Dad kills family after daughter calls 911


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Chaz
December 28, 2002, 06:55 PM
Dad kills family after daughter calls 911
By Colleen Slevin
The Associated Press

December 28, 2002

DENVER -- An 8-year-old called 911 and told a dispatcher that her father had threatened to "pop" her stepmother with a handgun. Nine minutes later, police found the girl, her parents and her 4-year-old half-brother dead.

Funeral services were held Friday for the Hernandez family, victims of a murder-suicide in a middle-class neighborhood of Colorado Springs, a city 60 miles south of Denver.

Autopsies indicated that Ernest Hernandez, 40, shot his common-law wife, Tosha Wasserburger, 29; Michaela, 8; and Mykel, 4, with an automatic handgun before killing himself, the El Paso County Coroner's Office said. Hernandez was drunk at the time, officials said.

Michaela, a second-grader, called police at 3:22 a.m. Dec. 20 and said her parents were fighting. "My dad slapped her in her face and just pushed her back," she said.

She told the dispatcher she heard her father load a gun. "My dad's holding the gun telling that he'd pop my stepmom Tosha," she said.

At the end of the three-minute call, the dispatcher assured Michaela that officers were on the way and reminded her to stay safe and remain on the line.

Then there was a long pause and her stepmother was heard saying "She's calling 911." The phone went dead. Hernandez answered the phone when the dispatcher called back. He said, "911? Who called 911?" before hanging up.

Officers arrived at the rented house nine minutes later, police spokesman Lt. Skip Arms said Friday. When no one answered the door, they kicked in the front door and found the bodies in a downstairs bedroom.

Hernandez had personal and financial problems. His heating and air conditioning company had been struggling, and the bank was about to repossess the company van, according to court records.

Police said Friday that Hernandez had lost his bid to win full custody of Michaela, his daughter from a previous marriage, on Dec. 19, the day before the slayings.

Hernandez went out drinking after the hearing, police said.



We dont need guns for self defense, we have 911. Way to go VPC, Brady Bunch, et all. :mad:

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denfoote
December 28, 2002, 09:07 PM
If the little kid had access to another gun, only the insane father would be dead!! But, we have to keep guns away from the childreeeeeeen!!! Why?? So they can die at the hands of their parents??!! :rolleyes: :mad:

Capital Punishment
December 28, 2002, 09:28 PM
Does it say if there was a restraining order on the husband?

2dogs
December 28, 2002, 09:41 PM
"Dial 911 and Die"

deej
December 28, 2002, 09:42 PM
Originally posted by denfoote
If the little kid had access to another gun, only the insane father would be dead!! But, we have to keep guns away from the childreeeeeeen!!! Why?? So they can die at the hands of their parents??!! :rolleyes: :mad:

Do you HONESTLY think an eight year old is going to shoot her own father for threatening her STEP-mom?

DJ

Standing Wolf
December 28, 2002, 09:42 PM
If I were a gambler, I'd wager the killer was already on parole and/or probation.

Blackhawk
December 28, 2002, 10:48 PM
Tragic and stupid! :mad:

This isn't the last we'll hear about this story....

nualle
December 28, 2002, 10:58 PM
deej wrote:
Do you HONESTLY think an eight year old is going to shoot her own father for threatening her STEP-mom?
This is Colorado Springs we're talking about... ultra-conservative "family values" country. There's gotta be a pretty compelling reason the step-mom, a non-relative, got custody and the father didn't. The guy must have had a history.

Tosha shoulda had a gun and the will to use it. :sigh:

nsf003
December 28, 2002, 11:23 PM
Sigh

That's about how I'm feeling right now.

nsf

sm
December 29, 2002, 01:29 AM
" Nine minutes later" add the 3 min call, 12 minutes, yes I think a child with a handgun would have perhaps made a difference. If nothing else distraction until the officers arrived...sadly we'll never know...

