Options for NYC

[Trempel]

Now I know that CCW in NYC is pretty much out of the question, but does someone know what other options a person has in New York City? OC spray, knives or stun guns? Any extra restrictions for when the person is on the subway, or other public transport?

[Bridger]

Hi, I spend a lot of time in NYC, going to school at Hunter College.

OC/CS spray was illegal for a while, but I was told by a police officer when I went to John Jay College of Criminal Justice, that it was recently legal. I might have misconstrued what he said though, since I didn't carry any spray then.

Knives, folders with blades under 4 inches are fine.

For what it's worth, I carry some OC/CS and a CRKT-m16 folder. The OC/CS might or might not be legal, I just want to be able to defend myself.

No extra security or anything for subways, like metal detectors or anything, that would slow too many people down!

I think they are looking for bombers and suspicious people more than a pocket knife.

I only ride the MTA busses and subways though, don't know about some of the other busses.

[Erich]

All those concrete sidewalks make my bum hip flare up. Good thing I have a Canemasters Gentleman's Triple-Grip Cane! :D

[Jeff Timm]

Simple, if you are a multi-millionaire, you just call up the NYPD grease the right palms and they'll hand delivery a Carry permit to you.

If you're not, nobody cares if you live or die.

Geoff
Who will not go to New York City. :fire:

[Ohen Cepel]

Best option:

Don't go the the d*#n place!

Take your money somewhere else.

[dshimm]

I agree with the avoidance strategy, though, of course, sometimes this is not possible. However, as I've aged and become more cranky with regard to RKBA, I tend to avoid modes of transportation and destinations that are not CCW-friendly.

[Trempel]

I agree with avoiding that city like the plague, but it's not for me. My girlfriend's sister and her fiancee just moved there (Brooklyn), because he's attending NYU dental school. So, it's not like they have a choice.

[Chief_Wiggum]

I've lived in NYC for the past 2 years now. As far as I know, OC spray is still illegal.

Don't ask LEOs what you can and can't carry, most of them don't know.

Knives _under_ 4", fixed of folding, are legal, but they must be completely concealed. No automatics, double edges, bali's, or gravity knives.

No restrictions on the subway.

[Zrex]

Concealed means concealed. ;)

[Matthew Temkin]

Knives under 4 inches are ok, as is Mace/Pepperspray.
Nothing else.
Then again,crime in NYC is not as bad as some make it out to be.
Even though I am entitled to carry a gun, I rarely do so off the job.

[Tracy Hightower]

If it is too dangerous to go there without a weapon, It is too dangerous to go there with a weapon.

Just food for thought.

[Tracy Hightower]

Knives under 4 inches are ok

Matthew,

Is that the same four inches we all use or the NYC width of the cops four fingers four inches? :)

[Matthew Temkin]

The law state 4 inches, but in my C.O. days I took many a knife off punks with the 4 finger rule...actually 4 cocked thumbs.
I recall one beautiful, engraved Buck 110 folder that one of my partners wanted to take off a well dressed gent, only because he really wanted the knife for himself.
But the gent was no crook and stood up to my bud and demanded that we properly measure it, which I did.
Outcome...3 and 3/8"---which made the very expensive knife totally legit and it went home with it's rightful owner.
Score one for true justice.

[carpettbaggerr]

Pepper-spray's legal:

Article 265, Penal law:S 265.20 Exemptions. (http://www.billstclair.com/ny-firearms-crimes.html)

14. Possession in accordance with the provisions of this paragraph of
a self-defense spray device as defined herein for the protection of a
person or property and use of such self-defense spray device under
circumstances which would justify the use of physical force pursuant to
article thirty-five of this chapter.
(a) As used in this section "self-defense spray device" shall mean a
pocket sized spray device which contains and releases a chemical or
organic substance which is intended to produce temporary physical
discomfort or disability through being vaporized or otherwise dispensed
in the air or any like device containing tear gas, pepper or similar
disabling agent.
(b) The exemption under this paragraph shall not apply to a person
who:
(i) is less than eighteen years of age; or
(ii) has been previously convicted in this state of a felony or any
assault; or
(iii) has been convicted of a crime outside the state of New York
which if committed in New York would constitute a felony or any assault
crime.

