Senate approves gun-toting (Anyone remember Ms. Harper?)


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P12
February 20, 2003, 11:05 PM
I wonder if I should send Ms. Shannon Harper and e-mail and see how her blood pressure is doing these days.:evil:


To refresh your memory;
The thread from TFL (http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=134405&highlight=shannon+harper)

The latest in the saga (http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,460029587,00.html)

The text of the story;
Senate approves gun-toting
By Jerry Spangler
Deseret News staff writer

No doubt about it: Lawmakers want law-abiding, permit-carrying gun-toters on Utah school grounds.
And they will stay there "until we can guarantee the criminals won't be there," said Senate Majority Leader Michael Waddoups, R-Taylorsville.
Waddoups' SB108, given final approval Tuesday in a 21-4 Senate vote, clarifies once and for all that lawmakers have no intention of restricting concealed weapons on school grounds so long as the person packing the weapon has undergone a criminal background check and training and has been issued a concealed-carry permit.
That rankled some Democrats who tried to change the bill to an outright ban on weapons in schools, except for those carried by law enforcement or school security. They even quoted at length from a National Rifle Association document that makes the argument that guns have absolutely no place in schools.
The NRA not withstanding, the effort to ban guns in schools failed in a 6-23 vote.
The issue, Waddoups' supporters said, is plain and simple "good guys versus the bad guys." Those with state permits to carry guns are the good guys, and banning them from schools means the only ones packing heat inside schools are the bad guys who don't care about the law anyway. Sen. Chris Buttars, R-West Jordan, called it "ridiculous" to think that banning law-abiding citizens from carrying their weapons would make schools safer.
"It's not going to do anything to stop the bad guys," he said. "It's like comparing apples to pumpkins."
Because bad guys packing weapons aren't going to bother with a concealed-carry permit, a ban on those with permits "punishes the good guys," Waddoups said.
And guaranteeing the right to carry guns in schools "makes the playing field even."
The bill also clarifies that police officers can carry guns on school property and that churches can ban guns by posting a notice inside the church or publishing notice in a general circulation newspaper.



I just may have to drop her a line. :evil: :evil: Just to rub salt in the wounds.:evil:

At least there are some smart politicians in Utah.

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Blackhawk
February 21, 2003, 12:53 AM
:neener:

There seems to be a lot of encouraging legislative and legal tidbits about gun rights popping up lately....

foghornl
February 21, 2003, 08:08 AM
Just to rub salt in the wounds And don't forget to cleanse the wounds first with 50/50 alcohol & iodine :evil:

Kahr carrier
February 21, 2003, 08:17 AM
It nice to read something with a positive spin on law abiding CCW.

El Tejon
February 21, 2003, 09:56 AM
We can always count on the NRA to be there on the side of expanding civil rights.:rolleyes: The NRA thinks "who hunts ducks on school property.":scrutiny:

2nd Amendment
February 21, 2003, 10:23 AM
Wow. Utah has intelligent politicritters. I thought those were an extinct breed. As for the NRA...nevermind.

P12
February 21, 2003, 10:43 AM
What I sent to her. I was nice.

Dear Shannon,

I hope this message finds you doing well.

I just wish to say that I'm sorry you feel the way you do about gun owners and the rights of students in your state. Although I am happy that at least in Utah the Constitution of the United States, the Bill of Rights and The Rule of Law still has a meaning in the proper form.

Have a good weekend.

Lenard Betts

http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,460029587,00.html

TallPine
February 21, 2003, 10:48 AM
"It's not going to do anything to stop the bad guys," he said. "It's like comparing apples to pumpkins." Because bad guys packing weapons aren't going to bother with a concealed-carry permit, a ban on those with permits "punishes the good guys," Waddoups said.


So what is the point of permits .....? :confused:

P12
February 27, 2003, 12:57 AM
What I sent to her;
Dear Shannon,

I hope this message finds you doing well.

I just wish to say that I'm sorry you feel the way you do about gun owners
and the rights of students in your state. Although I am happy that at least
in Utah the Constitution of the United States, the Bill of Rights and The
Rule of Law still has a meaning in the proper form.

Have a good weekend.

Lenard Betts



Her reply;
Dear Lenard,
Thank you for the email. Being that Utah's Senate is, in the majority, Republican, I am not surprised that they came to such a ludicrous decision. I am used to such decisions as I choose to live in this state. Right now, our President, good ol' Bushy boy-- chooses to lead this country as a dictator, ignoring those whom he is supposed to represent. Such is the face of a Republican/Bush Administration. This attitude applies to the Senate's decision as well, all voting Senators knowing that close to 95% of all U students DID NOT want guns on campus. Once again, constituents whom the Senate is supposed to represent were completely ignored. This decision has little to do with the Constitution and its amazing flexibility, more to do with conservative, agenda setting politics. As we all know, criminal
background checks are entirely unsuccessful in deterring gun violent criminls and are rarely ever enforced. If someone offers a gun dealer money for a gun, stats show, he/she will sell it regardless of the person's background. Gun permits follow the same lax premise. I am not angry about this decision, just disappointed, as I have been of our American government
for quite some time now. I feel badly for the majority of students at the U who feel as if their liberty to feel safe has been taken away. Universities are a top target for terrorists and students are scared. No matter how many happy go lucky gun toters have a gun on campus, this decision will not stop this reality. I am so pleased that our fine conservative government felt
justified in furthering this fear. That is the tragedy of this case--that student's right to feel safe "on protected school grounds" has been taken away for a phallogocentric weapon that does little more than harm, kill and embed fear. I hope you are doing well and once again, thanks for the constant feedback.

Sincerely,
Shannon Harper


Man that message is so full of holes I don't even know where to begin. I post this just for informational purposes. Now don't go sending her messages. It's a lost cause. It took much effort to get her to respond the last time.

synoptic
February 27, 2003, 01:26 AM
As for the NRA, didn't they recently try a nationwide movement for this same legislation, allowing CHL/CCW holders to carry in schools? As a student (college) I would feel safer knowing those with permits were carrying, as well as me. I would also feel safer walking into my mom's elementary school knowing I had my weapon on me and that if a disgruntled student or parent walked in with intentions to kill someone I would be able to protect myself, my mother, and the students of that school. When I was in high school we had problems with unauthorized guests on campus. At one point a man came on campus and stabbed a girl with the intentions of killing her. If there wa a possibility of adults on campus carrying would this situation have happened? Hopefully Utah will start a trend that extends down here to Texas. As of right now, a school is a known vulnerability that criminals can take advantage of at will.

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