Attention Texans in DFW area


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March 11, 2004, 09:29 AM
just a thought, would anyone be interested in a little get together day at the range? kind of a get to know everyone, shoot some paper, ogle everyone else's guns and maybe even trade one or two. I thought it might be kind of fun.

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March 11, 2004, 10:40 AM
I'd be interested.

I'm an hour/hour and a half south of there so need some lead time for scheduling.

Let's do it.


March 11, 2004, 12:48 PM
Heck, sure. It sounds like fun. I'm in the mid-cities so open as to location.

March 11, 2004, 01:57 PM
Cool...once I get two more people I will set a time and place. I am thinking maybe a really cool outdoor range would be cool. Anyone have any suggestions?

March 11, 2004, 07:00 PM
Depending on the date, I am in. I live in Little Elm, which is a bit north of Dallas. I work in Irving. Sounds like fun though! I have an SKS that I have not shot in a couple years...a place that would accomodate it would be great!

March 11, 2004, 08:57 PM
One more person and we're good to go....anyone?

Splat Shot
March 11, 2004, 09:44 PM
I'm a maybe depending upon dates, weekends only for me. May I suggest Gibson's in Mesquite, one of the few ranges in the DFW area that allow full metal jacket rounds. I'm open for anywhere else though. They are off Lawson Road at Hwy 80. They are about 3 miles down on Lawson Road across from a race track.

Sylvilagus Aquaticus
March 11, 2004, 09:54 PM
I'm in for some weekend near the first of the month. A place that allows FMJ rifle ammo is a very good idea. I'll bring the Rotowhackulous (my STG58) because .308 milsurp is cheap.

Aw, most any weekend isn't that bad, as long as I have some advance notice...


March 11, 2004, 10:17 PM
Very cool. Okay everyone. How about March 21st? That is a Sunday. If everyone can agree to that how about say at 2PM. There is a range in Fort Worth I know of but the best halfway point for everyone may be somewhere in Arlington or Irving. Anyone been to DFW Gun Club? This is their location:

DFW Gun Range is conveniently located near Downtown, Love Field, and the Stemmons Corridor Market Center. Our address is 1607 West Mockingbird Lane.

Note: I have never been there. I do not know their rules on firearms or even if the guys are cool or not. I do know that the Winchester Gallery in Fort Worth off of W. Lancaster is very clean, they have a flat rate and you can shoot as long as you want. They are cool with non armor penetrating rounds and non tracers. I think that includes steel core rounds. But as far as FMJ rifle rounds such as Wolf 7.62 or .308 they are perfectly okay with. They do NOT allow shotguns of any kind unless you are sworn law enforcement. They used to, but some joker shot the hell out of the place. If you guys don't mind driving there, it is the range I am MOST comfortable with. It is indoor climate controlled. Rates are under 15 bucks. They are located at

Winchester Gallery Gun Store
6054 E Lancaster 817-496-3133
Indoor Range 817-496-9900

They are in Fort Worth.

Let me know what you think and email me with a good way to contact you. BTW....bring a gun or two you may also want to trade cause you never know.:D

Sylvilagus Aquaticus
March 12, 2004, 01:20 AM
Hiya alduro...

DFW Gun is pretty much a pistol only proposition. It can and does get crowded on weekends. Occasionally they do allow rifles and carbines, but some clown caused them to put a hiatus on that awhile back. Last time I was there was a couple of months ago with the guys who work for me...a little 'field trip' when we had to leave the building during a security sweep...and they were allowing longarms firing.

They do have an MP5 (or something similar) for rent.

They are Class III friendly and run a good operation since the change of ownership awhile back. Plenty of rental pistols and revolvers.

Some of the guys on txfnfal's group keep talking about Gibson's in Mesquite, which is an outdoor range...200 meters, I think, and FMJ/ClassIII friendly as well. Haven't been there myself.


March 12, 2004, 05:02 AM
I was actually about to post a question about finding a good range in the dfw area. Anyone mind kicking in some other suggestions?

I'd like to some place that's outdoors that I can move around a little and shoot at multiple targets, like IDPA or GSSF type stuff. Any ideas?

March 12, 2004, 07:45 AM
I'd go for Gibson's. I've never been there and my M1A could use a workout the Austalian surplus I recently picked up from CTD.

I should be able to make the 21st.

The shooting range at Winchester is actually called The Shooting Gallery and yes it is nice.

March 12, 2004, 07:47 AM
I will call around for a suitable place. However lets go ahead and plan on the above date and time. 2PM somewhere. I should have an answer by Sunday. I'll post here.

March 12, 2004, 08:05 AM

Of course count me in. You and I spoke already, so I can't wait. I will most likelty meet up with you this weekend. You got my number, give me a call Saturday evening so we can chat.

March 12, 2004, 08:07 AM
No problem.

March 12, 2004, 03:25 PM
Please, count me in! I have been at the Shooting Gallery 4 or 5 times. In fact that's where I fired my very 1st guns for the very 1st time.

But finding an outdoor place sounds like a good idea. There is Allpine Range in SE Fort Worth but thay have all those rules - no double taps, no FMJ on the rifle range. They would also be kinda far for Dallas folks. However, they do have shotgun area along with rifle and pistol ranges.


March 12, 2004, 03:54 PM
Count me in! :D geegee

March 12, 2004, 05:55 PM
Alpine range is a deffinate no. I have been warned off of that place by a few close friends and co-workers. No FMJ??? what the heck is that? I'll try and get some information. The ONLY thing I don't like about the Shooting Gallery at the Winchester Gallery is the fact that the rifle lane is only 2 lanes wide. Bummer, but they WILL allow more than 1 person in there as long as you use common sense.

Nice to have you other 2 fellas with us.

March 12, 2004, 06:12 PM
FWIW, I would add this point. I'd prefer some time outside, but if the weather didn't cooperate, shooting at Bass Pro Shop in Grapevine ain't a bad deal, especially since you can stow your gear in the trunk after and then go next door to Big Buck's for some socializing. If you're not the socializing type, then you stay at Bass Pro Shop and clean the guns, and the rest of us could go to Big Buck's! :neener: geegee

March 12, 2004, 06:41 PM
Will Bass Pro allow rifles like an SKS and will they allow you to shoot your own ammo?

Double Naught Spy
March 12, 2004, 07:30 PM
Bass Pro has a limited amount of shooting lanes and can also be busy on the weekends.

As for no FMJ, places like the range on Highway 380 just NE of Denton is no FMJ rifle as is Quail Ridge on I-35 just north of the race track.

Collin County Gun Range is NE of Dallas and might be a good bet. I haven't shot there in 2-3 years, but they allow FMJ and the rifle range is out to 200 yards, I think. They have Class III, but I don't know if they allow visitors to bring Class III or not.

March 12, 2004, 08:00 PM
Bass Pro has a limited amount of shooting lanes and can also be busy on the weekends.
Agreed, but as a bad weather backup, it might do. I like Collin County Gun Range, but man, what a drive!

It's going to be hard to defeat the "anti-FMJ" ranges, so there may have to be some compromising as far as driving distance, FMJ's, etc. I'm easy though, so I'll go along with the final decision. geegee

March 12, 2004, 09:38 PM
I'm in.

I've been meaning to find an outdoor range in DFW but haven't connected yet - Garland is no fmj and I keep hearing horror stories about Alpine. I'll keep checking the thread and see what y'awl come up with.

I've got a couple of long guns that haven't even been sighted in yet. :(

FWIW, I'm a member at DFW gun and a more flexible bunch I've never met - this is the place that lets me air out my Ruger 1H in .416 Rigby if the range isn't busy - like 11:00 am on weekdays. A Rigby at 25 yards doesn't make much sense, but it sure settles the nerves on bad day.

March 12, 2004, 09:50 PM
Count me in! Looking forward to this. If all goes well (and I'm sure it will :) ) perhaps we can make this a regular/semi regular deal?


March 12, 2004, 09:57 PM

I am with you, I want this to be a once or twice a month thing. Maybe meet for lunch and then go shoot some paper.

March 12, 2004, 10:07 PM
Since i'm tentative about "whether' I'm not going to vote on "where" - just let me know. I'd welcome a chance to meet some of the old hands here. Hopefully i'll have a new item or two to share.

i usually go to bullet trap in plano for an indoor range, but would really like to find somewhere for position rifle outdoors, so the comments on rifle ranges are very helpful.

hope to see you soon,

March 13, 2004, 02:10 PM
I've been thinking maybe the Bass Pro for these reasons.

1.) Everybody knows where it is.

2.) They have a brewery/grill right there for some after shoot socializing.

3.) Its clean and everyone knows what to expect as far as rules and ammo etc. (I've never been there but everyone ELSE seems to know them):D

After all is said and done we may be able to rotate which range we go to on a particular month to kind of make it fair for everyone. What say the group?

March 13, 2004, 02:42 PM
So Bass Pro next Sunday is the current plan?

March 13, 2004, 03:44 PM
Okay, lets set it in stone for now. If anyone disagrees let us know ASAP.

Bass Pro Shop in Grapevine TX.

We will meet SUNDAY 21st at 2PM. We should probably meet somewhere in the parking lot before we start shooting. Everyone agree?

March 13, 2004, 04:25 PM
How are we going to spot each other? Alduro, you want to be the collector of cell numbers? I'm a little reluctant to just throw mine out on the forum here.

March 13, 2004, 07:39 PM
Okay anybody interested send me your phone number via email or your email address and I will contact you with the finalized plans.

March 13, 2004, 07:40 PM
is anyone thinking of contacting the range to see if they might let us reserve a couple of spots?

Double Naught Spy
March 13, 2004, 07:48 PM
Billmanweh, that would be the prudent thing to do before we all just decide to descend on the place and shoot.

March 13, 2004, 08:01 PM
especially if they are already crowded on the weekends

March 13, 2004, 08:12 PM
I just spoke to someone there at the range and he said they can reserve some space if we call ahead at least 3-4 days in advance and let them know how many are going to be in our group and when we want to shoot

March 13, 2004, 11:10 PM
You can also shoot a rifle there (including an AR-15), but it's only one at a time, and you need to reserve the time. And FWIW, the rifle range almost always has some "issues." :rolleyes: geegee

March 14, 2004, 12:35 AM
So....should we pick another range???

any help here would be greatly appreciated...I'm kinda flying by the seat of my pants.:D

The shooting gallery of of Lancaster in Ft. Worth will allow 2 rifles to fire at one time. I can see if we can reserve some space but I need a final headcount. I guess if you all will email me your information by Wednesday I will reserve the space at the range. I need everyones help though.

