Seecamp vs. Kel-Tec P32


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December 29, 2002, 01:36 AM
I looked at both. I bought the P32. The Seecamp looks like a gun you'd have while wearing a tux. I like the P32 because it looks and fires like a charm. Small, reliable and easy to carry. Did I mention the frame comes in several colors.

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Blackhawk
December 29, 2002, 01:41 AM
IFIRC, the Seecamp doesn't lock the slide open after the last round except by jamming on the last casing, and it doesn't have an ejector, plus it's a blowback.

Tux or not, all my mousers must have slide locks, ejectors, and be locked breech, all of which the P-32 has. :D

The P-32 is also MUCH lighter, and cheaper to boot!

gewehr44
December 29, 2002, 05:22 AM
The Seecamp appears to be a high quality, well crafted piece. My major problem with it is the bottom magazine release. I'm sure you could practice enough to make it 2nd nature, but I'm used to thumb style mag releases. If the slide doesn't lock back as mentioned, that would also be a detriment, IMO. Light weight & slimness were key in my decision to go with the P32.

Kevinch
December 29, 2002, 09:39 AM
I also have a P32 am am happy with it.

The SEECAMP is attractive, as it is an all stainless steel pistol. But I've read it can be tempermental. Ammo selection is critical as it is designed for Winchester Silvertips only; since its introduction other ammo has become available that should work but the overall length of the cartridge must be considered carefully as many will be too long to fit in the mag. Even using correct ammo, the gun has a reputation for stove piping the last round.

Then there is price & availability; high & limited. I've seen these little guns advertised for well north of the $500 mark.

I bought my KelTec for $175 used, & it has been flawless. It carries an extra round over the Seecamp, is half the weigh, & reportedly has trigger pull that is over 3lbs lighter.

Easy choice as far as I'm concerned!

Kentucky Rifle
December 29, 2002, 12:45 PM
Stove piping the last round?? Are you sure you're not thinking of the NAA Guardian? I have several pocket pistols. The all have different advantages, however my Seecamp has never stove piped! (My Guardian has.) I consider Larry Seecamp a friend. We speak about once a month. I thought I was having a problem with Silvertips "keyholing". (They wern't. It was the cardboard backing behind the target. The paper target tore and LOOKED something like a keyhole when the bullet struck and tore the paper a little.) Anyway, he told me to try Gold Dots. As I like GD's better than ST's anyway, and they worked perfectly, I used them up until I switched over to RBCD's in just about everything I shoot.
I like my Seecamp the best of all my pocket pistols. My Guardian is beautiful too, with it's smooth Hogue "Pau Ferro" grips. I think I've made my P-32 really nice with a hard chrome top, gray grip frame, and silver trigger shoe. It goes with me a lot! However, even though I've never experienced a "rim lock", I've read so much about that nasty little phenomenon that I carry only Fiocchi 73gr. FMJ's in that one! Mr. Murphy's law and all that.

KR

JMax
December 29, 2002, 03:25 PM
Good choice. I like the P32 as well. My wife sometimes lets me borrow hers. Might be time to get one myself.

JMax

yzguy
December 29, 2002, 03:31 PM
love my P-32...

also info on rimlock that anyone carrying any .32acp that can take FMJ and HP's should read:
http://www.1bad69.com/keltec/rimlock.htm

guy sajer
December 29, 2002, 04:15 PM
We sell quite a few P-32's . Overall it's proven to be a great little gun . Reliable and accurate . The locked breech design allows for light recoil and good control .

We have only experienced one flaw that I can remember and it has also occured in the P-11 . The trigger bar becomes disconnected from the hammer . You pull the trigger and the hammer doesn't move . It's not a consistent defect but it is one that has happened more than a couple times . Kel Tec has always promptly corrected them .

As a close range weapon , I don't really feel inconvenienced by the lack of a slide stop or thumb activated mag release . I'm somewhat comforted by the heel type release knowing that the mag isn't going to come out in my pocket during carry . I can see the advantages of these features for range use though . But , if you fire your six in defense and the threat isn't neutralized , I recommend you come out swinging . JMO

I have carried an LWS-32 for about 7 years and it has never failed to function properly in about 400 rds . The well proven original Winchester load is fine and has given me no reason to look further .