PATH
December 29, 2002, 01:46 AM
911 can't help you if you're dead by the time help arrives!

80fl
December 29, 2002, 06:34 AM
Officers arrived at the rented house nine minutes later, police spokesman Lt. Skip Arms said Friday. When no one answered the door, they kicked in the front door and found the bodies in a downstairs bedroom.

It's very sad that, from the early years in the public indoctrination centers, chillin's are taught that "officer friendly" will protect you.

The only way cops can "protect" you is if there are two or three stationed in every house.

Malone LaVeigh
December 29, 2002, 05:44 PM
C'mon, guys, it's pretty far-fetched to try to turn this into a "she should have been packing" thread. Bad stuff happens. We need to do whatever we can to keep firepower away from nutcases. Bad stuff will still happen. We believe that the good outweighs the bad. But as long as we deny the truth about situations like this, we just give the anti's more ammunition.

labgrade
December 29, 2002, 08:26 PM
Waiting for exactly this post.

"We need to do whatever we can to keep firepower away from nutcases."

OK & I'll bite.

How'd you do that?

Details please, & specifics. Draw up A Law.

Said it many a time before; I'm for gun control to prevent the deed.

Problem is = I don't have any idea/s how to do that without preventing & subverting the rights of the (vast) majority who will never misues their firearms.

The Crux.

Obviously, I've jumped on one of our own who proposed a "whatever"-clause & isn't justified other than to expose that.

That "whatever we can do to prevent" will kill everything freedom-wise we could ever envision.

Never! take that road & never even utter it again.

The "cure" is likely much worse than any of the diseases.

Kukri
December 29, 2002, 10:53 PM
I saw this story on the California news. At the end the, the news anchor said " This story encourages children to call 911." I heard this and thought that makes absolutely no sense. She called 911 and died. If the kid had something to defend her family with, they might still be alive.

deej
December 30, 2002, 12:11 AM
Originally posted by Kukri
I saw this story on the California news. At the end the, the news anchor said " This story encourages children to call 911." I heard this and thought that makes absolutely no sense. She called 911 and died. If the kid had something to defend her family with, they might still be alive.

So what is a proper self-defense caliber for an eight year old? Should they start off with a .45, or maybe just a 9mm?

What kind of training should eight year old CCW holders go through? And is Toys'R'Us going to start carrying extra-small gunbelts?

Should they be in condition orange while playing dodgeball, or reserve that for when they are getting their lunch money out of their backpacks?

No, I'm genuinely curious.

DJ

Kukri
December 30, 2002, 02:16 AM
Deej,

Maybe a .22 caliber rifle on hand. Easy to operate and can cause some damage. Maybe having a firearm may not be prudent in that situation, but I would think it would be better to try something in addition to just calling 911. The situation sounds horrible and i feel sorry for that dead family.

Kukri
December 30, 2002, 02:18 AM
Deej,

What would you like to have seen happen in that situation?

I wish the mom could have defended herself.

deej
December 30, 2002, 02:34 AM
Originally posted by Kukri
Deej,

What would you like to have seen happen in that situation?

I wish the mom could have defended herself.

The mother absolutely could have (and should have!) defended herself and her family. But I can't belive that anyone would seriously suggest that an eight year old girl is going to open fire on her own father.

If the kid had something to defend her family with, they might still be alive.

Eight years old. Santa Claus and Barney are real to eight year olds. Do you really think that eight year olds have the emotional and logical capacity to make a rational decision about the use of deadly force?

Yes, this was a tragedy, and it's logical to look for answers and alternatives. But arming eight year olds isn't one of them.

DJ

Kukri
December 30, 2002, 02:57 AM
Yes I do believe that an 8 year old could fire upon her father when he is slaying the family. I do realize the the mother should have protected the family. Don't underestimate eight year olds. They might not believe in Santa and Barney is definately to childish. some eight year old know about the real world and that bad things do happen. Arming the eight year old may not be the best thing, but it might have helped.