March 14, 2004, 12:46 AM
I'm not saying that, necessarily. Just that rifle work will be severely limited to one at a time. I think it could be a great location in the event of bad weather (where we couldn't go outside), and because of it's proximity to Big Buck's.

If all I could do was shoot my pistols that day, it would be okay by me since I view this as an "introductory get together," knowing we could all meet up again. No matter how you slice it, it will be hard to make it a perfect day all the way around, so why not throw up a few suggestions and let everyone vote on it? geegee

March 14, 2004, 01:02 AM
Okay guys lets put her to a vote.

By the way, when you vote, take a minute to see if you emailed or PM'd me your contact info, either email or phone number so I can mail or call anyone with any changes. Also I need a firm number to tell the range. Please have the information to me by Wed.

Lets vote!!!

Choices I know of:

1.) the Bass Pro Shop = Pros: good location, beer proximaty. Cons=1 rifle at a time.

2.) the Winchester Gallery's Shooting Gallery in Fort Worth. Pro's 2 rifles at a time, lots of pistol lanes and a seperate "overflow" pistol range next door.

3.) Alpine range, haven't heard much good about this place.

4.) DFW Gun Range....Seems like it would be okay, but they are limited on rifles from what I understand.

My vote: Bass Pro or Winchester Gallery....either is good.

March 14, 2004, 02:01 AM
My Vote goes to the Shooting Gallery

The Shooting Gallery has several pistol lanes - 25 yards, two rifle lanes, a little closer to midcities than Bass Pro. Last time I went it was $12 for as long as you want. You can send the targets to 9', 21', 33', 45', and 75'. I think maybe 15' too but I'm not sure.

Bass Pro is a great place but the rifle range is like a tunnel in the basement, you can look down and see who's down in it but there's not much room to stand and watch. It has less pistol lanes than the Shooting Gallery.


March 14, 2004, 02:09 AM
Count me in-any range, any time. One of the advantages of working nights:cool: Pistol, rifle, whatever. That place in Mesquite sounds like it would accomodate the largest variety of weapons. The Collin county range I heard was closed on Sunday:(

March 14, 2004, 02:43 AM
If what DonNikmare says is true....maybe I'll go with the shooting gallery too.

Delmar....have I recieved your information yet? email me. if you're in.

March 14, 2004, 03:19 AM

Can't e-mail you from here (work). Can't get past big brother firewall. Check your PM

March 14, 2004, 08:51 AM
It's Spring in Texas, we should be outside. Indoor ranges are also less accommodating to kibitzing and such.

Gibson's in Mesquite sounds quite promising and probably worth a shot as it allows us to shoot mil. surplus stuff, but I have never been there so defer to others on this.

Shooting gallery is a great indoor range IMHO, but DFW is probably similar and more centrally located.

Bass Pro - I have never used it, but it just doesn’t look like a real shooting range to me. It has the best location and the adjacent bar is a big plus for afterwards.

Alpine – Not bad for pistols, but there are a lot knuckleheads there on weekends and it has little range control.

I’ll not object to whatever you decide. I shoot more pistols that rifles anyway so indoors OK too if it must be.

March 14, 2004, 10:04 AM
I agree that outdoors is preferable if do-able. I know its a trek for some but has anyoe shot at backwoods T.R.A.P.S.?

Ultimately, I'm easy pleased though.


March 14, 2004, 11:15 AM
Quote: anyoe shot at backwoods T.R.A.P.S.?

Yep, on several occasions. But it's been at least a year since there. It's about 11 miles east of Denton on 380. Pretty nice 100 yard rifle range, but no FMJs allowed. Lotsa things there for shotgunners.

I've got a private hunter ed. class to conduct on the 21'st, possibly a baseball practice afterward, so would be late in attending, if at all. Altho, it would be nice to be able to associate some people with y'alls' handles.
:) Maybe one of these days ...

March 14, 2004, 02:32 PM
1.) the Bass Pro Shop = Pros: good location, beer proximaty. Cons=1 rifle at a time.

2.) the Winchester Gallery's Shooting Gallery in Fort Worth. Pro's 2 rifles at a time, lots of pistol lanes and a seperate "overflow" pistol range next door.

3.) Alpine range, haven't heard much good about this place.

4.) DFW Gun Range....Seems like it would be okay, but they are limited on rifles from what I understand.

1. BPS: There's been talk that they are inconsistant on the type of rifles they allow. A thread here a while back had a couple people claim that they had been turned away with evil black rifles. Personally, I've gotten two different answers from 2 different employees on the same trip to the store (I wasn't shooting at the time, just shopping.)

2.) Winchester: Never been there. Heard mixed reviews.

3.) Alpine: I will stop shooting before I go there ever again. If it needs explaination, let me know.

4.) DFW: Never been there, never heard of it.

5.) Gibson: This might be the most versitile public range. I've never been there.

6.) There's a range in Lancaster thats 300 yards, but they are a private range. I forget the name of it, Bartholemew_Roberts told me about it. They might open the range to a gathering like this.

7.) Bullseye in Duncanville: Pistol only. Kind of expensive.

8.) Targetmasters in Garland: they allow all guns, including CIII. The pistol and rifle ranges are seperate so it's a pain to wander back and forth. Also, no pistol in the rifle range and vv.

Did y'all decide what date for sure? Alduro, you may want to post a new thread with a poll for easy vote counting. I'm in for most weekend days, and most ranges.

March 14, 2004, 06:21 PM
I think we should go for the shooting gallery. Its far for me to drive, but would be nice to try it out. I really wanna shoot my SKS and they seem to be friendly from what I hear.

Splat Shot
March 14, 2004, 10:30 PM
I posted on Gibson's earlier and I'm a bit surprised a lot of you have not been there. I'm not saying everyone should go there but it does allow FMJ which is rare nowdays and the range is set up as one big long line with plenty of stations. Pistol is on the left side, two different distances, room for about 10-20 people. Rifle on the right side with targets at 50 & 100 yards and sometimes they have one set up at 200. Rifle has something like 20 stations, maybe more. They run a good, tight, safe operation. No apparent time limit on how long you want to shoot either. No waiting ever, not in the 5 years I have been going there. Range is covered so no problem in a slight rain plus you don't have to inhale lead like an indoor range. The place ain't pretty but it gets the job done.

Downside - newcomers have to pay a one time membership fee ($10 per year) then your range fee ($8?). The owners are an older couple and sometimes come across the wrong way as being a bit unfriendly and sour, no big deal though. No beer next door like Bass Pro. It's a hike from Ft. Worth, but I can make it there in about 35 minutes from Irving so its not too bad.

Having said that, I will go anywhere. Bass Pro is 5 minutes from my house but be aware they may not let you in with an EBR, depends upon the manager on duty that day. Pistols stations are limited to about 8-10 and rifle is one station, a tube that runs 100 yards under the store. Generally, they don't allow more than two people at a time allowed on the rifle range.

I think rotating ranges on a monthly basis is a good idea. I have also been to Quail Creek near Flower Mound/Lewisville - not a bad place either plus they have some type of trap/skeet setup for you shotgunners.

March 14, 2004, 10:40 PM
Hey everyone, I've been browsing for a while now and finally registered. I'm up for meeting some other guys here locally to shoot and BS with. The location doesn't really matter much to me, but I prefer mid cities or Fort Worth. The only places I have shot around here are Alpine and On Target (about 6 miles south of Benbrook on 377). On Target is kind of expensive and out of the way for just about everyone so I don't reccomend it. What are the horror stories people have heard about Alpine? I've been shooting there for years and haven't had any problems, I was there today as a matter of fact lol. They have a ton of pistol lanes, including a set that is reservation only and the 100 yard rifle range is rarely very crowded. The only range I ever have to wait for is the 50 yard rifle range for zeroing, and that is only on weekends. Range fee is $7.50 for all the ranges for as long as you want. As long as the range is AR-15 friendly I'll show up :D hopefully I will have my 1911 by then also.

March 14, 2004, 10:45 PM
Welcome to THR!

March 14, 2004, 11:00 PM
Okay guys....thats it. We will meet at 2PM on next Sunday. I am posting a sure and vote. Also, if I don't have your email or phone number then I cannot provide an accurate head count to the range. Please send me you info...


March 15, 2004, 12:50 PM
I haven't been to EVERY range in DFW area, but I have been to a few. Also, the links might help for your research.

Here's my $0.02, FWIW.

Bullet Trap, Plano
Typical anal range rules
No rapid fire
No firing from draw
All indoor
Nice folks, esp employees
25 yards for pistol & rifle
Kinda pricey
Used to be a member, before got into rifles

Collin County Gun Range, McKinney
"Outdoor" Range: Outdoor is in quotes because the lanes are covered and cut into a hillside
Rifle (100 yd)
Tac range
Nice folks
FMJ rifle ammo OK
No shotguns on rifle range
Limited hours, not open on Sunday due to City of McKinney's anti-RKBA biases.
Rifle range lanes are from the bench, ONLY. Also, the overhead cover plus the rear wall magnifies muzzle blast. Lord help you if a local defense contractor is out testing a weapon-mounted FLIR. For thousands of rounds. Constantly. Using shorty AR15 uppers with muzzle breaks. The constant muzzle blast can make one nauseous and turn a nice day at the range into a test of one's will.

Backwoods Traps, Little Elm
100yd rifle
No FMJ for rifle
Rifle from bench, ONLY
6 lbs of sh*t in a 5 lb sack (too much/many ranges/lanes in a small area)

Garland Public Shooting Range, Garland
100yd rifle
$10 yearly membership plus range fees
No FMJ for rifles
Rifles from bench ONLY

Targetmaster, Garland

Gibson's Outpost, Mesquite
1712 LAWSON RD Mesquite, Texas
(972) 222-6694
(No website that I could find)
$10-$15 (can't recall) membership plus range fees
FMJ for rifles OK
Rifles from bench, ONLY
Best PUBLIC range for shooting rifles I've been able to find, given that I have not hit the western side of the DFW metroplex.

March 15, 2004, 01:11 PM
Where is the poll?

March 15, 2004, 02:27 PM
Given the back and forth over where everyone will be likely to meet for a shooting-get-together this weekend I hesitate to mention ...... but there is a GS at Big Town Sat and Sunday.

I'm not a dealer and make not a penny on the show, just an FYI.

For all that go there occassionally I imagine it will be the usual deal. A few guns, not too many deals and lots of non-gun stuff clogging up the works.

If you guys do go shooting, have a good and safe time, and be careful on the road. I may have to go see if I can get a deal on a P3AT and eye for the 1st time a CZ RAMI.