If the P-32 was available back then , I would have probably tried it . Even at the $325 wholesale I paid back then for the LWS , the Kel Tec is a great buy well worth a long look . I would have a tough time with the $600 - $800 the scalpers were getting just a few years back .

Mitch
www.oldeenglishoutfitters.com

NEon
December 29, 2002, 07:36 PM
Originally posted by Kentucky Rifle
Stove piping the last round?? Are you sure you're not thinking of the NAA Guardian? I have several pocket pistols. The all have different advantages, however my Seecamp has never stove piped! (My Guardian has.) I consider Larry Seecamp a friend. We speak about once a month. I thought I was having a problem with Silvertips "keyholing". (They wern't. It was the cardboard backing behind the target. The paper target tore and LOOKED something like a keyhole when the bullet struck and tore the paper a little.) Anyway, he told me to try Gold Dots. As I like GD's better than ST's anyway, and they worked perfectly, I used them up until I switched over to RBCD's in just about everything I shoot.
I like my Seecamp the best of all my pocket pistols. My Guardian is beautiful too, with it's smooth Hogue "Pau Ferro" grips. I think I've made my P-32 really nice with a hard chrome top, gray grip frame, and silver trigger shoe. It goes with me a lot! However, even though I've never experienced a "rim lock", I've read so much about that nasty little phenomenon that I carry only Fiocchi 73gr. FMJ's in that one! Mr. Murphy's law and all that.

KR

I'm with you on this. Am now waiting for the 380!

Blackhawk
December 29, 2002, 07:43 PM
Stove piping the last round?? Are you sure you're not thinking of the NAA Guardian? KR, I could be. Does the Seecamp have an ejector? Seems like the one that depended on stovepiping didn't.

Kevinch
December 29, 2002, 09:42 PM
Stove piping the last round?? Are you sure you're not thinking of the NAA Guardian?
Nope - I'm thinking of the Seecamp. But I don't have one, so I can't speak from any personal experience.

A quick search for the Seecamp over at HANDGUN REVIEW (http://www.handgunreview.com) brought up this owner comment:
The problem is my Seecamp (and others I've talked to) is the stove-piping on the last round is the clip.This occurs about 30% of the time on the last round, even with different clips

But there are only 2 reviews there, so who knows?

Gary A
December 30, 2002, 01:04 AM
I used to have a Seecamp .32 and it did often stovepipe on the last round and for the same reason the little Guardian often does so: neither has an ejector, relying on the next round in the magazine to push the empty out. No next round in magazine, no push. I never considered it a big deal and apparently neither does Larry Seecamp or NAA. It certainly would seem prudent to have a spare magazine with either pistol but it seems that if one were ever in a situation requiring a fast reload of either, well...that would probably qualify as having a fairly bad day.

emann
December 30, 2002, 01:11 AM
That Seecamp better be a lot better for the difference in price between the two or I'd go with the Kel-Tec.

Kahr carrier
December 30, 2002, 07:22 AM
I like them both ,but I like the 380 Guardian better.;)

Bainx
December 30, 2002, 11:45 AM
When comparing Seecamp and P32, I tell folks it is like Beta and VHS video.
Beta really was better but, the world followed VHS.
Seecamp stepped on their dinky when they made you get on a 9 month waiting list to have the "priviledge" to buy one of their guns. Meanwhile, the world followed the P32.

I wonder what the ownership ratio of P32 to Seecamp is?
Gotta be at least 500 to 1.

shooter.45
December 30, 2002, 01:34 PM
I have a Keltec P32 and love it. I have not had one problem with it and also is very light.

Ledbetter
December 30, 2002, 02:40 PM
I note that Guy Sajer has apparently put only 400 rounds through his Seacamp in the last seven years. I have shot my P32 a lot more than that in the two years I've owned it. Since the factory rebarrelled it for free, it shoots exactly to point of aim and is 99.99% reliable with ball or JHP.

I have heard that the life expectancy of the Seacamp is well under 10,000 rounds. For this reason, I would never buy a used one. Any owners care to comment on this? I expect much longer service from my P32.

Beren
December 30, 2002, 02:47 PM
Does anyone else have a problem with short-stroking the trigger of their P32? I notice that mine will /feel/ like the trigger has reset about halfway, but if I try to pull it back at that point, it just goes 'click' without dropping the hammer.