80fl
December 30, 2002, 09:21 AM
Malone LaVeigh said:

C'mon, guys, it's pretty far-fetched to try to turn this into a "she should have been packing" thread. Bad stuff happens. We need to do whatever we can to keep firepower away from nutcases. Bad stuff will still happen. We believe that the good outweighs the bad. But as long as we deny the truth about situations like this, we just give the anti's more ammunition.

I always worry when I hear one of our own parrot the Brady Bunch line.
Just who, may I ask, should be in charge of determining who the "nutcase" is that should be barred from firearm ownership?
According to the Brady Bunch, as well as most left leaning dirtballs, most who own firearms, by definition, are "nutcases".

What happened to this family is a tragedy. In our society we seem to have forgotten that at times there are unfortunate things that happen that you cannot protect yourself from preemptively.

Obviously this woman should have been armed. So to should the child have known how to protect herself. Neither was the case. Let's not blame the gun.

YankeeRebel
December 30, 2002, 10:03 AM
I am certain that this will give the antis more fodder for their grist mill as they just love those murder-suicide happenings. Then the pointing to Japan with thier low murder rate is touted as a reason for us to pass common sense gun laws. HA! I was told one time that in Japan happenings like this are treated as a suicide. Papasan is the determining factor. Don't know if this was or still is true or not. It it is true then it doesn't provide a true statistic for comparisons.

NINEX19
December 30, 2002, 10:38 AM
I really do not think this is a case where a gun in the hands of an eight year old little girl would have made a difference. Does anyone honestly think she would have shot her father? If the Mom had a gun, they might all still be alive though.

We DON'T need MORE laws to keep the guns away from the nutcases, we need to enforce the existing laws that keep guns from nutcases and punish those that break those laws.

Then again, you can not legislate the mind. If a bad guy has the intent, he will always find a way; no matter what laws exist.

Airwolf
December 30, 2002, 12:54 PM
My 9 year old daughter is one good shooting little lady. The last time at the range she could consistently put shots COM at 7 yards with everything I let her try (Ruger P95, Walther P99/.40, USP .45, Para 14.45, CZ 75BD, CZ 97B).

I agree that a 8 year old doesn't have the judgment to make the call on using a gun to defend others under most conditions but given the circumstances of THIS case (she was smart enough to recognize a threat, call for help and articulate that threat) if she had access to a weapon, it may have ended very differently.

Malone LaVeigh
December 31, 2002, 12:01 AM
I hope no one here thought I was proposing any new gun laws. We do not have a shortage of gun laws in this country. What we have is a mental health crisis. Damn too few resources directed toward identifying and intervening in tragedies-in-the-making like this, and too much in directions that makes us more crazy. Too much emphasis on materialism and success, and being the biggest bully on the block. That goes all the way from the street-corner gangsta to the pretzeldent.

I guess I'm just a bleeding-heart bliss ninny...

Edward429451
December 31, 2002, 12:45 AM
This hits kinda close to home for me as I am in C. Springs and work in Heating & Air Conditioning. I didn't know the guy, but do know an employee (ex?) of his. From what I've heard, the guy was not a nutcase but it does sound like he was pretty stressed from the bill collecters. Especially THE STATE OF COLORADO if my info was correct. They was threatening Leins and all that crap.

Business has dropped off in Colorado. Some blame it on 9-11, maybe. Unemployment is up. Me and two others got laid off on Dec 10th. I'm workin again thank the Lord.

You're funny, makin cracks on C. Springs way up in Minnesota, What'd you know?:rolleyes:

No we don't need more gunlaws. Also, how in the world could anyone preemptive strike a family member? You dont know the ballon went up until its too late. An 8 yr old may be able to shoot a stranger if threatening family members but to think an 8 yr old could handle shooting a family member pre-epmtivly is luducrous. (Wonder if Clint has a Junior class?)

If it makes you feel better my sons both have loaded guns in their rooms.:rolleyes:

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