March 15, 2004, 04:01 PM
Heck man, there's a gun show somewhere in the Metroplex every weekend. Big Town is monthly, right? You should be able to pick up a P-3AT for ~$200. I assume that "Walther Doc" will be at Big Town. He had Ramis for $399 last week at Market hall. Good Luck, Big Town is a decent show.

March 15, 2004, 10:47 PM

Alpine: I will stop shooting before I go there ever again. If it needs explaination, let me know.

I'll confess to some curiousity on the matter.

March 16, 2004, 12:08 AM
Been there twice. Once about 8 years ago. Had a MKII .22LR. Guy next to me had a 9mm. They've got this BS rule about no rapid fire, but it's their range, so I follow their rules. The guy next to me lets go 13 rounds of 9mm spraying it as fast as he can pull the trigger. The @#$%^# rangemaster waddles over and chastises me for rapid firing. I'm not the type to rat the moron next me out, so I just nod my head at all the right times and hope to speed his departure. After giving me the third degree, he wanders back down to the other side of the range. The guy next to me loads up and sprays it downrange again. I hadn't let a single round go at that point, and the rangemaster comes back down and tells me that if he has to warn me again, he'll kick me off the range. He proceeds to actually stand behind me, watching as I shoot two mags worth. The guy with the 9mm moves down two places and sprays a mag downrange again. I turn and give the guy a look, and the rangemaster taps me on the shoulder and tells me "that's it, you're out of here." I stop by the office on the way out and explained the situation to the owner and his response is that there must have been a good reason for kicking me off. I assured him that I wouldn't be back, and he seemed fine with the prospect.

About 6 months ago, I went there again thinking that things must be different, and I'd give it another try. I was shooting an AR. The rangemaster told me that I couldn't shoot FMJ, so I went in the proshop to buy some of their overpriced ammo. I shot for a little bit off the bench and then went prone. The rangemaster informed me that I had to shoot off the bench. As he was walking off, he made the comment that I should get a "proper rifle." Then the ammo they sold me KB'd in my AR. :fire: Turns out that they were selling reloads in a factory box. They swore up and down that they didn't do that, and accused me of trying to blame my "cheap plastic gun" on them so they would pay for it. Pretty silly since they had some ARs that they were selling.

I've pretty much had it with them. Plenty of people have normal experiences there (I assume), and I can't explain why I was so poorly treated. The first time I wrote off to me being 21. I was a jeans and t-shirt kind of guy, not a punk or BDU wearing wannabe. The second time I was there I was wearing 5.11s and a t-shirt. Again, not really identifying myself as a troublemaker. I don't really know why they are such :cuss: :cuss: :cuss: ers. I've heard of poor experiences from others as well, so it's not just me. You'd think they'd get a clue somewhere along the way.

Feel free to experience them for yourself, but I am serious about quitting shooting before I go there again. Luckily I'm not limited to those two choices. :D

March 16, 2004, 04:45 PM
TechBrute -


Thanks for the input - don't know how I'd react to being ejected due to somebody else's rapid fire. :confused: :mad:

March 16, 2004, 06:35 PM
I've heard horror stories of the Alpine range...mainly that it is the "Bubba" yard of shooting galleries with some "non" friendly types. Maybe they allow "organized" militia only. You gotta be HARD CORE SON!!!:D

March 16, 2004, 06:54 PM
Hey Vatos'.....I emailed everyone except RRTX because I don't have his email address. I do however have his phone number, so its all good. If you did NOT recieve an email, then I do NOT have your correct info. Submit it now or forever hold your piece....:D errr....ummm.....I meant PEACE:neener:

March 16, 2004, 06:54 PM
LOL!! That MUST be the problem! :D

March 16, 2004, 07:04 PM
Wow I've never seen it that bad there TechBrute. I wouldn't have let myself be kicked out for someone elses stupidity like that though. The first time I would have done like you and just blown it off, but if the guy was standing there when it happened again and tried to blame me he would have gotten an earful. The only problem I notice out there nowadays is there always seems to be some punk kid with a $150 ghetto blaster out there than jams every round and they can't seem to keep it pointed downrange. The people working the range pay little to no attention to what goes on down on the pistol lanes, but watch the rifle lanes like hawks when 99% of the problems I see occuring are on the pistol lanes anyway :cuss: Oh well, you win some you lose some. Looks like Winchester Gallery is winning the poll for this weekends meet, I drive by it every day on my way home from work and have been meaning to stop in there anyway

March 16, 2004, 07:11 PM
Well, the guy did get an earfull, and so did the owner, but all it served to do is raise my blood pressure. I hope Winchester is worth a @#$%, because 2 of the 3 ranges I've been to since I moved back have been poor experiences (although Alpine is still the most memorable.):rolleyes:

March 16, 2004, 07:41 PM
Okay guys....looks like the "Shooting Gallery" wins for this month's little get together. We have exactly 10 people counting myself. I guess that means they will have to open their auxillery pistol range next door. I have to warn you guys, they only have 2 rifle lanes and they MIGHT be occupied so you may have to burn lead out of a fist cannon until it becomes vacant.

If anyone else is interested be sure and get a hold of me. As of now, I will give them a little visit tomorrow to test the feasability of all of us getting the "extra" range next door to ourselves. WITHOUT leaving a deposit of course.:D

March 16, 2004, 07:59 PM
For a future event, maybe we can organize a park-and-ride to Tacpro. I have a few new rifles that I haven't even fired yet.

March 16, 2004, 08:04 PM month is rifle month.:D

March 16, 2004, 08:07 PM
Techbrute...I like your thinking.

I will be bringing a little roster of sorts to gather all the info that Alduro probably already has. I have a Ford Explorer, so I will have room if we decide to do a park and ride.

See you all on Sunday!

March 16, 2004, 08:22 PM
Techbrute...I like your thinking.

I will be bringing a little roster of sorts to gather all the info that Alduro probably already has. I have a Ford Explorer, so I will have room if we decide to do a park and ride.

See you all on Sunday!

March 16, 2004, 08:22 PM
Steve, I call shotgun!!!haha.

What is TacPro anyway?

March 16, 2004, 08:30 PM
Click here for Tacpro. (

1000 yard range rumored to be the best range within driving distance of DFW.

Tiger Valley is pretty nice, too, but I'd like to try Tacpro personally.

March 16, 2004, 08:36 PM
I went out to TacPro about two years ago and spend the day shooting with Bruce. He and his wife are really nice and they have a great range set-up.

March 16, 2004, 09:12 PM
Tacpro would be Much closer for me.....Maybe the next one.

Edited to add: Could also work in Pigeon Road to those interested.


March 16, 2004, 09:45 PM
Hey....who's bringing the camera? We gotta post pics? just look at all the bandwidth we could take up...:D

March 16, 2004, 09:52 PM
I'll try to remember to bring one.

March 16, 2004, 10:04 PM
I'll have my camera with me, but someone else remember to bring one just in case :D

March 16, 2004, 10:07 PM
Bought one today.:D

Always thinking....;)

March 17, 2004, 01:41 AM
I'll bring my digital camera as a back-up back-up

March 17, 2004, 08:29 AM

Sounds good. I didn't hear from you though so I resent you an email with my info.

Bob Jenkins
March 17, 2004, 01:15 PM

I just noticed this thread.
I am also interested in going to the Sunday Shoot on March 21.
Please Email me the info.

March 17, 2004, 08:21 PM
Okay guys, I talked the range and they will be expecting us. I told them to expect around 11 of us. They were pretty cool about the rifle stuff....all they request is not "steel" in the bullet. No steel core stuff. They said the Wolff ammo with the yellow triangle on the box is okay...its copper fmj or's also cheap.

So Sunday at 2PM at the Shooting Gallery off of Lancaster. See you there.

Bob, email me at with your phone number so I can add you to the list.

March 17, 2004, 10:01 PM
If I bring a note from my mommy can I shoot shotgun?

It really bugs me when a range restricts you due to other people's actions. That's the same mentality that gun-grabbers use.

March 17, 2004, 11:37 PM
What's everyone planning on bringing?

I'll have the only firearms I own: a .38 S&W 2'' snubbie and
a cz 97b .45ACP biggie :D

I'm looking forward to this!


March 17, 2004, 11:48 PM
here's what I've got;

Colt 80 Series Gov't
Colt Commander
Kimber Tactical Pro (all 3 are .45)
Glock 17
Glock 34
Kahr PM9 (these 3 are 9mm)

I'm not planning on bringing everything, so if there's anything here that someone wants to try/shoot, let me know before Sunday and I'll toss it in the bag.

March 18, 2004, 12:11 AM
I'm only bringing 2 handguns. I may bring an AR or 2.

What's the max yardage for the rifle?

March 18, 2004, 12:14 AM
Hey Bill....are those Kimber Tactical Pro's the polymer frame things? I would love to try one.

and can I say this politely....BE NICE...I go to this range every week or two....don't piss these guys off. As far as :
"If I bring a note from my mommy can I shoot shotgun?" No....they won't allow it. I know, it sucks...if you are a Cop they will allow it provided you pay damages for anything you break, otherwise, no dice.:D

"It really bugs me when a range restricts you due to other people's actions. That's the same mentality that gun-grabbers use."

Though you may feel it, don't tell them. ;)

I will bring a Sig Pro 2340 for those of you who have not been enlightend to the polymer wonders that Sig creates.

A 229 in .40 with a nice ported EFK Firedragon conversion barrel in 9mm.

A 229 with tricon's....for those into that kind of thing.

A Beretta 92FS...her maiden voyage....I've never even fired it.

A Ruger PC4 .40 cal. Carbine. Its about the same size as a Ruger 10/22....maybe a tad larger. Pistol caliber carbines rule.

I have a Remington 870...but since TechBrute can't shoot his, I wont shoot mine.:D

TechBrute..."Yardage"???? try feet. haha. Seriously only about 30 yards maybe 40. Not far...bring a small bore target.

March 18, 2004, 12:24 AM
The Kimber Tactical models are aluminum frame models.

Gee, alduro, are you worried that if I piss them off they'll hold you accountable for my actions? :D J/K.

I'm just bitter because I've had a "new" Benelli for almost a year now and I've only got about 50 rounds through it. It really needs breaking in bad. At least I'll have a chance to run some rounds through an AR I just threw together.

I'll bring the Benelli if you want to shoot it. Someone ought to get some use out of it. :D

March 18, 2004, 12:31 AM

I'd like to try your Colt Commander n Kimber Tactical Pro. I haven't shot another .45 but mine n want to see how they compare.

The gun store next to this range has a pretty cool aquarium with a couple of rattle snakes. I always like to go in there to feast my eyes on the guns and to check out the snakes.

How long do you guys foresee on staying and how late is the range open?

