Should Bush pardon Kerry?


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Horsesense
September 11, 2004, 02:09 AM
Should Bush pardon Kerry?

Apparently Kerry violated some of those asinine firearms laws, when he received a Browning auto loading shotgun as a gift, while he was out of his home state etc. etc.

I don’t know if he actually did violate any laws in receiving the shotgun but wouldn't it be a hoot if Bush gave him a pardon? Yah, I know it would be better if he was arrested but a Presidential Pardon would be mare likely.

This is the story that brought up the question in my mind.
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FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Sept. 10, 2004
Contact: Felicity Bower 1-800-707-4020
BLOOMFIELD PRESS, Phoenix


Don't Arrest Kerry In Shotgun Incident, Gun-Law Expert Says
Don't Arrest Kerry In Shotgun Incident, Gun-Law Expert Says
Don't Arrest Kerry In Shotgun Incident, Gun-Law Expert Says


Gun-law expert Alan Korwin is calling for calm, in the national uproar over John Kerry’s possible serious gun violations during a recent photo op in Racine, West Virginia.

The national clamor over the Democratic presidential candidate, who took possession of a Browning semiautomatic shotgun outside his home state, reflects a problem with the laws and should not be used to arrest and prosecute the man, Korwin says. A gun crossing state lines is heavily regulated.

"There are so many charges Kerry might face," according to Korwin, who has written seven books on gun laws, including the unabridged, plain-English federal guide, "Gun Laws of America."

1. Taking ownership of the shotgun gift, if he doesn't already have a valid Massachusetts Firearm Identification Card, could subject him to a 2-1/2 year prison term in his home state. Since he has claimed publicly he owns firearms, chances are he has this critical piece of paper, Korwin says.

2. Bringing the firearm back to Massachusetts, if he received it from a private party, would be a federal felony under the 1968 Gun Control Act. (5 years in prison, $5,000 fine, 18 USC §922)

3. The only exemption that would allow him to bring it into his home state requires that he obtained it in a face-to-face transaction with a federal firearms licensed dealer (FFL). A private gift would not qualify.

4. If Kerry did get it from an FFL, he would have had to personally fill out and sign a "4473 form" required by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, before the gift was given, under penalty of federal felony.

5. If Kerry did not personally undergo a "NICS" instant background check before the transfer from an FFL, he would have put the person conducting the transfer in some legal jeopardy, though the law contains a loophole that would probably save Kerry from additional harm (the dealer, not the recipient, suffers from failure to do the NICS check).

While gun lobbyists are inflamed that Kerry introduced a law that would outlaw this particular type of sporting shotgun, and gun gifts in general, it is a good thing the law has not passed yet, because then it might be too serious a problem to simply ignore.

Korwin says that calls to indict Kerry are premature and "most certainly overkill. John Kerry should receive the same lenient treatment any other citizen deserves when innocently violating these complex and non-intuitive rules." At least give him a chance to explain, Korwin pleads.

Unfortunately, federal authorities from BATFE have been known in the past to be inflexible in their enforcement of even minor technical violations (note that none of these felony violations involve a victim or any sort of harm). With widely circulated evidence, in the form of photographs of Kerry in obvious possession of the firearm, he may find himself subject to the long arms of the law.

And more importantly, Korwin says, "Some of these laws are just foolish, putting honest citizens at enormous and unjustified risk, and are so complicated that even a presidential candidate and his staff cannot figure them out."

###

Contact:
Alan Korwin
BLOOMFIELD PRESS
"We publish the gun laws."
4718 E. Cactus #440
Phoenix, AZ 85032
602-996-4020 Phone
602-494-0679 FAX
1-800-707-4020 Orders
http://www.gunlaws.com
alan@gunlaws.com
Call, write, fax or click for a free catalog.
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PMDW
September 11, 2004, 02:30 AM
I am all for locking kerry up. Can't be president if you're in prison.

"Unfortunately, federal authorities from BATFE have been known in the past to be inflexible in their enforcement of even minor technical violations (note that none of these felony violations involve a victim or any sort of harm). With widely circulated evidence, in the form of photographs of Kerry in obvious possession of the firearm, he may find himself subject to the long arms of the law."

