Now that AWB is gone, will there be any reluctance by manufacturers....


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Redlg155
September 14, 2004, 11:08 AM
I was wondering...will manufacturers express any reluctance in producing or equipping their weapons with "pre ban" accessories and configurations?

AR manufacturers...will they start selling models with with bayo lugs, flash supressors and collapsible stocks?

Handgun Manufacturers...will they start manufacturing and supplying "normal" capacity magazines with their weapons?

Or will we see some reluctance before full scale production is started?

I suspect that we will see a bit of reluctance by manufacturers for a couple of months. In the handgun market I'd venture to say they will exhaust their supply of 10rd and under magazines before producing new "normal" capacity. That would give them sufficient time to make sure no new laws would be passed before making changes to their production line. I don't anticipate that Ruger will offer any "normal" capacity.

As for ARs, I'd think Bushmaster, Rock River, Armalite and others would start selling previously considered pre ban models, since they already had these items in production. The only holdback I would see would be Colt.


Good Shooting
Red

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Justin
September 14, 2004, 11:37 AM
No official word, but I doubt Ruger will produce standard cap mags for their pistols and rifles. And don't look to pick up a factory folding stock for your Mini14 any time soon.

But that's because Ruger sucks.

Every other manufacturer sounds like they're ready to ship stuff starting today.


Actually, Ruger will probably resist making the new mags until they start to get stomped into a mudhole by everyone buying firearms from their competitors.

Harry Tuttle
September 14, 2004, 11:57 AM
Removing the lug from the AR15 front sight base forging
and touching up the grind mark takes manufacturing time

it can also be used as a weapon light attachment point

Threaded barrels are simpler than pin and soldered barrel ends

manufacturing a 10 round mag that past BATF scrutiny was an expense that goes away

Cheap ARs will prolly come with USA 30 rounders

ABC & RR will prolly ship with teflon labelle 30 rounders

marley
September 14, 2004, 03:11 PM
They can send all of the 10 rd mags to NY ,cali,, NJ, and other states that have a 10 rd max. I think ruger won't last to long if they don't sell full caps. Patrick

Nathanael_Greene
September 14, 2004, 03:23 PM
Handgun Manufacturers...will they start manufacturing and supplying "normal" capacity magazines with their weapons?

Taurus is already supplying hi-caps; they're even making it retroactive, sending a free hi-cap to anyone who's bought one of their semi-autos recently.

jason10mm
September 14, 2004, 03:37 PM
Remember, most >10 capacity pistols are made by foreign firms whose primary market is areas that are not affected by the ban.

Walther, H&K, Berretta, Glock, Sig, Taurus, the XD, FN, CZ, TZ, Para-ordnance, and Styer are all foreign companies that could sell standard cap mags to the rest of the world except us (and our military and LEOs got the good stuff as well). So really, ban era mags are probably a MINORITY of sales, so no re-tooling necessary for any one except Hi-point and Ruger, both of whom probably won't make them anyway.

The american mag companies like Western and USA mags feel me with fear! Isn't MecGar based in Europe?

Kharn
September 14, 2004, 03:50 PM
Colt has stated that they will not return the evil features to their civilian line of firearms, and that law enforcement models are still intended only for law enforcement and military (6 month wait to get an LEO one, as police and .mil buy them as fast as they come off the line).

Kharn

Fly320s
September 14, 2004, 07:06 PM
...will manufacturers express any reluctance in producing or equipping their weapons with "pre ban" accessories and configurations?
See for yourself:
www.bushmaster.com

Dave Markowitz
September 14, 2004, 10:16 PM
Colt will not be selling any AR-15s with evil features to Joe Citizen, according to the guys at Surplus City. A poster on AR15.com reported being told the same thing by an industry insider.

:cuss:

WhoKnowsWho
September 14, 2004, 10:23 PM
Colt will not be selling any AR-15s with evil features to Joe Citizen, according to the guys at Surplus City.

Almost sounds like a S&W type position back in the day... it's not like the LEO markings will prevent sales after they deliver to distributors... like Wildyouwantacoltalaska...

Well, Para Ordnance isn't wasting any time, buy a high cap .45, get two free mags. http://www.paraord.com/pages/coupon.jpg

Wish they were doing that with the 9mm model too. In their e-mail response, they said I could buy mags from the Para Shop or contact a dealer.

PMDW
September 14, 2004, 10:54 PM
Colt = on the anti-gun manufacturers/dealers list, now. Terrible shame, I wanted a colt lower for my AR project. Oh well.

TechBrute
September 14, 2004, 11:07 PM
Colt ain't all that. It amuses me to see a company shoot itself in the foot by pandering to people that would just as soon see it go under. Who are they trying to please here?

Sven
September 14, 2004, 11:44 PM
Colt is trying to please... their largest customers?

kwelz
September 15, 2004, 12:15 AM
The way I understand it a lot of companies were sitting there watching the clock to turn over so they could turn on the machines and not have to stamp LE only on their guns/Mags.

38SnubFan
September 15, 2004, 12:26 AM
I don't know how true this is, but I was told that Smith & Wesson has signed a couple of "truces" with the anti-gunners in our government.

If this is true, you could certainly add them to the list as well.

PMDW
September 15, 2004, 12:29 AM
Yes, I believe they engaged in a deal with the Clinton administraton, but if I am not mistaken, they were bought out soon after. If this is true, and they are under new management, they are not eilgible for the list.