I only can go shooting every couple of months or so and like to stay at least two hours per trip.

Dang, I'm considering getting a SKS just so I could be part of the rifle shoot.
I have been wanting to go to Tacpro for a while. The guys at Cheaper Than Dirt keep recomending it.


March 18, 2004, 12:35 AM

You know...Alpine has a shotgun area behind the store. I'm sure they'll let you shoot that Benelli - LOL

I'm sorry - just couldn't resist :neener:


March 18, 2004, 12:37 AM
Probably a milsurp rifle and a couple handguns.

Some Possible Milsurps:
FR8 mauser 7.62 NATO
K31 7.5 Swiss
Yugo M48 with scout scope 8x57
Swde 96/38 6.5x55

Some Possible Hand Cannons:
S&W 686 .357 (trigger job, hogue ruber stocks)
SW1911 .45 (suh-weet!)
Springer 1911 Ultra-Compact 9mm
AMT .45 Backup (polished feed ramp)
Kel-tec P40 .40 (polished feed ramp, tritium night sights)
Kel-tec P32 .32
Beretta M21 .22
Ruger .22 auto MK1

Nothin' too fancy.

Its not an arsenal, but if you spot something you'd have a hankerin' to shoot, sound off, otherwise I'll bring whatever suits my fancy 'round noon-time Sunday. I like 'em all for thier particular strengths.

BTW, in the spirit of he whole deal, I'm looking to trade off my AMT .45 Backup, 3 or 4 mags, and an Aker pocket holster made for it. If you peruse my list of CCW-freindly weapons, the AMT & Kel-Tec are similar in size. What I'm lacking is something between them & my P32 size-wise. I was thinking an alloy-frame .38 snubbie would be the ticket.

Anyway, trade or no trade, I expect to enjoy sending rounds down range.

See y'all there.

March 18, 2004, 12:48 AM

Never let it be said that I tried to talk someone outta buying a gun (other than myself...daily), but you might want to try somebody's rifle this time out, given the fact there are only two lanes for rifle, anyway. Also, if its indoors or there are too many hard surfaces nearby, the rifle muzzle blast will be unpweasant on my widdle eawers.

Now, feel free to disregard the above comment if you were just looking for an excuse to pick up a rifle.

(Oh I forgot to mention my Remington Nylon 66 .22)

March 18, 2004, 01:12 AM
I'm not bringing much, but if anyone has an FAL, Cetme, or G3 that I could run 5 or 6 rounds through, I'd be more that willing to trade some range time on it for some range time on a S&W 625, a Kimber Pro Carry, or an AR.

March 18, 2004, 06:43 AM
I'll have my AR and probably an XD-40. It doesn't look like I'm going to be able to pick up my new 1911 before this weekend :( Do any of you guys with an AR happen to have a front sight adjusting tool? Mine is shooting way high and I can't get the pin depressed to adjust the front sight. How are we going to meet up once we get there?

March 18, 2004, 07:53 AM

Sorry for the late reply.

Definately WANT to make it. Have a shed project @ my brothers we have to get finished this weekend.

Would it be too late to add 1 or 2 more if we (brother and/or I) can get enough accomplished on Saturday?
-or- everyone can come over Sat. for an old fashioned barn raising. :D :rolleyes:

I'll email ya w/ personal.

PS Look forward to meeting others; if not this weekend, maybe later.
Ran into donNikmare @ on-target once. Nice to meet another THR'r.

FYI before I forget. Military Gun Supply is just down the street from the shooting gallery. (about 1/4 mile west on the other side of the street).
Sadly, not open on Sunday IIRC.

March 18, 2004, 08:50 AM
Hey all, I will be bringing:

SigPro 2340
S&W 5906
Maybe my Russian M44 Carbine, its a cannon!

I have not been able to shoot my SKS in 3 years, so I am way excited about that!!!

See ya Sunday!

March 18, 2004, 08:57 AM
By the way guys, I will most likely bring my Dig camera also. I have a place online that I will host the pics for. If we really want to do this, I can get us a web page that is specific to our group. It could be a place where we can all post our pics of the gatherings and a real easy place to post a sort of calendar to outline our shoots. I spoke with alduro about some of this, and I would love to see this become a regular thing. I think there are a good bunch of folks here that love to shoot, so why not focus on it...

Any thoughts?

March 18, 2004, 09:16 AM
Do any of you guys with an AR happen to have a front sight adjusting tool?
Four or five prong?

I'll be bringing my AR, but I'm still in the process of sighting in a new Eotech sight. If any of you have any skills here that would be helpful, I'd be greatly appreciative. ;) Thanks, geegee

March 18, 2004, 09:26 AM
Ok, so there will be like 4 or 5 ARs there that apparently will need sighting in, as I have 2 that need it. :D

March 18, 2004, 10:32 AM
I'll be there. I'll bring my M1-A for any rifling that need so to be done and a few pistols......I'm thinking CZ-75 & S&W 3913 since I have a lot of 9mm on hand right now. Maybe something else if I get around to some loading before then.

Alduro, I haven't received an email reply from you.

March 18, 2004, 11:17 AM
Could someone please PM me and let me know when this is going to happen. I'd love to come.

Count me in...if I can find out where it is being held. :)

March 18, 2004, 12:08 PM
alduro...since you organized this one, I will let you do the Pming...I don't know if we were restricted to a certain amount of people. I say they more the merrier!!!

Hope to see everyone there!

March 18, 2004, 12:58 PM
tiberius...if you haven't recieved an email by now, then I probably didn't get your info.

Anthony...2PM at the Shooting Gallery in Fort Worth. Anthony...if you want to know of future events email me your personal info.
i.e. phone number and email contact.

We are not limited to the amount of people, they are reserving a 10 lane handgun range for us and the rifle is first come first served. So we probably will not be together as a group the WHOLE time but thats cool, there are a few resteraunts not far from there just for that.:D

I will wait in the parking lot until about 2 or 2:10...for everyone to arrive....then I'm goin' shootin'.:p

March 18, 2004, 03:00 PM
Alduro...I will be in a Silver Ford Explorer...what will you be in?

March 18, 2004, 03:07 PM
maybe we should work up name tags, or a secret handshake?

March 18, 2004, 03:11 PM
Too bad the ML hats won't be ready in time.

March 18, 2004, 04:31 PM
Too bad the ML hats won't be ready in time. I'll be wearing mine. :)

March 18, 2004, 04:49 PM

I will be driving a very dirty Nissan Frontier...White. Hats? That might be kind of interesting.:scrutiny:

Secret handshake? Nametags? What would our name tags read as? Our handle?:neener:

March 18, 2004, 05:03 PM
Hey....being that we are all from Texas and such...has anyone attended a good training school that is nearby and doesn't cost an arm and leg? I understand Thunder Ranch is moving to Montana or Wyoming or they are out. Any other places?

I know...a bit off topic but...maybe a group discount?:D

March 18, 2004, 05:12 PM
TR is moving to Oregon. Tacpro and Tiger Valley have training facilities, although I've used neither. They have the distinct advantage of being less than a 1.5 hour drive. Tiger Valley seems to be big with the ARFCOM crowd.

March 18, 2004, 07:07 PM
Ok, I've got the place and about a date when this is to occur.

Could someone give me that?

March 18, 2004, 07:09 PM
Date is this sunday, the 21st at 2PM. geegee, it's 5 prong, A2 type

March 18, 2004, 07:13 PM
Sunday, March 21

March 18, 2004, 11:23 PM
CZSteve I hope you make it. It was sure fun to run into you at On Target.
Hope the weather cooperates with your project on Saturday.


March 19, 2004, 07:28 AM
Hey Nik,

Looks like I'll be able to sneak out for a couple hours and be there.

Will be bringing:

Looking forward to Sunday. :D

P.S. Anyone have a p3at they might be able to bring and don't mind if I can take a 'test drive'?

March 19, 2004, 11:12 AM
Tiger Valley seems to be big with the ARFCOM crowd
I'm not one of their crowd, but I did go to TIGER Valley for Gunstock. It was great, and certainly worth discussing when we meet. See y'all on Sunday! :D geegee

March 19, 2004, 03:12 PM
is anyone bringing a .40? I've got a box of .40 s&w blazer and don't have a .40 pistol. Thought I'd bring it with me if anyone can use it...

March 19, 2004, 05:11 PM
I'm at the Mother in Law's house, with wife & kids. Went to the closest Wal Mart and bought some name tags. I'll make them out for anyone reading this who plans on attending. Just PM me if you want one with THR name and your real one, but I'll have to receive your info by Saturday night. geegee

March 19, 2004, 05:25 PM
Bill....I have 4 .40's. Bring em.:cool:

March 19, 2004, 05:47 PM
ok, who wants to put together a secret handshake now?

March 19, 2004, 06:49 PM
I got finger in the nostril while giving a high five?:D

March 19, 2004, 08:17 PM
Thats strange:scrutiny:

Our 3 yr old apparently has already found out the secret-handshake.:uhoh:

March 19, 2004, 08:20 PM
Hey....thats where I got the shake in the FIRST PLACE!:D

March 20, 2004, 01:29 PM
Hello All,

I saw this get together last week but thought I wouldn't have time to go.
So, I won't horn in at this late date.

But my plans changed, I am taking my mother-in-law shooting at that range this Sunday with the "new" Makarov I got her for home defense. She was borrowing my Ruger SP-101. I can't wait to get that one and shoot it again! We will be there at 12:00 til 1:00ish, maybe I'll see some of y'all.

I live near the Fort Worth Zoo so I'm close. Hope to try to be involved with any other plans you guys may make. Sorry I'm going to miss this one.


Maybe See Ya,
Joel Martin/gulogulo1970

March 20, 2004, 01:52 PM

It's a public range. If they don't have enough lanes I'm sure not everyone here will mind. You can come if you like.:)

March 20, 2004, 02:00 PM
or a street address so I can look it up -


March 20, 2004, 02:09 PM
Winchester Gallery Gun Store
6054 E Lancaster 817-496-3133
Indoor Range 817-496-9900

March 20, 2004, 02:35 PM
Once you exit 820, it's right there on the southwest corner of 820 and E Lancaster, you can't miss it. There's a gun store out front and then just behind the store is the range.

map (

March 20, 2004, 05:31 PM
Hey guys what is the range fee? Thought that might be some good info for everyone to know lol.

March 20, 2004, 06:06 PM
It's like $13 on weekends. They used to have a good website, but it seems to be down now.

March 20, 2004, 07:27 PM
Ok is what I will have with me:

S&W 5906 9mm
SigPro 2340
Russian SKS
Russian M44 Carbine

I may bring my Winchester Defender for anyone to look at in case they are interested in a trade or something of the sorts.

