I'm thinking of buying a new gun safe from a local vendor here in Las Vegas. Any suggestions as to source? Anything to 'be sure and remember?'
Open to suggestions....
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September 10, 2004, 02:35 AM
Are you buying from Bob at LV Safe & Knife? I like Bob and bought my safe from him. Have the wife hug him now and then - the price will go down. :D
I got a 1200lb National Securitysafe there.
September 10, 2004, 03:32 AM
After reading all the issues concerning safes I think I'll buy a steel job box and lock my guns in it.
September 10, 2004, 10:57 AM
Whatever the stated capacity, that's without scopes. Still don't know how to get the 12 guns in mine. :D
September 10, 2004, 11:58 AM
Whatever you do.....think BIG! It shrinks when you start placing guns in it.
I decided to go large instead of getting the shiny "automotive finish". Mine has gray carpet on the interior instead of the velvet. Exterior is black, so if it gets a scratch I can doctor it with a Sharpie pin or a Marks-O- Lot.
Remember, when it comes to gun safes, size does matter!!
September 10, 2004, 10:38 PM
I don't think there is a significant difference in name brand safes under $2K.
Most of them have flex interiors that can be adjusted to your long gun/ hand gun ratio....but some don't. I like to routinely handle my guns...so I didn't want one that required the removal of five to get at one in the back. Pick the largest you like and can afford. Everyone would like to have the largest and most expensive...but financial reality generally dictates otherwise. Keep the measurements (of the safe and your home)and weights of the safes in mind while shopping. If it won't fit through a doorway or will collapse your stairwell....well...that ain't good. Hire a professional safe mover if possible. They have the right equipment and can do amazing stuff. The one I used worked by himself (all 150 lbs of him). He took my 1000 lb safe from the truck to my basement in about 45 minutes and didn't break a sweat...and more importantly, he didn't break anything else....or even scratch anything. It was poetry in motion. And my back was fine afterward. :D The delivery was $80.
September 10, 2004, 11:06 PM
Atticus's advice is definitely worth thinking about.Save your back and those of your friend's.:D
September 10, 2004, 11:23 PM
Atticus is right on. Buy big, and have them deliver. You won't regret either. Unless you consider your safe "furniture," save the money on the fancy finish and electronic lock; basic exterior and solid dial combination seem to be the best bang for the buck.
September 11, 2004, 12:01 AM
You are, of course, aware of the Southern California fires in the recent past. I'd ask around, if I were you, & see who's safes protected the contents & what brands didn't. That is, if you are also buying fire as well as burglary protection.
Do a search for RSC, Residential Security Container, also. I've posted on that subject here.
September 11, 2004, 12:44 AM
September 11, 2004, 12:53 AM
I'll second the Champion. That's what I bought. Best bang for the buck IMHO.
September 11, 2004, 01:07 PM
Did some research on Champion. The only ones I looked at were the Crown series, their top-of-the-line units. I figured anything else was downhill from there.
To begin with, the 5.75" thick Crown door is internally hinged. This is not an advantage IMHO. There is no extra security in a properly constructed container, and if the "massive" door ever springs - well: 'You inna heapa trouble boy'. Then there is Champion's own statement that the door is composite. At no time in the literature I looked at do they state that plate steel is used in their doors. So, I'm forced to believe that their composite door is a sheet-metal wrap on an insulating core. That method of construction offers very low resistance to burglary forced entry.
Champion does state that there are relockers in the Crown series doors. That's good. They also call them Glass-Guard. If they are indeed glass relockers, that sort of system is very prone to activation if the container is subjected to a sharp shock - such as dropping the last 6 inches as you set it on a concrete floor. If the door were plate steel, then they could go to thermally activated relockers & avoid the problem.
The body of the safe is 3/16" steel. In order to meet the U.L. standard for safe, all sides, door included, must be at least 1/4" plate steel. Not formed sheet metal. The top of the line Champion is not a safe, it's a Residential Security Container, or RSC.
Neither does the Champion Crown meet the U.L. 1 hour fire protection standard. The Crown is supposed to protect to 1500 f, for 105 minutes, and they don't state what the internal temperature is at the end of that period. The U.L. standard is: 1750 f, external temp with the safe subjected to that temp for every minute of the 1 hour test period. In other words, no ramp-up time. At the end of the hour, internal temp cannot exceed 350 f. Then the safe cools back down to lab ambient temp IN THE FURNACE, without internal temp. ever exceeding 350 f, at any point in the test cycle.
