"Engagement Ring" by Jones Bros. Knives


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Kentucky Rifle
February 20, 2003, 12:46 PM
Post deleted. I thought it was a neat little item. Since this is the "Non-Firearms" section, I thought I'd mention the ring.

KR

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D.W. Drang
February 20, 2003, 01:26 PM
And where a pocket knife will be confiscated, this will get you arrested...

Joe Demko
February 20, 2003, 02:07 PM
Sounds like it is capable of nearly inflicting superficial wounds, in addition to getting you arrested. How is this thing notably superior to, say, a high school class ring in a real fight? Thugs have been wearing big rings for decades. Hope you didn't get boned too badly on what you paid for this one.

CWL
February 20, 2003, 10:11 PM
I thought that these kind of rings were supposed to be worn 'rough side in' to give you an edge when using grappling techniques? -they weren't meant to be used as knuckledusters.

I go with Golgo-13, if you want to beat on someone without additional weapons-related charges, a class ring or similiar would stand out less. I've seen some permanent disfigurement created by real jewelry.

kannonfyre
February 20, 2003, 10:49 PM
Of late, there have been knives and other weapons constructed of ballistic nylon. Why don't you consider these?

I would recommend a ballistic nylon fibre kobutan if you are afraid of being unarmed while flying. If questioned by airport security, you can just tell them that it's only a plastic keychain.

I flew from an Asian country to the Philipines recently and the airport police didn't bat an eyelid when they saw my "keychain" together with my housekeys.

Gray_Fallen
February 21, 2003, 02:36 AM
Of late, there have been knives and other weapons constructed of ballistic nylon. Why don't you consider these?

I would recommend a ballistic nylon fibre kobutan if you are afraid of being unarmed while flying. If questioned by airport security, you can just tell them that it's only a plastic keychain.

I flew from an Asian country to the Philipines recently and the airport police didn't bat an eyelid when they saw my "keychain" together with my housekeys.

Because US Airport security guards are jumpy, and arent likely to buy that "key-chain" thing.
And, if you get caught with a non-metallic knife, you really are going to go to jail.
Zytel or glass particle injected nylon doesnt make a great knife anyway.

Before you knock a ring... try it.
I like them... they arent going to put someone on the ground with one whack, like a gun, but they are a tool and an effective one at that.
I have a ring made from Carbon Fiber, by knife-maker Eric Blair, that I absolutely love. It would hurt to get punched with it, sure, but as a grappling tool, its wicked, it hurts, it digs into flesh, it could do some shallow tearing of flesh, and definately is capable of some nasty pressure damage.
For punching, I'd rather have a couple heavy duty Gothic type rings, sterling silver, big skulls and stuff on 'em. But as a stealthy, yet oddly pretty, weapon, the carbon fiber ring is great.

I'd really like one of those Jones Bro's rings... they look sweet to me.

Dont forget, Japanese fighting rings have been around for a lOONG time, and the classic design, isnt much different from that of the Jones Bro's ring.

Rings are cool things. :)

kannonfyre
February 21, 2003, 03:23 AM
Well I guess I'd just have to reply on my boxing and CQC lessons if I ever fly to America........:uhoh:

Don Gwinn
February 22, 2003, 09:56 AM
Interesting. I don't remember all the negativity when Kaylee posted about exactly the same weapon. To answer a few of the questions:
Both the "Engagement Ring" and the "Bat Ring" are sharper than any class ring and will therefore cause cuts larger than a class ring most of the time. Not to mention the fact that class rings are big funky pimp-style rings and not everyone wants to wear one.

No, wearing that ring will not get you arrested. Who told you that? Not in Illinois, anyway, and we're about as restricted as it gets. You can be arrested for carrying a stick, but not for wearing that ring.

CWL, that is one use for them. It would depend on what you intend to do, I suppose. If you know you're a boxer, you'll turn it out. If you know you're a grappler, you'll turn it in.

G. Gordon Liddy tells a story about fighting rings. When he was at (I think) the D.C. jail, he was cut by a guy wearing a ring. He asked about it and was told that everyone had a "fighting ring" specially made to have sharp, jagged corners. He was told where to buy the ring and had to go down into a lower area during some free time to buy a ring from a guy who sold them like a jeweler--on a board covered with velvet, no less. He chose the one he liked, which was made of aluminum, and from then on wore it every day. He fought with it several times and won, and when he left that facility he passed it out to his wife.
Mrs. Liddy was at that time a school teacher in the D.C. area and she was having some trouble with some students who were bigger than she was. According to Liddy, she put that ring on and wore it to school one day, and all her problems improved noticeably. Most of the kids in her classes had family members who'd been to the D.C. jail for extended periods and they all recognized a "D.C. Jail Fighting Ring" when they saw one. Maybe they thought she was connected.
Anyway, he says that when he got out of prison and got his debts paid off, he had a gold version of that fighting ring custom-made and still wears it with evening wear. :evil:

Wilhelm
February 22, 2003, 10:39 AM
I'd like to see what this ring looks like. Is there a webisite or a pic some where?