See ya all there!

March 20, 2004, 10:04 PM

If permittable, would love to try a couple rounds through your SKS.

That's another one singing their siren song out to me.
Too many guns, not enough money.

March 20, 2004, 11:07 PM
Steve...or er...aguyindallas...

I would like to try the Russian M44 carbine AND the SKS. I've heard the M44 kicks like a mule. I love mules.:D

I know, I know....I'm a sadist.:evil:

March 21, 2004, 02:28 AM
I may bring my Winchester Defender for anyone to look at in case they are interested in a trade or something of the sorts.

what kind of stock do you have on your defender?

March 21, 2004, 01:10 PM
See everyone in a little while :D I'll be driving a newer blue extended cab Ford Ranger with an American flag and a couple other stickers on the back window

March 21, 2004, 07:36 PM
Hey that was great! Nice to meet so many of you, and not one a&&hole in the bunch!!

Looking forward to next month...

March 21, 2004, 07:38 PM
I'm working on pics as we speak, I'll have em posted in a few minutes...

March 21, 2004, 07:40 PM
ok, a group shot

March 21, 2004, 07:47 PM
a few shots of the gear...

March 21, 2004, 07:51 PM
and a few individual pics

March 21, 2004, 07:53 PM
and afterwards in the clubhouse...

March 21, 2004, 07:56 PM
I gotta run, but I had a blast and can't wait to do it again. See you guys around...

March 21, 2004, 08:09 PM
Dang-that was a lot of fun! Might want to do this on a semi-regular basis. Thanks to all who showed up and to those who missed it, you would have had to be doing something special to have as much fun as we did.

Now, Delmar is stuck at work-until 4AM. Anyone want to clean a couple of dirty 1911's?;)

March 21, 2004, 09:18 PM
Ditto on the fun factor.

Nice to have met everyone and looking forward to another round.

Need to go now and ice my hand and shoulder as a result of that .44mag Derringer - Ouch :D

March 21, 2004, 09:30 PM
That was awesome guys!!! I had a blast today! time we meet, I will bring the SKS again and you can have your way with it. Hope to see this happen regularly!

March 21, 2004, 09:57 PM
That was really great guys. We will do this again next month. Stay tuned for details. Gibson's Rifle range is next....we will have a day of the long guns. Now I just need to buy a rifle.:rolleyes:

Thanks for posting those pics Bill.

Everyone was very cool in person....and patentnonsense bought dinner...WHAT A SWELL GUY!!!:D

March 21, 2004, 10:06 PM
That was really great guys. We will do this again next month. Stay tuned for details. Gibson's Rifle range is next....we will have a day of the long guns. Now I just need to buy a rifle.

Thanks for posting those pics Bill.

Everyone was very cool in person....and patentnonsense bought dinner...WHAT A SWELL GUY!!!

March 21, 2004, 10:12 PM
Moderator...I request that you remove the above quote from Techbrutes Post count. He ripped off my post and put up a meager "yep".'re not a're a reciever. Glory Glutton!!:D

March 21, 2004, 10:18 PM're not a're a reciever. Glory Glutton!! Maybe. :D

March 21, 2004, 10:19 PM
I had a great time and my hand is still hurting from that patentnonsense's .44 mag derringer :D I never figured we would end up loitering at bennigans until 8:30 lol, I'm suprised they didn't try and kick us out. Can't wait til the next get together

March 21, 2004, 10:24 PM
Yeah, 3 hours shooting and 4 hours at the bar... where's our priorities?

Overheard in the Bennigan's parking lot... "Check it out... That guy's got a machine gun in his trunk..."

...and not one a&&hole in the bunch!! Hey!! You're going to ruin my rep!


March 21, 2004, 10:30 PM
I have no idea why someone would think we had a machine gun in the parking was only an assault rifle :evil:

March 21, 2004, 10:46 PM
When are we doing it again?

March 21, 2004, 11:37 PM
Great time guys. Looking forward to the next one (though not he weekend of 4/16, 4/17 as folks will be in town). Sounds like I left Bennigan's too early though :)

Hhhmmm, Patentnonsense has me jonesing for my own .44 Derringer now.

March 21, 2004, 11:40 PM
Excellent day! Plenty of firearms were shared, and new friendships begun. On the downside, my ears are still ringing, and the bridge of my nose has a cut from the recoil from that .416 Rigby. Oooh, momma, what a beast that thing was. :what:

Hope to be seeing you boys again at the next get together, and hopefully see some new faces as well. I'll be doing a little "due diligence" to see about some rifle training. My results will be posted here.

Great meeting you guys, and I'll look forward to the next one. geegee

March 22, 2004, 12:21 AM
alduro, when you post your pics, could you include an occasional caption as to who's who?

just wanna make sure I can remember everyone's names...

March 22, 2004, 12:31 AM
I will start a new thread with some info. on the next shoot. Probably the 3rd. weekend of next week....I'll take a look at the calander. We had a hell of a time. I didn't know there was a 416 Rigby....darn...maybe next time. I had to pass on the 44 mag deringer after watching RRTX's cheeks shake from recoil. (the cheeks on his face perverts) :D

I really wanted to try that Russian I think as suggested we will be looking into a rifle friendly range.

One last note for everyone there. Techbrute, RRTX and I were discussing various trainings we have attended and ran the idea of teaching each other some techniques from this training. For instance, he is apparantly the AR and carbine caveat of technique....where as I don't know squat. I on the other hand may be able to show you guys some cool training I went through. You know, have one of us set up a course of fire with an objective, informally teach each of us in an open forum type of situation. We can increase our knowledge base, try some different techniques and do a little organized shooting rather than grab assed socializing....................
...(though I thought that was a hoot) Kind of take it up a step. I thought it was a good idea, what are your thoughts?:D

I think that collectively we have a lot we can teach one another. OF COURSE...I still plan on setting up some pistol classes somewhere.;)

Bill.......I will do my best as I remember them. I have to get the pics developed, scan and convert them to jpg.....

March 22, 2004, 12:43 AM
I'll have to say that I am really glad I found a group to shoot with. I haven't been shooting with anyone since I moved from SoCal. I enjoyed the "after-party", as well. It's cool that we're such as diverse group, too. And by diverse, I mean we all have different guns. :D

Looking forward to doing rifles next month. What'll y'all be bringing?

March 22, 2004, 01:03 AM
Some type of bastardized soviet or Russian type of EBR. Hopefully that Saiga .308 I can't shut up about.:D

March 22, 2004, 02:48 AM
It sure was fun to meet all of you!

I don't think I had seen as many guns being actively deployed all at the same time. :D

I can't figure out if I'm sore from all the shooting or from mowing the yard for the 1st time this season yesturday.

patentnonsense thanks for sharing all of your toys and for treating all of us to dinner. Dang I should have ordered more than limonade :banghead:

Nik, feverishly thinking about getting a rifle.

March 22, 2004, 09:05 AM
patentnonsense thanks for sharing all of your toys and for treating all of us to dinner. Dang I should have ordered more than limonade

Hey, I don't get all the credit - lots of guys contributed too. (I was happy to pick up what I could, I just don't want to claim all the credit - and I think you guys left me more in stray brass than I paid out!)

And BTW I see that one of us was shooting .357 SIG - I'd be curious to try that out next time.

And I didn't realize there was a .416 in the Rifle bay - I'll have to bring my .458 next time, for all you masochists!

And you may be entertained to hear that Bond Arms discontinued the .44Mag barrel for their derringer, because they decided it kicked too hard - I think I'll tell them just to put a legend on the barrel "Max.bull.wt.180g." I want to try some of the lightweight .44M loads like MagSafe's 117g load

On the Magsafe web site
I see they claim 899 foot-lb from 4" barrel with the 117g load, so it should do OK from my 3" derringer.

BTW I see that Magsafe also claims 960fpe from their 10mm load!! wow! 96g at 1800fps!

And someone needs to bring a red-dot sight we can try out.

Looking forward to next time,

March 22, 2004, 12:54 PM
Well, the ole 416 was a whipping. I will take a pic of my bruise tonight and post it, lol. I'll try anything though. I shot a .458 once in the past, that was rough too.

The idea of sharing different training was great I thought. I took a CHL class in California that I learned one thing I will show everyone. It has to do with drawing from concealed etc...maybe you know it, maybe not, but its good practice. I would love to learn some tactical training from everyone as I still consider myself very novice in that regard.

It was great shooting everything we had. Rifle day will be great I am sure also. I will bring the SKS and my M44 for everyone to have fun with. Thats all I own for rifles other than a .22.

I have an idea if you guys are all interested....perhaps getting our own website together that we can post information on about past and future shoots, pics, etc... Let me know if you are interested. It would require that we all chip in a few dollars to get the domain name and have it hosted, but I think it would be cool. We can still advertise our shoots on the forum to attract new people to the group of course....just a thought.

Thanks again to everyone, I had a blast!

March 22, 2004, 01:05 PM
Website? That might be a better idea than hogging up all the THR bandwith by posting pics of ourselves having a good time. I'd pitch in.

March 22, 2004, 01:23 PM
And someone needs to bring a red-dot sight we can try out. Geegee and I were all primed and ready for an EOTech v. Aimpoint shootout. Maybe next time.

March 22, 2004, 01:32 PM
alduro, ping me and I'll make the next one.

March 22, 2004, 02:07 PM
Ok is the deal.

I can get the domain name for $35.00/year and the hosting for $100.00/year.

If we decide to do this, we will take input and decide on the name for the page as a group and then vote. This will give us 100mb of storage and unlimited usage. We can have our own email address if we want to. That may be more than we really want, but it comes with the package.

Obviously, I need help paying for it, so I figure 10 bucks from each of us will take care of it. What we can do is you all can pay me through my pay-pal account and I will get it all handled. I want everyones input on what we want on the page, name, etc...This is for all of us to benefit and like alduro said, not hog down any bandwidth here.

Here are some ideas for content:

Group's mission (who we are, what we do)
Individual bio for the group's users(maybe)
Past Events w/link to pics
Future Event Schedule
Guestbook ? ?
anything guys?

March 22, 2004, 02:11 PM
I would be interested in this if the group shows sustained interest over the next few months. I think it's a great idea, but I don't want it to be stillborn. I think this forum is great in the mean time, and offers several things that our own website would not (ie discussion areas.) sounds good. Maybe someone more creative than me could jump in for names.

March 22, 2004, 03:01 PM
If you guys are serious I'm good for some bucks to help get things rolling.

