Saiga mags ????


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TallPine
September 13, 2004, 07:02 PM
Anyone know if large capacity (> 10 rounds) magazines are or will become available for the EAA Saiga Kalishnikov rifle?

7.62*39

thanks,
tallpine

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Preacherman
September 13, 2004, 07:50 PM
They're available overseas, so I would assume that EAA (or some other enterprising outfit) will import them.

Benjamin
September 13, 2004, 10:30 PM
In 7.62x39 it's an AK mag with a built up front lip.

The alternative is to put a feed ramp into your saiga rifle.

Harry Tuttle
September 13, 2004, 11:51 PM
the saigas and veprs are exempt from the import law against unsporting configurations due to their unique low capacity magazines

making full cap mags available might make them unsporting

WhoKnowsWho
September 14, 2004, 12:02 AM
Almost forgot about those Saiga rifles... might have to pick one up once those mags are available.

Wasn't there some bad comments about the .308 version though?

dance varmint
September 14, 2004, 12:06 AM
Nothing wrong with trimming the big fat follower to allow for about 15 rounds, hypothetically, just past this midnight, correct? A law-abiding gentleman just might dremel one of those followers and function check it before doing the others.

TallPine
September 14, 2004, 11:18 AM
The alternative is to put a feed ramp into your saiga rifle.

The other alternative is to build up the front lip of an AK mag. This works if you can find an easy way to do it, but it's not easy welding sheet metal. Of course, I didn't try this until yesterday, 09-13-04 ;)

It just seemed to me like some company would jump in and start making larger mags for the seemingly popular Saiga.

Or maybe invent an easy lip attachment for regular AK mags ....?

armoredman
September 14, 2004, 11:20 AM
EAA told me that paperwork to import higher capacity mags for all calibers of Saiga rifles is sitting on ATFEs' desk, and they should be bringing them in in 30-60 days. There you go....she didn't know the round count on capacity, though.....

Shane333
September 14, 2004, 03:30 PM
I just hope they don't ask for over $20 a mag. Otherwise I'll just do the conversion and use cheap bakelite or even bulgy mags.

TallPine
September 14, 2004, 04:29 PM
Ok, varmit ... how much can one trim off of the 10 rd mag followers?

I pulled mine apart and the follower "skirt" is about 2" long.

Marcus
September 15, 2004, 12:45 AM
Thanks for the idea guys! I trimmed the bottom of the followers 1" toward the rear and 7/8" toward the front. I took about 3/8" from the top of the odd mag base "tower" (spring guide?). It yields 13rds.,not exactly a 30 rounder but still Saiga hi caps and for FREE! Cycling the action by hand they feed like factory. I`m gonna try a little more tweaking and see if I can get 15rds. out of them yet. Marcus

Marcus
September 15, 2004, 12:53 AM
Thanks for the idea guys! I trimmed the bottom of the followers 1" toward the rear and 7/8" toward the front. I took about 3/8" from the top of the odd mag base "tower" (spring guide?). It yields 13rds.,not exactly a 30 rounder but still Saiga hi caps and for FREE! Cycling the action by hand they feed like factory. I`m gonna try a little more tweaking and see if I can get 15rds. out of them yet. Marcus

Black92LX
September 15, 2004, 01:13 AM
i believe to keep them compliant with the sporting law. You need to add 5 US parts even if you are just using a 10+ round mag. i am not positive on this but i am pretty sure.

JA
September 15, 2004, 03:10 AM
Black92LX is correct.
The below is still law and the BATFE ruling is still in effect so putting any magazine that holds more than 10rds in a rifle that has more than 10 imported parts is a crime.

US Code Title 18,Chapter 44,Section 922,Paragraph (r)

It shall be unlawful for any person to assemble from imported parts any semiautomatic rifle or any shotgun which is identical to any rifle or shotgun prohibited from importation under section 925(d)(3) of this chapter as not being particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes.


http://www.atf.gov/firearms/assault/treasrelease.htm

Master Blaster
September 15, 2004, 01:36 PM
In 1989, the "sporting purposes" provision led ATF to ban the importation of several semiautomatic versions of assault weapons possessing military features such as bayonet mounts, pistol grips, night sights and grenade launchers. After the 1989 prohibition, certain semiautomatic assault rifles that had failed the sporting purposes test were modified to remove all military features except the ability to accept a large capacity military magazine (LCMM) that holds more than 10 rounds. The LCMM rifles are models based on AK-47, FN-FAL, HK 91 and 93, Uzi and SIG SG550 military assault rifles.

The Saiga does not have one of the evil features that makes it not sporting per the ATF letter quoted above. If the ability to accept a high cap mag applied, the SAIGA could not be imported at all, so this does not apply to the SAIGA or you could not buy one, since it can accept a high cap mag that is made and sold in europe.

I'm sure EAA will have the high caps soon.

TallPine
September 15, 2004, 01:57 PM
Well, anyway ... I compared the follower in a Saiga mag to the follower in a 30 rd AK mag, and the "skirts" are just about the same length. So it seems that skirt length is needed to accomodate the spring when compressed.

