need info and advice on high power


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Detritus
February 9, 2003, 07:38 PM
yesterday (sat) i visited the local high power match to see what it was all about. unfortunately a number of factors, (time, cold, promised wife i'd take care of certain things ect) , kept me from being able to spend as much time as i would have liked, adn asking more questions.
but the experience has led me to want to look into this as a possible second shooting sport, (till reacently i have been shooting CAS matches,).

is there a website that gives good info on a typical match? some how i don't figure 6 guys total, shooting in relays of 3 is a typical match (even the group that was there yesterday seemed a bit disappointed in turnout.

also what would those of you that shoot this discipline, advise as "bare bones basic equipment"?? i can't afford to spend a huge wad of cash just to see if it's "fun" to me.
again unfortuneately about 8 months ago i had to sell a gun that probably would have been a good bargain starting choice, i had a Savage 110FP in .223, that with good relaods and if i did my job shoot 1/2 MOA groups or better. and since i actually LIKED the savage, i have been thinking of looking for another like it, though this time i'd get the true short action (i bought the 110 about 6 months before they brought out the short actions! and since my only problem with the gun came from it being a short round in a long action, that was a real pisser :banghead: ).

so what all do i need (minimum scope power, any advantage of .308 over .223), is there a listing of rules, what all variations in match format are there, ect ect.

thank you for your time and any info you can give. and please keep in mind that yesterday was the first time i was truly exposed to this particular type of match.

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Rockrivr1
February 9, 2003, 10:07 PM
Hi Detritus,

I just started getting into Highpower shooting myself. I decided to go with the AR-15 so I could compete in the Service Rifle division.

The NRA site has some good information under the Shooting section and the How to Get Started section. It describes the different divisions and what type of rifle fits into it. You may want to start there. There are many other sites as well that give good information.

To be honest though, I learned more talking to the guys on this forum about the ins and outs of Highpower. You'll get some great advise from these guys. If you search "The Firing Line" and on this forum under my screen name, you will see lots of advise from which weapon to get, what sling works best, the best ammo, Mag information and which spotting scope works best.

I wouldn't be where I am today without the advise and support of the people on this forum.

Good Luck with starting out. You'll have a great time with it. I know I am.

7.62mm
February 9, 2003, 11:21 PM
I presume you are interested in the standard 200, 300, and 600 yard course of fire with metallic sights. The only time I have seen scopes on the weapons is in NRA Long Range matches, any rifle, any sight (Known as "Any-Any" matches). Which is another whole area of study all by its lonesome.

The best books I have seen on the subject of NRA Highpower Comeptition are:

Modern Highpower Competition - From Beginner to Master by Randolph Constantine. $39.95 + Shipping & Handling.

The Highpower Shooting Primer which is a compilation of articles "... From the pages of Precison Shooting Magazine 1990-1999" $34.95 + Shipping & Handling.

Both are published by Precision Shooting.

You can order them at: http://www.precisionshooting.com/books.html

If I were starting over again, I would go with an AR-15 clone. It is much easier to shoot than the .30s, especially in rapid fire. The .223 with the heavy 77 grain bullets with the fast twist rifles will buck the wind pretty well at 600. Well enough to win the match if you do your part.

Getting an AR allows you to shoot service rifle and convert to a "Space Gun" for match rifle competition later on if you desire and can afford it. All with the same lower receiver.

You will be competitive with an AR, not so with a Garand or M1A. (Much as I love them and have them for my Main Battle Rifles of the flag ever goes up, they are not competitve with the ARs any longer)

The matches are fun to shoot with anything, but if you want to shoot well, shoot what works.

Constantine's book will give you a list of everything you need to consider and buy to get started.

Hope this helps.

Regards,

7.62mm

Steve Smith
February 10, 2003, 01:12 AM
These guys have you on the right track for sure. As RockRivr said, search here and TFL for "Highpower" and his or my name in conjuction with "Highpower." Concentrate your search in the Competition and Art of the Rifle forums.

