It'll be a while before we can own them here again, but humor me, what are they like?
They look cool as hell, but how is the accuracy, reliability takedown, and fragility of the scope?
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December 28, 2002, 11:57 PM
I've fired the flat top version. This one was equiped with a compact ACOG so I can't speak to the integral optics, but suspect they are very sturdy.
I don't care for bull pups. A left handed person can't use it. It can't be fired around a left barricade. Mag replacement seemed clumsy to me, but that might have been inexperience. It has an odd trigger. The owner, who has 3 or 4, and many thousands of rounds down range, was able to what needed doing to ~200 yards.
I can do the same thing with an AR for 75% less money.
December 29, 2002, 01:40 AM
Cool guns, probably worthless as a true military weapon but cool looking and a blast to fire full auto.
Good for wolf hunting on snowmachine and impresses people at the range when you touch off 30 rounds in a second or so with a 14 inch barrel.
December 29, 2002, 01:44 AM
I will one day. ;)
December 29, 2002, 01:52 AM
I shot one on Massad Ayoob's LFI-3 course in New Hampshire in August 2002, in the full-auto component (:D ! :D ! :D ! 5,000 rounds downrange in half-an-hour... Daddy Like!!! :D ). Nice ergonomics, if you like bullpups. Reasonably accurate (typical milspec...) The integral scope was OK, and reasonably fast for target acquisition. The trigger was CRUMMY! Every M16/AR15 I've fired had a better trigger than this one... very creepy and stacking toward the end of the trigger stroke. I wouldn't buy one for myself.
December 29, 2002, 04:41 AM
I have fired several and really like how they shoot and feel. It just seems to fit me perfectly. The optics are great, the little donut helps pickup the target quickly. Accuracy isn't sub MOA, but that's not really what this rifle was made for.
There are a handfull of departments in the Phoenix area that are using them, as well as the Austrian, Irish and Australian Armies. From what I have heard, other than having a difficult time finding parts now that Steyr is kinda kaput, they are happy with them.
I came pretty close to buying a full-auto AUG a couple months ago. Unfortunatly my wallet convinced me otherwise. :(
For some good AUG info, check out this site: http://www.sig-550.com/boards/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php
December 29, 2002, 07:41 AM
Yep, and love it. Very user friendly and accurate IMO. Much prefer it to the SLR for ergonomic reasons but not many opportunities to shoot it.:)
December 29, 2002, 07:44 AM
I posted the following back in July and I can't say that my opinion has really changed at all.
From the archives of TFL -
As a Private in the Australian Army Reserve I've obvioulsy had quite a bit of experience with the Aug.
And despite the fact that I'm very proficient with it, despite KSFreeman's comments about bullpups, I'd never buy one especially if it was more expensive than an AR.
On its own its an alright 'assault rifle'. My problem with the Aug is that with a few minor adjustments it could be so much better.
Andrew Wyatt might find the 'donut of death' scope reticle to be 'neat', but I find it damned annoying. Especially when trying to conduct aimed shots on targets out to 200 and 300 yards. As there is no central point to the reticle you're basically guessing where the bullet will land at those distances.
Plus only having a 1.5x powered scope is a complete waste of time in my opinion. It should be 2x at least, but I'd prefer 3x.
Granted the AugA (A1?) model now has a picattiny rail, but those aren't in general service yet.
The barrels are to thin, and overheat quickly. Plus there have been occasions where someone bent the barrel of an Aug by hitting a hard surface while conducting bayonet drills. Great confidence booster there, not....
The cocking handle is far to weak, and can easily break if you're to rough with an Aug ( ie conducting an Army obstacle course ).
The lack of a proper trigger guard has caused many a ND by Australian soldiers. Add to that the fact that the drop safety feature is apparently not 100% reliable.
The forward hand grip might help control full-auto/burst fire, but due to the fact that it is slightly loose and wobbles, causes accuracy of aimed fire to be reduced.
A professional shooter I went through basic training with frequently got 3moa with the Aug, but not much better than that. However that may well be due to the fact that his rifle had been treated like ***** by army recruits for years on end.
So like I said with a few minor adjustments the Aug could be quite a damned good rifle (but still not the best), however adjustments equats to money which means there will be no improvement to the Aug's in service.
So basically, if your used to the Aug and have been trained on the Aug to the point where you know what it can and can't do, it will get the job done. But its not the best, and there are much better options out there.
December 29, 2002, 07:51 AM
" Yep, and love it. Very user friendly and accurate IMO. Much prefer it to the SLR for ergonomic reasons but not many opportunities to shoot it. "
geekay I take it you are serving/ have served in the Aus. Defence force?
" A left handed person can't use it. "
Well there are left handed versions...