Ultimately given all of us are shooters it would be great if we could come up with enough interest to lease some land and have our own private range. It would be worth something to me to have a range I could go to and take my kids, know it's safe, no time problems and know the other shooters. If we could kick a DCM match for M1 quals once in a while so much the better.
I've been part of private (NRA affiliated) clubs in the past and always had a good experience.
Just my dream.

March 22, 2004, 03:52 PM
I, too, enjoyed the shooting of firearms and the subsequent shooting of bull.

I'd like to thank alduro for riding the task to completion and his research, patentnonsense (& some others) for chow, and all of y'all for a fine time spent exercising my RKBA.

If I can make the next rifle-oriented shindig, I'll be happy to bring my long guns and let them be shot by any interested parties.
M48 Yugo Mauser, 8x57 (Currently trying to get scout scope operable)
M96/38 Swede Mauser, 6.5x55
K31 Schmidt-Rubin, 7.5 Swiss
FR8 Spanish Mauser, 7.62 NATO
Rem 700, 30-06 (Curently apart due to some home gunsmithing)
Rem 7400, 30-06

Cheap milsurp ammo makes it easier to shoot more often.

I don't have any commie rifles...yet.

March 22, 2004, 04:03 PM

I am with you, the idea of some land somewhere would be great. Safe, comfortable and not being restricted on what type of ammo we shoot would be so cool. Also, we could have those impromtu training sessions that was spoken about above. I really want to be able to do some defensive training where we can draw from concealment, aquire and shoot. Thats often not allowed at public ranges though.

March 22, 2004, 04:07 PM
Steve aka (aguyindallas) you gotta do somthing about that handle bro':D

I agree with Techbrute (I know, that's a stretch) let's get together again next month for the long gun meet and see how that goes. We can discuss the website and potential for formalizing it then and we can also gauge the success of this type of thing. I know that I for one will try to make it every single month. If everyone else is serious, I will type up everyone's contact info to be passed out and we can maybe then do a website, discuss training more in depth etc. Some of us may even want to meet more than once a month.....I go shooting at least every 2 weeks and don't mind company at all. But I think a semi-formal thing once a month would be very cool.

So, Steve, if you can get the particulars together regarding the website, hosting (not CI HOST) and all the prices. I am getting the next meet set up. And I think Geegee is getting some information on formalized training classes set up. We can all meet and discuss it then.

the private range thing may be discussed also....but man that sounds EXPENSIVE!!!

It was a pant load of fun and only half as messy.:p:what:

March 22, 2004, 04:20 PM
Yeah, lets see hwo next month turns out and then work on a "formal organization". I'd hate to miss one of our EARLY/FORMATIVE sessions, so I'd like to do APRIL's get togethor on the second or fourth weekend if at all possible since I have faimly in town over 4/16 & 14/17.

I can bring any of the following for rifle work:

M1A - 7.62 NATO of course
M1 Garand - 30.06 - Absolutely perfect late production Springfiled model from CMP.
Russian SKS - 7.62X39 - stock and VERY good condition.
Winchester 94 -.44 magnum - just put a WIlliams peep sight on it and need to sigh it in.
Ruger 1022- like everyone else I imagine :)

March 22, 2004, 04:25 PM
Forgot to add that I'm sorry I missed out on the .416 Rigby....but I'm glad to find out that it was chambered in a Ruger #1 and not a Derringer. :)

March 22, 2004, 04:36 PM
Well, my handle is what I use on another forum, so its just easy for me to remember...I will consider something else in the future...

I do agree that putting the website together "now" maybe early, I just wanted to gauge opinions to see if it was something that we want to do at all in the future and to let everyone know that I have the ability to make it happen.

I think a once a month thing is fine. My girlfriend is pregnant, so I don't get as much opportunity to break away as some of you single guys do.

Have I mentioned that my shoulder hurts, lol...

March 22, 2004, 05:32 PM
"Well, my handle is what I use on another forum, so its just easy for me to remember...I will consider something else in the future..."

Steve....I was just J/K.:D

Part of your charm is a simplisticly stupid handle.:neener:

I think the website is a great idea...we'll be able to better gauge it's success a little later down the road....besides.....Techbrute doesn't like to throw money away:rolleyes:

March 22, 2004, 05:37 PM
By the way...wanted to throw this out there...

I have never shot trap or skeet. I went bird hunting when I was 12 and got next to nothing. Would there be any interest in shotgun day where we did a little clay pigeon killing from the group? I've got a Mossberg 500 that has not seen daylight in 3 years, so it sounds fun to me.

Your thoughts?

March 22, 2004, 06:04 PM
YEAH!!!...shottys rule!!!

I know Techbrute is dying to get his $10,000.00 shotgun into the light of day and I have a Remi 870 Police that hasn't been fired yet. I would love to do both skeet shooting and some tactical shotty stuff. Maybe there is a rifle/shotgun friendly range I can find for next month.

March 22, 2004, 06:06 PM
That would be great. I would love to learn some tactical stuff also. Maybe I will keep my Pistol Grip Defender and put a short stock on it and use it for that purpose. That sounds like more fun than trading or selling it!

March 22, 2004, 06:13 PM
A round of sporting clays is always fun.....kind of like golf with guns :) Not very tactical, and I'm not very good.....but it IS very fun.

March 22, 2004, 06:22 PM
I know this doesn't exactly tie-in with our group meetings, but since we've been discussing places to shoot...

but in the course of trying to find a good private range to join, these are the two best choices I've come across. you guys might want to check em out...

March 22, 2004, 06:25 PM
I'd love to do a shotty day - I've got an 870 which I can't hit the ground with, and a long-barrelled 10 gauge double. I've shot skeet before and liked it, but would love to get introduced to clays.

Also I'd love it if somebody can tell me what the $%$*^$%^ I'm doing wrong with the 870!

And if we've got multiple 12 gauge 870s out together, we could always swap barrels around - see how your defender works for trap with a 28" full!

March 22, 2004, 06:27 PM
I'm in for a rifle day - most of mine are in dire need of getting sighted in.

I'll bring the .416 Rigby again. There's a Sendero in 7MM RUM that wants to come along too.

It was great meeting everybody. Sorry about getting turned around on the way to the bar. FWIW, I toasted everyone several times at the Benegin's I wound up at (Euless, I think).

I'd be glad to pitch in on a website - sounds like a great idea.


March 22, 2004, 06:54 PM
Hey Guys,

You can count me in for what little help I may be able to provide regarding the web site idea.
Ditto on the family/time commitment issues.
Need to loop someone in w/ the land :D

alduro, you thoughts on cross-training amongst us is a very good idea.
I know, I for one could use as much input as possible.
Always believe the only way to get better at something is to participate w/ others that are better than you.

I'm game for clays sometime.
Have access to an 870 to use. Used to go out to Alpine in high-school to shoot trap; been awhile though :rolleyes:

March 22, 2004, 07:00 PM

I shot at the range in Carrollton once when I first moved to Texas. Mostly nice folks, but somewhat limited in what you can shoot. You can shoot any rifle you want, as long as it's .22. I think they have IPSC or IDPA matches there along with some others. Since I like to get around to other ranges and such, I am hesitant to pay good money to "join" a range/club. Maybe that will be the nice thing about our group. We can basically be transient shooters with no home gun club and feel free to roam around.

As far as the web page goes, I have another idea "IF" we do this...

We can put a link page up. It will have links to the web pages of the various ranges we shoot at IF they give us a slight group discount on the range fee's. Maybe it will only save a few bucks, but I bet it will pay for the cost of the webpage hosting etc...

Hawk, thanks for the .416 shot, it was great! My bruise is "nice"

March 22, 2004, 08:05 PM
Techbrute doesn't like to throw money away
I know Techbrute is dying to get his $10,000.00 shotgun into the light of day

Come on now... play nice... :D

March 22, 2004, 08:21 PM
Announcer: "in this corner weighing in at 150 lbs. Techbrute!"



anyways, the shooting gallery where we were at said we can get a group discount of 10.00 a head next time by buying a 120.00 10 visit card and everybody get's a punch. OR we can join the range and go anytime for no charge. I think that is a hair over 300.00 bucks though. But for exclusive use of a pistol range and lounge in the adjacent building it might be worth a shot ESPECIALLY IF they allow us to draw from the holster and use shotties on that range....which they allow police to do. I am willing to bet that if the 12 of us got our cumlative $350.00 and waved a hair over $4,000.00 a year at the owner, he would swoon and let us do it.

I know it's a drive but think of it. Air conditioned, good ventalation, private lounge, go any time you want, shoot defensive shotties....could be a thought....of course there might be a better deal out there too. I would be willing to drive a little extra to be able to switch off from shotgun to pistol in one course...of course they let me do that anyway:D

March 22, 2004, 08:22 PM
As far as clays go, I'm in on that. It's been a while since I've done it, and I'm not any good, but I sure enjoy it!

Wife is back from San Diego, catch y'all tomorrow...

March 22, 2004, 09:09 PM
Sorry guys, I got the pics developed tonight but cannot scan them. My scanner will not connect.....ARRGHHHH!!!!:cuss:


speaking of frustration....does anyone know when the IDPA will be held at the shooting gallery?

March 22, 2004, 09:45 PM
Range Fee: $13.50

Ammo for the day $25.00

Getting aquainted with the .416 Rigby: Priceless

March 22, 2004, 10:08 PM
Getting aquainted with the .416 Rigby: Priceless

If you ask nice, I might let you try the 458 WITH the recoil pad on it -
but real tough guys won't need it!

Me, I use two...

March 22, 2004, 10:37 PM
I have had a run at a .458 a few years ago with the same result, lol. I don't mind the pain if all the "cool people" are doing it, lol.

March 22, 2004, 10:38 PM

You know where I work. If you want to, drop those pics off on your way to work tomorrow and I will scan them and email em to you. I won't be in till around 10:00-11:00, but you can leave them with my receptionist if you want.

March 22, 2004, 10:39 PM
The .416 didn't bother me so much, the derringer with the .44mags in them was the crazy gun. There was a BIG difference between the .44spl and the .44 mag!

Steve, when we do rifles next month, I'll show you how to shoot the big stuff without giving yourself hickeys. :D At least you have something to remember the $6 per shot rifle by.

March 22, 2004, 10:50 PM

Sometimes you just don't learn...When I shot the .458, I was told (after the first round) to keep the butt of the gun pressed very firmly againt my shoulder...thats what I "think" I failed to remember when I shot the .416 this time.

Oh well...

But please, any tips are great. I think thats whats going to make our group great, learning from each others experiences.

