Young Boy Killed by Pistol Recoil???


PDA






FPrice
September 10, 2004, 08:19 AM
I heard this on Dr. Laura Scheslinger's show yesterday (Thursday,
Sep 9) and still have a hard time believing it.

A woman called in just before 10:00am to ask about a problem. She claims her husband and young son (about 5?) were standing next to another father and (slightly older?) boy who were firing a handgun of some sort, supposedly a "powerful" one. The father was helping his son hold the pistol and held his hand over it to help control it. Well they fired it and according to the lady the gun came back, hit the father's hand and then recoiled into the son, killing him. And according to her, her son took off running because "stuff" (from the wound?) splattered all over her son, causing him to freak out and start running away, trying to tear off his clothes.

She was not concerned about the so-called accident, but rather was concerned about whether her son should attend the funeral.

Has anyone heard anything at all about such an incident? Or anything remotely resembling this? I suppose it "could" happen, but I still am not sure what really happened, if anything.

If you enjoyed reading about "Young Boy Killed by Pistol Recoil???" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
sendec
September 10, 2004, 08:29 AM
I cannot check it now, but this sounds worthy of Snopesing.

griz
September 10, 2004, 08:58 AM
Sounds like some kind of misunderstanding from a non-gun person. In the unlikely event that the recoil killed him, there would be nothing to spatter. On the other hand if he was accidently shot at near contact distance, spatter would be something that was hard to forget.

Double Naught Spy
September 10, 2004, 09:07 AM
Given FPrice apparently heard this account as a first hand account it should not be on snopes and as it turns out, it isn't.

The story sounds pretty stupid, however. If there was a father/son incident where the boy was killed due to a pistol supposedly recoiling into him is really fishing. The notion that the kid ran off while trying to tear off his clothes is worse. Of course the son should attend the funeral as he was the one killed.

FPrice
September 10, 2004, 09:22 AM
"Sounds like some kind of misunderstanding from a non-gun person."

I kinda thought so also. The "splattering" sounds more like someone being hit by a bullet rather than being hit by the gun during recoil. The caller was hesitant about some facts but seemingly very confident about others.

All in all it was a strange call. It was only the involvement of a firearm that made me pay any attention.

Nickotym
September 10, 2004, 10:22 AM
Sounds kind of made up to me. I sure would like to see news stories of the "death".

keano44
September 10, 2004, 10:40 AM
FPrice,
What did Dr. Laura have to say about it?

45R
September 10, 2004, 11:32 AM
I've heard of another story that is similar but the outcome was different.


Father takes kid out to shoot. While the dad is standing behind his son. The son is shooting a pistol for the first time. The recoil of the pistols pushes the muzzle a tad over 90 degrees. The child pulls the trigger again while the muzzle is moving backwards. During this time the muzzle sweeps the father and a bullet goes into his skull killing him instantly.

This story was from a local hairdresser and the kids father was a friend of his.

FPrice
September 10, 2004, 11:34 AM
"What did Dr. Laura have to say about it?"

Well, since the question was whether the caller's son should go to the funeral, Schlesinger only commented on that and, IIRC, said yes. She did not comment on the scenario very much, if at all. I believe that she is basically pro-gun.

She also seemed to have a difficult time following the caller's story, but it was the top of the hour and time was getting short.

Double Naught Spy
September 10, 2004, 11:54 AM
45R, that is a story I have heard many times. The killed father was a friend of some local hairdresser? Okay, that just sounds really silly, sort of like being a second cousin's best friend's sister.

Or maybe, this sort of thing just keeps happening over and over and over.

Bad Words
September 10, 2004, 12:30 PM
DNS - a similar thing happened at a range near where I live several years ago. The incident was told to me by a friend several months ago and verified by an employee of the range shortly thereafter. During a handgun course, a woman fired the gun, her hands went back until the gun was pointed behind her, and she pulled the trigger again, hitting an instructor in the head and killing him.

Justin
September 10, 2004, 01:07 PM
I believe that she is basically pro-gun. The few times I've listened to her, I get the impression that she is neutral/doesn't care with a tendency to lean anti. She's made allusions to not having a problem with a firearm for home defense, but came out for the AWB. (This was a couple of years ago.)

