Walmart 870?


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Beren
January 31, 2003, 09:24 AM
Are the 870's sold at Walmart any less in quality than the ones you could buy new elsewhere? I know alot of folks say that the older 870's are higher quality than the new ones..but of the new production models, are the Wally World Specials of lower quality? Or are they just cheaper due to mass purchases?

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hutch24
January 31, 2003, 11:33 AM
I've been wonder this very same thing lately only with Kmart not walmart. For kmarts going out of business sale up here they have an 870 on sale for $250, I don't know that much about the pricing on shotguns but it looks like a good deal to me if their on the same quality. :confused:

2nd Amendment
January 31, 2003, 12:04 PM
Mass buying power of course results in lower prices. However, there has always been the claim that Wally World and such also buy the rifles and shotguns that fail various appearance related QC requirements. I doubt you'd find anything that fails to function correctly but you might notice the fit and finish being less than normal quality.

Omaha-BeenGlockin
January 31, 2003, 12:18 PM
The only difference is the price.

RussB
January 31, 2003, 12:26 PM
there has always been the claim that Wally World and such also buy the rifles and shotguns that fail various appearance related QC requirements
Truth? Or just another internet rumor.

Sounds like BS to me

Cthulhu
January 31, 2003, 02:50 PM
As a disgruntled ex-Wal-Mart employee, allow me to fuel those rumors of inferior-quality goods. The guns stocked by Wal-Mart, in many cases, would fail to meet QC standards of standard production guns. While working sporting goods, I saw shotguns and rifles from Remington that were rusty, missing pieces (pins, sling swivels, choke tubes, and even sights), and even non-functioning. A couple 870's would not pump due to burred and deformed action bars, 1187's and 1100's were missing O-Rings or had cracked forestocks.

Wal-Marts buying power allows them to demand manufacturers eager for their business to produce guns that sell for a minimum price point. To reach these goals, the companies cut costs by deleting features and reducing QC standards. Sometimes they will farm out production work to other companies just to make the production contracts required to sell to Wal-Mart, and QC slips as a result. Until recently Remington produced runs of 12ga 1100 Express soley for sales at Wal-Mart. These bargain basement models with synthetic stocks and a parkerized finish sold for as little as $300. Most of the ones I saw were rusty out of the box, or had to be sent in for repair shortly after purchase (broken extractors/ failure to cycle).

The Beretta 390 carried there was another bottom of the line model made to Wal-Mart specs. They lack the roll engraving or the left side action release that even the plainest model 390's have. Luckily, they still worked pretty well. I remember ordering a 390 for a customer because we had run out of stock; the special order gun was far better put together, and had the aforementioned accoutrements lacking on the ones we normally stocked.
Similarly, Many Charles Daly, Weatherby (Howa), Mossberg, and Marlin guns were stocked that were inferior in workmanship and QC to ones you see in a gunshop (I currently work weekends in one of the largest gunshops in the area, so I see them come in straight from the distributor).
Guns aren't the only product that suffers in the quest for lower costs, but thats for another forum.
Caveat Emptor, Wal-Mart shoppers.

2nd Amendment
January 31, 2003, 05:28 PM
Well, that pretty much trumps any reply I was going to make. I will say, though, that K-Mart was embroiled in a product liability suit back in the early 90's over this same sort of thing. Well before the internet came along.

These corporations have the buying power to demand what they want. The big drawback I see for the producer is it would seem letting QC slide, even for huge orders, might damage public image. Not everybody buys from Wally World and not everybody who does buys only from there. If my Wally World Mossy sucked, or the one a friend bought from there, would I buy one from a gun shop at a higher price later? Not.

Guyon
January 31, 2003, 06:05 PM
Well, I bought one of those Wal-Mart 1100s. Mine was lubed and in perfect condition. All I've done to it is add a butt pad and change out the safety. It's shot hundreds of rounds and half-a-dozen dove shoots without a hitch. Lots of folks on TFL bought the 1100s when they went down to $328 and lower. I haven't heard any complaints.

The morale here is: Inspect it carefully before you buy it. Wal-Mart may sell some junk, but I won't pay for it. I gave my 1100 a thorough going over before I bought it.

Dave McCracken
January 31, 2003, 09:31 PM
S'funny,we had dozens of folks on that 1100 thread who bought one, and I cannot recall any gripes at all. All who posted seemed quite happy with their purchases. And considering the thread ran over 1K responses and was up for months, some dis-satisfied customer would certainly have spoken up...

HSMITH
February 1, 2003, 12:51 AM
I call BS. Remington does not make "orders". The make "runs", and a run will satisfy ALL orders and stock requirements. There is NO difference between the guns at walmart and the guns at the gunshop when the same model is concerned. Those same no-frills models are available at many chains, and are made by the same people on the same equipment to the same standards that any other gun is made to.

rugerfreak
February 1, 2003, 03:57 AM
I have a Lipsey's 10/22 Walmart only special--that is becoming some what a collectors item these days.