March 22, 2004, 10:56 PM
Hickeys my eye-more like a vampire bite:what:

What a great time-I am most interested in a rifle shoot. Will bring:

10/22 Ruger
Rem 700 vs 308
Rem 700 270 Win
Winchester 94 30/30

Guess I have to start saving those wrappers for the AR's and M1A's:evil:
Certainly need a closet full of those evil black almostassault rifles:neener:

March 22, 2004, 11:07 PM
Damn I missed a lot this evening with my internet not working lol. I'm willing to chip in for a website later on, and I agree with everything everyone else has mentioned :D That was easy enough...... By the way, my hand is still sore from that derringer lol, maybe after the rifles this next time I'll have to call in sick to work because I won't be able to use my shoulder. I'm up for some shooting pretty much anytime, even if it isn't one of the formal get togethers. Give me a day or two notice and I should be game. One other thing, I saw someone mention not being able to get away because they are not single, was there anyone there that was actually single lol. At least of all the guys that came to bennigans, we all appeared to be married or engaged

March 22, 2004, 11:10 PM
Yeah, one single guy in attendance. We have to work for a living so you married guys can run off to the bar and discuss your plight:D

March 22, 2004, 11:15 PM
Quote: "Also I'd love it if somebody can tell me what the $%$*^$%^ I'm doing wrong with the 870!"

If you shoot where it IS, you hit where it WAS. :D

Sorry I missed the good times. It looks like a bunch of 16U baseballers will keep me pretty occupied for the next few months, but maybe I'll catch a day "off" to meet some of you guys one of these days.

March 22, 2004, 11:32 PM
patentnonsense....I am not much of a skeet shooter at all....but if you want a tip or two doing defensive shotgun...I might be your man. To be honest, I forgot most of the shotgun training because practice HURTS.:D

Steve, I will try to remember to drop those pics off tomorrow.

BTW guys...I bought my first REAL rifle today......a Saiga 7.62*39. Not a .308....I'm gonna try and VEPR the thing out....I love a challenge.

Oh yeah....hey Steve...LOVE THE THIRD NIPPLE!!!


March 22, 2004, 11:36 PM
Oh yeah....hey Steve...LOVE THE THIRD NIPPLE!!! Ok, that's exactly what my wife said... scary.

March 22, 2004, 11:40 PM
Ok, here is what I have got:

My basic Mossberg 500 dressed in black, 28" barrell

My Winchester Defender, dressed in black, 18" barrell, pistol grip. I think I am going to remove the pistol grip and get a pistol grip/regular butt stock and add some other goodies to make it my tactical toy. Alduro, I will be looking to you for some tactical shotty in? Also, I will be at work till 8:00 tomorrow, so if not on your way to work, stop on your way home.

March 22, 2004, 11:51 PM
good lord, my browser opened to that photo and my first thought was that someone posted a shot of their nipple!! I was having super bowl flashbacks.


whew! that was close.

anyone want to see the scratch I got on my thumb from the stainless s&w .44 mag?


oh yeah, I'm single, although my current girlfriend doesn't think it's a permanent condition.

March 23, 2004, 12:01 AM
Hey Steve...I will be in as soon as my new speedfeed pistol grip/full stock arrives in the mail. I strongly suggest that if you want to do some "tactical" stuff with that thing that you get what is comfortable for you. From meeting you with your size and build I would suggest a short stock speed feed pistol gripper, you're about the same size as me. I believe it has about a 13 inch LOP with the pad on it... (yes you will need that). The full size is 14 inches...which is a little long for guys our size to do a proper chest mount "at the ready, low".

I might go as soon as this Sunday. Let me know.

March 23, 2004, 12:57 AM
Man this thread is speeding along nicely. Can't blink or nod off or too long.

I will be happy to pitch in for the web site idea if it remains feasible as we continue to meet.

I love the land idea too. That would be a dream come true. There would be so much more to do than shoot at paper. I would imagine we would have to have a few more folks to fund such an investment.

I have a lot to learn so I'm looking forward to any training exchange.

Alduro your accuracy with my cz 97b impressed me. Maybe I could get some pointers from you next time or if I run into you at the Shooting Gallary.


March 23, 2004, 08:43 AM
My God! What a sight to open up to. I too though it was a spare nipple of some kind.....You don't have any "golden guns", do you? :)

March 23, 2004, 08:51 AM
It's a nubbin.:D

March 23, 2004, 02:22 PM
TW guys...I bought my first REAL rifle today......a Saiga 7.62*39. Not a .308....I'm gonna try and VEPR the thing out....I love a challenge. Have you shot it yet? It's been a day.

March 23, 2004, 03:29 PM
Not next day off is Sunday.:D

March 23, 2004, 05:30 PM
geegee.....where did you get that "RKBA" sticker on your car? I love that!

March 23, 2004, 11:09 PM
AHHHH CRAP!!!! The Saiga's are back order everywhere. Looks like I'll be riding an SKS to the range. Poor man's Dragunov.:D

Hey Nimare.....the 97 .45 you have is just a natural fit for my hand. I am a HUGE CZ fan. HUGE dude, but I have to stick with one platform, I only have a Beretta cause I stole it at the price I got it.

I would love to give you some pointers on shooting handguns...but Techbrute was no slouch either...aside from limpwristing a Pro so bad it FTF.:D

I use a both eyes open approach to shooting handguns. It helps to relax your vision so that you are not predisposed to distort your target/sights combo. Works for me, it was one of the things we learned doing the combat pistol training. The logic was that in an actual fight you're going to be so scared that BOTH eyes will be open, so learn to shoot like that. It's funky at first, but once you learn it and see how fast and accurate you can be, you'll never go back.

Steve....I forgot to drop those pictures by....DOH:cuss:

RKBA "Right to Kick Butt A##hole"...? close enough right?

I'll try to get them by tomorrow morning though, I may not be able to though because I am picking up my marriage license tomorrow.:uhoh::evil:

March 23, 2004, 11:34 PM
I would love to give you some pointers on shooting handguns...but Techbrute was no slouch either...aside from limpwristing a Pro so bad it FTF. I'll have to say that not many people accuse me of being limpwristed. It's probably due to the chesthair... or my redneck pickup truck... or the Colt Anaconda... :D I really enjoyed that Pro, though. I may decide to pick one up eventually, but I need to finish my rifle projects first.

because I am picking up my marriage license tomorrow. The countdown begins... your days are numbered.:neener: :evil:

I'm going to be heading to Military Antiques in the next few days to pick up a G3 or Cetme. Is there a waiting period for rifles in Texas? I haven't bought a gun through a shop in Texas in 10 years or more...

March 24, 2004, 12:36 AM
Nope no waiting period. Hey never sent that info regarding what to look for in a the way...from what I'm told, get the one with the wood furniture because it has a stainless reciever.

And the crowd falls hush at the awsome wisdom of Alduro.....:rolleyes:

That is the extent of what I know about them. DON'T TELL THEM YOUR FROM KALI....they'll charge DOUBLE:D

Sylvilagus Aquaticus
March 24, 2004, 01:05 AM
Sorry I missed the range day. Too much travel- family stuff. I'll try to be there next time and bring the FAL and other toys...certainly the M44 if it's a rifle party.

CZ97? I wanna play! I'm anxious to hear all the upside/downside to them.


March 24, 2004, 09:58 AM
alduro, if you can, drop off the pics. I will be here from 9-12 today (Wed) and from 12-8 on Thursday.

Sorry to here about your Saiga saga....

You can wear out my SKS next time along with the M44.

March 24, 2004, 01:51 PM
Steve I will drop the pics by tomorrow...but I would like to get them back at the next shoot....I will drop them off after 12:00....after ordering a unissued Yugo SKS.....I have one you think I should leave the grenade launcher and bayonett on?:p

March 24, 2004, 02:16 PM
Well, I really like my Russian with the Bayo on it. Ideally, I would have this SKS and one that I could trick out a bit. Dressed in black, bi-pod, etc...

Before you buy that thing...remember, my C&R license will be coming soon...

March 24, 2004, 04:16 PM
When do you expect to get your C&R?

March 24, 2004, 07:32 PM

March 24, 2004, 07:32 PM
Alduro - My C&R is already here. Aim and SOG have it on file - I'd be happy to help out in the meantime. BTW, I have one of the unissued Yugo SKS's gathering dust if you'd like to give it a test drive before ordering.

aguyindallas - Yipes! Nice pic you posted. I'm betting that bruise has turned all kinds of nifty colors since monday. I don't know what's going on with the old girl - the Rigby has never behaved that badly before. I'll make sure to bring her along to the next shoot - a little quality time together and I'm sure y'awl will make up.

Techbrute - thanks for the turn with the Anaconda - I guess I'll just toss the rest of that PMC .44 - gotta be the ammo if we both got stuck cases. I don't get it - I keep reading threads with people claiming tens of thousands of rounds of every kind of ammo made with no grief and I get S&B 7.62X25 spitting primers, a 9mm squib from MagTech and now .44 PMC cases from hell inside six months :(


March 24, 2004, 07:38 PM've got PM. I am very interested in getting one of those. I wanted to get somthing before our next get together....I need a rifle anyways.

March 24, 2004, 07:47 PM
Techbrute - thanks for the turn with the Anaconda - I guess I'll just toss the rest of that PMC .44 - gotta be the ammo if we both got stuck cases. I don't get it - I keep reading threads with people claiming tens of thousands of rounds of every kind of ammo made with no grief and I get S&B 7.62X25 spitting primers, a 9mm squib from MagTech and now .44 PMC cases from hell inside six months Yeah, I've always had good luck with PMC, as a matter of fact, that's the only brand of ammo I've ever put through that gun.:confused:

March 24, 2004, 09:02 PM
My C&R is still about a month away is my best know how fast the ATF is...NOT AT ALL! I should have never let it expire! Hawk, I will want to talk to you about where you are buying C&R from when the time comes.

March 24, 2004, 10:00 PM
for the guys who've gotten their C&Rs already, about how long did it take? I sent mine in about two weeks ago.

March 24, 2004, 10:11 PM
geegee.....where did you get that "RKBA" sticker on your car? I love that!
Sorry so long in my response! :o I've been in St Louis since Monday, traveleing with my Californian, vegetarian, liberal, anti-gun boss...:rolleyes: Yikes.

Anyway, here's a link to the website:

The latest addition is the new "Molon Labe" bumper stickers. Very cool! That's also where I got my Molon Labe cap.

I haven't forgotten to get some info for a good rifle class. Now that I've ditched my boss, I'll get back on track and hopefully have some news for y'all soon. geegee

March 24, 2004, 10:15 PM
geegee.....I thought you were looking into a "handgun" class. Was it rifles?

March 24, 2004, 10:45 PM
Sylvilagus Aquaticus,

Sorry you could not make it. I was looking forward to putting a face with the name.