Trebor
September 10, 2004, 01:13 PM
Father takes kid out to shoot. While the dad is standing behind his son. The son is shooting a pistol for the first time. The recoil of the pistols pushes the muzzle a tad over 90 degrees. The child pulls the trigger again while the muzzle is moving backwards. During this time the muzzle sweeps the father and a bullet goes into his skull killing him instantly.


I remember reading the "real" news reports on this one. (I mean that it was in the newspaper, etc, not just repeated on the internet)

IIRC, the kid was about five and the pistol was a .45 ACP.

I only ever saw news reports about the one incident. I don't know that it's happened since.

DigMe
September 10, 2004, 01:17 PM
I would be more apt to believe that the shooter experienced a kaboom or something that caused a piece of the gun to forcibly fly into his head...that or some sort of ricochet.

brad cook

45R
September 10, 2004, 06:12 PM
45R, that is a story I have heard many times. The killed father was a friend of some local hairdresser? Okay, that just sounds really silly, sort of like being a second cousin's best friend's sister.

Well it was the first time I've heard it but him and I took the opportunity to teach his younger son proper gun safety that day. He was grateful because he feared guns before this.

boofus
September 10, 2004, 06:14 PM
Maybe it was one of those infamous Berettas that would lose the rear half of the slide and send it flying into the face of the operator. :p

jcrb
September 10, 2004, 08:15 PM
DNS - a similar thing happened at a range near where I live several years ago. The incident was told to me by a friend several months ago and verified by an employee of the range shortly thereafter. During a handgun course, a woman fired the gun, her hands went back until the gun was pointed behind her, and she pulled the trigger again, hitting an instructor in the head and killing him.

I almost had this happen to me.

No really.

At LFI before the students shoot their qualifying rounds Ayoob and the instructors shoot it to show you how its done and to set the "score to beat" (there is a pot, everyone throws in a buck, and the high score for the date gets it) to prove it is the shooter not the gun Ayoob shoots the qualifer using what ever guns the students want to give him. So of course the students pick the snubby revolvers, the tiny autos, etc.

Well I was standing behind Ayoob when he starts shooting with a students Glock, on the 3rd round it goes full auto on him and by the time it runs out of rounds his arms are pointing up at a 45 degree angle. Luckly for me it was 5 rounds per course of fire. With a full mag it might have been ugly. :(

It turns out the Glock had a home made trigger job......... remember children do not attempt this trigger job at home this man is a trained professional. :)

Double Naught Spy
September 10, 2004, 09:13 PM
I have no doubt it can happen. In fact, the neophyte shooting doesn't consciously pull the trigger the second time. The reports here are that the neophyte pulled the trigger 'again' and that resulted in a death or injury. No doubt the trigger was depressed, but more than likely it was a bilateral squeeze response while trying to wrestle control of the gun.

The story is just one that seems awfully common, happening in all sorts of places where deaths result. Every version I have ever heard always has the son killing the dad and usually there is very little variation in the events.

Regardless of whether it happened once or dozens of times over the years, there is a lesson. I never let new shooters have more than one round in a semi-auto pistol when shooting it for the first primary, generally if the caliber is larger than a .22 lr.

Hey, I watched my own mom almost blast a hole in the roof of an indoor range when I let her shoot my .45. She shoots a 9mm, but the .45 was a little much.

cerberus
September 10, 2004, 09:13 PM
So I just think it's Anti-Gun BS. As everyone knows there is so much real stupid gun users that are doing so many real stupid things. who needs to make up a stupid story. Monday I expect to turn on my TV and hear a story about thousands of terrorists storming the local gun shops to buy assault weapons and high cap Mags.:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Skofnung
September 10, 2004, 09:27 PM
Well, the only thing I can say is this...

I remember one time when my little brother (9-10 yo at the time) was shooting a single action .22 revolver years and years ago. My father was standing behind him, almost over him. I was standing back and to the right of both of them.

Little bro. fires, then flips the barrel skyward to cock the hammer for a second shot. My heart freezes, dad stepped backwards a pace and after the second shot little bro. gets a stern talking to. Yes, I think the second scenario could have happened without doubt.

