7.62 Military Surplus


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bad LT
September 11, 2004, 10:39 PM
I am looking for a 7.62 Military surplus bolt action rifle. My requirements are:
1: Reliable
2: Reasonably accurate
3: Ability to load via stripper clips
4: Strong action (can fire commercial 308 without blowing up)
5: $200 price limit

What are my options?

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JohnKSa
September 11, 2004, 11:14 PM
What are my options?Change your requirements?

The price limit is tough--the Ishapore Enfields will meet the price, but I don't know about accuracy...

Jason Demond
September 12, 2004, 01:13 AM
John is right.
It will be very hard to find that type of rifle, for $200.00.

That is, unless you went for a Comblock Mosin Nagant chambered for 7.62x54mm Rimmed.
Link (http://world.guns.ru/rifle/rfl03-e.htm)

If you shop around a little, you could get two rifles, and a case of ammo for less than $200.00.

http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/Russian_Model_91_30_7_62x54R_Mosin_Nagant.html
http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/7_62x54R.html

SMLE
September 12, 2004, 03:39 AM
Easy, get an Ishapore made 2A1 Lee Enfield.

The Ishy uses standard NATO 5 round strippers/chargers. Will handle any FACTORY .308 Winchester ammo. My brother has one and it is as accurate as all but the best shooter is capable of shooting. Also holds 12 rounds in the issue magazine. Scope mounts and after market stocks are avaiable as well.

spartacus2002
September 12, 2004, 08:49 AM
Does anybody have a link to these .308 Lee-Enfields?

GD
September 12, 2004, 10:03 AM
I don't believe any supplier is currently selling Ishapores. I do occasionally see them at gunshows and on auction boards. Generally they are selling for $150 and up. About 5 years ago you could have had 'em for under $100. Most are pretty rough and have headspacing problems (which I have heard was by design). Wish I had gotten one when I saw a whole bunch of them at a local gunshop for $80.

Another .308 bolt action choice is the Spanish FR8. You will be pushing the $200 limit though. They are really cool firearms. Again, you won't find a supplier with these. Usually see one at every gunshow I attend.

Oh yea. One of the best bargains today in .30 calibre is the M39 Finnish mosin nagant. You can find them at Wholesale Guns and Ammo for well under $200. You can't find a more accurate mosin than the M39 for sale these days.... and the ammo is generally under 10 cents per round.

Bwana John
September 12, 2004, 10:55 AM
I got my FR-8 for $150, but they are going for ~$250 now. I second the 7.62 x 59 Russian, with M-39's going for <$80, and ammo when bought in bulk (>3k)is less than $.06 per round. (J&G sales, Prescott, AZ)

SMLE
September 12, 2004, 12:50 PM
Since we're on the subject or .308/7.62 rifles, this is some very good info on .308 and 7.62 ammo.

http://www.smellysmleshooters.net/ammopressure.htm

rbernie
September 12, 2004, 01:36 PM
The need to load via stripper clips will restrict you to sporterized MilSurp rifles (as opposed to used Savages and the like), since no civilian rifle design made provisions for speed loading. Within that genre, you'll either likely find old Mausers that have been rebarreled to 308, Ishy 2's, or the FR8. The reason I point this out is that if you're willing to give up the stripper clip requirement, you'll gain a few more choices - just none of them MilSurp.

Within the first category, I just picked up a Century sporterized Mauser98 that Century had rebarreled to 308Win. It cost me $170 at Military Gun Supply in FtWorth, TX. Other than needed to be re-bedded or restocked (the Bishop stock's barrel channel was clearly not fit correctly) and possessing a cheap 11degree crown job (lots of chatter marks, but clean at the rifling), it looks to be a decent Mauser-action 308. You can probably find a brethern of this rifle out there, since Century did this .308 Mauser sporterization thing for a while.

I've not seen an Ishy 308 in all my travels, and I've only seen one FR8. Interestingly, the FR8 that I saw was also at Military Gun Supply as of 2-3 weeks ago - it may still be there....

JohnKSa
September 12, 2004, 03:29 PM
There may be some good Ishapore .308s out there, but all the ones I've seen could best be described as ROUGH--if you are fairly generous with your descriptions. Best check it over carefully and don't buy except in person.