If I let the trigger go the whole way to the front and then pull back, bang, everything's fine.

alamo
December 30, 2002, 03:23 PM
Ledbetter,

I've never heard of any life expectancy issues with the Seecamp .32 but sometimes that is confused with the Seecamp .380 which is finally supposed to be coming out in a month or so. I read in a gun magazine article 3 years ago that Larry Seecamp says it will have an expected life of 1,000 rounds.

NJ3
December 30, 2002, 03:49 PM
Originally posted by alamo
Ledbetter,

I've never heard of any life expectancy issues with the Seecamp .32 but sometimes that is confused with the Seecamp .380 which is finally supposed to be coming out in a month or so. I read in a gun magazine article 3 years ago that Larry Seecamp says it will have an expected life of 1,000 rounds.

Only 1000 rds. :eek: For a pistol that cost around $895. Double :eek: :eek:

clange
December 30, 2002, 04:43 PM
I bought a used P32 that i thought was new. The damn thing had more FTE then it extracted. Sent it to kel-tec and they had it back to me in 5 days. Everything but the magazine and frame was new. Shot about 75 rounds through it and had one FTE. I need to shoot it more but once its broken in i think it will be fine. With its light weight, small size, and low recoil i think its a great pistol.

guy sajer
December 30, 2002, 05:17 PM
I guess we all have our own plan .
I didn't buy my LWS as a range hose . I wanted the ultimate in concealability and reliability . It works for me . I shoot a few rounds every year to reassure myself of this . In a Galco front pocket holster it melts away .
As an every day range gun , I prefer something a little more substancial and more suited for target practice . Whether it be a vintage Colt Shooting Master , Novak Browning Hi Power , LBC Premier II or whatever I'm in the mood for .
If I want to fire many rounds in short order , I drag out the Thompson SMG or Colt M16 in .223 or with the most fun .22 LR conversion .

Whichever he decides , he'll be getting a good gun .

Enjoy !

cratz2
December 30, 2002, 06:04 PM
The Seecamp is a very nice physically high quality little piece. More of a piece of art than a usable firearm. Compared to the P32, the Seecamp seems to weigh about one metric ton. It would be possible to forget the P32 was in your back pocket. I doubt that has ever happened with the Seecamp. ;)

Ledbetter
December 30, 2002, 06:26 PM
The P32 certainly is no "range hose." But a gun's life expectancy shouldn't be the subject of speculation, if you are going to trust your life to it.

gino
December 30, 2002, 09:52 PM
How about a different opinion? ;) I just can't seem to like the P32. Maybe it's gun snobbery, but the P32 just isn't built well enough for me to trust with my life. Lots of peoople posting about P32s breaking. You just don't hear many stories about Guardians and Seecamps breaking.

FWIW, I've got a Guardian and Seecamp, both of which are truely well-made guns.

alamo
December 30, 2002, 11:51 PM
I don't know about that, I've read plenty of stories about Guardians going back to the factory and reports of excellent NAA customer service just like KT. I don't know how many Guardians have been produced but KT has now made 100,000 P-32s in just 3 years. With that many out there, there will be more reports of some needing service.

I had a Seecamp that was unreliable & had many problems. Not knocking it though, it is a great gun but not all are 100% just like any other. I think some people think the P-32 is "cheap" because it is mostly polymer and doesn't feel as "solid" as an all steel Guardian or Seecamp. I've got 2 Autauga .32s which are great little guns as well.

guy sajer
December 31, 2002, 12:06 AM
I guess it's a matter of interpretation . 10,000 rounds is a whole lot of rounds from a belly gun whether it be a Smith Chief .38 or a 10oz .32 pistol .

I see that you are in Indiana cratz2 . I'm in Ohio just north of Dayton . Please feel free to stop in our gun shop ( I'm sincere on this) and drop my Seecamp in your front pocket . You will be surprised . It disappears .


Mitch

www.oldeenglishoutfitters.com

GeorgeH
December 31, 2002, 01:25 AM
I own 3 Seecamps. One 25ACP and two 32ACP. I also own a Guardian 380 and a Guardian 32.

The Seecamp's are a jewel. They have no life expectancy. The 380 will need new recoil springs after 1000 and the gun will wear out, but it will take more than 3,000 rounds to do it.