The "Any/Any" type of Highpower isn't an official course of fire yet, and may not ever be, unless they add a seperate set of targets and perhaps another day at the Nationals. This is a somewhat heated topic amongst the HP world right now and it would be best to not plan for it at this time. The one type of NRA Highpower that does use scopes is F Class, but it is not very popular. The two very popular types are Service Rifle and Match Rifle class. Troy's suggestion to read about them on the NRA site is a good one and will keep me from typing it again. :)


You CAN use your Savage, but it will cost you a good deal to set it up for HP as you'll be in Match Rifle class. In MR you might as well have a really nice set of sights as everyone else will, for sure. Beyond that, the rifle will need to be clip slotted and you will need a better stock than what comes with the rifle. Do all that and you could probably buy a nice AR Service Rifle or AR "spacegun" Match Rifle. HP isn't a cheap sport to get into, but luckily it costs very little for sustainment. I'd suggest you search TFL in the Competition forum for "cheap" cross referenced with my name. I wrote up a little "how to do this on the cheap" post there on someone's thread.

After reading all this stuff, give us a shout when you come up with some questions. We'll be very glad to help.

BTW, there is a Texas Highpower forum if you'd like the URL.

Detritus
February 10, 2003, 02:24 AM
at the local match i went to, what has been refered to by Steve as F-class (shooting HP with a scope), was the predominant style chosen, of course it was mainly men above the age of 45 shooting at 600 meters only. we had one guy shooting a Garand in service rifle and one man (the match director for the club) shooting Match rifle. again this match was the ONLY exposure to HP i've had and i thought that F-class shooting would be a higher percentage than it's being made out to be here. if it's not then i might start out that way then later on switch to service rifle (i want another scoped bolt gun in .223 anyway, since i had to seel my last one)

Detritus
February 10, 2003, 03:54 AM
can any body give me a run down of what a "service rifle" AR-15 can have on it? such as is there a reason why the companies that offer faux flash suppressors, or other similar "muzzle devices" (like Fulton Armory's "the look" muzzle device) do not offer said option on their "NRA/CMP service rifle" versions??

thank you once again for your time, and answers it has been very helpful. now if i cna just get a job so i can afford to get into this sport !!!!:banghead: i'll be alot happier

Steve Smith
February 10, 2003, 10:13 AM
A lot of small town or non-active ranges will have a big mix of guns to show up for Highpower matches. To be semantically correct, SR, MR, F-Class, and Palma are ALL Highpower. As long as your range is using the correct 200, 300, and 600 yard targets, I wouldn't worry about what else shows up. SR amd MR almost ALWAYS fire at the same matches at the same time.

There is a lot of HP in Texas, so don't let this get you down. In addition, the winter is really our "downtime" so you can't judge participation based on winter attendence. You're probably just seeing the hardcore shooters right now.

Regarding CMP legal ARs. The CMP (www.odcmp.com) has a type of match called the Excellence in Competition (EIC) match (commonly called a Leg match) that basically uses the same set of rules as NRA Service Rifle. Most SR shooters shoot Leg matches as well with the same guns, and compete for the highly prized Distinguished Rifeman badge. An AR that is outfitted for NRA SR and CMP EIC may not have a muzzle brake at all. For that matter, a Match Rifle or F-Class may not have one either. The rifle must appear as issued, with exception of stainless barrels and minimum sight improvements. Therefore the rifle must appear to be an M16 from the outside. Since flash hiders are illegal on a post-ban AR, the acceptable substitute is a plain barrel (no muzzle device). A brake is very disturbing to other shooters and is not allowed in ANY Highpower match. (except a non-official match at a down-home range...they might net a newbie do it a few times.)


I have a High Master friend near you that would like to meet with you at a match or two. I'll send you his email address.