Wilhelm

Harbinger
February 22, 2003, 01:21 PM
I think this is the one they're talking about:

donrearic.com/engage.html

D.W. Drang
February 24, 2003, 03:04 AM
No, wearing that ring will not get you arrested. Who told you that? My bad.
The original post was already deleted when I read it--fast work!--and I thought it was referring to something with a knife blade on it. These do exist, and would probably result in at least the "knife ring" being confiscated and Officer Friendly filing an official report...

Joe Demko
February 24, 2003, 07:56 AM
Will it get you arrested? Possibly not. Will it get you hassled by a cop who has an idea what it is? "Fighting rings" are hardly top secret. Prison guards know about them. Cops know about them. Parole officers know about them. Club security people know about them. Low-life know about them. Even the good, law-abiding members of THR know about them. Wearing such an item is a great way to have an even marginally observant cop mentally label you as a "mook" and treat you accordingly.

Kentucky Rifle
February 24, 2003, 08:16 AM
Harbinger: My ring looks nothing like your picture. It's a much more sedate, less scary type of ring.

Golgo: Look. Give it a rest, will you? I took the damn post off, and I even "logged off" The High Road due to "experts" like you.

KR

brownie0486
February 24, 2003, 09:15 AM
Since when is the act of carrying a stick illegal anywhere?

A stick can be picked up off the ground by any child. The mere act of possesion of a stick would never be cause for an arrest in the US.

Menacing someone with a stick would be a chargeable offense as would making contact with one on a BG where you go beyond a reasonable response to a threat.

Don Gwinn: Please give me the statute which restricts a stick from your possesing same in Ill. I'd be very interested in exactly what, if any, restrictions are placed on a stick in that state.

If that were true that the simple possession of a stick was chargeable, any kid playing who picked one up, or an adult clearing brush from his backyard could be charged if he were to pick one up.

I don't believe you will find that the simple act of possesion is chargeable and breaks any statutes but again please cite the statute if there is one.

This will become very interesting if they are restricted from possesion.

Brownie

Don Gwinn
February 24, 2003, 12:30 PM
I don't blame you a bit. I wouldn't believe it either.


(720 ILCS 5/)

ARTICLE 24. DEADLY WEAPONS (720 ILCS 5/24-1) Sec. 24-1. Unlawful Use of Weapons . (a) A person commits the offense of unlawful use of weapons when he knowingly: (1) Sells, manufactures, purchases, possesses or carries any bludgeon, black-jack, slung-shot, sand-club , sand-bag, metal knuckles, throwing star, or any knife, commonly referred to as a switchblade knife, which has a blade that opens automatically by hand pressure applied to a button, spring or other device in the handle of the knife, or a ballistic knife, which is a device that propels a knifelike blade as a projectile by means of a coil spring, elastic material or compressed gas; or (2) Carries or possesses with intent to use the same unlawfully against another, a dagger, dirk, billy, dangerous knife, razor, stiletto, broken bottle or other piece of glass, stun gun or taser or any other dangerous or deadly weapon or instrument of like character;

You'll notice that the second section, the one containing the word "billy," specifies intent to harm someone. I've carried a knife most consider "illegal" under that statute for years now, and if I'm ever charged I intend to cite that provision and argue that to ignore it would make a criminal out of anyone who has ever broken a glass bottle or cleaned up a broken window in public. However, the word "bludgeon" at top is not defined anywhere in the statute. Since the clear intent is to ban as many kinds of clubs as they possibly can, it's not a big leap to assume that one could easily be prosecuted for carrying a simple stick or a piece of dowel. You may not want to believe that the law would be applied that way, but you can certainly see that the potential is there. Frankly, a prosecutor who argued that the law bans a "bludgeon" and the stick you had in your hand is well-suited for bludgeoning would be speaking the truth. When I say "stick" I generally mean a dowel or escrima-style straight stick, but I don't think it would be a big leap to believe that if a cop really wanted to get for something and you carried a fallen tree branch in public he could at least arrest you under this statute. You might not go to trial--but if you're the kind of person who makes trouble for your local government in some way, you probably would. This is Illinois, remember.Link to 720 ILCS 5/24-1 (http://www.legis.state.il.us/search/oop/qfullhit.htw?CiWebHitsFile=%2Flegislation%2Filcs%2Fch720%2Fch720act5articles%2Fch720act5sub40%2Ehtm&CiHiLiteType=Full&CiRestriction=%28%23filename+%2A%2E%2A%29+AND+%28NOT+%23vpath+%2A%5C%5Fvti%2A%29++++++++++AND+%28NOT+%23vpath+%2A%5Ccgi%2Dbin%2A%29+AND+%28NOT+%23vpath+%2A%5CIISOrigBackup%2A%29+AND+%28NOT+%23vpath+%2A%5Cscripts%2A%29+AND+%28NOT+%23vpath+%2A%5C%5Fprivate%2A%29+AND+%28club+weapon%29&CiBeginHilite=%3Cfont+color%3D%23FF0000%3E%3Cem%3E&CiEndHilite=%3C%2Fem%3E%3C%2Ffont%3E#CiTag0)

brownie0486
February 24, 2003, 01:02 PM
The term Billy in the statutes of various states across the country came about due to the cops carrying the "billy club"

A Billy is well recognized and would not be construed the same as a stick [ wooden dowel, escrima, bamboo, etc.] Billys have a very distinctive shape. Yes, it's semantics but one can prove a stick is not a "billy" fairly easily at trial.

