Future of the 6.8mm SPC?


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Beren
September 10, 2004, 04:20 PM
"As an aside, we had hopes for the 6.8mm, but the military recently found that the modern (and almost identical) version of the .280 British cartridge of 1946 wasn’t really all that much better than the Russian 7.62x39mm cartridge. The military has reportedly abandoned the 6.8mm, and Remington has ceased manufacture of ammunition. I personally believe that the .223 is close (but not close enough) to what needs to be, and that a modest increase to 6mm will do all that needs to be done."

-- Mark White, Sound Technologies

http://www.defensereview.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=596

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Ohen Cepel
September 10, 2004, 04:22 PM
I don't think it's going to go anywhere.

I don't think it's a bad round, just not going to survive.

Zak Smith
September 10, 2004, 04:29 PM
This has been hashed out on AR15.com.

There is at least one active duty S.F. member there who posted they're still getting rifles and ammo.

I spoke to an active-duty AMU guy at RM3G and he didn't mention anything about it being dead; he did mention that he liked it a lot.

Remington is still publically planning to ship ammo.

Remington has just shipped tens of thousands of rounds of unfired brass to distributors.

The trajectory of 6.8SPC is basically identical to 75-77gr 223, or 168gr 308, which are all superior to 7.62x39.

-z

TODD3465
September 10, 2004, 04:32 PM
Just wait and see what happens.

But, considering it's development the use of the 6.8 outside of SOCOM is iffy.

Remember if it weren't for some in the top brass after WWII wanting to stay with .30cal and an "American" rifle we might have had FN-FALs in 280 British.:D

Zak Smith
September 10, 2004, 04:34 PM
Remember that 6.8SPC was developed for SF/SOCOM use.. not intended as the new general issue round. If it's used by SF and LE adopts it to any degree, it will be a "success".

otomik
September 10, 2004, 09:27 PM
well there's the XM8 and then there's another little rifle project called the SCAR (Special Operations Forces Combat Assault Rifle) which is supposed to be configuriable in a number of cartridge with a shorter action version they are deleloping first for 5.56mm length cartridges (SCAR Light) and later a longer action version for .308 length cartridges (SCAR Heavy).

My Guess is:
6.8mmSPC will be a cartridge option for the SCAR Light, along with 7.62mm Soviet, 5.45mm Soviet, 5.8mm Chinese 6.5mm Grendel and old buddy 5.56mmNATO.

not a very prominent place.

for the regular guys in the military they'll probably get a new version of 5.56mm with a polymer case and heavier bullet.

MrAcheson
September 11, 2004, 02:09 AM
I highly doubt it will ever make it into the regular military inventory. SOCOM has its own rules for its equipment and while they arguably work for SOCOM, they will not work for the regular military. SOCOM basically just performs an informal evaluation and writes the contractor a check. The regular army has to be more strict than that.

Oh and knowing what I know, take anything you ever see on Defense Review with a big ole grain of salt. They seem to have a habit of putting up what are essentially press releases from defense contractors as impartial system reviews.

Sylvilagus Aquaticus
September 11, 2004, 07:07 PM
I for one hope it catches on in the civilian market. As much as I like Alexander Arms' 6.5 Grendel I think the 6.8SPC might have more potential as a hunting round in an AR platform.

Better than that, my wife thinks so too :D Looks like I'll be building that blaze orange AR this year if I start seeing more 6.8 brass out there.

Regards,
Rabbit.

02Overlander
September 11, 2004, 07:31 PM
Why would you think the 6.8 would make a better hunting round. You have it backwards.. The Grendel would make a better hunting round as opposed to the 6.8.
The whole Grendel/6.8SPC debate has been based on the conclusions by some that the 6.8SPC does not penetrate near to the level of the Grendel and Yaws much sooner. The Grendel being the more accurate and deeper penetrating round would fill the hunting role better. You can't go wrong with either I suppose but just wanted to throw that bit of info out there. BTW the 6.5 has been a killer (pun intended) large game hunting round for a long time. ;)

Zak Smith
September 11, 2004, 10:35 PM
BTW,

MidwayUSA, Wideners, and one other distributor (Graf?) had 1000-rnd cases of new 6.8SPC brass available. I'm not sure if they're all sold out yet or not.

-z

02Overlander
September 11, 2004, 11:42 PM
Zak,
What kind of groups are you seeing with your 6.8?
I really do want a 6.8 SPR but am reluctant till ammo goes mainstream (don't want to take my chances on 2 wildcats, already risking it with the Grendel, lol)

Zak Smith
September 11, 2004, 11:45 PM
Although I've done a lot of load testing, I haven't really measured accuracy besides throwing out powders that group terribly in my upper. My efforts so far were to get some baseline loads that give decent velocity and to determine max loads for them. Based on my results so far, 1MOA should be easy. Wes @ MSTN posted 0.75" 5-shot groups over on AR15.com with production ammo.