Now in terms of recoil killing a person, I have seen a little lady (100 lbs or so) smacked in the face by a recoiling 1911 and several men get their eyes dotted by improperly scoped high-power rifles. All lived to cry or feel stupid about it. I call BS on the caller's story.

JohnBT
September 10, 2004, 10:16 PM
Was the kid shot or did the recoiling gun hit him in the chest? I've read of kids killed by a blow to the chest from things such as a basketball. John

Random selection from a Google search:

"Blows to the chest can cause sudden death in children. “The general public is largely unaware of the fact that striking the chest, even lightly, can sometimes result in death,” said Barry J. Maron, M.D. of the American Heart Association. A blow to the chest can cause the heart to become irregular and stop beating. Prompt CPR can restart the heart in many of these cases."

cratz2
September 11, 2004, 10:55 AM
I can see 45Rs scenario esp with a 1911 or other gun with a light short trigger pull, but to the original post, unless the child had some unknown soft spot on his head, I highly doubt that there is any way a healthy child or adult could die from the recoil of even a 1911. I mean, falling off a bike would be far more traumatic than a clunk from the recoil of any sub 44 Magnum gun.

gazpacho
September 11, 2004, 12:51 PM
I'll ask the question that seems to have been forgotten.

Why was a 5 year old shooting a 45auto?

Only a real idiot of a father would put a loaded 45 in the hands of a 5yo, assistance in holding it or not. And why real idiot fathers do exist, I can not emagine a grown adult actually doing that. A 22, maybe, depending on the weapon, the maturity of the child, and the training of the child. Not a 45.

magsnubby
September 11, 2004, 06:37 PM
If any of that were true do you really think Sara Brady and her co-horts would let such a great propaganda chance slip by? They would have it plastered on every billboard in America.

"FEROCIOUS HANDGUN RECOIL KILLS HELPLESS 5 YEAR OLD BOY"

(With picture of smiling freckel faced,blond haired, blue eyed little boy)

gunsmith
September 12, 2004, 02:08 PM
did something like this,he was "teaching" his 7yr old son to shoot....with a 7mm remington mag!:cuss: the blast scared the kid and the scope bounced off his forehead and the kid needed stitches...now the kid is a 23 year old anti.:fire:

Blue Line
September 12, 2004, 02:27 PM
well if it killed the kid what did they do with the Dad's hand he was supposed to be holding over the gun??????

TamThompson
September 12, 2004, 02:44 PM
You know how people exaggerate. The 'splattering' was probably due to a juice box taking a recoil hit. Never brace your gunbutt against a juicebox! ;)

GEM
September 12, 2004, 03:08 PM
There are well known cases of recoil causing a 2nd shot to kill someone. Without bothering to search, I have read two:

1. Boyfriend, feeling like a big male organ, gives girlfriend who is a non-shooter a 44 mag to shoot. She shoots the first round, spasms on the second round and shoot hims.

2. Guy gets a 50 AE Desert Eagle. I forget if he rented it or bought it. Goes to the range. Fires one shot and gets spooked. Puts it down and tell the RO he wants nothing to do with it. The RO decides to finish off the mag. Fires a shot and spasms on the recoil. The shot blows his head off. If you watch folks really heavy hand guns, you sometimes see the gun come dangerous close to turning over.

As far as pure recoil, I doubt it. I did once eat a pistol grip shotgun through pure stupidity. Quite a belt in the mouth, but I lived.

FPrice
September 16, 2004, 11:03 AM
Here is the story. Very sad indeed.

http://www.lexingtonleader.com/story10.shtml

gunsmith
September 16, 2004, 02:21 PM
a .454 is a powerfull gun.

HABU
September 16, 2004, 10:36 PM
I guess I will be the one to ask the lacking question. WHY WERE YOU LISTENING TO DR. LAURA IN THE FIRST PLACE? I'd rather listen to Michael Moore. :barf:

DNS - a similar thing happened at a range near where I live several years ago. The incident was told to me by a friend several months ago and verified by an employee of the range shortly thereafter. During a handgun course, a woman fired the gun, her hands went back until the gun was pointed behind her, and she pulled the trigger again, hitting an instructor in the head and killing him.