Don't see a blade size in the statutes, just a reference to a 'dangerous knife' with no definition. Anybody know exactly where to look? Legalese is giving me a headache.:uhoh:

[tyme]

Tracy,
If it is too dangerous to go there without a weapon, It is too dangerous to go there with a weapon.

Just food for thought.
Is it the danger everyone's worried about, or the principle of the thing? It also depends greatly on where in NYC you happen to go. Just because it's not too dangerous to go there without a weapon doesn't mean it's okay to go there without a weapon.

After all, by your rationale, any place worth going is safe to go to unarmed.

[Oleg Volk]

Do rules on knives differ for citizens/aliens and non-resident aliens? A friend is studying at NYU, so I'd like to know what options she has (legal weapons, training in their use).

[ctdonath]

carpettbaggerr, don't confuse NYC with NYS.

[carpettbaggerr]

Yeah, I know. Somehow, though, I'd always thought it was a state law which restricted blade length to 4 inches. But looking through the actual statutes, it seems there are no length restrictions. Learn something new every day, don't you. :)

[ctdonath]

NYC has a 4" limit (don't have the statute handy, but did a vigorous multi-state/city knife law search a while ago).

[carpettbaggerr]

Must have been vigorous, since a simple Google search reveals that NYC's local laws aren't available online. Wouldn't want it to be too easy for anyone to know if they're breaking the law would we? :scrutiny:


Edited to add:


A deeper search revealed this link (http://www.constructionweblinks.com/Industry_Topics/Laws_and_Regulations_--_Full_T/Local__Laws_and_Regulations/local__laws_and_regulations.html#NY) to New York City Ordinances and Regulations.

Hours of reading pleasure. Had no idea that lockback knives are used almost exclusively for stabbing, or the threat thereof

§ 10-134 Prohibition on sale of certain knives. a. Legislative
findings. It is hereby declared and found that the possession in public
places, streets and parks of the city, of folding knives which lock upon
opening, is a menace to the public health, peace, safety and welfare of
the people of the city; that the possession in public places, streets
and parks of such knives has resulted in the commission of many
homicides, robberies, maimings and assaults of and upon the people of
the city, that this condition encourages and fosters the commission of
crimes, and contributes to juvenile delinquency, youth crime and
gangsterism; that if this situation is not addressed, then there is a
danger of an increase in crimes of violence, and other conditions
detrimental to public peace, safety and welfare. It has been found that
folding knives with a blade of four (4) inches or more that locks in an
open position are designed and used almost exclusively for the purpose
of stabbing or the threat thereof. Therefore for the safety of the city,
such weapons should be prohibited from sale within the jurisdiction of
the city of New York.

[Oleg Volk]

Reading that, I can't figure out if a 3" folder would be legal to carry or not.

(NYC people must be very susseptible to mind control rays, if presence of a knife causes them to commit robberies.) :rolleyes:

[carpettbaggerr]

4 inch or longer blades are illegal. I would assume that means a 3 inch blade is legal, but who knows what may be lurking elsewhere in the city code. I don't think it's coincidence the laws are called 'codes' -- you need a special ring to decipher them........
§ 10-133 Possession of knives or instruments. a. Legislative findings.
It is hereby declared and found that the possession in public places,
streets and parks of the city, of large knives is a menace to the public
health, peace, safety and welfare of the people of the city; that the
possession in public places, streets and parks of such knives has
resulted in the commission of many homicides, robberies, maimings and
assaults of and upon the people of the city; that this condition
encourages and fosters the commission of crimes, and contributes to
juvenile delinquency, youth crime and gangsterism; that unless the
possession or carrying in public places, streets and parks of the city
of such knives without a lawful purpose is prohibited, there is danger
of an increase in crimes of violence and other conditions detrimental to
public peace, safety and welfare. It is further declared and found that
the wearing or carrying of knives in open view in public places while
such knives are not being used for a lawful purpose is unnecessary and
threatening to the public and should be prohibited.
b. It shall be unlawful for any person to carry on his or her person
or have in such person's possession, in any public place, street, or
park any knife which has a blade length of four inches or more.
c. It shall be unlawful for any person in a public place, street or
park, to wear outside of his or her clothing or carry in open view any
knife with an exposed or unexposed blade unless such person is actually
using such knife for a lawful purpose as set forth in subdivision d of
this section.