-z

02Overlander
September 11, 2004, 11:57 PM
thanx for the info

TheDutchman
September 13, 2004, 11:22 AM
It not going or dead ,its a good solid round.

TODD3465
September 13, 2004, 01:07 PM
Well it may take off now that anyone can get high-cap magazines for it.

IF, someone starts making them.

Zak Smith
September 13, 2004, 01:10 PM
PRI has mags for $38

TheDutchman
September 13, 2004, 01:23 PM
It not going or dead ,its a good solid round.

otomik
September 24, 2004, 03:01 AM
this just in (http://www.a-merc.com/cgi-local/press_new.cgi)
Miami, Florida/September 20, 2004, American Ammunition, Inc. (OTC Bulletin Board: AAMI) announced today that it received an order from Barrett Firearms Mfg. Inc., (“Barrett”) to design and manufacture 6,125,000 rounds of 6.8 ammunition (special purpose cartridge). The initial order has been secured by a fifty percent (50%) cash deposit. Specific details regarding Barrett may be obtained at www.Barrettrifles.com.
This is bad news, American Ammunition has a terrible reputation, sounds like an ill-informed decision based on the name of the company and a low bid. can someone give me an idea how much is 6.1 million rounds of ammunition is for a military?

Bartholomew Roberts
September 24, 2004, 09:48 AM
One problem I can see with 6.8SPC is the expense. So far it seems to fire exclusively from $1,000+ rifles and it is bound to be much more expensive compared to 5.56mm.

That is going to limit its penetration of the civilian market and drive up costs accordingly since it cannot use the same economies of scale as 5.56 or 7.62.

buzz_knox
September 24, 2004, 11:44 AM
So far it seems to fire exclusively from $1,000+ rifles and it is bound to be much more expensive compared to 5.56mm.

You can get a 6.8 mm upper for within a $100 or so of a 5.56 mm upper. So, the price point on the equipment isn't that much different. As for ammo, that really depends on customers, doesn't it? If we really demand it, it'll be there.

Grendelizer
September 24, 2004, 07:03 PM
I posted this at AR15.com and repeat it here: American Ammunition is making six million rounds of 6.8 SPC which will carry a Barrett headstamp. See copy of press release below. Original link is www.a-merc.com/cgi-local/press_new.cgi?new=90.

AMERICAN AMMUNITION TO MANUFACTURE
_
Date: 09/20/2004 _
_
PRESS RELEASE
AMERICAN AMMUNITION, INC.
OTC: BB SYMBOL: AAMI
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE MEDIA CONTACT: ANDRES FERNANDEZ
(305) 835-7400

AMERICAN AMMUNITION TO MANUFACTURE
6.1 MILLION ROUND ORDER FOR BARRETT FIREARMS

Miami, Florida/September 20, 2004, American Ammunition, Inc. (OTC Bulletin Board: AAMI) announced today that it received an order from Barrett Firearms Mfg. Inc., (“Barrett”) to design and manufacture 6,125,000 rounds of 6.8 ammunition (special purpose cartridge). The initial order has been secured by a fifty percent (50%) cash deposit. Specific details regarding Barrett may be obtained at www.Barrettrifles.com.

Andres Fernandez, President and CEO of American Ammunition, Inc. stated, “we are very delighted to be working with Barrett on this project. We believe there is a real need for this type of weapon system and Barrett has taken a very aggressive position in filling this market void.”

John

AhmuqGB
September 24, 2004, 07:35 PM
can someone give me an idea how much is 6.1 million rounds of ammunition is for a military?

not much. counting Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines, it's just over one or two rounds per service member. When was the military mentioned in the article though.

As for those counting on the Special Opertions community adopting it, I would not hold my breath. The one guy that posted as an "Active Component Special Forces guy" who says he is still seeing the weapons and Ammo fielded is not getting the ammo or the systems from USSOCOM. As for the SCAR program 6.8 is not even in the running as far as I've heard (not saying I've heard everything) So please can we stop throwing all these references to what the military and Special Operations community is doing out as all of it is speculation. the truth is you either like the round or you don't. It either does what you need it to do, or it doesn't. 6.8 does out perform 5.56. If you need more range, penetration, muzzle velocity...whatever, talk to the manufacturers. If enough people show an interest they probably will manufacture and market 6.8 on a larger scale at cheaper costs.

Just my opinion though, I could be wrong...

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