The 97b be is very nice if the grip is not too big for your hands. It is for some folks but Alduro and I compared it to his Barretta 92 and didn't see much difference. Very comfortable and thus easier to be accurate with if you do everything right. The frame is full length - makes for a prettier gun and also acts a sort of a compensator making the recoil a lot less. Can't beat the 10 +1 capacity in .45 ACP either.

On the down side...most folks will say it is under sprung and go with a higher lbs. wolf spring which I need to do also. Some reshape and polish the feed ramp to eliminate problems with feeding jhp's as I have also done.

I hope to make it at the next shoot and let more folks shoot it.


What is "C & R", what does it allow you to do?

I've been working hard on my wife to help her understand the absolute nessecity of adding a rifle to my 2 handgun collection as I have a birthday coming up in a week but haven't gotten to far yet.

I've been looking for an AK or SKS.


March 24, 2004, 10:45 PM
I thought it was rifles, but I'm flexible. Want me to change gears? geegee

March 24, 2004, 10:54 PM
no BOTH!!!:D

I personally do not have a rifle that I would consider being able to be used for a good training day. The cost of training alone would be more than my mere SKS would be.:rolleyes:

What type of training have you been looking at regarding rifles.

DonNikmare: A C&R is a curio relic license, you can use it to get an SKS but thats about it for semi- auto rifles. The SKS can be had from 89 to 300.00. Right now unissued Yugos are available at CDNN for 179.00.

"most folks will say it is under sprung and go with a higher lbs. wolf spring which I need to do also" were launching brass right on top of my head 2 lanes over. That thing (donnikmare's 97) needs a new recoil spring badly...:scrutiny:

Geegee, do you think an SKS would cut it for the rifle training you have in mind? I know that steve, myself, donnikmare and I'm sure a couple of others are doing good to have an SKS. that's a different story:D

March 24, 2004, 11:02 PM
you were launching brass right on top of my head 2 lanes over. That thing needs a new recoil spring badly...

LOL Sorry about that, was not aware.

I tried some +P rounds and could definetely tell I needed a new stronger spring - the slide stop was doing too much of the slide stopping. :uhoh:


March 24, 2004, 11:07 PM
My C&R took about 6 weeks, IIRC.

A C&R is a curio and relic FFL that permits you to purchase firearms designated as curio and relic direct for delivery to your home. C&R's are firearms over (kinda oversimplified ) 50 years old or designated in the ATF literature as curio/relic. Better still, it gets you trade discounts at some places (Brownell's, for one).

$30.00 for 3 years - deal of the century if you don't mind keeping the book and making the ATF welcome if they stop by - I believe you only get announced inspections on a C&R and they're reportedly rare. It specifically does not allow you to conduct a (01 FFL) business. So it likely wouldn't be advisable to buy too many that don't land in your safe - I'm not aware of any fast and hard guidelines on this however.

Some of the other Crufflers will set me straight if I got the above wrong.

The only other .44 I've got on hand is Starfire which I guess is just gussied up PMC - we'll see if that stuff needs a hammer to extract the cases - grrr.

March 24, 2004, 11:15 PM
Well, I just found out Alduro types faster than I do - sorry about the duplicate on C&R's.

I believe there's more selection than just the SKS, though. The M1 Garand comes to mind - definitely more $ than an SKS though. SOG has nice M49's too - I believe these are like an early model FAL.


March 24, 2004, 11:23 PM
work BOTH!!!
No sweat, Bro! I've sent an email to one of the owners of T.I.G.E.R. Valley, telling him we're interested. Let's see what he comes back with, i.e. pistol, rifle, or shotgun, whatever. I'll tell you guys this, take one good training course, and you'll really get hungry for more. It does a lot to raise your level of confidence with that particular weapon, whatever it may be (and it's a lot of fun, too!). Here's a link to their website:

I'll let you guys know what I hear, ASAP. geegee

March 24, 2004, 11:42 PM
OK, there seems to be a little confusion on what a C&R is and what can be done with it. Now, we don't want anybody to end up somebody's girlfriend at the Federal Pen, so lets get a few things straight.


*Purpose of 03 Curio and Relics Federal Firearms License (C&R)*
The purpose of a C&R is to enable firearms collectors to more easily obtain their items. It is NOT, repeat: NOT, to be used in a commercial fashion or to be used to provide all your buddies with rifles. It is to be used to further the collection of the C&R holder.

*What Qualifies as a C&R-Eligible Firearm?*
Short answer--Whatever the ATF says qualifies. Generally, C&Rs are arms manufactured more than 50 years ago or unique or "commemorative" or "collectible" editions of other firearms. See links below for the whole deal. A few examples on what is currently available (and currently cheap):
Commie Block Mosin Nagant Rifles (91/30, 38, 44)
Yugo Mausers (M48, M48A, others)
Commie SKS (most of 'em, anyway)
Turk Mausers
K31 Schmidt-Rubin Swiss rifles
CZ52 pistols

*Benefits of C&Rs*
C&R purchases sent right to your door without paying a FFL transfer fee at the local gunshop (Yeeaah, baybee!). A C&R costs $30 for three years. A reasonable transfer fee is $25. You do the math. Oh, and many online gun supply retailers give you a discount, including Brownells, the "JC Whitney of guns." I love Brownells.

*Reason NOT to get a C&R*
If you can't keep your checkbook straight, or are a disorganized record-keeper, don't bother. You gotta keep some simple, accurate records of your purchases & dispositions. If your idea of "organized" is to have different piles of papers laying about your office, don't go for a C&R.

* Staying within the law*
OK, you can't buy & sell C&Rs on a commercial basis, and you can't buy a C&R with the intention of turning around and selling it to your buddy. You CAN buy a C&R for yourself with the intention of improving your collection. You CAN buy a duplicate of something you already own with the intention of improving your collection and selling the first one. You can ALSO buy several of the same C&R, pick the best of the lot, and sell off the rest with the intention of improving your collection. Saying, "Hey, I got a C&R & can get you an XYZ rifle for wholesale plus shipping with no transfer fee." is the wrong answer.

*Caveat, weasel words, disclaimer, clinton clause, and general CYA pencilwhipping*
I am not a lawyer and I don't write the ATF's rules. The above is a distillation of what I have read in the regs and regurgitated in an easier-to-follow format. If you intend on getting/using a C&R, READ THE REGS. And follow them. No need to give the JBTs reasons to "pull a weaver" on your home.


FWIW, I have a C&R FFL. I have bought a couple of C&Rs with it, but my eyes are bigger than my wallet. I have already saved, in one year, more than the $30 fee on discounted gun supplies from Aim, Brownells, Midway, etc.

I am ever on the hunt for more C&Rs. The Ruser Corp. CFO, however, is a hard sell on new C&Rs. Also, I told myself I'd spend more money shooting & training this year than on new firearms.

That said, I'm on the hunt for a Swede CG63, Finn M-N M39, Swede M96, CZ52, among others (...wipes drool off keyboard...).


Hope this helps & I don't mean to jump on anybody. I saw a few comments that might could be misconstrued. Best to nip it in the bud.


Information resources to get started:

C&R Application:

What qualifies as a C&R:

March 24, 2004, 11:44 PM
SOG....they've got a couple I wouldn't mind seeing. Thanks for putting the leg work in Geegee.

March 25, 2004, 12:11 AM
Hawk, Alduro, and jfruser

Thanks for the info, clarifications, and the SOG site.

The SOG site has a Romanian AK in the list under "Surplus Rifles."

Does that mean it's being sold as an C & R or is it just for sale as a regular firearm (couldn't figure this out by just looking at the site)?
It does say "ATF Approved" in red letters as if to point out a new approval of it as a C & R but without specifying if that's the case.

The info. I've come across through google seems to point to the Yugo SKS's as the best - most durable, robust, etc. Is that a common and correct perception?


March 25, 2004, 02:02 AM
what do you guys think about this?

March 25, 2004, 02:04 AM mean the names or are we building a free site?

Also...I have everybody's contact info I think. Is everyone okay if I email everyone else their contact info? Kind of like a phone/email list.

March 25, 2004, 02:05 AM
I set up a group for us on Yahoo. Check it out and see what you think...

March 25, 2004, 02:10 AM
very cool. I just joined.

March 25, 2004, 02:15 AM
I just thought it might take some of the strain off of this thread


March 25, 2004, 02:23 AM
I think we are going for THR largest thread ever award.:D

March 25, 2004, 08:23 AM
Feel free to pass my info on to the group, I see no problem.

March 25, 2004, 10:30 AM

The Yahoo gorup is a good idea. I used them a lot in graduate school. For those of you not familiar with them you get controlled access, group email adress, chat & file storage.


It's OK with me if you distriubute my info to the group.


Not to be a stick-in-the-mud. but I wouldn't advertise that I was buying guns for other people with my C&R....bad juju with the dept. of Saturday Night.

March 25, 2004, 10:48 AM

Its OK if you distribute my info to the group.

March 25, 2004, 02:24 PM
I will format the data a little later tonight and see if I can email an attachment of it to everyone.

March 25, 2004, 05:49 PM
alduro you can pass out my info to the group

March 25, 2004, 06:27 PM
OK to pass my info out too - please use the work email - the home computer is getting a brain transplant tonight. Post-op recovery may not be immediate.

Just got a call that I can pick up my box of .416 rounds. If the next shoot is rifles, there'll be plenty on hand :D

March 25, 2004, 09:03 PM
alduro: I'm fine with the Yahoo group.

I've also just received a reply from T.I.G.E.R Valley. My question was whether there was a possibility of us having shorter training classes (as opposed to a full weekend class, typically costing several hundred dollars). I had discussed this previously with TJ Pilling. He's one of the owners, a Cerified Instructor in numerous weapons, and a local SWAT officer. Here's his response:
You bet, we have a 10 person requirement on the number of students. We can do it in the evening or on a weekend. The cost per shooter is $35.00. We have done several 2 hour mid-week classes. The last one was a low light class. We can cover a wide range of shooting topics like moving and shooting, moving targets, shooting from concealment, or what every you guys desire. Let me know
Woo-hooo! This could be very cool. We may need to discuss this further at Yahoo. geegee

March 25, 2004, 09:03 PM
What do you guys think of having the next get together on April 16 or 17? Will that work for everybody?

March 25, 2004, 09:16 PM
I don't think I have anything interfering with that, but I'll wait until it gets closer to commit.

March 25, 2004, 09:18 PM
Sounds good geegee, $35 bucks is a damn good deal. Now we have to decide on what kind of course :D alduro, 17th would be good for me. the 16th is a friday and I don't get off til 3:30pm

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