I've seen some with cleaning rod wear at the muzzle so severe that they look like smoothbores at first glance.

BryanP
September 12, 2004, 07:32 PM
I'll second the rebarrelled Mauser 98. I have one - not a Century conversion but the same concept.

I bought an ammo can of surplus Australian 7.62 NATO and found that unfortunately the stripper clips would not fit in the guilde on the rifle - apparently they're differently sized than the 8mm stripper clips. I may see if I can get some 8mm clips and find out if 7.62 / 308 will fit in them.

BryanP
September 12, 2004, 07:41 PM
Here you go. Spanish Guardia Mauser in .308:

http://www.samcoglobal.com/rifles.htm#gcm

There are some who would say that these rifles are not suited for firing stronger .308 Winchester loads. I say read this before you say that:

http://www.kimdutoit.com/dr/weblog.php?id=P1586

Quote:

I read somewhere that these rifles were to be treated with circumspection, because the metal of the breech and receiver might not have been able to handle the added pressure of the more-powerful .308 Win cartridge, and I've mentioned that little snippet on a couple of occasions on this site.

Well, apparently I wasn't the only one who thought this, because a bunch of Guardia Mausers were sent to H.P. White, a testing company, and tested to destruction. The SAAMI maximum of 55,000 psi (lbs/sq.in.) for the .308 Win was exceeded -- and the rifles were finally destroyed at 98,000 psi!

rbernie
September 12, 2004, 07:52 PM
I don' t think that the small-ring Mauser are not recommended for conversion to 308 (and other high-pressure catridges) because of concerns that they're inherently weak. They're not recommended because they lack the safety lug and gas venting of the '98 and later variants.

SMLE
September 12, 2004, 07:56 PM
You've reminded me of what it was I was trying to remember. The FR-7s were built on '95 actions while the FR-8s were built on '98 actions.

rbernie
September 12, 2004, 08:48 PM
the FR-8s were built on '98 actions Indeed they were - M98 actions with CETME barrels. If you want true a MilSurp boltie in 308, it's the best choice for most folks.

I had the choice of buying the FR8 or the sporterized M98 in 308, and I chose the M98. Since my goal was to build a true sporter on a Mauser action, the Century M98 (with commercial downturn bolt) just looked like a better place to start. After all, I don't *need* to feed from stripper clips - I've got my SKSs and Mk4No1 and Mk4No1* for that.
:)
The FR-7s were built on '95 actions Military Gun Supply also had a Spanish M95 in a sporterized stock for sale - $160 or so, IIRC. It was also chambered in 7x57, one of my favorite calibers. I just couldn't afford to bring home both the M98 and the M95 (especially since I'm still looking for another Enfield Mk4No1).

Having said all of this - if I could find a decent Ishie 308, I'd prefer it over the Mauser action. I just find myself really getting into the Lee Enfield bolt system....

SMLE
September 12, 2004, 08:57 PM
I just find myself really getting into the Lee Enfield bolt system.... You have contracted "Enfielditis" an totally uncurable disease. The only known treatment is to buy a new Enfield on a regular basis. :neener:

rbernie
September 12, 2004, 09:38 PM
You have contracted "Enfielditis" an totally uncurable disease. The only known treatment is to buy a new Enfield on a regular basis. Problem is that I want to sporterize 'em, and so far I've not had the heart to do so on the one's that I find - they're too nice to chop up. The two that I have bought so far were both already chopped, so I don't feel too badly about that.

My Mk4No1 came with a Fajen Monte Carlo stock and had the stock barrel cut down to 25" (crown to breechface) and a Lyman front sight silver-soldered on. It has proven to be QUITE a shooter, and is what got me hooked on Enfields. I just picked up the Mark4No1* last week - it's a Golden State Arms 'Sante Fe Mountaineer' sporter. It needs a little TLC, but for $125 I can afford to drop a little into getting it back in shape. I may scope it, just to play around. Dunno yet.

Anyway, you get the point. I like the action, but want something other than 303RR. Quite honestly, a 20" 6.5x55 sporter sounds just like what I need to fill out the safe...

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