Detritus
February 10, 2003, 08:59 PM
the Fulton armory item called "the look" isn't a brake, it isn't a real flash suppresor. it's a custome fitted, BATF legal removable "muzzle device" that is nothing more than a threaded chunk of steel the size of an A2 flash supressor, with milled in cosmetic ridges that mimic the bircage of a FS, the muzzle end of the device is milled with a 12 degree crown, so it serves as a target crown as well. it is unported fo it is nothing but a cosmetic addition to the end of the barrel. serves the dual purpose of muzzle protection and making a post-ban look less ( i hate to use the term but..) Castrated. i'm guessing the threads are different from those of a real flash supressor so that that pre-ban part won't fit.

like i said i'll be getting an upper so equipted anyway and i don't figure that for a newbie a local match, they'll worry about the sights

since it ISN'T a brake and it isn't a Flash Hider. is there a reason to disallow it?? yes i know this may be splitting hairs, but i am of course new so soemthing just don't quite sit right yt ect., plus i imagine if need be i could get someone to make a threaded protector fot he muzzle threads till cuch time as i got a legit CMP rifle.

also thanks for the info on your friend i'll email him either tonight or when i get up int eh morning (been up for over 24 hours at the moment, need sleep badly)
.

Steve Smith
February 10, 2003, 09:16 PM
From the Official NRA rules handbook.

3.1.2 Service Rifle-U.S. Rifle, Caliber 5.56 min M16 series as issued by
the U.S. Armed Forces, or the same type and caliber of commercially procured
rifle, without bipod or grenade launcher, having not less than a 41/2 pound
trigger pull, with standard-type stock, pistol grip, handguard, and leather or
web sling. The rifle must be so modified as to be incapable of automatic fire
without removing, replacing, or altering parts. In all courses of fire and in all
positions the standard 20-round or 30-round box magazine or a reduced
capacity magazine of the same external dimensions will be attached. The gas
system must be fully operational. External alterations to the barrel, upper and lower receivers, stock, handguard, or pistol grip will not be allowed , except
that a device may be attached to prevent selector lever movement to the auto
position. The front and rear sights must be the standard design. The rear sight
aperture and front sight width may vary in dimensions to suit the shooter. The
rear sight aperture may be hooded. Versions or adaptations of the M 1 6 type rifle
consisting of external modifications or alterations, will be shot as an NRA
Match Rifle, except as allowed in Rule 3.1.3. The trigger weight of these
versions or adaptations will not be less than 4 1/2 pounds, except as noted in
Rule 3.3. 1. A case deflector (DVC-T-30 or commercial equivalent) is allowed.

3.1.3 Service Rifle- Any rifle or modified rifle not covered by NRA Rules
3.1, 3.1.1, or 3.1.2, but permitted by CMP rules are considered service rifles
in NRA sanctioned competition.


Sometimes rules are subjective. Realistically, its probably going to be ok...but I personally think that its an external alteration. there is something to be said for following the rules out of respect for the game. Either there is a flash hider up there or nothing, IMHO. But I wouldn't stop you from shooting in a match I was running, either.

Oh, and FWIW, I wouldn't spend one plug nickel with Fulton.

Detritus
February 23, 2003, 12:34 AM
gonna send this around again one more time to see if there is any more advice to be had here :)

thank you all for the info so far.

Steve Smith
February 23, 2003, 12:52 AM
Need questions first. ;)

tlekas
February 23, 2003, 01:12 AM
If you have a local club that is involved in the Civilian Marksmanship Program (CMP) they may have equipment that they will let you borrow for a number of matches so you can decide if you are going to be serious enough to spend the money. Our local CMP affiliated club does that all the time. Contact whoever handles highpower or CMP at the club an let them know that you are interested.

hps1
February 27, 2003, 12:05 PM
Check your PM. Sent you some contact info for HP in your area.

Regards,
hps

Steve Smith
February 27, 2003, 12:35 PM
tlekas brought up a good point. Just show up. You'll be able to borrow whatever you don't have.

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