A bludgeon would not be a stick per se. A bludgeon doesn't even exist in the real world.

The definition of a bludgeon is " a short, heavy club, usually of wood, that has one end loaded or thicker than the other" according to the American Heritage dictionary.

The definition of a "billy" is "a billy club"
The definition of a billy club is "a short wooden club esp. a policemans club"

What Ill. lawmakeers are attempting here in this statute is to restrict the police billy clubs taken away from the police years ago as well, so no more weighted saps, billy's, etc even for these guys.

As to a bludgeoning device, at no time could a "stick" made from a dowel or bambo be considered a short heavy club and the description of thicker at one end and "loaded" [ usually they were loaded with lead ] and as well the stick would not meet the criteria of "loaded" ot thicker on one end.

What is clear is that they don't want civilians carrying a billy the cops are no longer allowed to carry as well.

You would be good to go carrying a Kali, Escrima, or dowel.

Brownie

Don Gwinn
February 24, 2003, 04:57 PM
If you say so, sir, then you say so. I don't believe for a second that Illinois law is quite so literal as that. I don't know if you're from Illinois, but you'd just about have to be to understand what I mean. There's the law and then there's the way it works.

bad_dad_brad
February 24, 2003, 08:58 PM
Ditto Don Gwinn,

I live in Hellinois as well, and although I enjoy buying and playing with the newest rage in mechanically assisted folding knives, I hesitate to carry one. You are just asking for the judge to decide if it is a switchblade or not. What the heck is a dirk anyway? It is a dagger.

By the way, I just bought a SOG Flash 1, clipped it to my pocket, sat down, and the little sucker opened up, scratched my leg, I reached in my pocket and it cut the heck out of my right thumb. That is one sharp knife. I bled for an hour.

Somehow, it seems redundant, to have an automatic knife like the SOG and have to keep the safety on. Beware, this is a dangerous device and you must safety it before putting it in your pocket.

I think I will start a separate thread about this.

brownie0486
February 25, 2003, 09:26 AM
You "beat" someone to death with a stick.
You "bludgeon" someone to death with a club.

Ill. dangerous weapons laws mention nothing about carrying a stick. They talk bludgeon and billy in the statute which have both been defined in our society and are long accepted terms.

The stick [ a dowel, bamboo excrima, etc ] does not meet the criteria as set forth in the statute as it is written and is in no way restricted from possession as the other two items specifically mentioned in that state law.

If the "stick" was illegal, the cops would not be carrying their "baton" [ which are sticks ] as they would be illegal in doing so.

If you are not aware, let me explain, the cops are not exempted from their states statutes at any time. They are mandated to obey all the laws as is an everyday citizen of that state.

Some believe the cops are exempted from some of the more restrictive dangerous weapons statutes but that is certainly not the case. Do other cops overlook their breathren in this matter? Sure they do, but it doesn't make them right or legal either.

As a 9 year LE officer and defensive weapons instructor I saw many officers believe incorrectly they could carry an auto folder and of course they were not exempt from the statutes anymore than the citizens they serve.

If you want to carry a stick, I would not be hesitant in Ill. based on the statutes wording you presented here in this thread.

Yes cops can be aggressive and interpret the law as they see fit at the time. However, if you were to have your "stick" taken away for no other reason than "possession" of same and no other charges were filed you would be on terra firma in gettign your property back from them at the station.

Let me give you a small scenario which has occured to me on the street. Working undercover sitting in a vehicle for hours, a cruiser pulls up and questions me about my sitting there as neighbors called on a suspicious car [ mine ].

Showed the PI creds, stepped out fo the vehicle when asked. He saw the clipped knife on my pocket, wanted to see it , and confiscated it as "illegal". Drove directly to the chief in that town, showed him the dangerous weapons statute and had the officer return to the station with my knife.

As an aside----If the cops take something from you [ personal property ] claiming it is illegal to posses and it is not, they have stolen your property and can be charged accordingly.

The cop didn't want to give back my 300.00 folder until I was about to call the state police to have him charged with felony theft of personal property as the knife was legal to posses in my state. The cop didn't know the law. I did, as I teach it. I did not argue with the officer on the road but instead went to the chief of police.

BTW--The chief was busy and could not see me until I told his secretary that one of his officers just stole my personal property. He had all the time in the world at that point.

Know the law, keep a copy of the statute which pertain to the instruments you may be carrying. I now carry the statute in the glove box to educate the officers on the street if they are unfamiliar or misinformed about what is and what is not legal to possess in my state relative dangerous weapons.

Brownie

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