December 29, 2002, 08:20 AM
G'day DEADMAN. Yep, CMF infantry '48> '59 and RAAF '70> '82 so didn't use the AUG (F88) in service. But because of a unique competition arrangement with a couple of regular army units have got it in my hot little hands a couple of times a year, including the AARA Tri Service shoots in our area. I have no doubt that I have fired it far in excess of the majority of serving members except those going in harms way, which you will know about.
I hope this doesn't read like a boast because it isn't, I don't see why I should let my hardearned (ha ha, paid to have fun) skills lapse just because my hair is grey and my skin is wrinkled. Shooting is STILL fun.
December 29, 2002, 11:13 PM
I liked it, but it is an expensive proposition in the US now.
December 29, 2002, 11:32 PM
..., but it is an expensive proposition in the US now
That it is.
IF you can find a Steyr USR, that might not that bad of an alternative.
December 29, 2002, 11:50 PM
Deadman is correct .
You could order a left handed bolt assembly and then simply remove the ejection port cover from the left side and put it on the right side port .
Could also order a 9mm conversion unit .
16" , 20" and 24"HB also .
We used to sell the AUG and acc way back when .
It's been awhile , but I seem to remember a simple crude iron sight on top of the optical sight .
I never liked it much . It just wasn't comfortable . I remember turning down a friend trying to sell his to me for $600 . 2 months later the ban of '89 hit and they were $2100 . Man !
December 29, 2002, 11:53 PM
The Customs guys come out to our range on a regular basis, and a few of them have AUGs.
More for the cool factor than anything else...I miss a proper trigger guard, and that "pull halfway for one shot, all the way for three round burst" trigger is rather silly. An M4 is a lot faster on target and has a far better trigger for accurate work, IMO.
Sure looks neat, though.
December 30, 2002, 12:38 AM
Augs are OK, good ones are reliable and malfunction free, poor ones aren't.
At the SOF world championship 3 gun match, there would be a rare stage where every AUG that fired that stage wouldn't malf at least once.
THe scope is not great, but not impossible to work around.
In summation, If AOL made a rifle, the AUG would be it. The AUG is easy to learn, overpriced, and even an intermiediate shooter has outgrown it.
December 30, 2002, 02:02 AM
Lots of fun.
Very controlable even in full-auto fire.
Definitely not a gun that you want to fire if you're left handed and the right-ejection is in place. I saw that happen to a guy at the range. He lost a couple of teeth.
December 30, 2002, 03:49 PM
Andy: "In summation, If AOL made a rifle, the AUG would be it. The AUG is easy to learn, overpriced, and even an intermiediate shooter has outgrown it."
LMAO :D That is a good one.
December 30, 2002, 03:55 PM
Sure, in both 9mm and .223. Fun, but all shooting is fun.
Don't favor bullpups or the AUG for a multitude of reasons. Some sound, some purely personal. YMMV.
December 31, 2002, 02:11 PM
and the AUG'S backup iron sights are a joke. They aren't even adjustable. It doesn't matter which bolt you have in it, you still can't fire from your weak side. All bull pups have this handicap. In addition, the handling qualities (if you can be generous enough to call them that) are so different from all other longarms that to be fast with it will take a lot of specialized practice.
December 31, 2002, 05:02 PM
It doesn't matter which bolt you have in it, you still can't fire from your weak side. All bull pups have this handicap.
How do you come up with that? Once you've got it ejecting to the other side there is no problem I'm aware of. Also, AFAIK the only bullpups that aren't capable of left side ejection are the SA80 and Bushy's M17.
December 31, 2002, 06:19 PM
Triad I think that okeydoke is refering to the fact that if you have a right handed version and swap it over to your left shoulder the ejection port will be sitting near your chin. And vise versa for the left handed versions.
You could swap the ejection port cover from the left to the right side of the shoulder stock to compensate for it, but thats not exactly something you're going to have a lot of time to do in a firefight.
December 31, 2002, 06:57 PM
I've shot 'em before.
The one I shot a few months ago was over $2500.
They handle nice and I could weild it around as easy as an M4 but It just doesn't seem like a Military gun.
They make me think of LASER TAG.
Remember the optics on Laser Tag guns???? The little tube optics with the red dot inside.
December 31, 2002, 07:02 PM
Tried one in Austria once. With the short barrel, it is well suited as a gendarmerie weapon you might see at airports, border crossings etc. Didn't like the 1.5x optic either. Rather have an Eotech or a big ghost ring/front blade like the MP5s. But I think the bullpup, done right, makes sense if you want troops to have a short weapon. Better than the 14.5" bbl on the m4 which robs velocity.
The new Israeli Tavor may be what the Aug wanted to be--compact, versatile, yet reliable.