Check the price of a high-end Crown Champion, I'll bet it's close to what a real safe, meeting or exceeding all U.L. standards, will cost.
October 1, 2004, 10:13 AM
CB900F, I have a large Crown stocking dealer in my area.
In my opinion they make a nice product.
However... what worries me is that like every other "safe" brochure I have, they are a little cryptic in their descriptions. Of all the brands I have compared the Champion Crown seems to lead the pack.
But... I want a Safe, not a Residential Security Container.
I am looking for a real, honest-to-gosh, Houdini-couldn't-get-in-or-out, SAFE.
The problem is that I don't know who makes one.
I have been reading your posts for over a year now and you seem to be quite knowledgable about safes. I think you should become the Official High Road Safe Guru.
So... What should I really get?
Since I like the features of the Champion Crown Series what is a comparable REAL safe? Name names. I am sure I am not the only person who wants to know.
I want something with excellent fire resistence as well as the ability to withstand forced entry.
I know that you sell safes. I am guessing you don't want to appear to be soliciting sales. But we need to know. Please give us some brand names so we can get some catalogues and brochures. That way we can research, compare and choose for ourselves what we really need.
On behalf of myself, Lady45 and several others, Thank You.
October 1, 2004, 05:36 PM
In general, if you pay under $2k or so, you're going to get the UL's RSC designation. This basically means that the UL's testers couldn't break into it with a screwdriver in ~5 minutes or less.
On the other hand, the UL's fire ratings are pretty good. In fact with a commercial gun safe, you're more protected against fire than theft, generally speaking.
To some extent it depends where you live. In my region, which is undergoing a heavy construction boom right now, there are lots and lots of itinerant construction workers with saws and torches who can be into your gun safe in < 1 minute. So, if you want to really keep your guns safe from theft, you have two choices:
* hide them where they won't be found
* buy a jeweler's grade safe
I think the most cost effective option would be a hidden fire resistant container.
October 1, 2004, 07:10 PM
The biggest Champiion Crown is $3000 from my stocking dealer.
It seems very sturdy. It has Glass-Guard™ RelockSystem with remote relockers.
Champion's Auto-Relock™ System which has a primarym secondary and tertiary relockers. These multiple relockers are supposed to be protect against drilling, blows to the lock and oxy-acetylene torching.
It has a Diamond Imbedded Armor-Plate™ that they say is "virtually impossible to penetrate".
It has twenty-two 1½" active locking bolts.
OK I agree that it seems that you ain't getting in through the door.
What I am asking it how hard will it be to get through the walls? They are 3/16" steel all seams are continuiosly welded seams.
As for the fire protection. I realize that there may be better systems but the Champions ratings seem to be adequate for me.
I am more concerned with resistence to burgulary.
Surely somebody makes a real safe with a firearms interior. But who? No one will mention any names.
October 1, 2004, 10:30 PM
I'd like to have a couple of these. JT
October 1, 2004, 10:39 PM
I got the following from Brown Safe, on the 6048 (60"x48") for delivery to the Charlotte area - weight about 1600 lbs for the B-rated, 2200 lbs for the C-rated (which I think the freigt quote is for...
"Thank you for your interest in our products. The 6048 comes in two different construction ratings and two performance ratings.
The construction ratings are:
B (1/2" thick solid steel door, 1/4" thick solid steel body) &
C (1" thick solid steel door, 1/2" thick solid steel body).
The performance ratings are:
TL-15 (1 1/2" thick solid steel door, 1" thick solid steel body) and
TL-30 (1 3/4" thick laminated solid steel and manganal door, 1" thick body).
Generally for residential use either the B or C rate is sufficient. The TL-15 & TL-30 ratings are generally used in commercial applications such as jewelry stores.
Freight charges to the zip code you provided are $634.00. Inside installation (uncrating the safe and placing it in your basement) will be performed by a local rigger and will be quoted separately, with the cost varying depending on type of flooring, steps, etc. Please email or call with any further questions." After looking at lots of RSCs, this looks like the real deal, which for four large, should be!!
Now I have to ask the magic question, "Who am I afraid of bustin' in?" Kinda like .45 or 9mm.:confused:
October 2, 2004, 10:21 AM
You greedy ol' man you. Keeping all those PM's hoarded in your inbox. If you could just bring yourself to letting a few of them go, you could get my PM to you.
What's a mother to do?
October 2, 2004, 01:01 PM
Not cheap, "National Security", one of the better gun safes....sure like mine.