Overall, I think the NAA products are superior. I carry the G380 every day in a Ron Graham rear pocket holster.

As to Seecamps and ammo. If your Seecamp has a SN in excess of 30,500 then it can use virtually everything except FMJ or Federal hollowpoints. If the SN is under 30,500 then it is recommended that you feed it Silvertips.

mini14jac
December 31, 2002, 10:32 AM
When I heard about the Seecamp years ago, I wanted one.
Couldn't find one.
Then, I saw a used one for $500.
No thanks.

I got a Guardian. Lousy trigger, too heavy, reliability problems, ammo sensitive.
Gone.

Now we've got two P32s. :D
I don't carry mine as often, since I got a PM9, but if I'm just tooling around in my Speedos, sandals, and black socks, then I'm packing my P32. :D

Oleg Volk
December 31, 2002, 01:05 PM
Just bought my third P32. First two gifted to close friends. Third one proved 100% reliable (only put about 90 rounds through it so far tough), fit and finish are better than earlier examples and accuracy is decent (3" at 10m). Nice backup.

yzguy
December 31, 2002, 03:11 PM
Lots of peoople posting about P32s breaking. You just don't hear many stories about Guardians and Seecamps breaking.

I have not gone looking for stories of Guardians and Seecamps breaking, but have still heard them. True I have heard more from the P-32's but that is probably due to the fact that I visit the http:\\www.ktog.com board a lot and not a Guardian or Seecamp board, and also probably because (I'm pretty sure) that there are more P-32's out there than the other 2, so the % of failures is the important part not just the number...

BHP9
December 31, 2002, 05:20 PM
I have a .32 seecamp and it functions with both silvertips and with reloads using hornady hollow points and red dot powder. I will have to check the serial no. today. The weapon has never failed to fire or feed or eject. It is first class old fashion high quality all the way. True, it is a bit heavier than a plastic pistol but it bothers me not a wit.

Although I do not like double action only pistols and it may seem strange to all that I chose to buy and carry this weapon, it was chosen for quality, reliability and rust resistance and safety of carry. Since it fullfills all those functions I give it a big thumbs up.

Joe Demko
December 31, 2002, 05:40 PM
P-32 was a waste of money. Couple trips back to KT. Additonal money to get the chromed barrel and slide, which were supposedly going to correct some of the reliablility issues (but didn't). It was cheap to start, but the additional expenditures have made it considerably less of a "bargain." I'd have been better served to spend the money on ammo for one of my other guns. My P-32 isn't the only one, either. I have 1st hand experience with 2 more that were junk as well.

Blackhawk
January 1, 2003, 05:43 PM
Golgo,

Not to worry.

I'll buy all your junk Kel Tecs for junk prices.

I've never heard anybody claim that the $20 hard chrome option had anything to do with reliability. Who told you that? :D

cratz2
January 1, 2003, 09:24 PM
Thanks for the offer, Mitch, but I'll pass for now. Would like to stop by your shop sometime though. Knowing your predeliction to 1911s, I'm sure your shop would be right up my alley, if my alley was in Ohio... And I certainly didn't mean it as a slight against the Seecamp - more of a weight comparison. Without regards to which 32 is prefered, the P32 is still MUCH lighter than the very finely built Seecamp or Guardian.

As with Oleg, I've bought two others as gifts for family once they saw mine and felt compelled to put 200 rounds through each of them. In 600 rounds of ball ammo in my own P32 and the 200 each through the other two, I've never had a failure of any kind. I've also put roughly 50 rounds each of Gold Dots and Silvertips with no failures.

My major complaint with the P32 is the plastic trigger. I would much prefer a metal trigger and that would probably go a long way to improving its preceived quality with 'gun snobs' such as myself.

And for the record, I wonder how many people have actually put 10,000 rounds through their Seecamp. Anyone that puts 10,000 rounds through a very small handgun in a few years is involved enough in guns to easily and willingly replace a gun with 10,000 rounds through it.

Big Al
January 1, 2003, 10:05 PM
My vote goes for the P32.

tatters
January 1, 2003, 11:58 PM
I chose the P-32 when I wanted a tiny gun. My trigger bar disconnected, and I sent it back to KelTec. They fixed it in a flash.

One of my customers bought consecutive serial numbered Seecamps and waited 2 years to get them.

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