TechBrute
September 15, 2004, 09:20 AM
Colt is trying to please... their largest customers? Agreed that their biggest customer is probably mil or LEO, but how does denying evil features to their civilian customer base (which would probably be bigger if their company was run better) please their biggest customers? Did the LEOs tell Colt that if they let civvies have flash suppressors and lugs then the departments would stop buying from them?

IMHO, this is another retarded attempt by Colt to fly under the radar of the anti-gunners. Yeah, that'll happen.

halvey
September 15, 2004, 09:42 AM
What I found interesting discussing the AWB with a non-gun, but not anti-gun coworker.

He asked why anyone needs "military" weapons. I asked about the 1911 and Beretta 92. I said we shouldn't have them right?

sigman69
September 15, 2004, 10:04 AM
if what you said is true about Colt screw em...we have rock river, bushmaster and armalite....they make just as good of products and if not better AR's!!!!!!!!

halvey
September 15, 2004, 10:11 AM
Colt will not be selling any AR-15s with evil features to Joe Citizen, according to the guys at Surplus City. A poster on AR15.com reported being told the same thing by an industry insider. I'm not saying this isn't true, but it sure sounds like the "Colt doesn't sell to the public" or "Colt is out of business" things I've been hearing for years.

armoredman
September 15, 2004, 10:22 AM
Brad at EAA said they will continue shipping the Witness pistols with 10 round mags so they "don't have to recall them" if a new AWB is passed. I thinkmore likely they have a ton of the dang things, and no one overseas is going to buy them! They will begin importing hicaps in 30-60 days, so anyone with a Witness 10mm, your 15 round mags will be here soon.

Skunkabilly
September 15, 2004, 11:52 AM
What's Colt's deal?!?! :confused:

Anyone know where Rock River Arms stand?

Justin
September 15, 2004, 01:17 PM
Skunky-

RRA considers you and I to be trustworthy enough to have a flash hider and bayo lug.

TechBrute
September 15, 2004, 01:21 PM
Not just that, they've been selling uppers configured that way this whole time, unrestricted. They trusted you to obey the law and not put them on your "post-ban" lowers.

Skunkabilly
September 15, 2004, 01:26 PM
THat's kind of neat. :D :) (Anyone in Arizona want an RRA?)

"Just ask the DEA." :rolleyes:

bfieldburt
September 15, 2004, 11:06 PM
Back to WhoKnowsWho's and Nathanael_Greene's comments yesterday....

NEVER

NEVER

NEVER

EVER

say "hi-capacity" magazine again! They are "full" or "standard" capacity magazines. Half the reason we got into this mess in the first place is that the antis fooled even us into calling our semis "assault weapons". Other than that, nice comments. "hi-cap"...grrrrrrrrrrrrr!

note: you think those old English teachers of yours were strict; they weren't armed like us. :)

stevelyn
September 16, 2004, 08:11 AM
P!$$ on Colt. They've been nothing more than a privately owned govt. arsenal for the last ten years or so. Their products are overpriced and overrated. Looks like my AR purchase will be either a Bushmasters or RRA product.

SunBear
September 16, 2004, 09:53 AM
As it has throughout history, the marketplace will triumph. Those who meet the needs of the consumer will prosper. If Colt doesn't want your money, there are others who can meet your needs (as mentioned above).

I'm holding out for the new H&KM4, though I believe their improved gas system can be retro-fitted to existing ARs. :D

Fear of inanimate objects is a mental illness. :neener: :neener:

Zedicus
September 16, 2004, 12:49 PM
Fear of inanimate objects is a mental illness.
Amen!:D

ROTTO
September 16, 2004, 09:05 PM
I read on the Ruger Forum that someone talked to a company spokesperson who said they will begin producing standard capacity mags for the P-series but only the 5 rounders for the minis

MatthewVanitas
September 17, 2004, 03:32 AM
Mr Sunbear: if you get tired of waiting for HK to make their gas-piston ARs for the public, check out the gas-piston retrofits currently offered by Kurt's Kustom Firearms (of M17S fame):

Link to Kurt's Kustom Firearms (http://www.kurtskustomfirearms.citymax.com/page/page/967766.htm)

http://www.kurtskustomfirearms.citymax.com/i/Misc/M9M4Exposed.jpg

Not much info on the site currently, but the topic was widely discussed on his discussion board, and running a search on THR should net some more info. Unsure as to how the final verdict ended up, but I imagine he's probably distracted with "evil-izing" ARs in these latter, post-post-ban days.

-MV

WhoKnowsWho
September 17, 2004, 04:15 AM
Back to WhoKnowsWho's and Nathanael_Greene's comments yesterday....

I said hi-cap .45 (pistol) since that is essentially what they are. They are not a normal 7/8 round 1911, they are high capacity 1911s. I didn't say anything about the mags...

MP5
September 17, 2004, 07:14 AM
www.smithandwesson.com "2 high capacity magazines at no cost" in big letters on their homepage.

Jeff Timm
September 17, 2004, 08:59 AM
The irascable Dean SPEIR of The Gun Zone has posted various statements from Manufacturers.

http://www.thegunzone.com/rkba/rkba-20faq.html

I will wait for official pronouncements before I judge any source.

Geoff
Who misspelled SPEIR once in an email, he'll never forgive me. :D

Jon Coppenbarger
September 17, 2004, 10:24 AM
I have been speaking to rock river several times a day this week and they flat have told me they do not stock or will sell


any uppers that are not pre-ban type

In other words they do not sell rifles without the flash hider or bayonet lugs unless it is the type like national match or varmits.

That is a company that is stand up and I would back. Unlike colt or ruger

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