And have bought 870's and Mossy 500's that were all just fine---NO DIFFERENT THAN ANY OTHER SHOP.

Thinking Cthulhu--- needs to quit sniffing the Hoppes so much and start taking gunshop BS with a grain of salt.

Marshall
February 1, 2003, 06:00 AM
All you have to do is look in a Gun Traders Book or equivalent, they list all the 870's and none of them list Wal Mart Specials! :neener:

Lone Star
February 1, 2003, 08:48 AM
In Texas, we have a chain of stores called Oshman's. The guns there are standard items, but are so carelessly cared for by many employees that I've seen rust on them and broken or missing parts wouldn't surprise me. This is due to employee theft and neglect, and it may well happen at Wal-Mart, etc., too.

Always check out guns you buy VERY carefully, no matter where you buy. The better stores will usually have less tomfoolery by employees, but it can happen anywhere.

Lone Star

Guyon
February 1, 2003, 10:29 AM
Employee neglect is another matter. I've seen that plenty at Wal-Mart with the display guns. Saw an 11-87 so rusted once that nobody in their right mind would buy. Brought it to the attention of the employees, who just stuck the gun back in the display case.

Cthulhu
February 3, 2003, 02:47 PM
Remington doesn't make custom orders, eh?
Ever see a Sam Walton Commemorative 11-87? Its a premier grade 11-87 with gold (plated) embellishments and his signiture engraved on the receiver. They made 1100s in a similar fashion. Wal-Mart only, ordered by Lipsey's.
Or WalMart-edition Ruger pieces such as the 10/22 Carbine with gray laminated stock and the BBZ model Mini-14. Run "Sam Walton" or "Wal-Mart" on the Gunsamerica search engine and you will see what I'm talking about.
Make your order large enough, and manufacturers will make whatever you want. Just ask owners of those Lew Horton exclusive Ruger or S&W's.

As for the Beretta 390s
Check out this article.

http://www.shotgunreport.com/SR_Pairs/20-Jan-02.html

Or how about Weatherby Vangard rifles?
http://www.weatherby.com/support/faq.shtml#2

The Plain Jane Push-feed Winchester 70's with blind magazines are also a Wal-Mart specials with notoriously bad records.

I still advance the theory that some manufacturers put together bottom basement models as Wal-Mart exclusives. But that is not wholly responsible for the sorry condition of firearms found at many Wal-mart chains. Employee neglect, as Guyon mentions, is certainly a factor. The guns are roughly treated by most employees during transit or inventory, never maintained and often displayed incorrectly which results in damage.

Also consider the possibilty that the in their effort to cut costs, Walmart might accept guns from their sources (both direct and Lipsey's) that are factory reconditioned, cosmetically flawed, or "new" old stock that has sat too long in some sweltering warehouse.

There were certainly good guns for good prices, even among my former store's motley collection of beaters. The guns with outwardly obvious defects usually don't make it past the log in process, so customers don't even get to see the real dogs that Wal-Mart receives, let alone purchase them. But those with more subtle defects, or missing internal parts might make it out on the shelf. Shoppers should inspect each one carefully before purchase, and weigh Wal-Mart's low price vs their unspeakably bad customer service/return policy.

GAMALOT
February 4, 2003, 10:38 PM
So, Am I to believe that when an order from Wal-Mart or K-mart hits the manufacturing line at Remington or Winchester a miraculous change takes place! Lets re-tool to start producing garbage guns at basement prices and still put our name on them.
Get REAL. Buying power plays the large part in price and if the MARTS have it then so be it. Let us not forget who stopped selling guns when the demand was greatest.
They may well have the power to purchase at the best prices but it is WE who have the power to purchase from the retailers who support or freedoms. I will gladly pay a higher price to support those who believe in my rights. "Mart" will never sell me a gun or any related item and they have lost a great deal of my business on most other items- check the DOW:D

HS/LD
February 5, 2003, 12:42 AM
Hey! :mad:

Support your local gun store!!

I don't mind paying 'a little' extra to support my local gun store owner.

HS/LD

GAMALOT
February 5, 2003, 01:46 AM
DIDN"T I just say that!:rolleyes:

romulus
February 5, 2003, 04:15 AM
I believe you did :D
It just may be a regional thing...
I've looked at a number of items in my local WI Wally World sporting good deepartment, and frankly the guns looked as nice as anywhere. Can't say the same for California, the worst gun store I've ever been to was the WalMart in Vallejo...disorganized, filthy, rude service, and, if I'd gotten that far, safe to guess rusty guns

Kahr carrier
February 6, 2003, 09:45 AM
Some Walmarts stock Weatherbys,and Mini 14s I think it depends on the sporting goods manager at each individual store. The guns at my local Walmart look fine.:)

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