Except, the 30 rd mag spring is a lot longer (of course) so you would think that the skirt would be longer in the 30 rd mag than the 10 rd mag.

I dunno ... maybe you could cut off a little, but it hardly seems worth the effort for 1 - 3 rounds ...

MAKOwner
September 15, 2004, 10:48 PM
The Saiga does not have one of the evil features that makes it not sporting per the ATF letter quoted above. If the ability to accept a high cap mag applied, the SAIGA could not be imported at all, so this does not apply to the SAIGA or you could not buy one, since it can accept a high cap mag that is made and sold in europe.

I'm sure EAA will have the high caps soon.

But the Saiga highcap mags are no where to be had on the US market. If they were the Saiga would not be importable period, as the ability to accept a highcap mag (that apparently is readily available) is all that's needed to bar import...

I really don't think EAA will be offering highcaps, and if someone else brings them in and makes them available the ATF may put their jackboot down on future Saiga imports, at least without US parts games...

I am wondering what size shotgun mag is considered a "large capacity ammunition device" as well, I'm hoping we can at least get 8 rnd shotgun mags for the Saiga 12, a few of those are in circulation as old LEO mags...

nipprdog
September 15, 2004, 11:18 PM
But the Saiga highcap mags are no where to be had on the US market. If they were the Saiga would not be importable period, as the ability to accept a highcap mag (that apparently is readily available) is all that's needed to bar import...

I really don't think EAA will be offering highcaps, and if someone else brings them in and makes them available the ATF may put their jackboot down on future Saiga imports, at least without US parts games...

I am wondering what size shotgun mag is considered a "large capacity ammunition device" as well, I'm hoping we can at least get 8 rnd shotgun mags for the Saiga 12, a few of those are in circulation as old LEO mags...[

I emailed them this q

Hello, will there be any higher capacity mags for saiga rifles/shotguns as a result of the AWB expiring? thanks

got this response

rifles yes, shotguns no

;)

Marcus
September 15, 2004, 11:20 PM
After reading a lot of discussion on this subject and the pertinent laws I`ve come to the personal conclusion that while the Saiga might not be legal for import with hi caps that is not the same thing as it being legal to use hi caps once they`re here. We`re not trying to import them,that`s already been done. At any rate it would be pretty silly for my CETME to be perfectly legal with 20 and 30rd. mags but the Saiga to be illegal with 13rds.... Marcus

Black92LX
September 15, 2004, 11:49 PM
i am pretty sure your cetme is perfectly legal because the 5 US parts have been added by Century arms. The same thing goes with the Hi-Cap WASR-10's.

EAA does not add any US made parts. that's where the difference lies, if i understand the law corectly

ckyllo
September 16, 2004, 09:11 AM
you need to keep in mind the '98 eo signed by Clinton. that eo banned the importation of any firearm that can take a large cap mag. the only way around it is to follow the '89 eo and US part requirement than you can also put all the other fearures on it too.

Shane333
September 16, 2004, 02:52 PM
Simple solution: EAA just needs to import the mag tubes and springs. I'll add the floorplate and follower. All legal and I can have my mags.

JA
September 16, 2004, 09:09 PM
The 1998 import ban was not a executive order by President Clinton or the 1989 import ban a executive order by President Bush. Both were rulings by the Treasury Secretary after studies were done. The studies were done becasue of letters from both presidents sent to the Treasury Secretary. They were not executive orders but plain letters sent to the Treasury Secretary urging studies be done and a ruling made.
Check here and you will see there were no executive orders issued concerning either ban.
http://www.archives.gov/federal_register/executive_orders/disposition_tables.html

nipprdog
September 16, 2004, 11:37 PM
Simple solution: EAA just needs to import the mag tubes and springs. I'll add the floorplate and follower. All legal and I can have my mags.
simpler solution, read my previous post.:D

igor
September 17, 2004, 07:56 PM
The proprietary Saiga mags tend to get expensive... mine came with two 30-rounders I sold for 30€ apiece :p, then got some used Sako waffle mags from the FDF depot shop for 8€ apiece.

Converting the Saiga for the standard mags took all of five minutes for the 'smith... he welded a blop of metal into the receiver and dremeled it into a kind of a feed ramp, then filed a wee bit off the mag catch until the mag would lock in. Ugly but it works, every bit as the boomstick as a whole... ;)

Why waste your good money on proprietary Saiga mags?

Bullet
September 18, 2004, 03:54 AM
Try this link -

http://www.trapperindustries.com/gunparts/page2.html

BTR
September 19, 2004, 10:57 AM
Is it legal to order one or two of those from england?

JA
September 19, 2004, 11:48 AM
http://www.access.gpo.gov/nara/cfr/waisidx_02/27cfr47_02.html
If you import more than $100 worth you need to file a form 6 with the BATFE.

13A
November 14, 2004, 03:31 PM
Stumbled on this thread because of a search.

Does it strike anyone how bizarre it is that the best source (right now) for normal capacity magazines for the Saiga is the UK? The UK!! What is wrong with this picture?

Black92LX
November 14, 2004, 06:33 PM
EAA has the 30 rounders on their website now.

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