Nothing will happen, because he is a senator. If kennedy can get away with murder, Kerry can get away with this. And he will.

strambo
September 11, 2004, 02:47 AM
Nice, the gun-grabbing politicians who make absurd complicated laws and urge for more get to use that complication as an "innocent" excuse.:rolleyes:

Phantom Warrior
September 11, 2004, 03:11 AM
Could someone explain how transporting a gun across state lines is a felony? And what does GCA of '68 have to do with this? (I'm not well informed about this piece of legislation)

themic
September 11, 2004, 04:00 AM
i'm a little hazy on this area, but i think it basically gets into a shady area when you purchase or receive a firearm in a private party transaction, in a state that you don't currently reside in.

e.g. i live in alabama right now, so i'd have to buy a gun from some guy in alabama. unless i bought from an FFL. i think. might still need that FFL transfer into the home state. that might be what the federal form is for, actually. the 4473. ?

really confusing area. buy guns in your home state. use FFL transfer agents if you use auction arms or something.

don't be a john kerry. don't break the law.

buy guns
September 11, 2004, 10:38 AM
wow what a bunch of BS. if it was any one of us violating the same law we would be gauntanamo right now.

cratz2
September 11, 2004, 11:45 AM
Discounting the fact that it's Kerry, and discounting the fact that the priviledge could easily be abused, I think it's asinine to think that it is illegal for someone to receive a gift that he or she could legally own and not be able to take it home.

:rolleyes:

Having said that, if it is clearly against the law, and Kerry is clearly against 2A rights, I say throw is keister in jail... But having said that, if I were Bush, knowing how many armed Americans there are, I would absolutely pardon him in a speech on how important it is to preserve second ammedment rights regardless of party affiliation. ;)

J Miller
September 11, 2004, 12:00 PM
If Kerry broke the laws that it apears he did, then he needs to be treated just like any other citizen. That is crucified. Why should he get special treatment and be let off?

If indeed he is charged with these crimes and Bush should pardon him, Bush WILL loose my vote. That would be insane.

As for Alan Korwin, let me relate an experiance I had with him.
I lived in AZ for over 40 years and I have met him face to face. That was at a gun show in Prescott, AZ about 20 or so years ago. I was interested in his book and stopped at his table to look at it.
He got right in my face and told me with an arrogent, condesending tone in his voice that if I didn't buy his gun law book, I would be arrested on gun violation charges. I lost my temper, but not my control, and got right back in his face and told him off.

Needless to say I have never read any of his books, nor will I. I do not consider him to be an expert on anything.

Joe

Don Gwinn
September 11, 2004, 12:01 PM
Kerry probably didn't break the law--he probably didn't even really keep the gun. It looked like a simple 1100 like mine, for which I doubt he has much use.

Also, I don't know if a Presidential Pardon can be issued before someone is charged and convicted. Anybody know?



HOWEVER, if Bush could find a way to issue a pardon, it would be hilarious. James Carville's head would explode on national television.

sendec
September 11, 2004, 01:00 PM
Are you so terrified that the guy will win that you'd stoop to something this picayune? If one of us was popped for this, (and I'm not certain any law was broken til the grand jury says so) we'd be hollerin in the streets for voting from the rooftops.

All this witty banter does is make us look weak. If this is the level of issue we have fallen to it makes us look desperate, and bereft of real substance.

WT
September 11, 2004, 01:02 PM
Don - Immediately after taking office President Gerald Ford pardoned Richard Milhous Nixon for any federal crimes he might have committed.

Akurat
September 11, 2004, 01:14 PM
I cannot believe how seriously some of you are taking this. Incredible.

The guy might be dead wrong on just about everything but we're not gonna lock him up because of it. I say let him have his photo-op with a shotgun in hand - and let him further alienate his base.

Horsesense
September 11, 2004, 01:37 PM
picayune
adj.
1. Of little value or importance.
2. Petty; mean.
I think picayune describes our gun laws to a T and it would be poetic justice, if they were put on open display.

I doubt that Bush would have the guts to make an issue about it, by granting a Pardon. It would be a hoot.


My fellow Americans, today, I have signed a Pardon that, in the interest of assuring a free election, will keep my opponent out of jail, for violating the very Gun laws he supported. This incident also highlights the need to abolish such laws.
:D

jdkelly
September 11, 2004, 01:43 PM
Nothing will happen, because he is a senator. If kennedy can get away with murder.....PMDW

PMDW,

The Senator Kennedy may be a womanizing, lying, cheating, dishonest sack of s**t, but he is no murder! I believe it's called involuntary man slaughter.

Some look at it like this:

The good Senator simply gave one of four unmarried women, who were drinking with four married men at a cottage on an island, a ride home. Unfortunately she lived on the main land.



Others look at it this way:

The senior Senator from Massachusetts took the young lady to the "submarine races", and lost.


Either way the man is a true Kennedy!