Same thing happened at Wades. It wasn't a handgun course though. A group of friends went to the range where a gal was given a .44. (I think it was a mag, but am not sure enough to post as gospel.) The revolver recoiled back and over her head where a round was sent uprange into a guys head. The shooter rented a room from my freinds mom.

Doh!

mete
September 16, 2004, 11:13 PM
I've seen it a number of times - some jerk thinks it's funny to give a new shooter a very powerful gun - When they fire it , it's so frightening that the shooter never touches another gun !!

cratz2
September 17, 2004, 01:52 AM
Well, that's really pretty horrible to hear it confirmed.

I've shot a Freedom Arms 454 and I wouldn't let/suggest my 30 year old wife shoot one let alone a 12 year old kid. I've read about young teenage kids - even girls - taking game with a 454, but I'd imagine they worked up to that level... Or at least received proper training.

Sad, sad thing. :(

FPrice
September 17, 2004, 08:25 AM
"I guess I will be the one to ask the lacking question. WHY WERE YOU LISTENING TO DR. LAURA IN THE FIRST PLACE? I'd rather listen to Michael Moore."

Okay, this is a pop quiz so put away your notes. You have five minutes to complete this quiz.

A. Because this is a free country and I was exercising my First Amendment rights as guaranteed by my Second Amendment rights???

B. Because this is the only talk radio station (other than an all-sports format station) and I much prefer talk, even on subjects and with opinions I don't always agree with than the typical insipid music around here.

C. Because Dr. Laura Schlessinger, for all her faults, has a pretty good message about personal responsibility and taking charge of your life which translates well to our Second Amendment rights, among others.

D. It was a fluke occurrence and will never happen again.

E. All of the above.

Begin now.

Sulaco
September 17, 2004, 10:37 PM
I wouldn't know anything about this because I would rather pull my eyeballs out through my ears than listen to Dr. Laura.

Luckily she was replaced by Glen Beck a few years back on my local AM talk radio channel (560 WVOC out of Columbia, SC).

UnintendedConsequences
September 18, 2004, 12:20 AM
If a basketball or baseball or even a soccer ball can kill with the right force and impact placement, recoil can kill too. My worst firearms experience was from my jerk of an uncle who had me shoot a .22 LR rifle, then a 7mm Remington Magnum semi-auto, I was about 12 and he didn't tell me how to hold the rifles (never shot a gun before) and had me shoot into a tree, and didn't tell me how to use the sights, so I presume the shots went into the tree.

By the way, this was in Kansas, and there was the tree and then at least two miles of flat ground before another tree, with farm houses down range somewhere. I didn't let me use eye or ear protection. The lesson he was trying to teach me? He wanted to show me that Rambo couldn't hold an M-60 and fire one handed. On top of this, he told me that 7mm Rem Mag rifle was worn enough that it would go full-auto on you.

Despite my uncle being a jerk, I have learned to hunt and use firearms on my own. As for handguns, I use a good two-hand hold. When I fired a 1911 style pistol in 45 ACP, yes, it kicked in my hands, but the recoil was controlable and I keep a firm grip on it. I didn't have problems with additional trigger pulls as I kept the trigger pulled back hard until after I came out of recoil. Then again, I am a full-on control freak with firearms useage. I get upset with idiots who don't follow the basic safety rules, whether on the range or in on a hunt.

I can see how someone can have something bad happen if they are stupid, but that happens with just about anything that has risk to it. We need more common sense....

PATH
December 13, 2004, 01:30 AM
gazpacho is right. What in the hell is a five year old doing shooting such a high caliber pistol?

COmmon sense should prevail at the range!

Guy B. Meredith
December 13, 2004, 02:05 AM
The link above tells a story about a traffic accident.

A story that happens so repeatedly with minor variations without having been in the news is almost always urban legend. Even when it is in the news it is sometimes the reporter retelling and perpetuating an urban legend without checking Snopes.

red_devil1469
December 13, 2004, 07:26 AM
Story got archived I did a search and foune it.Im sure it moves every few days.
http://www.lexingtonleader.com/story90.shtml

If you enjoyed reading about "Young Boy Killed by Pistol Recoil???" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!