bottleneck when designed properly work great in sixguns, Reeder even chambers them.

Wil Terry
January 27, 2003, 04:15 PM
Or so I have been told.
On an individual basis sharp shoudered cartridges can be made to work very well in a sixgun.
I once had a S+W M53 with interchangable barrels in 22LR, 22MAG, 22JET, and 22 COTTERMAN SUPER JET.
The 22MAG and 22SUPERJET shot great. The latter worked perfectly at quite high velocities but I handloaded the ammunition to do so as it fit the cylinder's charge holes perfectly; that is impossible to do with factory ammunition.
The 32/20, 38/40, 44/40 etc work well in properly chambered sixguns because they have no shoulder per se'. That long gradual slope works just fine then and can do the same now in the 357/44 B+D and other such cartridges with a shallow sloping shoulder.
This latter noted cartridge came within an eyelash of being adapted a few years ago by S+W....NO FOOLIN'!!

Mike Irwin
January 27, 2003, 05:04 PM

Don't know why Chuck would be making funny about the neck angles on the .25-20 in a reloading article in Rifleman.

The neck angles I quoted came out of Hornady No. 4 reloading manual and Cartridges of the World.

Mike Irwin
January 27, 2003, 05:07 PM

Hum... If S&W made revolvers in .25-20 in stainless, it would have been likely in the 1960s, which I find kind of hard to fathom.

In the 1960s the .25-20 was pretty much in the grave. The .25-20 didn't start making a comeback until the late 1980s.

I'll have to ask Rick Nahaus about this next time I see him.

January 27, 2003, 05:14 PM
Since I was the one making the brash claim about the .25-20, I will back up Mike Irwin. Upon reflection, the only .25-20 revolver I can think of is a vaguely remembered mention of a Colt SAA I read about, which I could very well be misremembering. I've certainly never seen one.

Therefore, I'm perfectly willing to stand corrected. However, Taurus has just released a Raging Bee, and also chambered their medium-frame 12"-barreled Silhouette revolver in the .218 Bee, which is a necked-down .32- or .25-20 if I remember right. That would imply an even sharper shoulder than the .25-20, but I haven't got any references on it, and I know nothing of how well the Taurus guns might deal with it. They're both new releases, and NIETHER of them are on the Cal-DOJ Certified Hostage List. :fire:

Shuffles off grumbling, hands in pockets, kicks pebble in disgust. "Stupid state."

Mike Irwin
January 27, 2003, 05:17 PM
Taurus is starting to become just a little annoying with their "Raging" cartridges...

What next? Raging Mouse for the mouse gun lovers?

Raging Gnat?

Raging Amoeba?


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