Respectfully,

jdkelly

buy guns
September 11, 2004, 03:08 PM
Are you so terrified that the guy will win that you'd stoop to something this picayune? If one of us was popped for this, (and I'm not certain any law was broken til the grand jury says so) we'd be hollerin in the streets for voting from the rooftops.

it doesnt have to do with the election. it has to do with a politician getting away with breaking the very laws he tries to create.

sendec
September 11, 2004, 05:19 PM
So if you were visiting friends in another state, and they offered you the gift of a shotgun, you'd turn it down, claiming self-righteously that it could violate a law?

I was born in an ER, not a turnip wagon.

Atticus
September 11, 2004, 05:37 PM
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=57359&highlight=Hunter+arrested

Anyone remember this thread? Makes me wonder who would be taking what viewpoint now. The worm is turning.

Fly320s
September 11, 2004, 06:22 PM
Should Bush pardon Kerry?

IMO, no president should ever pardon anyone for anything at anytime.

That is what the Judicial Branch is all about. Leave it to the courts to decide who is guilty or innocent.

Now, as far as the gun possession goes, leave Kerry alone. The law is asinine and should be repealed as soon as possible.

Ohen Cepel
September 11, 2004, 06:44 PM
I thought you were talking about him being a self admitted war criminal.

Far worse than what he did in this case.

Either way, he should be cut no slack. Odds are that you or I wouldn't be!

Waitone
September 12, 2004, 01:31 AM
Bush should pardon Kerry only if Kerry paid him an appropriate amount. Yea, that's the ticket. Let Kerry contribute to Bush's re-election fund. :D

LAK
September 12, 2004, 05:40 AM
Well, George Bush gave Bill Clinton and his administartion a free pass for bombing a sovereign country called Serbia. So why should he not extend minor courtesies to his fraternal elder brother John Kerry?

The_Antibubba
September 12, 2004, 06:39 AM
Kerry has made a big stink about his heroism in Vietnam, right? So what does he do when he gets back? He testifies about the atrocities "they all committed".

So Bush should assemble this Congressional footage, wth Kerry talking about rape and ear-collecting, and tell the nation that, in light of the service the Senator has given his country, the Administration is considering granting Mr. Kerry a pardon for his crimes. And let the media dicuss it for a few weeks.




:evil:

Hoploholic
September 12, 2004, 12:22 PM
Could someone explain how transporting a gun across state lines is a felony? And what does GCA of '68 have to do with this? (I'm not well informed about this piece of legislation)

Federal law allows for individuals that reside in the same state to make face to face transfers of firearms without the use of an FFL, NICS or form 4473. Since Kerry was out of his home state and therefore not a residence of the state where he engaged in the supposed face to face private transfer, he is in violation of the law(if that is what happened). He should be treated like any citizen in this case...no worse and no better.

Kamicosmos
September 12, 2004, 03:30 PM
But which summer home would the ATF serve the no-knock warrant on?
Also, does Kerry have any kittens that could be stomped during the invasion, er, search warrant? Hopefully his house isn't filled with paint cans, gas cans, hay, and other flammable materials that could possibly be ignited by the non-flammable tear gas cannisters and the big black tank that would be shooting into, I mean knocking the windows out...


All the above is in jest, of course. In all honesty, I wouldn't wish a visit by the ATF on anybody.

Although, I would like to see the NRA bring up this violation. In all seriousness, if I did this (IE did a face to face transfer out of state without involving an FFL) I'd be in trouble facing high fines, loss of RKBA, and possible jail time in Federal *office space quote here* Prison. Kerry should at least be called out on it for the public record. (Not that it would matter anyway, but still...it's the principal of the matter.)

Tharg
September 12, 2004, 03:50 PM
The presidential race will be won or lost depending on the voters.

We all know they are better than us... thats why we elected them right?

I forget which thread it was - someting about renewing a CHL when his representative SAID to the guy... (approx quote) i'm at least as important as 10 of you normal people and I don't need a gun - why do you?.

Comes down to the fact that no - he's not gonna be held up on any laws and sentenced. Even if he was it would be downgraded to a class c misd of being stupid... (no i don't think there is a class misd of being stupid... it was a funny) We all know people who are "important" and people who play sports get to do just about nearly anything they want to. Is it right?

No.

Shame he can't be tried and found guilty That of course is if he even took the bloody thing home - has any one confirmed that it went home w/o going there properly or that it went home at all? I think it would be hilarious if "John Kerry the Hunter" got busted w/ something as stupid as a shot gun. (not even an assault weapon ya know... but kerry is for the hunters... right?)

Its one of those full circles that just never works out... =(

J/Tharg!

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